Engineer to Physician.. what’s the best path forward??? Need advice

[MechanicallyMedical]

Introduction
Hi all,

I have found myself in a bit of a predicament and would really (really) love some advice.

Just to give a little background… Right now, I’m an engineer at a large aerospace and defense company (100,000+ employees). I studied mechanical engineering with minors in electrical and aerospace engineering. I graduated a little over a year ago in May of 2019 and have been working in the industry ever since.

In 2015, I shattered my ankle and needed surgery to repair the fibula, deltoid ligaments, and syndesmosis. I became enthralled with the procedure and researched everything I could about it from publications to videos of the procedure itself. I didn’t think much about my borderline obsession over this event, but looking back, it was definitely a sign… Fast forward to 2019, major life events led to the realization that I want to pursue medicine (I’ll spare the details of these events).

After doing hours of research on how to get into medical school, let alone as a non-trad, I started volunteering at a local ED. I volunteered from January to March of this year, then COVID put a swift end to that. I found another gig at a non-profit clinic starting this week that is more relevant to my values and motives. This clinic is also more hands-on with more patient interaction.

This experience has solidified my desire to become a doctor. That said, I have a few courses of action that I would love input on.

Stats
I finished my BS with:

• cGPA of 3.88/4.00
• BCPM of 3.86

I have not taken the MCAT. I have 30ish hours of clinical volunteering (more to come).

The Problem
Currently, I am enrolled in a leadership program through my work, which will take 3 years and result in a masters in Computer Science and a ton of leadership experience. I am starting my first year this August, which will then go until May of 2023 (if I decide to finish). Because of COVID, it is becoming extremely difficult to find shadowing opportunities. I will be able to shadow at my new volunteer position, but this is very narrow and I would like to broaden my experience a little to understand what it takes to be a physician in other settings and specialties. I plan on doing a structured, 1 year, post-bacc at CU Boulder which will allow me to get all my prereqs in and prepare me to take the MCAT.

My problem is this: do I 1) finish the 3-year leadership program, then do the post-bacc, or 2) cut it off early, risking that I haven’t done enough EC’s to solidify my expectations and also get accepted into medical school?

Here is a little timeline for the three options I have thought about (please feel free to suggest other ideas if you have any).

1. I start the post-bacc ASAP in May of 2021, putting me at 2023 to begin medical school. This option inherits the most risk, as I will have a maximum of 250 clinical volunteering hours with an unknown amount of shadowing. I will try to shadow during the post-bacc, but I’m not sure if there will be time. I will continue to volunteer as much as possible as well during the post-bacc.
2. I start the post-bacc in May of 2022, putting me at 2024 to begin medical school. This will give me ample time to think about the decision and find good shadowing opportunities. At this point, I should have over 400 hours of consistent, clinical volunteering. However, I will be 2/3 of the way through the leadership program, which feels like a waste.
3. I start the post-bacc in May of 2023 after completing the leadership program and earning an MS in CS. This will also allow me to get plenty of volunteering and shadowing in, as well as save some $$$. The major downside being 2 extra years that I could be out practicing on the back-end.

Now, knowing my stats and the potential options, what do you all think would be best? What would you do? I am worried mostly about having enough experience (for acceptance and personal validation). I would also like to have a CS degree for future use in the medical school (automation, machine learning, research, etc.). I also run a donation-based photography company, which I see as a non-clinical EC.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I tried to “trim the fat” as much as I could. Any help or insight would be amazing. Thanks for reading!

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[Darrow O'Lykos]

May I ask for you to elaborate on your plans at CU-Boulder? Is it a SMP (special Master's program) meant for those wishing to apply to medical school? Do you plan on doing this while working? Often times, these 1 year programs won't allow you to carry a full-time job as well. Or do you just mean you're going to knock out the pre-reqs in a structured way over the next year while working (which also, that sounds like a lot if you're going through a leadership program that will also conclude in being awarded a Master's).

