English second language. low verbal score. help...?

[10rin20]

Hello

I've been reading SDN threads for MCAT study strategies but I feel like I need some advice myself so I decided to join this network and make my first post!

I started studying for the MCAT in June (I took the Princeton Review Hyperlearning Course, which ended on 8/16).
My test is scheduled for 9/6/12 (11 more days! )

I've been studying 10+ hours every day and I've improved my PS and BS scores. Although I could do better, I constantly get 10+ scores on both sections.
HOWEVER, my verbal scores are always very low when I take AAMC practice tests (I've taken aamc 3,9,10 and 11).
I get scores like 6 or 7
and today I took AAMC 9 and got a 3 (!) on verbal.

I've heard med schools require you to get at least 8 or 9 on verbal and they won't accept people with a low verbal score even if their overall scores are good.

My GPA isn't that high (3.7 to be accurate) so I need a GOOD MCAT score to be even competitive...
my goal is 33+ but it does not seem like it's possible right now since I still haven't broken 30 on practice tests...

I moved to the US about 6 years ago and English is my second language.
I know I can't use this as an excuse but I do think this is the main reason why I do poorly on verbal. I've read the Economist every day and done A LOT of passages. (I also did EK 1001 too). But I still have trouble understanding passages especially if the passages are about art, philosophy, or history.

So I figured I need more time to improve my verbal score and I'm planning to void the test on the actual day and take the test in January. (it's too late to postpone the test and I think it'll be good to experience what it's like) The reason why I decided to void my test even before taking it is because I heard med schools will look at all scores (good and bad). I thought it would be better to void it than to get a low score and give them more reasons to reject me.

I was wondering what I could use to improve my verbal score.
(I'll keep reviewing other subjects too)
I'm planning to keep reading the Economist every day and redo Princeton verbal workbook and EK 1001.
But I feel like I need to do more.
Are there any books I should read to improve my English comprehension skills?
or should I try a new Verbal practice book?

Also, are there any SDN members who are ESL students but did well on verbal?
I'm determined to improve my weakness and become a doctor since this is what I've wanted since I was in elementary school.
but I'd like to hear some success stories to motivate myself too


Any comment will be appreciated!

Thanks!

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[Ochempwnsme]

10rin20,

Don't take my info as gospel because it's secondhand but I have HEARD from former ad-com members at unnamed med schools that they will certainly consider and have accepted 7s in verbal from applicants for whom English is not their native language, if the science scores are solid (ideally at least 23 combined on the two science sections). The reason for this is simple. These former ad-coms that I have had conversations with about this understand that there are certain subtleties to English, like there are with any language, that make the verbal section more difficult for an ESL speaker with perfect fluency, let alone those that struggle a bit with the language. The admission offers, from what I gather, are a tacit acknowledgement that you would perform better on the MCAT verbal if it was given in your native language. Ad-coms are almost never as forgiving toward native English speakers, however, and these folks need to be looking at getting a 9+ in verbal unless their sciences are spectacular, i.e. 13+, in which case an 8 would probably be accepted. There are always exceptions, however, but there are definitely US MD schools that take your ESL status into account when examining your verbal score. I really feel for you ESL speakers having to deal with the verbal section, because it's hard enough for most native English speakers, but you guys have the language issue on top of that to contend with. I hope and think that an MD school somewhere will take it into account if you can score at least a 7 in verbal on the real thing with strong performances in the sciences. I would definitely consider mentioning this issue on secondaries when they ask you about academic issues, and detail the work you have put in to improving your verbal score.

Good luck to you, friend.

 

[10rin20]

Thank you for the reply!

I'm happy to hear that!
But won't they screen you out automatically if any of the scores on the mcat is below 8?

I hope I'll get a chance to mention the fact that English is not my first language before they do that... haha

Meanwhile, I'll do more studying and make sure I'll get high scores on the other two sections so my low verbal won't keep me from getting into med school!

thank you again!

 

[Hands4Surgery]

It's a tough thing. I also come from another country, and I am absolutely convinced that the VR section is significantly more difficult for non-native English speakers. This is easy to conceive when you think about it this way.

Figure, you are 24, and you moved to the U.S 6 years ago. Then you spent 18 years (75% of your life) learning, hearing, and reading another language, while you've only seen English 25% of your life, and perhaps half of that was spent just learning the language!

