Engineer Considering Med School -- Some Questions

[MBHockey]

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Halfway through my Mechanical Engineering degree I decided it wasn't really for me. I graduated in May 2007 with a 3.3 and have worked since the summer as an engineer. I'm more convinced now than before that I'd rather pursue a career in medicine.

I'd like to figure out exactly what I'd need to do, however. I have taken a lot of the same classes as pre-meds, but need some more. Namely, I have only one semester of Bio with a lab, so I'd need one more. Also, I'll need to take both semesters of organic chemistry. I have taken a year of inorganic chem, and have all the math, physics, and english requirements. I'll likely look into taking Biochemistry also.

My question is this -- is there any way I could complete the courses I need starting from this summer, take the MCATS, and apply for admission to med school for Fall '09? Is this entirely unrealistic? I'd be taking classes full time if I did this (I would leave my current job this July).

I've been considering making this move for a few months, but just this week started to really look into what it would take.

thanks

 

[DrMidlife]

I say don't do it. You're not well-positioned to succeed, and you're too young to be in this much of a hurry.

Applications for Fall '09 open around June 1, 2008. The savvy applicants with GPAs under 3.5 are all going to hit submit that day, because with non-stellar stats, the best strategy is to apply very early and very broadly.

Those savvy sub-3.5ers will have good MCAT scores before June 1. They'll have fistfuls of extra-curriculars, clinical experience, glowing letters of recommendation, community service, and probably research. They'll start getting interview invites in July, if everything other than their GPAs are solid. This is the group that you could be in for Fall '10, which would be great, but you won't be in this group for Fall '09.

The group you'll be in, with your plan for Fall '09, is the sub-3.5ers who don't have their MCAT score until the end of summer '08, so they don't receive secondaries until November or so, and any interview invites are for January or later, when adcoms are tired and have seen so many perfect applicants that they don't need to be nice to the imperfect ones.

As a former engineer with a sub-3.5 score, I advise one of two things.

1. Be hellbent to get in Fall '09, and just f***ing go for it. Look up "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" in the DSM and become it. Quit your job right now, start MCAT prep right now, start working in a hospital right now, get your personal statement started, get letters of recommendation started, get going. Kill the MCAT in time to have your score in hand by June 15 '08. Put extra hard work into the bio sci section, because you haven't taken this coursework yet. If you can get your ducks in a row to apply this June, then you're finishing prereqs during your application year and that's fine. You can theoretically work full or part time during your app year, if all you're taking is one term of bio and two terms of ochem. But I would NOT try to work full time during MCAT prep: that's your make-or-break for a Fall '09 plan.

2. Do it slower. Have some sanity.

Best of luck to you.

 

[sunny1]

Halfway through my Mechanical Engineering degree I decided it wasn't really for me. I graduated in May 2007 with a 3.3 and have worked since the summer as an engineer. I'm more convinced now than before that I'd rather pursue a career in medicine.

I'd like to figure out exactly what I'd need to do, however. I have taken a lot of the same classes as pre-meds, but need some more. Namely, I have only one semester of Bio with a lab, so I'd need one more. Also, I'll need to take both semesters of organic chemistry. I have taken a year of inorganic chem, and have all the math, physics, and english requirements. I'll likely look into taking Biochemistry also.

My question is this -- is there any way I could complete the courses I need starting from this summer, take the MCATS, and apply for admission to med school for Fall '09? Is this entirely unrealistic? I'd be taking classes full time if I did this (I would leave my current job this July).

I've been considering making this move for a few months, but just this week started to really look into what it would take.

thanks

It's unlikely this tight timeline would work because you want to be as competitive an applicant as possible I imagine. I feel like you'd be in a much stronger position if you took this upcoming academic year to do what you need to do and then apply first thing summer 2009.

For the MCAT, most everyone recommends taking all the prerequisites before sitting for the exam. You could take Org Chem I and II over the summer, and self study for the 2nd portion of Bio covered on MCAT (and plan to take the actual class in the fall). With summer classes typically lasting into early August, the earliest I imagine you'd be ready would be August or September. Though the last MCAT for this year is not until Sept. 13, that means your score wouldn't be available to schools until October. A late application can make a big difference in this process.

