End of MS1 - ugghhhhhhh

[pagemmapants]

Hehehe, we have a 2 year med school. 3rd and 4th year are BOTH playtime for us, and it's nice to know I've almost payed a full 1/2 of my "med school" dues (figuratively speaking; yes I do realized more dues will be paid in residency. Duh.)

August to May will suck (I finish on Fam Med probably out on the beach in Wilmington) but then after that? As tough or as easy as you want to make it. I love me my Duke curriculum.

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[MSKalltheway]

Hehehe, we have a 2 year med school. 3rd and 4th year are BOTH playtime for us, and it's nice to know I've almost payed a full 1/2 of my "med school" dues (figuratively speaking; yes I do realized more dues will be paid in residency. Duh.)

August to May will suck (I finish on Fam Med probably out on the beach in Wilmington) but then after that? As tough or as easy as you want to make it. I love me my Duke curriculum.

ENVIOUS!

Na its all good, I personally can't wait until next year (after a summer break of course!!!) I can never bring myself to actually complain, because if I do, my dad will tell me how it was in the "good ol' days", even for med students.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

definitely the nicest body, IMO.

No no, the one showing off underboob is the best. I think first year was worse as a whole. But right now I've just finished a week of cumulative finals in Micro, Path, Pharm, and Psych/Clinical Med, followed by a week of shelf exams in the same. Halfway through 5 weeks of 14-hour Step study days and if the exam were tomorrow I think I'd score my age. IM rotation begins exactly 4 days after my scheduled test date. Christ Almighty.

Anyway OP it'll be over soon. Just do me a favor and enjoy the hell out of your summer vacation.

 

[45408]

Seriously M1, M2, and most of all M4 are vacations.

yep, headed off to the beach as we speak.

 

[Long Dong]

yep, headed off to the beach as we speak.

You should be, only reason I'm not is because it's a little over cast right now.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

You should be, only reason I'm not is because it's a little over cast right now.

Yeah, only problem is there's not so much a beach in the center of the country. Must be nice.

 

[NEATOMD]

Dear MS1s;

You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

Love,
An MS2 with full year cumulative exams, boards, and then 3 days before I kick off MS3.

OK...I don't really feel sorry for you. You choose when to schedule your Step 1, and if you're gonna be reasonable, you ought to give yourself more than 3 days or your gonna start year 3 burned out. You realize that the accumulation of your entire first 2 years don't really amount to crap compared to every clerkship you do? Don't start out year 3 burned out or you'll be screwing yourself over royally.

My advice: Forget about that extra 2 points you're trying to squeeze out of step 1 and go into year 3 rested and recharged...

Heck, I don't know if you know this but, the word is that this years class is the last to even take Step one. Apparently, they're planning on doing away with it. Supposedly, it's going to be combined into step 2 and taken after 3rd year. Honestly, I prefer it the way it is. That's WAY too much stress relying on one exam.

 

[Miami_med]

I have never heard this ever.

 

[deleted50541]

Heck, I don't know if you know this but, the word is that this years class is the last to even take Step one. Apparently, they're planning on doing away with it. Supposedly, it's going to be combined into step 2 and taken after 3rd year. Honestly, I prefer it the way it is. That's WAY too much stress relying on one exam.

Where did you hear that?

 

[deleted77919]

I heard this as a rumor . . . but not from a credible source so I ignored it. The theory is the USMLE people are upset that the exam is used for ranking students when it is "supposed to be" just an exam for licensure purposes.

However, without a step I score how will residencies evaluate candidates? Or will the new combined step I an II be used (in which case you won't even know if you are competitve for a specialty until basically the moment the apps are due).

Edit: And there's no way such a major change would come out of thin air with less than a years notice.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Interesting, but I don't think anything's going to change by next year. From a dean's speech that we got a while ago, it sounds like a change in step 1 at some point will probably happen, but that some point could easily be 10 years from now.

 

[NEATOMD]

Got it straight from my dean of students last week.. It's not finalized, but he said it looks like it's headed in that direction. I don't know that this will be the last year...but he said it could be. I definitely think it's best the way it is (due to several of the reasons discussed above). He also said that they tried doing away with scores and going to a pass/fail only system on Step 1 a few years ago and it just about happened except the students didn't want it to change. Stupid gunners...

PS: It's not really out of thin air...it sounds like they've been discussing it for a while now.