I'm sure admissions committees take this into account, but I also believe that your chances of admission decrease significantly with a low VR, regardless of your background. I really hope they have some type of systematic way of internally screening applications taking things like this into consideration.

 

[10rin20]

Thank you for the reply!

yeah... it's really tough...
But hopefully I'll get better by January...

I get 7's on most of the practice tests so if I could get a couple of more questions right consistently... I might be able to get a 9 on the real thing...

 

[Hands4Surgery]

If u are getting consistent sevens on your VR, there is no reason to void your scores, unless your sciences are weak

 

[runrunrudolph1]

Honestly, English is also my second language, and when I started my prep I was getting ~7s and by the end of my prep (over 300 verbal passages later with thorough analysis) I was at 11-12s! It can be done, so hang in there!

 

[Ochempwnsme]

Honestly, English is also my second language, and when I started my prep I was getting ~7s and by the end of my prep (over 300 verbal passages later with thorough analysis) I was at 11-12s! It can be done, so hang in there!

Over 300 verbal passages? Impressive as heck that you did that many, and congrats on the score increase! 11-12's are amazing in verbal and 11-12 from an ESL student IMO should honestly be given more weight than an 11-12 from a native English speaker. I'm just guesstimating here but probably 90% of the MCAT testtakers are native English speakers, and if you're beating out 90-95% of test-takers then you're scoring equal to or better than 9 out of 10 native English speakers. Absolutely incredible.

The EK 101 gives you 101 passages, the TPRH verbal workbook gives you 71 more, and the 8 AAMCs give you 56, so 228 total. You said you did over 300, so I assumed you used these resources because they're the best available. What other verbal resources did you use? TBR or Kaplan?

 

[10rin20]

If u are getting consistent sevens on your VR, there is no reason to void your scores, unless your sciences are weak

Oh I meant to say that I get 7's often but I do get lower scores (from 3-6) so I don't feel quite ready for the test, especially since people say the actual MCAT passages are harder than the practice ones. and I'm aiming for at least 8-9 on VR.

and I don't think my PS and BS scores are high enough to compensate for my verbal score (getting scores somewhere in between 10 and 12, and a few 9's)

Honestly, English is also my second language, and when I started my prep I was getting ~7s and by the end of my prep (over 300 verbal passages later with thorough analysis) I was at 11-12s! It can be done, so hang in there!

Wow that's really impressive! Congrats!
Do you mind sharing how you tackled the passages and how long you prepped for it?
I try to read fast and find the main point but I often end up getting lost.
and people say if you get the main point, you can answer most questions but I feel like most questions require you to answer based on the small details in the passages.
and I miss tiny details because I try to read fast...

 

[Cptn Loko]

I try to read fast and find the main point but I often end up getting lost.
and people say if you get the main point, you can answer most questions but I feel like most questions require you to answer based on the small details in the passages.
and I miss tiny details because I try to read fast...

English is also my second language, but I have been lucky enough to have been scoring consistently around 11 in Verbal. If you are finishing on time or with time leftover, it may help to slow down your reading so that you are not speeding through the passage and can get a better understanding of it.

I try to quickly formulate a summary of the main points or attitudes the author had as I go along in the passage, and that usually seems sufficient for answering most questions.

 

[10rin20]

English is also my second language, but I have been lucky enough to have been scoring consistently around 11 in Verbal. If you are finishing on time or with time leftover, it may help to slow down your reading so that you are not speeding through the passage and can get a better understanding of it.

I try to quickly formulate a summary of the main points or attitudes the author had as I go along in the passage, and that usually seems sufficient for answering most questions.

how long do you spend to read each passage??
I allow myself 8 minutes for each passage (4min for reading and 4min for questions)
maybe I should slow down a little so I can understand the content more...

but getting 11's is really great! I wish I could do that
good luck studying!!

 

[Temperature101]

I have major issue with VR as well. I am scoring 9-10 in BS/PS but I have yet to score an 8 in VR except for EK 101. Hoping to get a 7 in VR and double digit scores in BS and PS. I think DO schools wil be more forgiven than MD if my overall score is above 27.

 

[10rin20]

good luck!

 

[On a Mission]

Okay I am not the typical, person who post on SDN because it will only make discourage. Here is the truth I am so sure I can be one of the best doctors, and I have never gotten above a 25 on my FL practice test. English is my second language so verbal highest I ever got was a 9 some how but other than that I get 3,6,5,7, more on the 6 side.