I feel it would be better for you to do the chem classes over the summer, then take Bio II and biochem during the regular academic year. That way you'll have plenty of time to prep properly for the MCAT. You should go ahead and calculate your BCMP gpa (bio, chem, math, physics) to see what that number is and give you a better idea of how competitive an applicant you will be - it will also give you something to aim for in taking the classes if you decide you need to raise it or just make you feel better if it's already good.

Do you have any volunteering or clinical experience? Some formative event that made you consider medicine? You will need to add experience volunteering or shadowing or something medically-related to your plans to show that you have considered the career and know what you're getting into (if you haven't already). I know of a few aero engineers making the move for med school. It can certainly be done. Good luck! And remember, a year really isn't that long to wait to apply if it means getting things in order properly and being in the best position when your time comes.

 

[sawood]

I say don't do it. You're not well-positioned to succeed, and you're too young to be in this much of a hurry.

Applications for Fall '09 open around June 1, 2008. The savvy applicants with GPAs under 3.5 are all going to hit submit that day, because with non-stellar stats, the best strategy is to apply very early and very broadly.

Those savvy sub-3.5ers will have good MCAT scores before June 1. They'll have fistfuls of extra-curriculars, clinical experience, glowing letters of recommendation, community service, and probably research. They'll start getting interview invites in July, if everything other than their GPAs are solid. This is the group that you could be in for Fall '10, which would be great, but you won't be in this group for Fall '09.

The group you'll be in, with your plan for Fall '09, is the sub-3.5ers who don't have their MCAT score until the end of summer '08, so they don't receive secondaries until November or so, and any interview invites are for January or later, when adcoms are tired and have seen so many perfect applicants that they don't need to be nice to the imperfect ones.

As a former engineer with a sub-3.5 score, I advise one of two things.

1. Be hellbent to get in Fall '09, and just f***ing go for it. Look up "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" in the DSM and become it. Quit your job right now, start MCAT prep right now, start working in a hospital right now, get your personal statement started, get letters of recommendation started, get going. Kill the MCAT in time to have your score in hand by June 15 '08. Put extra hard work into the bio sci section, because you haven't taken this coursework yet. If you can get your ducks in a row to apply this June, then you're finishing prereqs during your application year and that's fine. You can theoretically work full or part time during your app year, if all you're taking is one term of bio and two terms of ochem. But I would NOT try to work full time during MCAT prep: that's your make-or-break for a Fall '09 plan.

2. Do it slower. Have some sanity.

Best of luck to you.

Hmmm, I don't think the OCD is just limited to people in a hurry 😀

Engineers rock! I agree with the above poster, its just not a good idea. I submitted late (primary verified in late september). I was like you, mechanical engineer, jumped ship.

Even though I chose to do a grad program and have a 3.85 grad gpa, my undergrad was 3.3 and its taken work to get BCPM to 3.5. I have an average MCAT (31), partly because I didn't allow enough prep time. Being complete late has lead to a lot of pre-interview holds or post-new year interview invites, and basically an all around crappy admissions process (and subsequent development of OCD by checking my email 100 times a day). I of course live in California, which is another disadvantage.

Then, there are the ones who were done interviewing and accepted to their #1 school by October 15..........

Take the time you need, don't try to rush it. You'll get there, the time will fly quicker than you think. Also, take what pre-med counselors say with a grain of salt. The ones at my school told the students that they didn't need one of the OCHEM labs. That sounded weird to me, so I called wrote to one of the schools I interviewed at, and they told me yes, that lab was required.

 

[MBHockey]

Thank you all for your responses...they're invaluable!

Ok, so it seems it wouldn't be the best idea to try and squeeze it in. But I am 23 which makes me think I'm too old to be taking it slow...or is that not the case?

I'm confused about the timeline for MCAT/Applying/Acceptance. Say I decide to go through with it, on the Fall '10 plan. I would take all the pre-reqs this coming academic year (Fall '08 + Spring '09) and then take the MCAT in... April? Or August? (are those the only times it's given?)

After the MCAT, how long do you wait to apply? Say I take the MCAT in April of '09...that would be a good time to take it for admission Fall '10?