 

[deleted128318]

I agree and I also wonder how many times CM has been "fooled"

CM: always look for the adams apple, buddy.

They're in bikinis. That would be pretty stealthy

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I heard this as a rumor . . . but not from a credible source so I ignored it. The theory is the USMLE people are upset that the exam is used for ranking students when it is "supposed to be" just an exam for licensure purposes.

However, without a step I score how will residencies evaluate candidates? Or will the new combined step I an II be used (in which case you won't even know if you are competitve for a specialty until basically the moment the apps are due).

Edit: And there's no way such a major change would come out of thin air with less than a years notice.

Ha. Tell the USMLE people that students are upset that we are being fleeced to the tune of $1k just to make sure we speak English.

Sorry, just registered for 2CS and I'm sort of bitter...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Ha. Tell the USMLE people that students are upset that we are being fleeced to the tune of $1k just to make sure we speak English.

Sorry, just registered for 2CS and I'm sort of bitter...

Yeah, I looked at a sheet for the stupid USMLE fees, and I'm already mad about that one even though it's ages away for me. And the nearest testing site to me is in Houston, which necessitates a plane ticket and a hotel room on top of the $1k fee.

 

[LJDHC05]

Me: is med school over yet?
Roomate: no, go study
Me: is med school over yet?
roomate: no, go study
Me: is med school over yet?
Roomate: if you dont shut up, it will be...

 

[SoCuteMD]

Got it straight from my dean of students last week.. It's not finalized, but he said it looks like it's headed in that direction. I don't know that this will be the last year...but he said it could be. I definitely think it's best the way it is (due to several of the reasons discussed above). He also said that they tried doing away with scores and going to a pass/fail only system on Step 1 a few years ago and it just about happened except the students didn't want it to change. Stupid gunners...

PS: It's not really out of thin air...it sounds like they've been discussing it for a while now.

Honestly, I seriously question this. The USMLE just instituted a $1k field trip masquerading as "Step 2 CS" for all people who wish to be licensed in the US. Are they now going to give up the $500 they earn from that same crowd for Step 1? Doubt it. Plus, if the pressure is off to get a "good" score, they can count on their sales of those NBME forms (at $45 a pop) going WAY WAY down. Not to mention that many schools will stop administering the CBSE (which probably costs at least $45) if they are only worried about their pass rate and not their board score averages.

Change in standardized testing comes about very slowly and deliberately unless there is a very powerful push to get it done. The best example I can think of is that one of the very very high-ups in the California education system essentially told ETS (the group that writes and administers the SAT) that the UC schools would no longer require the SAT if it wasn't changed drastically. Lo and behold - we got rid of analogies, made the math ever so slightly more difficult and added a writing section. They upped the price of taking the SAT to compensate for the fact that they no longer administered a writing subject test (which was a lot of income). Why did they do all this? Because the state of California proves ONE THIRD of ETS's yearly income.

In the end, money talks. The NBME is probably not going to eliminate Step 1 without a serious plan to get the money (and not just from the test, but also from all the supplemental materials) back.

 

[NEATOMD]

Honestly, I seriously question this. The USMLE just instituted a $1k field trip masquerading as "Step 2 CS" for all people who wish to be licensed in the US. Are they now going to give up the $500 they earn from that same crowd for Step 1? Doubt it. Plus, if the pressure is off to get a "good" score, they can count on their sales of those NBME forms (at $45 a pop) going WAY WAY down. Not to mention that many schools will stop administering the CBSE (which probably costs at least $45) if they are only worried about their pass rate and not their board score averages.

In the end, money talks. The NBME is probably not going to eliminate Step 1 without a serious plan to get the money (and not just from the test, but also from all the supplemental materials) back.

I'm not sure you understand...
They would definitely up the price on the newly revised test to compensate for the combination of the two and since they would be covering the same material from both exams in the newly combined exam, sales of the items you mentioned above wouldn't change significantly. Actually, sales of the supplemental materials would probably sky-rocket the first few years since the med students are more than likely going to freak out about the test change.

 

[SoCuteMD]

I'm not sure you understand...
They would definitely up the price on the newly revised test to compensate for the combination of the two and since they would be covering the same material from both exams in the newly combined exam, sales of the items you mentioned above wouldn't change significantly. Actually, sales of the supplemental materials would probably sky-rocket the first few years since the med students are more than likely going to freak out about the test change.

