Envision in trouble.

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EctopicFetus

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what will happen to their residencies. Article says years but no one really knows. Thoughts? Apparently their hca deal isn’t going well for them.

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My medical director was telling me envision might go bankrupt. Didn’t believe him until now, guess he was on to something.

Envision has a joint venture with HCA, if I’m not mistaken. I suspect the most likely scenario is HCA will kick out envision, and just take over the ED, turning everyone into hospital employees, and fund the residencies themselves.

Envision might go bankrupt, but HCA is flush with cash.
 
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After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.
 
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After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.

Better than Envision.
I currently work at an HCA/Envision shop.
I love my hospital (primarily the patients, but BITFD to Envision/HCA.)

EDIT: What we really need is the opinion of a medical student who knows some HCA docs and can tell us how well they are treated. Lol.
 
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Im against these companies, but bond rating agencies assign these all the time though. Just means that there is a high credit risk. Some reputable companies (ie Kohls) that are unlikely to go out of business have junk ratings.

To answer your question, if they did go bankrupt, then they’d probably just be scooped up by some PE firm or something and nothing would change
 
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CMGs main value proposition to a hospital is making it easy. Filling a schedule is hard. Call outs, leave of absence, quality initiatives etc. much easier to sign one contract- maybe write one stipend check and then move on to other things. Just like you could sometimes save money by hiring sub contractors along the way rather than just one general contractor doing a remodel even though it may cost 30-100% more. CMG basic model of make it easy and have good enough performance carried them for years though they are losing control of the narrative now as more hospitals have CMG experience for better or worse. They know quality is often not as good, profit generating practices are shady. And some may care.
 
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CMGs main value proposition to a hospital is making it easy. Filling a schedule is hard. Call outs, leave of absence, quality initiatives etc. much easier to sign one contract- maybe write one stipend check and then move on to other things. Just like you could sometimes save money by hiring sub contractors along the way rather than just one general contractor doing a remodel even though it may cost 30-100% more. CMG basic model of make it easy and have good enough performance carried them for years though they are losing control of the narrative now as more hospitals have CMG experience for better or worse. They know quality is often not as good, profit generating practices are shady. And some may care.

I mean, good answer.
The question was primarily rhetorical and generally sarcastic in tone; but that didn't carry well.

As if to say: "Dear God, Hospital... Could you have just put in a small amount of work and saved yourself giant headaches?? WHYY (sic) did you need them in the first place??"
 
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After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.
So much depends on the hospital.

Being an HCA W-2? Sweet lordy nonononononono. I'd want my USACS back, I think?

W-2 at my current rural hospital where I pulled overnight shifts with the CNO stepping in as my charge and starting IVs for me? If they can keep the doors open financially, I'm absolutely cool with that. (Of course, ideally they'd be able to fully staff with RNs and let the CNO sleep so she can do her day job, but that's also a national issue and a separate discussion.)

I think the distinction is whether the hospital is local-ish owned and otherwise has skin in the game.
 
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So much depends on the hospital.

Being an HCA W-2? Sweet lordy nonononononono. I'd want my USACS back, I think?

W-2 at my current rural hospital where I pulled overnight shifts with the CNO stepping in as my charge and starting IVs for me? If they can keep the doors open financially, I'm absolutely cool with that. (Of course, ideally they'd be able to fully staff with RNs and let the CNO sleep so she can do her day job, but that's also a national issue and a separate discussion.)

I think the distinction is whether the hospital is local-ish owned and otherwise has skin in the game.

I want my MTV.
 
I want my MTV.
Let's face it, by the late 90s VH1 was waaaay better. Once Headbanger's Ball and Yo! MTV Raps were off the air, Behind the Music (on VH1) was the best programming out there. Head & shoulders above TRL.
 
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I want my MTV.
Fun fact: a large amount of those lyrics are things that Mark Knopfler overheard an appliance store worker saying as the worker stood in front of a wall of TVs playing MTV. He apparently found the guy's comments so interesting that he asked for a pen and paper to start writing down direct quotes to include in Money For Nothing.
 
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Hopefully TH is next. We were "Bought" out by TH and it would be a sweet revenge to see them go under along with all of my past SDG Medical director partners who jumped to the Dark side. I would love to bump into one of them wanting a job with our group and I would do a hard NO.
 