Also, what is BCPM gpa? And wouldn't any extra classes I take after my BS in ME not change my gpa anyway? I know that I've only got a 3.3, but in engineering land that is a solid number (I was on dean's list most semesters)...do medical schools take into account that it was a 3.3 in engineering? Or do they just look at it being a 3.3 in general?

 

[sunny1]

Ok, so it seems it wouldn't be the best idea to try and squeeze it in. But I am 23 which makes me think I'm too old to be taking it slow...or is that not the case?

No, you're not too old. This is the nontrad forum. If you look around on this page or do a search, you will find a thread with everyone's ages on it. Most people here are >23. And by doing what I said, you wouldn't be taking it slow. You would be going a normal, measured pace for where you are at the moment.

I'm confused about the timeline for MCAT/Applying/Acceptance. Say I decide to go through with it, on the Fall '10 plan. I would take all the pre-reqs this coming academic year (Fall '08 + Spring '09) and then take the MCAT in... April? Or August? (are those the only times it's given?)

Ok, applications through AMCAS (if you are only interested in MD) open in early June. You should look around this site for sure: http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/start.htm For DO programs, the organization is AACOMAS.

You take the MCAT when you are ready. That could be as early as January for you I think. It is now a computer-based test like the GRE, so it is offered multiple times a year: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/start.htm

Then you would apply over summer 2009. Interviews are conducted from fall 2009-spring 2010 (I know, that sounds like a long way away). In spring 2010 you decide where to go if you got into >1 place and then you matriculate and start fall 2010.

Also, what is BCPM gpa? And wouldn't any extra classes I take after my BS in ME not change my gpa anyway? I know that I've only got a 3.3, but in engineering land that is a solid number (I was on dean's list most semesters)...do medical schools take into account that it was a 3.3 in engineering? Or do they just look at it being a 3.3 in general?

If you are taking regular undergrad classes like Org Chem, regardless of whether you have already graduated or not, that will still be rounded into your final GPA that schools consider. If you look at year-by-year GPA, it would be considered post-bacc. But it still will be figured into your final GPA, which in many cases is a good thing so long as you do well!

In terms of the value of a 3.3 engineering GPA...I think many people understand that those classes can be quite a bit more difficult. But at the same time, we all play the numbers game and 3.3 would be considered below average if you look at average accepted GPA of med school applicants. I'm not trying to scare you. Clearly there are people below and above the average to get us to that final number, so you certainly still are in a good starting point. Just try to get the GPA up a little if possible and be sure you do well on the MCAT by preparing for it seriously. And consider the volunteering or clinical stuff that I mentioned earlier.

 

[sunny1]

Here's the thread I mentioned. A full year's worth of posts by nontrads with their ages.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=351126

Heck, 23 is practically traditional. 😉

 

[MBHockey]

The age thing is very reassuring...thank you for clarifying that.

Also, thanks for clarifying the application process -- what I wasn't understanding was the length of time that interviews go on for -- is that why they call it an "application year"?

Lastly, you said I might be ready to take the MCAT in January. Was that in reference to the scenario where I start taking the pre-reqs i need in Fall '08? If it was, i would not have finished organic chemistry II (i'd be just starting it) -- can you take the MCAT without that?

 

[sawood]

Thank you all for your responses...they're invaluable!

Ok, so it seems it wouldn't be the best idea to try and squeeze it in. But I am 23 which makes me think I'm too old to be taking it slow...or is that not the case?

I'm confused about the timeline for MCAT/Applying/Acceptance. Say I decide to go through with it, on the Fall '10 plan. I would take all the pre-reqs this coming academic year (Fall '08 + Spring '09) and then take the MCAT in... April? Or August? (are those the only times it's given?)

After the MCAT, how long do you wait to apply? Say I take the MCAT in April of '09...that would be a good time to take it for admission Fall '10?

Also, what is BCPM gpa? And wouldn't any extra classes I take after my BS in ME not change my gpa anyway? I know that I've only got a 3.3, but in engineering land that is a solid number (I was on dean's list most semesters)...do medical schools take into account that it was a 3.3 in engineering? Or do they just look at it being a 3.3 in general?

