EMT Training as undergrad

[BeastfromthEast]

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Hey Ive signed up for EMT training at my local community college. There are 4 classes I have to take for I can be certified to be an EMT and actually volunteer/work in ambulances, etc. Hopefully I can finish all my training by the end of summer 2011 and start working as an emt. Has anyone had any experience and a student emt? Would you say it's a good idea? (I think it would be a good volunteer/clinical experince)

 

[apumic]

Hey Ive signed up for EMT training at my local community college. There are 4 classes I have to take for I can be certified to be an EMT and actually volunteer/work in ambulances, etc. Hopefully I can finish all my training by the end of summer 2011 and start working as an emt. Has anyone had any experience and a student emt? Would you say it's a good idea? (I think it would be a good volunteer/clinical experince)

It's good experience but the EMT-B cert is mostly helpful as a premed to get a job at a hospital. The most important thing is to actually use it. Having the cert is useless unless you get a job w it.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Gotta agree with apumic, dont get an EMT license if its just gonna sit there in your wallet. It will be a major waste if you dont use it. As for your other question I have loads of experience as an EMT/Student. Im full time at school, I work as a firefighter/EMT for a fire dept and i work as a tech in an ER( got the job cause of EMT cert and experience).

With the same base training, they are two completely different worlds. In an ambulance it is just you and the medic ( or you and another EMT if it is just a BLS rig). In the hospital it is you, possibly other techs, a lot of nurses, and a few docs. I will say that i am technically able to do more at the hospital( i e draw blood, do EKG's) i feel like i do a lot more on an ambulance because there is only the two of you.

Working at the hospital is nice because i know what to expect for the most part( i need to restock these things, well probably have x many pts but ill be up the whole time). At the fire dept( after were done with our training) we basically just sit around waiting for calls. Sometimes it can be very busy and you get no sleep, but other times you do absolutely nothing all day. ( im actually at the Fire Dept working right now, i just dont sleep much anyways😀).

Now because of school i can only work nights and weekends. Im actually going from one ER tech job to another because my old ones shift was so horrible (7p-7a). the new hospital will be 3p-1a. The most important thing you need to remember is if you are going to work and go to school DONT OVERLOAD YOURSELF! I did this last semester and deeply regret it( dont try and go to school full time while working 1 full time job and 1 part time job while having to commute an hour to each place from your not-so-conveniently-placed house).

This post was waaaaaaay longer than i expected. Let me know if you have any more questions though.

 

[BeastfromthEast]

Well, Im definitely planning on getting a part time job or volunteer. Yeah, I agree that it would be pretty pointless not to get an emt job.

 

[BeastfromthEast]

^^^oh yeah and thanks for your response.it was very helpful. Do you think it's possible to work shorter shifts or maybe only once a week? I'm not sure if I could handle 3-1am shifts especially when I need to study.

 

[rHinO1]

^^^oh yeah and thanks for your response.it was very helpful. Do you think it's possible to work shorter shifts or maybe only once a week? I'm not sure if I could handle 3-1am shifts especially when I need to study.

EMT jobs vary widely around the country. For example, where I live we have no volunteer ambulances and working anything less than 36 hours a week isn't possible until after at least 6 months full time experience. Make sure you find out what types of hours/jobs are available in your area.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Do it because you enjoy it, not because you want it on your application. With the hours you will put into this, there are other things that would benefit you more on an application.

 

[jc14]

^^^oh yeah and thanks for your response.it was very helpful. Do you think it's possible to work shorter shifts or maybe only once a week? I'm not sure if I could handle 3-1am shifts especially when I need to study.

While it obviously depends on the system where you live, often private ambulance services offer pretty flexible hours. The one I work for pretty much lets you pick what days you want and what hours (within reason and their needs). I do a lot of weekends, with some shifts during the week. We do mostly run of the mill transports (dr's appts, for example) with some ER runs intermingled. I end up having quite a bit of time to study. I also volunteer at my local FD, where I get to run my fill of emergency calls as an EMT on the engine or rescue, making up for the usual boring nature of the paid job.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Do it because you enjoy it, not because you want it on your application. With the hours you will put into this, there are other things that would benefit you more on an application.

This.


To answer your question OP, the 3-1 shift i have is at the new hospital i work at. Im busy there the whole shift and cant study. You can find many different shift hours at hospitals for positions. Working on an ambulance might have more strict schedules though. For instance at the FD i work at shifts are either 12 hrs or 24 hrs in length. As far as shift length, i doubt you will find anything less than 8-10 hrs in length( at a hospital or on an ambulance). I do have the benifit of signing up for shifts though. This comes in handy when i know all my test dates and can schedule around them.

