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Discussion in 'Dental' started by ddsoon, Mar 14, 2007.
What is the highest number of canals anyone hase seen so far in pre-doc clinics, not residency?
A buddy of mine in my class ('07) will finish with 12 cases under his belt. This is not accounting for the number of canals because for some ridiculous reason we do not get credit for each canal instrumented/obturated. I will check with him, but I guess he has somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 canals total. WOW!!!
Ever have a moment where you say to yourself, "That guy is kidding...right...isn't he?" Just happened to me.
I sure hope I get to finish more than 12 cases by graduation. I hope I have more than 12 cases by the time endo interviews roll around this Fall. I know that schools have all sorts of different requirements (a.k.a. Essential Experiences, etc), but it seems to me it should be possible for an interested student at a school with lots of available endo to do more than 25 cases by graduation (How's that for a run-on sentence?).
I will finish with ten cases, about 1/3 molar, 1/3 bi's, and 1/3 single rooted anteriors. I would say I am an "average" dental student with decent clinical skills. That being said, I gave up alot of endo to other students who had more interest or needed the cases. I would think 18-25 would be a good number, and certainly attainable if you have a high interest in endo.
I also was curious about another post where people said it was taking 3-4 appts for molar endo. That sounded like too many to me. I would say the majority of students in my class are doing multi rooted teeth in 2 appts, and if it is a mx 1st with 4 canals then longer, but 4 appts. I dont think my pts would tolerate four appts for one RCT. Disclaimer: we get to use rotary, which I think buys time.
Yeah, we can use rotary too. In the above scenario I was thinking of an upper first molar using hand files. Depending on which faculty are on the floor, I'll usually try to do single-canal endo in a single appointment, upper first bi's in two, and first molars in 2-3. I haven't done any second molars.
3-4 appts! thats nuts! I just did max molar with 4 canals in 1.5 appts. Rotory helps but I often come up short on working length. Max second molars I use hand files due to access issues.
I posted before I knew my schools record I will ask around. One of my class mates has done 35 canals and he still has a summer and 2 semesters of clinic left! Yes, he is going to apply to endo.
1.5 appts? For me that = 2 appts and an early afternoon off, but I guess it could count as 1.5...
Yeah, sure 1 appt and an early afternoon if I don't schedule a second patient for the clinic session.
Anyway my point was that 3-4 appts was excessive for RCT.
I was just playing. I thought it was funny, and I agree that 4 appts seems a little high for endo that doesn't include CaOH with recalls because of resorption, etc.
Root Canals for Everyone...
This thread is starting to sound like a predent DAT discussion. I'd worry more about technical proficiency than speed at this point.
I'm not sure of the exact record at our school, but I've done 31 canals with plenty more to come before applying in June. I've got 3 or 4 other students that refer all of their molar endo to me--the only trouble is trying to stay ahead of other depts requirements while spending so much time in endo. With digital radiographs and rotary (and getting one of the D2s to fetch materials) I've treated two maxillary firsts in three hours each.
Man, I am jealous of some of you. My school SUCKS for endo. Nobody at my school comes even close to those numbers. Practically everything goes to residents. We have an undergrad endo director with a chip on his shoulder who believes GPs shouldn't be doing endo. Who made that hire???
Getting a case approved for a student is next to impossible. I've had cases taken away mid-procedure simply because the director saw me doing it and wanted it for his residents. Oh, we are not allowed rotary or apex locators. Hand files and radiographs only.
I have done lots of access and pulpectomy on an emergency basis but nearly everything then gets sent to the residents. If the patient can't afford resident fees (most of the time), I pull it.
Did I mention my school sucks for endo?
That does suck--that's one benefit of going to a program that has no residency programs. One of my very first cases I did was a four-canal #31 associated with a draining sinus tract out of the guy's chin. Performed RCT and the guy is good as new--that gives you some confidence coming right out of the gate. Another cool thing we have is advanced clinical privileges--after you do 11 canals and pass a competency, you basically do the RCTs yourself--the instructor only has to check your master cone and final radiographs. Also, I'm scheduled to perform an apicoectomy on April 24th with one of the instructors assisting--pretty cool.
I agree. The school I went to did not have an endo residency so we were able to complete ALOT of endo. This really prepares you for doing endo in PP.
With modern technology Molar endo on routine cases probably only takes an experienced dentist or endodontist 30-70 minutes to complete. It's fun and profitable, but always make sure that your speed doesn't compromise your quality.
Our school isn't bad for endo (and our endo department is run very well). Most everybody gets 10+. Some of that may be due to the fact that we can do nearly anything we want (or need) on our externships. I've done 13 but haven't done one since September. I think we have to have 7 teeth to graduate.
Believe it Loco. Of course, I had no previous basis for comparison until I read all of the posts on this thread. I would expect someone like yourself and others who are applying for an endo res to have more cases under their belts. It is apparent that my d-school is a bit low on the RCTs and it is no bs that there are several students in my class who are now scrambling to find cases to fulfill their requirements. We have an interesting situation at our school that throws a monkey wrench in an endo applicant's plan to do a lot of cases. Our student implant program creates the issue. Our college has a contract with an implant manufacturer that allows us to offer a patient an implant/crown (we do not charge for the abutment) for approximately the same cost as a RTC/post/core/crown. In many cases, when a patient is offered these two options at the same price, implants win. The direction that the patient swings depends on the periodontal condition and if the tooth requires crown coverage. I am a sound believer that an implant is by no means an equal substitute for a tooth, but after weighing out the risks/benefits/cost of both with the patient it seems that the implant is favored by the patient. Not to say our endo experience is lackluster. Even with the relatively fewer cases that I have completed, I still feel confident that I can tackle most RCTs. The ones I can't...well...I'll leave that to our fellow endodontists.
Somehow found this thread and thought an update would be interesting. I finished somewhere in the ballpark of 80 cases (I just stopped keeping track after 60). I don't think I realized how lucky I was to have the clinical training that I did at ASDOH until now. Anyone else have any updated numbers? Endoking? DLux?