Okay, here's the things I would do:

1. MCAT: Take it so that you get your scores back by June 1. The MCAT website has the "predicted score release dates" on there somewhere. I would make sure that I took all the bio, most of the organic chem, and have a solid understand of microbio and biochem. Also allow for time to review your gen chem and physics. Take the practice tests and see how you do. If you do really well, take the MCAT sooner. If you don't do so well, take the MCAT closer to April / May. The MCAT is offerred on the computer multiple times a year. Pay attention to sign up dates for the MCAT (several months prior to test date) because some sites in some months fill up quickly and you'll end up going to BFE to take the test.

2. Submit your AMCAS primary application as early as possible. Yes, it is possible to get admitted to medical school if you submit late, but the application process sucks enough already and you want to give yourself every advantage. That means you start writing your personal statement sometime around beginning of April so that its ready and reviewed by people who have good grammar and writing skills (engineers are known for their lack of writing ability, myself included).

3. Buy the MSAR, its available on the AMCAS website as well. Its got great info on every school.

4. Start thinking right now about who you want to write you letters of recommendation. You'll need at least one science professor (I don't know that engineering counts for science at all schools), so target one this upcomming year and work at developing a strong relationship with that teacher. Sometimes schools (UCSD) require a letter of rec from a humanities professor, or something of the like. Look at the websites for your top schools, look at their requirements for letters, and make sure you've got those solid relationships. Make sure you ask them to write the letters to allow enough time for it to be submitted to your college letter service or Interfolio, bearing in mind many profs go on vacation over the summer. I would ask them in May, with gentle reminders every now and then. Letters of rec are sent with the secondaries.

5. If you submit your primary in June, you should be verified in a matter of days (mine took a month since it was in late Aug). You'll get your first round of secondaries in a few weeks to a month from schools that don't screen. Shortly thereafter you'll get the schools that do screan. Fill these out really well, have someone with good grammar and writing skills review it, and get them in. You will be sick to death of writing, but push through it. With any luck, you'll get your first interview invites towards the end of summer.

6. Apply broadly, especially if you live in California. I would apply to at least 20 schools (use MSAR as a guide). Apply to some reach schools, some schools in your range, and some slightly below your range.

7. BCPM means take the GPA of all your physics, math, gen chem, ochem, and bio (including micro bio, etc). Engineering does not count into BCPM. And I realize that a 3.3 in mechanical engineering is awesome, however do not count on admissions committees giving it a second thought. Some may care, some may not, and in some cases a computer will be the one doing an initial GPA/MCAT numbers screen.

8. Get clinical and medically related experience. If your top school is a research institution (Stanford, UCSF, UC Davis, etc, etc) then find a way to get some research experience (all the while developing relationships with the doctor you shadow, the researcher you work for, for the eventual letter of recommendation).

9. Make sure you have money saved for this process. For example, primaries cost $150 for the first school, $30 for each school you add after that. Secondaries range from $60-$130 each. Then there's travel expenses to interviews, the cost of taking the MCAT is ~$200, if you take a review course for the MCAT that's more $.

Oh, and I'm 30, soooooooo, yeah, you're young......

Good luck . Engineers rock, you'll do fine.

 

[MBHockey]

Thank you for all this information. It's so helpful.

I have another question...about practicing medicine in general.

I was a little taken aback because recently my mom went to a specialist (ophthalmologist) and he said that it is not a good idea, in general, to try and get into medicine now. Also, my aunt works as a nurse for a cardiologist -- who echoed the sentiments of the ophthalmologist. They both cited rising malpractice insurance costs and a deficiency in the amount that health insurance companies pay the doctors for their care. The cardiologist has a son that he has been dissuading from entering the medical field for these reasons.

I just want to be reasonably sure that I'd be able to sustain some sort of career. From what these specialists are saying I am a little worried. I'm not sure if they are upset because they can't afford both the latest Lexus AND Mercedes...or they are legitimately having a hard time breaking even with all the insurance costs.

Do you guys have any input about this?

 

[sawood]

Thank you for all this information. It's so helpful.

I have another question...about practicing medicine in general.

I was a little taken aback because recently my mom went to a specialist (ophthalmologist) and he said that it is not a good idea, in general, to try and get into medicine now. Also, my aunt works as a nurse for a cardiologist -- who echoed the sentiments of the ophthalmologist. They both cited rising malpractice insurance costs and a deficiency in the amount that health insurance companies pay the doctors for their care. The cardiologist has a son that he has been dissuading from entering the medical field for these reasons.