Your GPA is solid. Your #1 focus should be on preparing for the MCAT, which I understand you'll want to wait to do until after you've knocked out some of your pre-reqs. As an engineer, I imagine you already knocked out Physics during undergrad, right? So really, you just need to take 2 semesters of bio, 2 semesters of Chem, 2 semesters of O-Chem, and a maybe 1-3 more upper level biology courses.

The leadership program sounds cool, but in all honesty it won't be a big enough reason to delay knocking out your pre-reqs and studying for/taking the MCAT. Obviously I don't have the insight you do into the nature and depth of it, but 3 years for a Master's in CS, just to then go straight into 4 years of med school and 3+ years of residency sounds like a lot. Could you see yourself trying to expand your interest in CS in medicine without the MS degree? There are a lot of certificate programs designed for healthcare professionals to become well-versed in different types of CS to incorporate into their clinical practice.

In either case, you should take Bio 1 and Chem 1 this Fall, Bio 2 and Chem 2 this Spring, and O-Chem next Summer, with either Genetics or studying for the MCAT next summer and taking it August 2021. Depending on how you're feeling leading up to it, you could possibly apply next summer, and knock out some upper level biology courses the following Fall and Spring prior to matriculation. Yes, having already completed these courses prior to MCAT prep are helpful, but you can certainly perform highly on the MCAT with Just Bio1&2, Chem1&2, Ochem, and your physics background, along with a rigorous and adequate study-schedule leading up to the exam.

 

[GreenDuck12]

My problem is this: do I 1) finish the 3-year leadership program, then do the post-bacc, or 2) cut it off early, risking that I haven’t done enough EC’s to solidify my expectations and also get accepted into medical school?

Here is a little timeline for the three options I have thought about (please feel free to suggest other ideas if you have any).

1. I start the post-bacc ASAP in May of 2021, putting me at 2023 to begin medical school. This option inherits the most risk, as I will have a maximum of 250 clinical volunteering hours with an unknown amount of shadowing. I will try to shadow during the post-bacc, but I’m not sure if there will be time. I will continue to volunteer as much as possible as well during the post-bacc.

There should be time to shadow during your postbac. Ideally, you want to hit around 50 hours to meet the recommended/required hours for some medical schools but it's alright if you don't make the mark. I anticipate, in light of covid-19, that there will be some leniency with regards to shadowing hours.

1. I start the post-bacc in May of 2022, putting me at 2024 to begin medical school. This will give me ample time to think about the decision and find good shadowing opportunities. At this point, I should have over 400 hours of consistent, clinical volunteering. However, I will be 2/3 of the way through the leadership program, which feels like a waste.

An increase of 150 volunteer hours isn't significant enough to warrant another year unless: 1. you want to continue working to save money and/or 2. you want to continue with the leadership program.

1. I start the post-bacc in May of 2023 after completing the leadership program and earning an MS in CS. This will also allow me to get plenty of volunteering and shadowing in, as well as save some $$$. The major downside being 2 extra years that I could be out practicing on the back-end.

You would need to do some cost benefit analysis regarding the amount of money you anticipate saving, how much in loans/interest that would offset vs what you anticipate earning on the other end of medical school. For these types of calculations, I recommend folks calculate using the average primary care salary instead of one of the uber competitive specialty salaries (too variable to predict who will break into those fields as evidenced by 60%+ of M1 students saying they are going for gen/ortho/neuro surg, derm, rads, etc)

As far as timeline, I am a little skeptical of the 1 year timeline for completing prereqs (you didn't mention how many you have) and taking the MCAT, and getting LoRs. I usually caution folks to anticipate setbacks and that things might take an additional year to get all the ducks in a row. Given your strong starting place, I would be conservative here to 1. preserve your excellent GPA and 2. do everything in your power to ensure a strong performance on the mcat.

 

[theonlytycrane]

I was basically you 6 years ago. I'm graduating and starting residency next July. Medicine is not worth it. Enjoy your career and life because at the end of the day medicine is just a job.

 

[emergencydancing]

I was basically you 6 years ago. I'm graduating and starting residency next July. Medicine is not worth it. Enjoy your career and life because at the end of the day medicine is just a job.