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After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.
I used to think and still do believe than a CMG can run a shop better and pay docs better than a hospital can. Based on experience hospital leaders have no idea how to negotiate an Ed contract. Hospitals and their outpatient arms lazily negotiate a single rate or perhaps a few rates. The Ed reimbursement is like 150% of medicare at max At those sites. Now with the no surprises act maybe it’s a game changer?
i will also say knowing what various hospitals are doing across the us the have literally no idea on how to code Ed charts.
all that to say if a CMG collects $150/ pt a hospital would be well under 120. That has repercussions. On top of that hospitals usually do a terrible job being employers of physicians. kaiser may be the exception.
 
Im against these companies, but bond rating agencies assign these all the time though. Just means that there is a high credit risk. Some reputable companies (ie Kohls) that are unlikely to go out of business have junk ratings.

To answer your question, if they did go bankrupt, then they’d probably just be scooped up by some PE firm or something and nothing would change
@EctopicFetus, would like to hear your thoughts on this.

That said, I don’t think there’s much cause for optimism here, because if a CMG goes under, there are plenty of other players with deep pockets, none of them being EPs that actively work in the pit. Any of them would be too happy to step in and fill that void - be it private equity, other CMGs, or the hospital itself.
 
Residencies are HCAs, not Envision's unless I am mistaken. The JV that is referenced has a provision whereby HCA can take it over whenever they want. I don't know that straight employment is the panacea that some in the hospital industry think it is. It doesn't appear to have worked out in anesthesia in some markets (like in FL for example) where salaries, in anesthesia at least, are 25 -40% higher than they were before the systems there got into anesthesia employment. Subsidies and subsidy requests for the non-employed practices that remain have exceeded even this rate, however.

I'm not a fan of the Envisions of the world and believe they were very poorly managed in the past and likely still are but the marketplace now is brutal if you need anesthesia clinicians. I know EM is different but I'm gong to guess that any proposed alternative to Envision/TH, etc. is not going to support the ROI overhead of PE unless they have the ability to move payer rates up and labor costs down. Neither is going to happen.

More likely health systems will either go with hospital employment or assisting private practice groups to form without the baggage of the profit needs of PE or other non-clinical entities. The only "value" the former entities (PE-backed or as you guys call them "CMG") supposedly brought to the table was to keep the onerous management of physicians off the table for the hospital. Probably was never needed but certainly not true at this point in my opinion. My two cents from the anesthesia world.
 
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@EctopicFetus, would like to hear your thoughts on this.

That said, I don’t think there’s much cause for optimism here, because if a CMG goes under, there are plenty of other players with deep pockets, none of them being EPs that actively work in the pit. Any of them would be too happy to step in and fill that void - be it private equity, other CMGs, or the hospital itself.
Moodys serves to assist businesses with buying bonds. FWIW I have heard thru the grapevine over the past month or 2 that "all" (I doubt it is all) CMGs are in a cash crunch. The NSA is harming everyone. In the scoring of the legislation, they expected a drop of 8% in reimbursement for EM. Also, keep in mind volumes are down overall (each ED can be different), the COVID money has run out and inflation has run rampant.

So piece by piece these guys are having major cash flow issues. This isn't new for envision, they restructured their debt now 2x since Early 2020. This isn't the move of a health organization. Then note the NSA is designed to harm the CMGs. Cigna and BCBS have publicly stated they are going after these rates they pay. If you believe the mantra that CMGs have better contracts all the insurers have to do is terminate their contracts and they know their ceiling. So If Envision was getting $600/pt from BCBS (like in Florida) but their avg is $400 for that market, they go out of network with Envision and voila $400/pt is the top. Throw in on top of that the IDR process is broken, only about 5% of claims have been resolved and they are not taking on new cases right now because the government is so dumb they were surprised by the volume of IDR requests.

On top of that this is also money that impacts the cash flow of these businesses. This is how insurance squeezed and crushed a bunch of FSEDs in texas.

The real interesting thing here is that PE requires a heavy return in order to invest. Perhaps (I dont know) PE and investors say the returns arent there we will put our money elsewhere. That is my hope but who knows.

So thats my 2 cents on this. Im optimistic because CMGs failing is good for EM docs.

Note, APP just restructred their $500M in debt. The new investors refused to loan them money to finance buying up more practices.

One other important thing to note is that where interest rates go up and up and up, the cost to service (pay the interest) on these massive debt piles also makes these groups less solvent.
 
BITFD. Decentralize and localize, if this is still possible. Let a million flowers... hmm... emerge.

Let USACS fall next. Even at risk of equity to debt conversion in 2026.

CMG docs, wise up and get out, if you are able.
Ah, USACS. Where do I start?
My return to the board (Hi Apollyon) prompted by my SDG recently purchased by USACS.

USACS has left my group alone so far as we negotiated some special protections, but unclear if these will endure. They bought us out in a manner that all of our shares were converted to USACS shares, but a certain percentage vest over a few years.... fully vested mere months after the Apollo loan will be callable (coincidence? I think not).