I had a short ( week or two) stint at a private ambulance company. They are where you probably would have more of a variety of shifts available, but you might not see as much. The benifit of working on an ambulance is that if you dont have any calls ( and are not busy) you pretty much have all the time to yourself to study.

 

[jc14]

They are where you probably would have more of a variety of shifts available, but you might not see as much. The benifit of working on an ambulance is that if you dont have any calls ( and are not busy) you pretty much have all the time to yourself to study.

agreed!

 

[Dwindlin]

Do it because you enjoy it, not because you want it on your application. With the hours you will put into this, there are other things that would benefit you more on an application.

Just want to restate this. Many adcoms care very little that you were an EMT or Medic, personally I doubt it carries any more weight than something like Habitat for Humanity. Speaking from my own experience of the 6 interviews I had for school only one even mentioned it and asked about it.

 

[duress]

I did several months with a volunteer in-town EMS, and then took the course after I was sure I wanted the benefits of the training. Are you sure this is what you want to do? I absolutely hated the inanity of the course, overall, and I don't think I would have continued it to the end if I didn't have my weekly shift to push me. You know you can ask to do ride-alongs beforehand to make sure, right? You may need a CPR certification, but that's a 1 day course, rather than 4 classes spread out over many months.

However, I really question the SDN sentiment I keep getting that that EMS is completely worthless to your application, but the typical volunteering experience in the ER is not. Or maybe I question the ADCOMs. It just doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[agentorange87]

Hey,


So I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on this one.

I was fortunate enough to go to undergrad at a school which had a student run campus EMS system and it had a huge impact on my decision to apply to medical school. You'll learn a lot about basic medicine which will help you later on, and the experience itself (if it was insightful and a reason for you to apply to med school) will definitely help you out come interview time.

However, I preface this with a caution: Don't do this as a means to an end. Do it because you want to and because you are getting something out of it, do it because it is adding something to your education that you will look back on favorably.

I'm not sure exactly what you're current situation is right now academic wise, but if you are at a school which does not have an EMS system right now, you could look into starting one yourself. There is an organization that would love to help you (and any others reading this who are interested) in starting a campus EMS system at an undergraduate institution, http://www.ncemsf.org/

Any other questions about EMS or whatev feel free to PM me, I did a total of 3 years of volunteer EMS service and will be going to medical school in the fall.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Hey,


So I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on this one.

I was fortunate enough to go to undergrad at a school which had a student run campus EMS system and it had a huge impact on my decision to apply to medical school. You'll learn a lot about basic medicine which will help you later on, and the experience itself (if it was insightful and a reason for you to apply to med school) will definitely help you out come interview time.

However, I preface this with a caution: Don't do this as a means to an end. Do it because you want to and because you are getting something out of it, do it because it is adding something to your education that you will look back on favorably.

I'm not sure exactly what you're current situation is right now academic wise, but if you are at a school which does not have an EMS system right now, you could look into starting one yourself. There is an organization that would love to help you (and any others reading this who are interested) in starting a campus EMS system at an undergraduate institution, http://www.ncemsf.org/

Any other questions about EMS or whatev feel free to PM me, I did a total of 3 years of volunteer EMS service and will be going to medical school in the fall.

You know i had actually looked into starting one on my campus, I just was unsure about the legality behind it. If you dont mind me asking, have you had any legal problems establishing the program or running it?

 

[Siggy]

However, I really question the SDN sentiment I keep getting that that EMS is completely worthless to your application, but the typical volunteering experience in the ER is not. Or maybe I question the ADCOMs. It just doesn't make much sense.

It's not that it's completely worthless. It's that it isn't anything special or really amazing. The problem is that the sentiment of a lot of EMT premeds is that they are somehow doing something special or profound and that EMT=go to the front of the line. Another thing that occurs with too frightening of frequency is that they try to over sell just how hard and deep EMT training actually is. The unfortunate reality is that EMT training really isn't very far past an advanced first aid course, especially under the old 110 hour NHTSA curriculum. There really isn't that much in the course besides a "see this, do that, see this, do that" kind of rigid training. Unfortunately, this is also what makes EMS resistant to evidence based medicine.

 

[coolstine]

The unfortunate reality is that EMT training really isn't very far past an advanced first aid course, especially under the old 110 hour NHTSA curriculum. There really isn't that much in the course besides a "see this, do that, see this, do that" kind of rigid training. Unfortunately, this is also what makes EMS resistant to evidence based medicine.

IMO, this is probably the case for 99 percent of EMT-Basic and a majority of Intermediate courses, but not so for paramedicine. For what its worth, I had the opportunity to attend Paramedic school in a program where clinical and critical decision making was emphasized, and cookbook algorithmic medicine was frowned upon. The 1200 hours or so involved in medic school are obviously nowhere near the time put into a MD education, but I feel like it has provided me with an invaluable base to begin training to become an MD. From my experiences, I feel like most people outside of the EMS community (likely including ADCOMs) do not have a good distinction in the differences of prehospital providers' training and what they do.

