England - Game Thread

[PippyPony]

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Would you expect a mod to take an action from an ambiguous source and say "OH HEY BY THE WAY A WOLF DID THIS"?

No. I wouldn’t expect that.

just kidding.

or am I....

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[WildZoo]

No. I wouldn’t expect that. But I think the post was pretty clear that the flip we got - z being village - was not the flip the shooter expected hence the text mentioning bad info/a leak. And that it’s JAMES BOND. Like cmon don’t ignore the info given to you.

Unless you are literally claiming the role, and I know you're not, I don't know why you're so convinced it had to come from a villager

 

[mkg323]

Unless you are literally claiming the role, and I know you're not, I don't know why you're so convinced it had to come from a villager

I’m not, I’ve talked about both scenarios but your failure to even consider it is what I don’t get.

 

[WildZoo]

I’m not, I’ve talked about both scenarios but your failure to even consider it is what I don’t get.

Does dwelling on a scenario that I don't think occured matter? I've already said that the affiliation of the vig isn't a major consideration in where I'm voting today. I'm not here to play devil's advocate against my own thought process in a scenario where at the end of the day, it doesn't change what I'm doing.

 

[mkg323]

In any case the affiliation of the vig does not play a major part in my vote for you. The fact is there are multiple people who have found reasons to find you wolfy, the one who was pushing it the hardest is now dead and flipped village (with an information role of some sort), and you were the counterwagon to a known villager. Do I strongly feel you are a wolf myself, top of my red list? No, I honestly don't. But I think there's a decent argument for it, and I think this situation needs to be resolved sooner rather than later.

So vig affiliation aside,
Your points are that other people think I’m wolfy (from D2)
And that Z was village, and I was in a tie with someone, who people thought was wolfy, who flipped village. No one wins when 2 villagers are tied. Don’t forget Samac picked me for a reason.
These things don’t make me a wolf.
Ive been trying to resolve things all day cycle, with little response. People are so stuck on this they aren’t wolf hunting any more, talk about z and I have taken up the whole cycle. Don’t you think it’s weird?

 

[mkg323]

@alleycat03 youve been liking my posts, anything you’d like to contribute, or are you going to keep lurking?

 

[alleycat03]

@alleycat03 youve been liking my posts, anything you’d like to contribute, or are you going to keep lurking?

I’m feeling pretty conflicted. I don’t think you’re a wolf, but it seems like almost everyone else disagrees with me.

I know Samac believed you, and while she didn’t tell me your role specifically, I feel inclined to believe it because I trust her.

 

[WildZoo]

So vig affiliation aside,
Your points are that other people think I’m wolfy (from D2)
And that Z was village, and I was in a tie with someone, who people thought was wolfy, who flipped village. No one wins when 2 villagers are tied. Don’t forget Samac picked me for a reason.
These things don’t make me a wolf.
Ive been trying to resolve things all day cycle, with little response. People are so stuck on this they aren’t wolf hunting any more, talk about z and I have taken up the whole cycle. Don’t you think it’s weird?

I'm not saying being in a tie with someone makes you a wolf. I'm saying it's another reason why your flip would be informative, in addition to the other reasons why you may be a wolf (reads from people who I'm village reading and from a flipped villager who received encoded messages about enemies). And I know why samac picked you. I told her at the time it wasn't and shouldn't be enough to sway anyone's read on you.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 3 - Am I Sitting in a Tin Can - Vote Tally

Dina (0) -
Bread (3) - mkg, AM, Cyndia
Sunshine (2) - DocE, LIS
Cray (0) -
MKG (6) - Dina, capri, barks, Dubz, genny, Stagg
Barks (1) - Bobloblaw
Finn (1) - samac
Alissa (1) - Sporty
LIS (1) - Sunshine
Capri (1) - Finn

@mkg323 you are in the lead
16/22 players voting
Voting closes in 3.5 hours

 

[WildZoo]

But hey, let's keep things interesting

Unyeet mkg yeet bread

 

[alleycat03]

You know what, nothing I’ve seen during this cycle has convinced me that Finn isn’t a wolf. I remain very unconvinced to her response to my reasoning last cycle as to why I don’t think she’s a villager.