Best case scenario:
USCAS leaves us alone and lets us continue to operate with very little interference or change. The economy recovers by 2026 and/or USACS does so well that the loan being called by Apollo is not a threat to endurance.

Worst case? USACS renegs on all the 'special protections' we negotiated before our vesting period is complete + USACS becomes junk rated and flounders (our shares then go to zero including those already vested at time of sale).

The truth, the TRUTH I SAY is that while Envision, TH, USACS embody the devil, the DEVIL are the docs who sold us all out - the same docs who got cheap medical school tuition, could easily afford beachfront homes, and are now sailing off into the sunset with the compensation from the sales of these SDGs.
 
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what will happen to their residencies. Article says years but no one really knows. Thoughts? Apparently their hca deal isn’t going well for them.


Bye, please take USACS with you.
 
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The truth, the TRUTH I SAY is that while Envision, TH, USACS embody the devil, the DEVIL are the docs who sold us all out - the same docs who got cheap medical school tuition, could easily afford beachfront homes, and are now sailing off into the sunset with the compensation from the sales of these SDGs.
Oh, I know this truth, believe me.

I could tell you all about the human who sold out my group. I could write about all the Zooms, and all the promises, and all the half-truths during the merger.

It would make for pretty entertaining reading. But it wouldn't change anything for the new crop of docs or those who are forced by family or other circumstance to remain U-shackled.

And but I'm paranoid, and I'm still a wage slave at the end of the night. And this evil is bigger than me, or my family, or us, or even the sellouts we know and hate.

This is a national problem, and it's not just medicine, and the left/right Culture Wars divide is but a large distraction.
 
Ah, USACS. Where do I start?
My return to the board (Hi Apollyon) prompted by my SDG recently purchased by USACS.

USACS has left my group alone so far as we negotiated some special protections, but unclear if these will endure. They bought us out in a manner that all of our shares were converted to USACS shares, but a certain percentage vest over a few years.... fully vested mere months after the Apollo loan will be callable (coincidence? I think not).

Best case scenario:
USCAS leaves us alone and lets us continue to operate with very little interference or change. The economy recovers by 2026 and/or USACS does so well that the loan being called by Apollo is not a threat to endurance.

Worst case? USACS renegs on all the 'special protections' we negotiated before our vesting period is complete + USACS becomes junk rated and flounders (our shares then go to zero including those already vested at time of sale).

The truth, the TRUTH I SAY is that while Envision, TH, USACS embody the devil, the DEVIL are the docs who sold us all out - the same docs who got cheap medical school tuition, could easily afford beachfront homes, and are now sailing off into the sunset with the compensation from the sales of these SDGs.
Welcome back, buddy!!
 
After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.

The best ER gig I ever had was working was with a non-profit hospital system. Most CMG gigs are trash. And some hospital-employed gigs are trash too. But there are also many decent hospital-employed gigs...and some downright excellent ones.
 
Let's face it, by the late 90s VH1 was waaaay better. Once Headbanger's Ball and Yo! MTV Raps were off the air, Behind the Music (on VH1) was the best programming out there. Head & shoulders above TRL.

Fun fact: a large amount of those lyrics are things that Mark Knopfler overheard an appliance store worker saying as the worker stood in front of a wall of TVs playing MTV. He apparently found the guy's comments so interesting that he asked for a pen and paper to start writing down direct quotes to include in Money For Nothing.

VH1 was epic back in the day.
MTV is now nothing but a punchline.

🎶 I waaant myy EEE KKK GGG.... 🎶
 
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Bad example lol. I wouldnt go buy shares of kohls right now.
One other consideration is that both team and envision are “owned “ by these pe backed dudes.

They own them in funds that try to dissolve in 7-10 years. In the contracts 12 is usually the max by which time they have to sell.

Envision was bought /taken private in 2017. Note usacs / wcas was 2015.

These funds would like to turn the money twice to enhance profits.

Usacs is different in that they sold debt (aka borrowed) cause no one but stupid doctors and gullible midlevels want their trash stock.

Wcas tried to sell to another “investor” oddly no one else felt those shares were worth as much as D Bag did. I suspect but don’t know that wcas had language in there to make sure they got their dough out. When usacs was formed emp was desperate and floundering. They found money and expertise and ruthlessness in wcas.
 
One other consideration is that both team and envision are “owned “ by these pe backed dudes.

They own them in funds that try to dissolve in 7-10 years. In the contracts 12 is usually the max by which time they have to sell.

