Endovascular Surgical Neuroradiology

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stupify79

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First of all just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading this forum. I just have a couple of questions about Endovascular Surgical Neuroradiology. I thought u could go on to fellowship to this field after doing radiology residency but now there are fellowships for neurologists as well.

1. Is it any different from it radiology counterpart?

2. How is the lifestyle?

3. How is the future of this subspeciality?

All of ur input is greatly appreciated.

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stupify79 said:
First of all just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading this forum. I just have a couple of questions about Endovascular Surgical Neuroradiology. I thought u could go on to fellowship to this field after doing radiology residency but now there are fellowships for neurologists as well.

1. Is it any different from it radiology counterpart?

2. How is the lifestyle?

3. How is the future of this subspeciality?

All of ur input is greatly appreciated.

1. No. The radiology, neurosurgery, and neurology societies got together to standardize training for this. Most of it was because there was no standard curriculum for it, and also some societies (e.g., AAN) were trying to cheat and push a substandard and very short training scheme. Now it's similar for everyone. You want to do it, then you need to train adequately for it. The training programs are now being balanced out by trainees from all three fields.

2. The lifestyle depends on your practice settings, just like any other specialty, and how deeply involved you want to get and how many complicated procedures you want to do. Generally, it is a terrible lifestyle. Lots of emergencies, lots of call, not too many partners to cover for you, sick patients, high morbidity and mortality. A good number of neurosurgeons don't want to do it because of lifestyle issues, and they are neurosurgeons. The worst lifestyle for a neurosurgeon would be cerebrovascular. Why do it if they can focus on tumor surgery, functional neurosurgery, spine, etc.?

3. The future, in terms of job prospects and pay should be very good, since they are in high demand.
 
stupify79 said:
First of all just wanted to say it's a pleasure reading this forum. I just have a couple of questions about Endovascular Surgical Neuroradiology. I thought u could go on to fellowship to this field after doing radiology residency but now there are fellowships for neurologists as well.

1. Is it any different from it radiology counterpart?

2. How is the lifestyle?

3. How is the future of this subspeciality?

All of ur input is greatly appreciated.

Check these out..

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/full/23/10/1700

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/full/21/6/1153?ijkey=f9a71e9410baa2e2e70e8e7e13999ab66b826d71

hth

S
 
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I thought that Endovascular Surgical Neuroradiology is a fellowship that is open to Neurosurgeons only!!!

Can you enter an Endovasc. Sx. Neurorx. fellowship coming from Neurology? :confused:
 
The second study posted above talks about fellowship guidelines for endovasc neuroradiology. It states that fellows must have completed training in either neuroradiology or neurosurgery. So I think the answer is no, one cannot go into that fellowship from neurology. Anyone else hear differently? I really don't know much about this fellowhip. I just skimmed those articles posted above.
 
If the ACGME requirements for fellowship accreditation are any guideline, you CAN enter an INR fellowship from neurology residency (+ 1 year of vascular neurology):

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/422pr403.pdf

Page 5

> d. Residents entering from a neurology background must have
> fulfilled the following preparatory requirements, in addition to the
> common requirements:
>
> 1) Completed an ACGME-accredited residency in neurology;
>
> 2) Completed an ACGME-accredited 1-year vascular
> neurology program;
>
> 3) Completed a 3-month course in basic radiology skills
> acceptable to the program director where the
> neuroradiology training will occur. The basic radiology
> skills and neuroradiology training may be acquired during
> elective time in the neurology residency.
>
> 4) Completed 3 months of clinical experience in an ACGME-
> accredited neurological surgery program, which may be
> acquired during elective time in neurology and/or vascular
> neurology training.
 
Neurologists can certainly enter ENS fellowships. There was an editorial on the training guidelines that only specified neurosurgeons and neuroradiologists (for political turf war reasons) but the guidelines clearly allow neurologists as well. I've had this confirmed by interventional neuroradiologists who sit on the boards deciding this stuff.

I should mention that ACGME-approved ENS fellowships are rare. Many of the current interventional neuroradiology and endovascular neurosurgery fellowships are attempting to get ACGME accreditation.

Neurologists have been training in interventional neurology, but unfortunately the future of this continuing (and growing) is very uncertain at present. Almost all INR/ENS fellowships (except 3 that I know of) are run by radiologists or neurosurgeons only. So unless you are one of 3 lucky fellows, you will have to convince a neuroradiologist or a neurosurgeon that you are as good or better as a neurologist to enter the field. This is obviously not very easy, and is only possible today because neuroradiology is very lucrative with many less hours without the interventions, and neurosurgeons simply don't want to tack on the extra 2 years of training. So often, a few extra spots every year are available (typically in radiology run programs) that will accept neurologists (typically those trained in vascular AND neurointensive care).

For us potential interventional neurologists, this poses a problem since getting a spot depends highly on whether neuroradiologists and neurosurgeons will continue to stay away from the field or not. The only way to provide some resilience against this is for neurologists to start their own programs (and a few will over the next several years, but probably not many).

If you are extremely interested in interventional neurology, I would recommend considering neurosurgery first. It essentially gaurantees you a fellowship in this field, provides sufficient radiological and neurointensive care training, and allows you to handle some of your cases surgically if necessary. However, if you don't want to spend 4/7 neurosurgery years doing spine cases while your wife (if you had time to get married) is threatening a divorce, spend 9 years as a resident, and are more interested in stroke than aneurysms, then do neurology. Most neuroradiologists have recommended to do neurology instead (!) to get the clinical training and avoid turf wars in the future. If you really want INR as a neurologist, you will be able to find a fellowship spot somewhere (though unlikely in or near a city of preference...) The best option is really to do neurology and radiology, and this might be the option that I will personally take (my wife politely asked me not to do neurosurgery...) But then be ready for a minimum of 10 years as a resident.

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