I’m also trusting our silenced PM, because I know she is probably screaming from the past telling us to listen to her. If Samac is a wolf, then yeah I’ll eat an enchilada hat too

Yeet Finn

 

[alleycat03]

I could also go for bread, because he’s been very quiet and pretty much every time he’s a villager, he puts in more effort than this. I’m not talking about just the quantity of posts, I’m talking about the quality. He usually contributes more substance when he’s here, even if he’s busy. Even after catching up, his reads list felt very underwhelming, and I’m not sure why MsP is his only wolf read?

 

[WildZoo]

I am very that sunshine said she was trying to resolve whether zenge or mkg was a wolf, zenge flipped village, and now she's voting for LIS instead.

 

[finnickthedog]

I remain very unconvinced to her response to my reasoning last cycle as to why I don’t think she’s a villager.

I literally don't recall responding to you.

 

[finnickthedog]

I remain very unconvinced to her response to my reasoning last cycle as to why I don’t think she’s a villager.

I literally don't recall responding to you.

I found it. Forgot that was to you.

I've got nothing else to say to you about it though. Your reasoning was bad.

For example, you claimed that I've only focused on alissa and that's demonstrably false but like, okay.

 

[alleycat03]

Well sure, that definitely makes sense as an explanation for why you would miss things. But Cray suggested that she thought the types of things a person might miss could change depending on their affiliation and I was interested in more thoughts on that. But she doesn't seem to know quite how to apply that to this situation anyways.


This gets my goat. Seriously. Do not repeatedly argue with me (and by this I do not mean you directly) about my play style and then criticize me for having a lot of posts that were a response to that. I'd be happy to not spend so much time defending the way I play. But if people are going to argue with me about it... it's not reasonable to expect me not to respond.

As to the rest of this, I'm really glad the rest of you have crystal balls and are utterly confident in your reads after a single day of play... I'm not.

Though my thoughts have been brief I'm pretty sure I've touched on DocE, AM, MsP, samac, and April before she died. No one has responded or asked for elaboration.

The main reason I've mentioned alissa multiple times is because she disappeared. Do you disagree with my reasoning for being suspicious of her in the first place? If so, let's talk about that rather than just complaining that I'm tunnelling.

I also gave some thoughts on samac's theory. No response to that either.

I've engaged with several people today asking questions and investigating how I feel about certain people. I really resent being told that I'm not playing the game.

@finnickthedog this was your response to me.

And, by the way I’m not trying to attack you for having a different belief when it comes to sharing village reads. I’ve looked through your posts again and I feel like they are similar contributions to what I make when I am a wolf trying to appear village. Contributing, but not saying a ton that hasn’t already been touched on, and not sharing anything new or groundbreaking. To be fair, I’ve never played with you, so maybe it’s just the unfamiliarity I’m picking up on and you’re not a wolf. I just genuinely think you are the best candidate for the sheriff role. If you aren’t the sheriff, then AM is, and I feel better about her being village than you right now.

 

[Stagg737]

My POE (in no particular order)
Bread, Stagg, DocE, Cyndia, Finn, Dina

This seems weak, maybe I missed it but reasoning for Finn and Dina?

The only possible explanation for why she thinks she deserves village points for wolf reading someone who hasn’t actually flipped is if she knows for a fact that MKG is a wolf.

Disagree, I can think of several other reasons, some innocent, some sketch.

I don’t think it’s AM, I have a strong village read on her.

Why? You've probably answered this, but link to quote would be appreciated if easy to find.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 3 - Am I Sitting in a Tin Can - Vote Tally

Dina (0) -
Bread (4) - mkg, AM, Cyndia, dubz
Sunshine (2) - DocE, LIS
Cray (0) -
MKG (5) - Dina, capri, barks, genny, Stagg
Barks (1) - Bobloblaw
Finn (2) - samac, alley
Alissa (1) - Sporty
LIS (1) - Sunshine
Capri (1) - Finn

@mkg323 you are in the lead
17/22 players voting
Voting closes in 3 hours

 

[WildZoo]

Disagree, I can think of several other reasons, some innocent, some sketch.