No, I do understand all that. However, you stated the basis of this change would be to eliminate the use of the USMLE by residency programs to rank students. In order to truly accomplish this, the test will have to be pass/fail. Based on the Step 1 and Step 2 first time pass rates at my school, I can tell you that very very very few people would stress out over the "new" combined test if it were pass/fail (seriously fewer than 3 people out of 200 per class).

If they kept the numerical scoring system but pushed the test until after 3rd year, it would simply force people to take it early in fourth year so that residency programs would look at them. Residency programs would begin requiring or "strongly recommending" that applicants take the Step 1/2 hybrid earlier in order to be ranked. This is already happening with Step 2 and certain residency programs. (I don't know if anyone officially requires it, but I do recall a PD who posts on SDN saying that he gave preference to those who had taken it and scored well, and encouraged applicants to take it in time to have their scores before ROLs were due.)

In summary:
True elimination of standardized test as comparison tool would require pass/fail, and surely sales of materials would plummet

Pushing the test 'til later would just make people take it earlier, sales remain the same, or perhaps a little lower since people tend to freak out less over STep 2.

 

[shantster]

No, I do understand all that. However, you stated the basis of this change would be to eliminate the use of the USMLE by residency programs to rank students. In order to truly accomplish this, the test will have to be pass/fail. Based on the Step 1 and Step 2 first time pass rates at my school, I can tell you that very very very few people would stress out over the "new" combined test if it were pass/fail (seriously fewer than 3 people out of 200 per class).

If they kept the numerical scoring system but pushed the test until after 3rd year, it would simply force people to take it early in fourth year so that residency programs would look at them. Residency programs would begin requiring or "strongly recommending" that applicants take the Step 1/2 hybrid earlier in order to be ranked. This is already happening with Step 2 and certain residency programs. (I don't know if anyone officially requires it, but I do recall a PD who posts on SDN saying that he gave preference to those who had taken it and scored well, and encouraged applicants to take it in time to have their scores before ROLs were due.)

In summary:
True elimination of standardized test as comparison tool would require pass/fail, and surely sales of materials would plummet

Pushing the test 'til later would just make people take it earlier, sales remain the same, or perhaps a little lower since people tend to freak out less over STep 2.

And if they keep the scoring the way it is to "rank" students, that would make third year much more of a hell with clinics and the boards.

 

[-Goose-]

When is this proposed to go down? Current MS1s poised to take the test in 2008?

I'd be all for it, but I wonder if this could be implemented by then...

 

[SoCuteMD]

When is this proposed to go down? Current MS1s poised to take the test in 2008?

I'd be all for it, but I wonder if this could be implemented by then...

It's definitely not happening in 2008 (if ever). Change in standardized testing takes time, and they've already published the fee schedule for the 2008 USMLE exams. While that may sound trivial, those are part of student budgets, grants, and loans, and can not be adjusted easily. The earliest would be 2009, I guess. I ran into the Provost the other day and asked him about it, he seemed skeptical that such a change would occur during his tenure.

 

[NEATOMD]

It's definitely not happening in 2008 (if ever). Change in standardized testing takes time, and they've already published the fee schedule for the 2008 USMLE exams. While that may sound trivial, those are part of student budgets, grants, and loans, and can not be adjusted easily. The earliest would be 2009, I guess. I ran into the Provost the other day and asked him about it, he seemed skeptical that such a change would occur during his tenure.

When reputable sources disagree, I'd say the best thing we can to do is agree that only time will tell.

By the way, the USMLE really isn't an organization that is able to make money as it is a just a set of exams sponsored by FSMB and NMBE, both of which are not-for-profit organizations. While this means they can make a profit, their goal is not to do such. In the end the decision about the exam will be directed by the will of those governing the medical schools and not USMLE, FSMB, or NMBE. The medical school's don't care profit wise where the exam falls.

 

[NEATOMD]

True elimination of standardized test as comparison tool would require pass/fail, and surely sales of materials would plummet

Pushing the test 'til later would just make people take it earlier, sales remain the same, or perhaps a little lower since people tend to freak out less over STep 2.

While these may be valid arguments against the change...you're arguing to the wrong person.

 

[da8s0859q]

Well, this was all thoroughly discouraging (and I've never been the puppy dog tail sort, either).

Signed,
An MS0, probably entering in '09

 

[barasch]

I'm finishing first year too. Even though I know the worst is yet to come, let me give a double-ugh for the end of MS1

off to study...