I just want to be reasonably sure that I'd be able to sustain some sort of career. From what these specialists are saying I am a little worried. I'm not sure if they are upset because they can't afford both the latest Lexus AND Mercedes...or they are legitimately having a hard time breaking even with all the insurance costs.

Do you guys have any input about this?

My mom's a nurse and the docs that she works with say the same things. But the doc that I worked with for a while loved what he did and never would discourage someone, and there are docs out there who love what they do. I think its true that medicine is different from 'what it used to be' but nothing ever stays the same anyway.

I have the same worry as you. I just can't see myself doing anything besides medicine, so I have to believe that there will be a way to make a living doing so (even if its not luxury).

Look at it this way: if by some strange turn of events docs are no longer able to make a salary to make ends meet, your undergrad engineering degree combined with an MD will land you a hefty salary at some medical device and pharm companies. You'll be able to land on your feet.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thank you for all this information. It's so helpful.

I have another question...about practicing medicine in general.

I was a little taken aback because recently my mom went to a specialist (ophthalmologist) and he said that it is not a good idea, in general, to try and get into medicine now. Also, my aunt works as a nurse for a cardiologist -- who echoed the sentiments of the ophthalmologist. They both cited rising malpractice insurance costs and a deficiency in the amount that health insurance companies pay the doctors for their care. The cardiologist has a son that he has been dissuading from entering the medical field for these reasons.

I just want to be reasonably sure that I'd be able to sustain some sort of career. From what these specialists are saying I am a little worried. I'm not sure if they are upset because they can't afford both the latest Lexus AND Mercedes...or they are legitimately having a hard time breaking even with all the insurance costs.

Do you guys have any input about this?

If these doctors are over, say, 45, then they came into medicine before everything went catterwompus under managed care and regulation. The daily practice of medicine is nothing like what it was when they were residents. There is no shortage of doctors approaching retirement who can't freaking wait to get out, but can't retire early because, yep, they've been buying a new Lexus every year and they have no clue how to keep a business running.

Your mom's aunt Tilda's hairdresser is always going to have a story. You need to get an inside view so that you don't have to use this "information" to form your opinions. I strongly recommend that you find physicians to shadow, and get the story first-hand. Get a volunteer gig in a hospital and listen to midlevels and residents bitch - and also make sure to witness the post-multi-casualty-incident response adrenaline high.

I also suggest you start reading. Read about health policy, read about the history of health insurance in America, read about public health here and abroad, read memoirs by doctors, read books by journalists about the state of US health care. Start reading the NYTimes (online is fine) and get in the info loop. And pick up something like Managing Money for Dummies while you're at it.

If nobody has explained MD vs. DO to you yet, browse the pre-osteo section. It's a great deal easier to find a DO to shadow than an MD.

As for physician compensation, you can collect a million different opinions on where things are going to go, and they're probably all wrong. Personally, I'm a museum quality, tax and spend liberal over 40, and as much as I'd like to see universal health care, it won't happen in my lifetime and probably not yours. Too many financial interests have too much to protect. Subspecialists are still going to clear $600k, and they'll still feel broke if they can't manage their money. New MDs are always going to want control, so they'll go into private practice without an MBA and get seriously spanked, disillusioned and financially depleted.

Getting your brain and your heart around what you're getting yourself into is probably the best reason to not be in a hurry to start med school.

 

[MBHockey]

Indeed.

Do you guys think i should be totally done with my pre-reqs before taking the MCATs? What it comes down to is Organic Chemistry II a big topic on the MCAT? That is the only course I would not be done with if I were to do my pre-reqs next year.

Or would it be smarter to take all my pre-reqs over the summer in a few summer sessions (I checked...I can do this at the school i got my BS in ME from) and then spend my time during fall 08 prepping for the MCAT in January?

Is it dumb to try to take O-Chem I and II in summer sessions? Do you miss out on a lot in a summer session as opposed to the normal fall/spring schedule? I'm accustomed to spending a lot of time in libraries from engineering.

 

[mcclesm]

But I am 23 which makes me think I'm too old to be taking it slow...or is that not the case?