Why? You've probably answered this, but link to quote would be appreciated if easy to find.

First you vote for the dead and now you're talking to them, smh

 

[alleycat03]

I found it. Forgot that was to you.

I've got nothing else to say to you about it though. Your reasoning was bad.

For example, you claimed that I've only focused on alissa and that's demonstrably false but like, okay.

When I looked (granted, just a quick glance since I’m on mobile right now), I didn’t see you suspect/wolf read anyone besides Alissa, and before her April. I do see the posts where you mentioned DocE and MsP, but you weren’t wolf reading either of them. Your more recent posts make me feel a bit better, because I share similar thoughts about Capri and Bread.

 

[mkg323]

This seems weak, maybe I missed it but reasoning for Finn and Dina?



Disagree, I can think of several other reasons, some innocent, some sketch.



Why? You've probably answered this, but link to quote would be appreciated if easy to find.

Z is dead so your not gonna get a response. werent you on earlier?? I feel like you should know this

 

[finnickthedog]

@finnickthedog this was your response to me.

And, by the way I’m not trying to attack you for having a different belief when it comes to sharing village reads. I’ve looked through your posts again and I feel like they are similar contributions to what I make when I am a wolf trying to appear village. Contributing, but not saying a ton that hasn’t already been touched on, and not sharing anything new or groundbreaking. To be fair, I’ve never played with you, so maybe it’s just the unfamiliarity I’m picking up on and you’re not a wolf. I just genuinely think you are the best candidate for the sheriff role. If you aren’t the sheriff, then AM is, and I feel better about her being village than you right now.

Who questioned alissa about something she said before I did? Who questioned capri's string of posts after the shot today before I did? Pretty sure, I had my own opinion on the validity of Vis theory about MsP possibly 3P hunting. To name a few things that I can think of off the top of my head.

People have, for the most part, ignored my original thoughts but I don't know why you're acting like I've never had one.

 

[finnickthedog]

When I looked (granted, just a quick glance since I’m on mobile right now), I didn’t see you suspect/wolf read anyone besides Alissa, and before her April. I do see the posts where you mentioned DocE and MsP, but you weren’t wolf reading either of them. Your more recent posts make me feel a bit better, because I share similar thoughts about Capri and Bread.

And wolf reads are the only way to contribute? Part of figuring out who is a wolf is figuring out who definitely isn't. I mean geez there was a whole argument about the value of sharing village reads on thread but now you're kind of implying that the only reads that matter/can be considered contributory are wolf reads and anything else I said doesn't count?

I also questioned Dina today, because a comment she made could have been sketch to me but her explanation was satisfying. That may not have been an "oh, here's a read" but it was an attempt to game solve.

I've similarly questioned other people to try and get information that helps me put my thoughts together.

 

[alleycat03]

Also just going to point out that Samac switched her vote from Cray to Finn.

Anyway, I am tempted to sheep Samac's vote today because I think the fact that she's silenced gives strong village points (with a heavy asterisk here that I don't really want to explain right now). I'm also thinking Zenge/Sunny is w/v but not sure who is who. And of course considering voting MKG, as stated above.

I’m also fairly confident that Samac is a villager, but why does her silencing give her village points?

if no one claims the shot by morning i'm switching my vote to sunny and/or investigating z's potential pm partners

Are you going to do this?

I don’t understand why they didn’t shoot D1.

I’m not going to lie, the choice to shoot Zenge is really odd to me too. I’m still not sure why you think somebody should use their shot day 1, since statistically, isn’t the chance of hitting a villager much higher? Like what if somebody shoots the village seer accidentally on day 1?

I 100% think that shot was wolfy. You don't (as a villager) take a midday shot on someone nobody is even voting for imo.

I agree with this. Unless it was a villager with some serious vendetta against Zenge, and they just had to flip him. I don’t know, maybe he did uncover information about the wolves, and the wolves decided he was too great of a risk to have around.