I do work extremely hard I am not just a person that test well, so Bs i get 8-9 always, Ps improved lots and get 8-9 verbal is the thing keeping me down.

Point is do not be discourage, look I am dumb to be even apply next year, but if I get my 30 or 26+ i am going for it. I believe in miracles, in good people and all those bla bla things. I personally know many people who are in good schools and got 27's. Please do not step down and start over later or whatever, you will get in a mEd school sooner or later and from there just destroy your step 1 and you are golden. The MCAT its just an excuse for them to hear your story, and thats when you explain why you are the way you are and why you would make the best doctor. Trust me they would never turn someone down for a verbal score. You might think you are a number but we are so much more, thats why there is a personal statement and letters of recommendations.

Hope I make any sense, I am ready to fail but will get up and continue trying, please do what you think is best, but I just had to shine some light in were there was only darkness.

Wish you all the best and luck there isnt any (We are a product of our efforts) your efforts my get you a 36 my effort might only get me a 30 but we all did our best ! That is what counts. What you learned in the process.

 

[10rin20]

On a Mission,

Thank you for your inspirational post!
Yeah I feel that verbal is holding me back too but I believe I can overcome this.
I'm not even close to giving up! I just need a little more time to prep than I thought

and it's true that sometimes I get scared and think "can I really do this?" (especially after hearing about people whose GPA and MCAT score are great and yet didn't get accepted. really discouraging...)
but people like you motivate me and I go back to "Yes I can! I will do this!"
Everyone is different and has weakness in different areas. Mine just happened to be English.

I hope we'll both become doctors!
the best of luck to you

 

[gtbROX]

If anything, adcoms would and should be more sympathetic towards your situation. Numerous people, including myself, get low scores on verbal with English being our primary languages so they should be more lenient towards you. I recommend that you really embellish your sciences though; aim as high as possible with those since they probably want to see high sciences to make up for lackluster verbal.

 

[10rin20]

I'll try! thank you!

 

[angldrps]

I don't know where you are getting your info from because a 3.7 IS a very high GPA.

 

[10rin20]

My friend knows a guy who is on admission board and he said 3.8+ GPA is competitive so I thought my GPA was too low... and I've seen statistics on average GPA/MCAT and it's over 3.7 for a lot of schools.... so I guess I'm on the borderline but I don't really have outstanding volunteer/clinical experience. That's why I feel I need a very high MCAT score to stand out.

Average GPA/MCAT for reference
http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/downloads/gpamcat.pdf

 

[gtbROX]

My friend knows a guy who is on admission board and he said 3.8+ GPA is competitive so I thought my GPA was too low... and I've seen statistics on average GPA/MCAT and it's over 3.7 for a lot of schools.... so I guess I'm on the borderline but I don't really have outstanding volunteer/clinical experience. That's why I feel I need a very high MCAT score to stand out.

Average GPA/MCAT for reference
http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/downloads/gpamcat.pdf

If anything, "average" premed students are less desirable to adcoms. I was talking to two second year uci med students who have served on UCI med school's adcom, and they said that in their class, they know few people who were perfectly in the average stats (3.6-3.8, 32-34). Most of the students had something about their stat that was really good, and the other weren't too bad, like high gpa or high mcat, or they did something unique/spectacular/etc as an EC. Get yourself involved in clinical internship/volunteering program, and dedicate time to it. But as you go through, make sure you're constantly learning and seeing things; be assertive. The guys I talked to said that your application needs to be a story/journey versus a grocery list to get into a top tier med school. But again, "top tier med school", you don't need to go to one for an M.D. degree. There are plenty of good ones that aren't as competitive.

 

[10rin20]

If anything, "average" premed students are less desirable to adcoms. I was talking to two second year uci med students who have served on UCI med school's adcom, and they said that in their class, they know few people who were perfectly in the average stats (3.6-3.8, 32-34). Most of the students had something about their stat that was really good, and the other weren't too bad, like high gpa or high mcat, or they did something unique/spectacular/etc as an EC. Get yourself involved in clinical internship/volunteering program, and dedicate time to it. But as you go through, make sure you're constantly learning and seeing things; be assertive. The guys I talked to said that your application needs to be a story/journey versus a grocery list to get into a top tier med school. But again, "top tier med school", you don't need to go to one for an M.D. degree. There are plenty of good ones that aren't as competitive.