Dagger in my heart! Ouch!

I'm an aerospace engineer, graduated in 2002. I'm 29, and will be applying for '10 matriculation, with basically the same pre-reqs to take that you need, starting this summer. My advice is don't rush it, and take extra science classes to raise your BCPM (I'm going full time this summer, next fall and spring). I too thought about trying to cram it all in to apply for '09, but in the end I just don't think it's smart. My GPA is a tad lower than yours, and I realize I'm going to need an awesome MCAT to counter it.

Good luck!

 

[MBHockey]

No dagger! I'm just wholly uninformed!

When do you plan on taking the MCATs? And when will you be done with all the courses that are covered on it?

 

[mcclesm]

No dagger! I'm just wholly uninformed!

When do you plan on taking the MCATs? And when will you be done with all the courses that are covered on it?

I'm thinking I'll take the MCAT in April or May '09, I will be done with O Chem II in May '09 as well. I want to make sure I get my MCAT score back in time to apply as early as possible to give myself the best chance to get accepted somewhere. Apply early (month of June) and broadly (as many shcools as you can afford) is the best advice I've gotten from SDN.

 

[MBHockey]

How does that work though? Shouldn't we finish O-Chem II before taking the exam?

Edit: Oh ok, you said May '09. That sounds a lot like my plan. It takes 8 weeks for MCAT scores to get out?

 

[sawood]

Indeed.

Do you guys think i should be totally done with my pre-reqs before taking the MCATs? What it comes down to is Organic Chemistry II a big topic on the MCAT? That is the only course I would not be done with if I were to do my pre-reqs next year.

Or would it be smarter to take all my pre-reqs over the summer in a few summer sessions (I checked...I can do this at the school i got my BS in ME from) and then spend my time during fall 08 prepping for the MCAT in January?

Is it dumb to try to take O-Chem I and II in summer sessions? Do you miss out on a lot in a summer session as opposed to the normal fall/spring schedule? I'm accustomed to spending a lot of time in libraries from engineering.

I'm not sure how a summer session compares to regular. But I don't understand the rush to take both over the summer? Ochem is not a huge part of the bio sciences section, but its worth your while to make it through 'most' of ochem before you take the MCAT. I've seen people do okay if they were 2/3 of the way through.

Also, consider taking more biology, micro, biochemistry, physio, cell biology, genetics, etc. These will all boost your undergrad gpa, are often recommended by schools (biochem is a requirement by some schools), and can help you on the MCAT.

 

[MBHockey]

Yeah, there's really no rush. It looks like I will be taking the courses during the traditional academic year (Fall '08 and Spring '09). Is there a list of classes that are "not required, but probably should be taken to do well on the MCAT" -- kind of thing? I know you mentioned some, but are there more? Is there a more formal list? I will be taking classes full time.

Thank you so much for your time

 

[sawood]

Yeah, there's really no rush. It looks like I will be taking the courses during the traditional academic year (Fall '08 and Spring '09). Is there a list of classes that are "not required, but probably should be taken to do well on the MCAT" -- kind of thing? I know you mentioned some, but are there more? Is there a more formal list? I will be taking classes full time.

Thank you so much for your time

So what you really want to aim for are classes that are applying and integrating what you learned in your basic bio and ochem, that is what will help you the most on the MCAT. Biochem is good, and you probably need it anyway.

Take a practice test, get a feel for the questions. That will tell you what areas you are weak in and what courses you would benefit from.

Hey, writing to you is more interesting than working on my thesis 😀

 

[MBHockey]

Being an ignorant engineer, I don't know what those classes would be...where could I look? And would the o-chem and Bio II that I still have to take be pre-reqs for these classes?

 

[DrMidlife]

Being an ignorant engineer, I don't know what those classes would be...where could I look? And would the o-chem and Bio II that I still have to take be pre-reqs for these classes?

I suggest you look in the MCAT forum to confirm this, but as I recall, the majority of material in 2nd semester ochem is NOT on the MCAT. But the benefit of finishing up all of ochem, and taking biochem as well, is fairly substantial. As an engineer, I found ochem to be completely arbitrary and not at all systematic (other engineers had no such problem), so the more of it I used, the better.