I don't think genny mentioned any 007 flavoring on her end though? so I wouldn't assume it was the same role without any evidence to suggest that

@genny did your message about the night shot taken at you have any flavoring that would suggest it was done by James Bond?

After reading this again I'm wondering if it was passive

Does this mean that Z wouldn’t have to do anything to receive the information, it would just be up to him to decipher it each day? My reflection ability in the noob game was passive, but I only got night results when somebody tried to act on me.

 

[sunshinefl]

I am very that sunshine said she was trying to resolve whether zenge or mkg was a wolf, zenge flipped village, and now she's voting for LIS instead.

I said that they weren’t compatible pack mates. Not I was voting one or the other. And that was in response to Z trying to pressure me to vote mkg to appease him, and then you trying to pressure me to make A vote. I’m not a person to jump when someone tells me to jump. And I can still re-evaluate and change my vote. And after that, LIS did his same lame pop in and vote for me and then pop off.

 

[mkg323]

This seems weak, maybe I missed it but reasoning for Finn and Dina?

Finn is there because I'm inclined to believe the Sheriff tinfoil that Samac and SAR came up with. Which means that either Finn or AM is a wolf. I have AM in my neutrals still but I have seen more pro-village posts from her than Finn, who I dont really remember doing much wolf hunting besides Alissa, who I'm village leaning. For Dina its stuff like you actually mentioned earlier, and I think while shes been more active compared to say bread, shes still sheeped arguments, and I think her tone in some of her posts is off.

I've been trying to engage with the people trying to yeet me and defend myself, and while I'm not some amazing debater I'd like to think I've made some points over this cycle as to why I shouldn't be yeeted. But people are all stuck on things from other cycles, or that Z is now dead, which has nothing to do with me. At this point the main argument is that my flip would give info? All its going to tell you is that im a villager, who tied with a villager, and my vote got pushed by a villager. No thanks, I'd rather be alive and actually wolf hunt.

 

[finnickthedog]

Yes

I missed this (that samac told you what mkg claimed). Sorry for making you repeat yourself, but what did you say about it?

Also as a side note... have I ever played a past game in which you were a wolf because I am having the darnedest time trying to recall what you even sound like when wolfing.

 

[sunshinefl]

Where is everyone? I feel it’s like 8 people here today

 

[Animal Midwife]

Where is everyone? I feel it’s like 8 people here today

They're going to show up at 8:45 as per usual.

 

[WildZoo]

I missed this (that samac told you what mkg claimed). Sorry for making you repeat yourself, but what did you say about it?

Also as a side note... have I ever played a past game in which you were a wolf because I am having the darnedest time trying to recall what you even sound like when wolfing.

Just that it shouldn't, imo, be enough to sway anyone either way. Could be true, could be a cover, and there is zero way to confirm it outside of seering.

And I'm not sure... @Animal Midwife?

 

[WildZoo]

Does this mean that Z wouldn’t have to do anything to receive the information, it would just be up to him to decipher it each day? My reflection ability in the noob game was passive, but I only got night results when somebody tried to act on me.

That's my interpretation but take it with a grain of salt. Just my reading of the flip.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Just that it shouldn't, imo, be enough to sway anyone either way. Could be true, could be a cover, and there is zero way to confirm it outside of seering.

And I'm not sure...@Animal Midwife?

It's definitely happened as my first game had you and finn playing.

I'll look to see if there's a more recent reference though.

 

[WildZoo]

I said that they weren’t compatible pack mates. Not I was voting one or the other. And that was in response to Z trying to pressure me to vote mkg to appease him, and then you trying to pressure me to make A vote. I’m not a person to jump when someone tells me to jump. And I can still re-evaluate and change my vote. And after that, LIS did his same lame pop in and vote for me and then pop off.

So did you change your mind about mkg then?

 

[sunshinefl]

That's my interpretation but take it with a grain of salt. Just my reading of the flip.

It seemed like a puzzle he had to make effort to solve, or at least that’s what I thought.

So did you change your mind about mkg then?