Would you say you regretted going to medical school?

 

[theonlytycrane]

Would you say you regretted going to medical school?

1000% yes. PM me if you need to. If I can save 1 poor soul from the awfulness of "medical education" then maybe it was all worthwhile.

 

[AB92]

I'm currently an engineer as well (6 years out of school), planning to apply next cycle (2021-2022)- I'm not in your exact position, but I can share a little bit about my experience and how I've gone about managing everything.

I began pursuing medical school about a year and a half ago, taking pre-reqs, gaining clinical experience, and shadowing. However, I still had to (and still am) continuing to work full time. I have done all my classes at night, volunteering on weekends, and used PTO to do my shadowing. This entire time, I have made sure to not ever mention anything to my employer, as even if I am accepted to start in Fall of 2022, I still need a job for the next 2 years! Your earliest option is to start the post-bacc May 2021. That gives you an entire year between now and then to gain volunteering experience and (maybe) shadowing on nights, weekends, or use some PTO. Once you're in the post-bacc, I would imagine that they will have opportunities to gain the shadowing experience. That is also another year to gain hours for volunteering and shadowing. You wouldn't be applying until 2022, and if by then shadowing is still extremely hard to come by due to COVID, etc. you will be in the same boat as many other pre-meds who are starting college now and applying at the same time.

Are you hesitant though to begin the post-bacc program without the shadowing experience because you don't want to jump in with both feet without more experiences to be confident that this is what you want to do?

 

[blue.jay]

I was basically you 6 years ago. I'm graduating and starting residency next July. Medicine is not worth it. Enjoy your career and life because at the end of the day medicine is just a job.

This! Most doctors (including me) are hoping for a way out. I would easily choose Computer science if I can go back in time. Medicine is not all the glamorous from what you see and hear.

 

[crazyotter]

1000% yes. PM me if you need to. If I can save 1 poor soul from the awfulness of "medical education" then maybe it was all worthwhile.

I will PM you

 

[emergencydancing]

This! Most doctors (including me) are hoping for a way out. I would easily choose Computer science if I can go back in time. Medicine is not all the glamorous from what you see and hear.

I have to ask though, did you originally go into it mostly for money and prestige? This tends to be the #1 reason I hear about people who regret the decision, and that they didn't know enough about it. That's also why now they make it a lot more competitive than it used to be and you have to prove that you know what you're getting yourself into by jumping through more hoops and shadowing doctors.

 

[blue.jay]

I have to ask though, did you originally go into it mostly for money and prestige? This tends to be the #1 reason I hear about people who regret the decision, and that they didn't know enough about it. That's also why now they make it a lot more competitive than it used to be and you have to prove that you know what you're getting yourself into by jumping through more hoops and shadowing doctors.

Didn't choose either for money or prestige. I thought I'll be helping people in a scientific way everyday. In the end it's just any other job. Most of us feel like a cog in a wheel. We use about 5-10% of what you learn in medschool and residency. You lose your young years and your health for this career and you see hospital administrators replacing you with midlevels with lesser education just because you are expensive. I am some one who cares less for money or prestige but I regret sacrificing my physical and mental health esp when I see that I'm not valued for my hard work.

 

[blue.jay]

Also, don't forget your standards are very high in this profession. Everyone expects you to be perfect from the start. Your boss, patients, lawyers and the public. We can't afford to make normal human mistakes even if you work 24 hr straight. Your undergrad, medschool, residency prestige. Your scores, your failures everything will impact your future. The job is not forgiving. Your personality, your social views, Previous malpractice suit, disciplinary records, substance abuse will haunt you for a long time.

 

[emergencydancing]

Interesting points. I'm curious, how can you explain why some physicians love their jobs and some don't (if not for the prestige/money factor)? The physicians I've talked to love their job--albeit it's a skewed sample of academic physicians who graduated from top schools. But they love the interacting with patients and feel like they're saving lives (and from shadowing them I see that as well).