Here are some classes that imho were good for MCAT prep:

- cellular & molecular bio (usually just bio as a prereq)
- physiology or cell physiology (bio prereq)
- genetics or bacterial/viral genetics (bio prereq)
- anatomy (again, bio prereq)
- biochem (bio & ochem prereqs)

Anything that solidifies or integrates your knowledge from bio, chem, physics & ochem is a good use of time. For example, you'll get an overview of kidney function, probably down to the osmotic pressures, in biology, and then if you get into cell physiology, you'll get a much deeper comprehension of what's going on there. Any coursework that gets your brain around what's going on in a cell membrane, where all these proteins are coming from and how they fit together, etc. makes the underlying principles completely obvious. And pretty much all of this then helps you during med school as well.

 

[sawood]

I suggest you look in the MCAT forum to confirm this, but as I recall, the majority of material in 2nd semester ochem is NOT on the MCAT. But the benefit of finishing up all of ochem, and taking biochem as well, is fairly substantial. As an engineer, I found ochem to be completely arbitrary and not at all systematic (other engineers had no such problem), so the more of it I used, the better.

Here are some classes that imho were good for MCAT prep:

- cellular & molecular bio (usually just bio as a prereq)
- physiology or cell physiology (bio prereq)
- genetics or bacterial/viral genetics (bio prereq)
- anatomy (again, bio prereq)
- biochem (bio & ochem prereqs)

Anything that solidifies or integrates your knowledge from bio, chem, physics & ochem is a good use of time. For example, you'll get an overview of kidney function, probably down to the osmotic pressures, in biology, and then if you get into cell physiology, you'll get a much deeper comprehension of what's going on there. Any coursework that gets your brain around what's going on in a cell membrane, where all these proteins are coming from and how they fit together, etc. makes the underlying principles completely obvious. And pretty much all of this then helps you during med school as well.

I agree, you don't need ALL of Ochem to do okay on the MCAT. For me Ochem was fun, but I had a really, really good teacher. This is a class where you really want to find the good instructors, ask around. Then, just work problems from the book like there's no tomorrow.

I agree with the list above as good classes to take. I don't know how feasible it is to take all before the MCAT? I would pick the ones that interest you on that list that are also listed at your favorite school's admissions websites as 'recommended'.

Also, try making an appointment at a nearby med school in your area to talk to one of the admissions people there. They are the ones who can give you the best feedback, not a couple strangers on an internet forum 😎. I personally wouldn't go to the undergrad pre-med advising centers because my experience has been that they don't know much (especially about non-trads).

One thought with your ME degree is to take one or two biomedical engineering classes if it fits in your schedule and is offerred. For example, tissue engineering, biomechanics, biotransport, neuromuscular signaling, etc. Its got more math (yay), and can add some cool flavor to your app and the classes are fun. Also, perhaps approach the biomedical engineering department for some research opportunities? That way, maybe you could be doing medically related research during your application year and possibly getting paid.

 

[Alvarez13]

Hey MBHockey! I hear where you're coming from. I graduated Dec 07 with my BS in Mech Eng and a minor in Biomechanics. Did a couple of internships in the Aviation industry, Consulting, and am now working for a medical device company. However, I'm still not getting enough out of my job (mainly the human component) and decided to make the switch to medicine right as I was graduating. I'm 23 too😀

I'm with most of this thread on taking your time rather than rushing. There's just too many applicants out there with too much on their application. I graduated with a 3.4 and it got me into all the honors clubs and magna cum laude. However, compared to all these bio, chem, and humanities majors, it makes me look like a slacker, lol. Take the time to build up a really strong resume and while your at it, see what it really means to be a doctor. I'm in the same situation as you with classes. I need 2 sem of Organic Chem and a semester of Bio. Here's what I'm doing:

-Summer 08: Taking Organic Chem I and hopefully an ethics class or something non-science to get a non-science LOR out of it.
-Fall 08: Organic Chem II and Biology I (I never went to Bio I when I took it and got a C+).
-Spring 09: Taking Biology II and possibly Biochem if I have time (I'm a FL resident and Biochem is required at some of my schools). I'll then take the MCAT in April and will send in all my AMCAS application stuff as soon as soon as the calendar changes to June 1, 2009.