No she’s still on my list and I could go there. Especially since I don’t fully trust samac which seems to be one of people’s main reasons against it. Bread has been there a long time too. Dina and Capri are in my maybe wolf side of neutral. There seems to be little push back today against mkg or bread though, besides mkg defending herself. So I don’t know if im just correct on both of them, or the quiet today means that the wolves are satisfied.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Just that it shouldn't, imo, be enough to sway anyone either way. Could be true, could be a cover, and there is zero way to confirm it outside of seering.

And I'm not sure... @Animal Midwife?

Alright, most recently was Safari. Ironic since that one's been brought up multiple times this game.

 

[Stagg737]

Who is Stagg?

Probably your daddy in the universe where I was more active in WW for the past 4 months.

A lot of cross support and likes between the Cray/DoCE/Sunny block

Can you explain the cross-support between DocE and Sunny, because this makes me feel like you're just throwing statements out there

Stagg is village read

This read is weird.

Those are the same thing.

I'll re-phrase it. Do you have them as neutral because you don't see any useful info, or do you see enough info to lean them sketch or village, but the info cancels out?

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'll re-phrase it. Do you have them as neutral because you don't see any useful info, or do you see enough info to lean them sketch or village, but the info cancels out?

Both.

 

[Barkley13]

I know Samac believed you, and while she didn’t tell me your role specifically, I feel inclined to believe it because I trust her.

So what do you think of this now that dubz has said two or three times that her role isn’t really AI?

 

[SportPonies]

Day 3 - Am I Sitting in a Tin Can - Vote Tally

Bread (4) - mkg, AM, Cyndia, dubz
MKG (5) - Dina, capri, barks, genny, Stagg

Hmmmmm samac isn't here to yell at me......

 

[Stagg737]

I guess my thinking was if he did look into her and she got a notification, they may have figured it was him since he was pushing her hardest, and maybe it was better to get rid of him and sacrifice making her look worse than to risk another woof being looked at.

But that's making a lot of assumptions. We don't even know if he looked into her. I just want to know if he was right at this point, and I think that plus the possibility of mechanical reasons, plus the clarity it'll bring to the previous vote cycle makes it worth it.

If this is true then that was awful timing by the wolves. I would hope that at least one of them would have been smarter than that. Only exception being if MKG and Bread are both wolves.

What has me leaning village on this is the timing. This was technically done pretty early in the day cycle, and after a lot of people had taken some kind of a stand. I don't understand why a wolf vig would have had this timing. I guess there could be a wolf vig stuck with a day shot.

This along with the write-up suggest very strongly that this was a non-wolf vig.

Like really if it is a wolf vig they could have shot zenge so there would be a bigger push to yeet you (mkg) and then if you flip village we go right back to bread because of the timing, and then hey maybe he's village too. Like 3 for 1 village kill special. I am not saying that's impossible, I'm saying it's a lot to try to think about and I don't know if there is a way forward from here without there continuing to be suspicion on you. I'd rather resolve that now than take that mystery to endgame.

I'm honestly don't see how this would be be beneficial as a wolf vig in anyway and would be a complete waste. Idk if your brains are a bit scrambled and you need a break, if you're really just missing how stupid of a decision this would be for the wolves in essentially all situations, or if you're trying to PW. I'm hoping it's not the last, but you're sliding further into the sketchbook.

And what do you think about this being a village vig kill? Am I still needed to flip? I’d like to think I’m more useful to everyone alive than dead, and I’m still convinced bread is a wolf

How convinced?

I think it's not. If it is, I don't think it has much to do with your affiliation at all, since they wouldn't have known it.

What makes you lean so heavily that this is a wolf vig? Because everything I see screams non-wolf.

 

[WildZoo]

I'm honestly don't see how this would be be beneficial as a wolf vig in anyway and would be a complete waste. Idk if your brains are a bit scrambled and you need a break, if you're really just missing how stupid of a decision this would be for the wolves in essentially all situations, or if you're trying to PW. I'm hoping it's not the last, but you're sliding further into the sketchbook.