Envision was bought /taken private in 2017. Note usacs / wcas was 2015.

These funds would like to turn the money twice to enhance profits.

Usacs is different in that they sold debt (aka borrowed) cause no one but stupid doctors and gullible midlevels want their trash stock.

Wcas tried to sell to another “investor” oddly no one else felt those shares were worth as much as D Bag did. I suspect but don’t know that wcas had language in there to make sure they got their dough out. When usacs was formed emp was desperate and floundering. They found money and expertise and ruthlessness in wcas.
It’s called preferred stock.

This has to be paid out first prior to anybody else getting money.

Therefore as in the case with USACS, when the debt is higher than the value of the company, when the company goes under the preferred stock is paid out, and there is nothing left for anyone else.

All those “shares” the docs get are worthless, they won’t see a dime if USACS is bought or dissolved, as the debt is too high
 
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It’s called preferred stock.

This has to be paid out first prior to anybody else getting money.

Therefore as in the case with USACS, when the debt is higher than the value of the company, when the company goes under the preferred stock is paid out, and there is nothing left for anyone else.

All those “shares” the docs get are worthless, they won’t see a dime if USACS is bought or dissolved, as the debt is too high
I’m aware of this fyi. Good for others to see and know.
 
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It’s called preferred stock.

This has to be paid out first prior to anybody else getting money.

Therefore as in the case with USACS, when the debt is higher than the value of the company, when the company goes under the preferred stock is paid out, and there is nothing left for anyone else.

All those “shares” the docs get are worthless, they won’t see a dime if USACS is bought or dissolved, as the debt is too high

Just want to clarify my understanding:

I believe preferred stock only gets paid once all debt holders are made whole. If they default on their loans they have to file for bankruptcy which then will divide up the assets and receivables among the debt holders. If anything is leftover, then preferred stock gets paid out. If anything remains, common stock is paid out. That’s why all equity (stock) positions are riskier and thus command a higher expected rate of return over time to compensate the investor for that risk.

If their debt is more than their assets and receivables, then my read is that all of the stock is worthless, including the preferred stock.

Please correct me if I’m wrong here, definitely possible.
 
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Just want to clarify my understanding:

I believe preferred stock only gets paid once all debt holders are made whole. If they default on their loans they have to file for bankruptcy which then will divide up the assets and receivables among the debt holders. If anything is leftover, then preferred stock gets paid out. If anything remains, common stock is paid out. That’s why all equity (stock) positions are riskier and thus command a higher expected rate of return over time to compensate the investor for that risk.

If their debt is more than their assets and receivables, then my read is that all of the stock is worthless, including the preferred stock.

Please correct me if I’m wrong here, definitely possible.
You are correct. I may not have been clear

Once the debt is paid, preferred stock is paid next prior to the common stock all the docs have.

USACS has so much debt they couldn’t even cover paying off their debt holders.
If there was any money left it would go to preferred stock, which is probably held by the company high ups.

Then it would be paid out to the docs, but there wouldn’t be any money left at this point. Highlighting their shares are worthless
 
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Just want to clarify my understanding:

I believe preferred stock only gets paid once all debt holders are made whole. If they default on their loans they have to file for bankruptcy which then will divide up the assets and receivables among the debt holders. If anything is leftover, then preferred stock gets paid out. If anything remains, common stock is paid out. That’s why all equity (stock) positions are riskier and thus command a higher expected rate of return over time to compensate the investor for that risk.

If their debt is more than their assets and receivables, then my read is that all of the stock is worthless, including the preferred stock.

Please correct me if I’m wrong here, definitely possible.
From investopedia. Consider a company is issuing a 7% preferred stock at a $1,000 par value. In turn, the investor would receive a $70 annual dividend, or $17.50 quarterly. Typically, this preferred stock will trade around its par value, behaving more similarly to a bond. Investors who are looking to generate income may choose to invest in this security. The most common sector that issues preferred stock is the financial sector, where preferred stock may be issued as a means to raise capital.

Basically it is debt. They become first in line if there is a bankruptcy. Not all "debt" is the same. They are first in line and get made whole before anyone else sees a dime.

Another definition.




Preferred stock is a type of stock that has characteristics of both stocks and bonds. Like bonds, preferred shares make cash payouts, often at a higher yield than bonds, while offering higher dividend returns and less risk than common stock.
 
From investopedia. Consider a company is issuing a 7% preferred stock at a $1,000 par value. In turn, the investor would receive a $70 annual dividend, or $17.50 quarterly. Typically, this preferred stock will trade around its par value, behaving more similarly to a bond. Investors who are looking to generate income may choose to invest in this security. The most common sector that issues preferred stock is the financial sector, where preferred stock may be issued as a means to raise capital.