And I don't think that being an EMT or Medic should put you to the front of the line, but it definitely gives you a good appreciation for whether medicine is right for you and exposure to exactly what you are getting yourself into with medical school. I think being totally committed to the MD path for the right reasons is more important than what you have specifically done beforehand.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

Look into job opportunities in your state because I know where I'm from there are only full time jobs for EMTs which would be difficult if you're still going to be taking classes.

 

[RevivedPreMed]

You know i had actually looked into starting one on my campus, I just was unsure about the legality behind it. If you dont mind me asking, have you had any legal problems establishing the program or running it?

I started this on my campus too. Message me if you have questions.

 

[washburn]

I am an EMT, and I think that it really helped me get into med school. I only worked over the summer, so it never got in the way of class. I agree with the people saying its worthless if you don't get a job/volunteer, but it doesn't have to be year round to be meaningful.

I also agree with what people have said that you can't make it out to be more than it is and that the class is not at all difficult, but it helps in other ways. I think it really helped me developing skills in talking to sick patients, which no matter how good your social skills are is something to develop. I talked about EMT patient experiences all the time on interviews, pretty much one of my two major talking points. I think it helped

 

[BeastfromthEast]

hmm, so i guess ill try working full time during the summers. but is it possible to work only weekends during the school year in a non-private ambulance?

 

[jc14]

hmm, so i guess ill try working full time during the summers. but is it possible to work only weekends during the school year in a non-private ambulance?

I'm sure it is possible. Our local system does it one a "first come, first serve" page out basis. If they need someone to work a shift, whether it is in advance due to vacation or something, or if it is the day of (in the case of illness), they send out a text to all of the part-timers.

It all depends on how your local system does it. I'd try to talk to someone who works for them and see what they say. The way things are where I live, I wouldn't be able to count on it for steady income.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

I'm sure it is possible. Our local system does it one a "first come, first serve" page out basis. If they need someone to work a shift, whether it is in advance due to vacation or something, or if it is the day of (in the case of illness), they send out a text to all of the part-timers.

It all depends on how your local system does it. I'd try to talk to someone who works for them and see what they say. The way things are where I live, I wouldn't be able to count on it for steady income.

+1

At the fire dept, we do it the same way. Im like quick draw mcgraw with my iphone so i usually get any of the call back shifts i can work. But other than that I am only able to physically sign up for a maximum of (4) 12 hr shifts. I can do anywhere from 1-4 a month. So its definitely managable for nights and weekends.

 

[azide10]

Does anyone know if the EMT classes count in the sGPA? I did a search and found a few that said it did but most seemed to ignore the sGPA aspect when saying that it counts towards GPA.

I'm becoming an EMT for my local fire dept which heavily needs them. As others have said it is good volunteer experience and it can be a first experience working with patients in a medical aspect, making it good clinical experience as well. It is a volunteer position that will greatly help my community (I've witnessed first hand the effect of the lack of available EMT's) and will introduce me to basic emergency skills which can be a great thing to have. I can as well study during the downtime. To me that beats out many volunteer positions in which I would be counting down the time to leave because me standing around waiting for meaningless tasks is essentially useless.

Do what you want with your volunteer time. I know it won't make or break my application but it is something that will be useful within my community.

 

[jc14]

Does anyone know if the EMT classes count in the sGPA? I did a search and found a few that said it did but most seemed to ignore the sGPA aspect when saying that it counts towards GPA.

...I don't really see why it would count into that. But hey, I could be wrong.

Mine didn't even count for credit, as it was done through the Continuing Studies department at my university. (Which sucks.) I wasn't taking it for that reason, so it didn't really bother me.

 

[BenUstudent]

Does anyone know if the EMT classes count in the sGPA? I did a search and found a few that said it did but most seemed to ignore the sGPA aspect when saying that it counts towards GPA.

No, it only counts as a cumulative GPA when you apply to med schools (MD and DO)
also refer to this thread for any other classes you are curious about 🙂
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

 

[duress]

It's not that it's completely worthless. It's that it isn't anything special or really amazing. The problem is that the sentiment of a lot of EMT premeds is that they are somehow doing something special or profound and that EMT=go to the front of the line. Another thing that occurs with too frightening of frequency is that they try to over sell just how hard and deep EMT training actually is. The unfortunate reality is that EMT training really isn't very far past an advanced first aid course, especially under the old 110 hour NHTSA curriculum. There really isn't that much in the course besides a "see this, do that, see this, do that" kind of rigid training. Unfortunately, this is also what makes EMS resistant to evidence based medicine.