I love the "you're either dumb or you're a wolf" argument but either you didn't actually read that post or you missed the point entirely. Please explain to me how it would be dumb for a wolf vig to shoot a widely village-read villager at a time that could easily lead to two misvotes?

 

[WildZoo]

What makes you lean so heavily that this is a wolf vig? Because everything I see screams non-wolf.

Could be 3p. I'm saying I don't think it was a village move, my brain goes to wolf first but I'd be surprised if there's no 3p here, so I'll allow for that. If you'd like to explain why a villager would midday shoot someone who very few people were suspicious of and who had zero votes, I'm all ears.

 

[holdthemayo]

Can you explain the cross-support between DocE and Sunny, because this makes me feel like you're just throwing statements out there

It was discussed extensively on the first few days of the game. From what I can tell you've missed as much of this game as I have, so it's possible that you missed it.

Sunny was defending DocE at a time when noone else was and he didn't deserve it. It was out of character for her. All three were pretty lock step with opinions for a while there. I'm not going to go and ISO posts because I'll be lucky if I can keep up with the thread.

I was hoping to push to sunny wagon today to see if DocE would stick with it, but the Zenge shot happened and I've been working until now.

 

[holdthemayo]

Probably your daddy in the universe where I was more active in WW for the past 4 months.

Wouldn't be the first dad who was absent for most of my life

 

[Stagg737]

I love the "you're either dumb or you're a wolf" argument but either you didn't actually read that post or you missed the point entirely. Please explain to me how it would be dumb for a wolf vig to shoot a widely village-read villager at a time that could easily lead to two misvotes?

Because they didn't need to shoot Zenge for it to easily lead to two misvotes? If they knew Zenge's ability, then I could accept it as a wolf kill. Otherwise it makes no sense regardless of Bread's or MKG's affiliation to shoot with that much time before vote close when that would be so much more advantageous.

It was discussed extensively on the first few days of the game. From what I can tell you've missed as much of this game as I have, so it's possible that you missed it.

Sunny was defending DocE at a time when noone else was and he didn't deserve it. It was out of character for her. All three were pretty lock step with opinions for a while there. I'm not going to go and ISO posts because I'll be lucky if I can keep up with the thread.

I was hoping to push to sunny wagon today to see if DocE would stick with it, but the Zenge shot happened and I've been working until now.

Ah, forgot about that and that you were pretty behind. Fair then.

 

[sunshinefl]

It was discussed extensively on the first few days of the game. From what I can tell you've missed as much of this game as I have, so it's possible that you missed it.

Sunny was defending DocE at a time when noone else was and he didn't deserve it. It was out of character for her. All three were pretty lock step with opinions for a while there. I'm not going to go and ISO posts because I'll be lucky if I can keep up with the thread.

I was hoping to push to sunny wagon today to see if DocE would stick with it, but the Zenge shot happened and I've been working until now.

Dear god. Mayo I know you jumped in late, but I NEVER defended Doc E. Not once. I just sat back and didn’t defend Shorty. That’s it.

 

[Stagg737]

First you vote for the dead and now you're talking to them, smh

It's a Pippy game. I'm still trying to smoke that grass cross and apparently it's still not working...

 

[WildZoo]

Because they didn't need to shoot Zenge for it to easily lead to two misvotes? If they knew Zenge's ability, then I could accept it as a wolf kill. Otherwise it makes no sense regardless of Bread's or MKG's affiliation to shoot with that much time before vote close when that would be so much more advantageous.

Please tell this to wolf vigs in previous games who have used their shots midday

 

[Stagg737]

Please tell this to wolf vigs in previous games who have used their shots midday

I didn't say a mid-day *wolf* vig was stupid (though it probably is most of the time). I said THIS mid-day vig was poorly thought out and inefficient if it is from the wolves.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Because they didn't need to shoot Zenge for it to easily lead to two misvotes? If they knew Zenge's ability, then I could accept it as a wolf kill. Otherwise it makes no sense regardless of Bread's or MKG's affiliation to shoot with that much time before vote close when that would be so much more advantageous.

You don't see a reason someone's who widely village read might be preferable for a daykill over a nightkill?