I'm going to be doing these classes through a post-bac program. You can do them at any university, but being in a post-bac program means I get priority during registration over everyone! You could also declare a 2nd BS to get higher priority and it'll be okay if you don't finish it. I'm also going to be working full time at my current job.

After 133 credit hours, it's tough for me to up my GPA. Since you're in the same boat, you have to strengthen other areas of your application. I volunteered for an ER for a semester, a surgical center back home in Tampa for a week (full time), and another surgical center for a semester at school. This week, I'm calling two hospitals in my area (one is a teaching one associated with my alma mater) and will hopefully get a lot of 1 on 1 shadowing under my belt. You're goal is to get as much clinically experience as you can to prove to the adcoms that you know what you're getting into.

Hit me up if you have any questions or want help with the application. Maybe you'll be able to help me out too.

 

[Alvarez13]

I agree, you don't need ALL of Ochem to do okay on the MCAT. For me Ochem was fun, but I had a really, really good teacher. This is a class where you really want to find the good instructors, ask around. Then, just work problems from the book like there's no tomorrow.

I agree with the list above as good classes to take. I don't know how feasible it is to take all before the MCAT? I would pick the ones that interest you on that list that are also listed at your favorite school's admissions websites as 'recommended'.

Also, try making an appointment at a nearby med school in your area to talk to one of the admissions people there. They are the ones who can give you the best feedback, not a couple strangers on an internet forum 😎. I personally wouldn't go to the undergrad pre-med advising centers because my experience has been that they don't know much (especially about non-trads).

One thought with your ME degree is to take one or two biomedical engineering classes if it fits in your schedule and is offerred. For example, tissue engineering, biomechanics, biotransport, neuromuscular signaling, etc. Its got more math (yay), and can add some cool flavor to your app and the classes are fun. Also, perhaps approach the biomedical engineering department for some research opportunities? That way, maybe you could be doing medically related research during your application year and possibly getting paid.

I loved my Biomechanics classes. Basically all the cool parts about engineering applied to the human body. If you have time to take some, I'd definitely go for it. I really wish my school had had a BME program.

 

[MBHockey]

Awesome! Yeah i'll definitely be in contact with you.

I'd like to take Organic Chem I over the summer if i can (it's a pre req for a lot of interesting bio classes)...but I have to stay at my job until July, so i'm not sure if i can swing that. We'll see.

 

[chr123]

Rushing it is the worst thing you can do.

Graduated August '05 ME 3.33 GPA
Fall 06: Bio 1 and o-chem 1
Spring 07: Bio 2 and o-chem 2
MCAT 27 in april and 30 in may of 2007
summer 07: Gen Chem 2 (my school taught all of chem in 1 semester so I needed credit for the 2nd even though I already had the material)
Fall 2007: Genetics and Biochem
Final GPA 3.47
Starting med school 8-2008

I did this while volunteering in the ER and keeping my enigneering job.

Timing worked out perfectly for me. I somehow got accepted. I was probably more lucky than good. You really need good grades in these pre-reqs to prove that your engineering GPA is comprable to a higher bio gpa. Just remember that even though you have an engineering degree, you're still going to have to put in the same amount of work everyone else does in your pre-reqs.



Good luck

 

[Alvarez13]

Awesome! Yeah i'll definitely be in contact with you.

I'd like to take Organic Chem I over the summer if i can (it's a pre req for a lot of interesting bio classes)...but I have to stay at my job until July, so i'm not sure if i can swing that. We'll see.

Definitely talk to the people you work for about their views on continuing education. I'm working full time and there are a lot of people working on various degrees (ME, MBA, etc.) while working full time. They've also agreed to let me take my pre-reqs during the day as long as I put in my 40hrs/week and get my work done. Most companies now-a-days, especially technical ones w/ a lot of engineers, encourage continuing education. Just do what I'm doing and work a semester to see how things go and get used to the work and then work out a class schedule. Some companies may even pay for your tuition if you agree to work for them for a year or two after (you could work during your application year). Just talk to your manager/HR person when you start.

 

[MBHockey]

Most companies encourage that...mine doesn't. They will pay for law school, but my job is closely related to law so that isn't surprising. I've looked into it 🙂