I'm one of the EMTs who agrees with you that the training is nothing special and i strongly discourage anyone from rushing to get certified so they can say they were certified in their application. I don't particularly understand how the training itself is an issue in the limited scope of clinical opportunities premeds can participate in, unless you're talking about someone assuming EMT training gives them a leg-up in med school (which it clearly doesn't).

It's really only at the point where I read that working in EMS is not a good clinical experience or worse, that it adds nothing to your application, that I strongly question either the system or the SDN mentality.

 

[BeastfromthEast]

if i take emt classes during the school year but not in the college im attending (they dont offer ems classes), it wont count towards my GPA would it?😎

 

[agentorange87]

You know i had actually looked into starting one on my campus, I just was unsure about the legality behind it. If you dont mind me asking, have you had any legal problems establishing the program or running it?

Yes, the legal issues are something to look at, you'll need to find a provider on campus, preferably in the student health center, who you can use for their license.

The way that EMT's are allowed to 'practice medicine' without a license is that they are a legal 'extension' of an actual provider's lisence who signs off that they will be held responsible if anything goes wrong. We've had a PA on our campus be the Medical Director for our organization for the last 13 years we've been existence. If you have further questions about the legal issues, I'd suggest getting in contact with the organization I listed above, the National Collegiate EMS Foundation, they have been very helpful in getting new services started.

In response to people on SDN who say that undergrad EMS service is a "waste" and won't help you on your application, I respectfully think that's a load a crap. However, undergrad EMS, like I said before, should be done if you think it will help you evaluate if medicine is the right career choice for you. There's something to be said for the 'clinical exposure' that you get as an EMT and learning how to deal with high pressure situations. While certain other activites such as research and academics will 'look nice' on an application, in the long run, what do you think will help you out when you go on to med school? Of course to get into med school you have to be book smart, but to be a good physician you have to be a good people person too, and EMS teaches a lot to this aspect of healthcare.

 

[BenUstudent]

if i take emt classes during the school year but not in the college im attending (they dont offer ems classes), it wont count towards my GPA would it?😎

I believe it won't count towards your regular college GPA (yes, I know that stinks), but when you do apply to med schools they will count it, since they require you to submit transcripts from all college/universities that you have taken classes at.

 

[Siggy]

In response to people on SDN who say that undergrad EMS service is a "waste" and won't help you on your application, I respectfully think that's a load a crap. However, undergrad EMS, like I said before, should be done if you think it will help you evaluate if medicine is the right career choice for you. There's something to be said for the 'clinical exposure' that you get as an EMT and learning how to deal with high pressure situations. While certain other activites such as research and academics will 'look nice' on an application, in the long run, what do you think will help you out when you go on to med school? Of course to get into med school you have to be book smart, but to be a good physician you have to be a good people person too, and EMS teaches a lot to this aspect of healthcare.

The vast majority of medicine is not high pressure. Those things that "look nice" are worth a lot more than EMS experience and it doesn't matter how "good [of a] person" you are if you can't get in. Additionally, I fail to see how EMS, by itself, has anything to do with being a "good person." I met a lot of not so "good people" who were working in EMS. I would honestly love to see what your view of this post is after being in med school for even a single year.

 

[washburn]

The vast majority of medicine is not high pressure. Those things that "look nice" are worth a lot more than EMS experience and it doesn't matter how "good [of a] person" you are if you can't get in. Additionally, I fail to see how EMS, by itself, has anything to do with being a "good person." I met a lot of not so "good people" who were working in EMS. I would honestly love to see what your view of this post is after being in med school for even a single year.

He said good people person, not good person, ie social skills. Of course being in EMS doesn't make you a good person, but it helps teach how to talk with patients. Talking to a patient is a lot different than talking to your buddies.

 

[agentorange87]

The vast majority of medicine is not high pressure. Those things that "look nice" are worth a lot more than EMS experience and it doesn't matter how "good [of a] person" you are if you can't get in. Additionally, I fail to see how EMS, by itself, has anything to do with being a "good person." I met a lot of not so "good people" who were working in EMS. I would honestly love to see what your view of this post is after being in med school for even a single year.

Agreed, you should READ before responding lol.

I'm not saying that EMS is the holy grail of a premed, that's completely not true. I'm just saying that people shouldn't discount an EMS experience if its something there interested in but are hesitant because people on SDN seem to have a vendetta against it. What people care about on the adcoms is that you're doing things for the right reasons, and if you are, you can back that up in an interview. Personally, I loved my EMS experience and I'm sure that it helped out in my application, I got a killer letter or rec from my medical director.