I see...
I was planning to apply next year but should I delay it until I have a complete list of my clinical experience? I do have some experience like shadowing a doctor, volunteering at free mobile clinics, etc... but I'm planning to add more soon (once school starts in a few weeks). Do you think volunteering for something for a short period of time looks bad? (because I'll only have 8 months or so for the new programs if I'm applying next year)

and yeah but I haven't really tried for MD yet so we'll see
if no school seems to want me, then I'll start looking into other options!

thank you!

 

[gtbROX]

I see...
I was planning to apply next year but should I delay it until I have a complete list of my clinical experience? I do have some experience like shadowing a doctor, volunteering at free mobile clinics, etc... but I'm planning to add more soon (once school starts in a few weeks). Do you think volunteering for something for a short period of time looks bad? (because I'll only have 8 months or so for the new programs if I'm applying next year)

and yeah but I haven't really tried for MD yet so we'll see
if no school seems to want me, then I'll start looking into other options!

thank you!

Yes, another thing they mentioned to me was that no matter how many hours total an individual has of clinical experience (whatever kind) if they were accrued within a short amount of time like 400 hrs in a month or a summer (3 months) versus a year or longer, it looks extremely bad. I recommend finding a clinical program that is more rigid, that you will spend some time at weekly and stay with for at least half a year before you apply.

 

[10rin20]

Yes, another thing they mentioned to me was that no matter how many hours total an individual has of clinical experience (whatever kind) if they were accrued within a short amount of time like 400 hrs in a month or a summer (3 months) versus a year or longer, it looks extremely bad. I recommend finding a clinical program that is more rigid, that you will spend some time at weekly and stay with for at least half a year before you apply.

that's good news to me!
I'll still have time to build my resume!

thank you!

 

[vqvo186]

This is probably my first post on sdn. First, thank you for all the positive reply! It really gives me hope since English is my secondary language too. I have a quick question though. If you have a low VR score, how do you show the adcoms that you are a student with English as secondary language? Wouldn't a low VR score automatically fail your application?

 

[brood910]

This is probably my first post on sdn. First, thank you for all the positive reply! It really gives me hope since English is my secondary language too. I have a quick question though. If you have a low VR score, how do you show the adcoms that you are a student with English as secondary language? Wouldn't a low VR score automatically fail your application?

English is my second language as well.
It MIGHT help you explain your low score to some schools, but it wont really make a huge difference.
If you get below a 7, it will be a red flag regardless of what your first language is.

I was scoring 5-6 on VR when I first started studying for MCAT, but now I am scoring 8-10, which is a huge improvement for people like us imo. I wont really care as long as I get above 8 on VR as I am very confident on other sections.

The biggest problem I had was that I kept losing focus + getting lost while reading. After reading hundreds of these boring passages + some journals, I got used to them, and now I feel as if I like these passages (wtf).

Anyways, I just want to tell you to not get discouraged. Many of my friends are not native English speakers but they still got into medical schools.

If you have 6+ months left till your exam, strengthen your vocab. I've memorized about 1000 words for the past few weeks, and I think it helped me A LOT.

 

[vqvo186]

English is my second language as well.
It MIGHT help you explain your low score to some schools, but it wont really make a huge difference.
If you get below a 7, it will be a red flag regardless of what your first language is.

I was scoring 5-6 on VR when I first started studying for MCAT, but now I am scoring 8-10, which is a huge improvement for people like us imo. I wont really care as long as I get above 8 on VR as I am very confident on other sections.

The biggest problem I had was that I kept losing focus + getting lost while reading. After reading hundreds of these boring passages + some journals, I got used to them, and now I feel as if I like these passages (wtf).

Anyways, I just want to tell you to not get discouraged. Many of my friends are not native English speakers but they still got into medical schools.

If you have 6+ months left till your exam, strengthen your vocab. I've memorized about 1000 words for the past few weeks, and I think it helped me A LOT.

Thank you for your reply. Did you get accepted to medical school yet? I tried the first practice test and got a 29, hopefully I can pull it up >32 since my GPA is only decent

 

[brood910]

Thank you for your reply. Did you get accepted to medical school yet? I tried the first practice test and got a 29, hopefully I can pull it up >32 since my GPA is only decent

I am gonna apply this Summer.

 

[vqvo186]

Good luck to you! Did you do well on the MCAT, if you don't mind me asking?