Basically it is debt. They become first in line if there is a bankruptcy. Not all "debt" is the same. They are first in line and get made whole before anyone else sees a dime.

Another definition.




Preferred stock is a type of stock that has characteristics of both stocks and bonds. Like bonds, preferred shares make cash payouts, often at a higher yield than bonds, while offering higher dividend returns and less risk than common stock.

Just to confuse the issue further, different investopedia article: Which Creditors Are Paid First in a Liquidation?.

Looks like it depends on the underlying contracts of preferred equity and bonds. If the bond holder has a secured position, ie a first lien on a certain asset, then that party is paid first. All secured debts whether in first lien, second lien, etc are paid first. Then unsecured debts are paid. Often, but not always, preferred stock does not have a secured claim to a particular asset. They usually have a claim in the first share if any profits of the company. The preferred equity is structured so that it is paid before common equity, which is also unsecured. If you look at the income statement, earnings come after interest is paid to bond holders and taxes are paid. Preferred equity typically only has a claim on the final line, the earnings. They get paid from the earnings before the common equity. The long and short seems to be that the shares docs have are worthless in a default for usacs and the preferred equity may or may not be. It depends if the preferred equity is structured as a secured or unsecured position. Naming convention is most commonly that this would be unsecured in terms of an asset they have a claim on, but they do have a contractual guarantee usually to any profits. In bankruptcy, there are no profits so they wouldn’t necessarily have any claim until after the bondholders get their principal back.
 
Nearly all the private equity-backed CMGs have high debt loads. Some have high interest rates and are set to come due very soon.

One of the reasons I refuse to work for a PE-backed CMG. Thankfully my CMG has very little debt, and all of the debt is locked in at <2.75%. People may call my group a large CMG and say we're backed by private equity, but we are not and we are not debt-laden.
 
After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.
No we start forming our own private groups, at least I hope we can get docs to mobilize and think smarter long term.
 
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If CMGS go bankrupt, what assets of value do they have? Contracts that are losing money? Intellectual property -NO. Real estate -Doubt there is much here.

So what assets are we talking about?

This is not going to end well.
 
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Just to confuse the issue further, different investopedia article: Which Creditors Are Paid First in a Liquidation?.

Looks like it depends on the underlying contracts of preferred equity and bonds. If the bond holder has a secured position, ie a first lien on a certain asset, then that party is paid first. All secured debts whether in first lien, second lien, etc are paid first. Then unsecured debts are paid. Often, but not always, preferred stock does not have a secured claim to a particular asset. They usually have a claim in the first share if any profits of the company. The preferred equity is structured so that it is paid before common equity, which is also unsecured. If you look at the income statement, earnings come after interest is paid to bond holders and taxes are paid. Preferred equity typically only has a claim on the final line, the earnings. They get paid from the earnings before the common equity. The long and short seems to be that the shares docs have are worthless in a default for usacs and the preferred equity may or may not be. It depends if the preferred equity is structured as a secured or unsecured position. Naming convention is most commonly that this would be unsecured in terms of an asset they have a claim on, but they do have a contractual guarantee usually to any profits. In bankruptcy, there are no profits so they wouldn’t necessarily have any claim until after the bondholders get their principal back.
If you read the specific bond rating terms which are public you know Apollo is safe with their investments.
 
Nearly all the private equity-backed CMGs have high debt loads. Some have high interest rates and are set to come due very soon.

One of the reasons I refuse to work for a PE-backed CMG. Thankfully my CMG has very little debt, and all of the debt is locked in at <2.75%. People may call my group a large CMG and say we're backed by private equity, but we are not and we are not debt-laden.
Why does apollomd have debt? It is owned by an investment firm correct? It is not owned wholly by docs.
it’s not private equity as much as a long term holder / owner. Different setup but similar goals.
 
Why does apollomd have debt? It is owned by an investment firm correct? It is not owned wholly by docs.
it’s not private equity as much as a long term holder / owner. Different setup but similar goals.
No, ApolloMD is not owned by an investment firm. It is owned by the docs (over 1/3 of our docs have ownership in the company). All of our leadership still work clinical shifts. I'm not saying we don't have companies that invest in ApolloMD, but before you start making accusations that we're owned by an investment company or private equity, I would implore you to get the facts straight first.

ApolloMD has debt like many other companies. However, our debt is extremely low and is expected to be paid in full within the next few years. It is locked into an ultra-low rate and does not put the company in jeopardy of financial ruin if profits plunge. If our financial books weren't sound, we wouldn't be able to get such a low rate on our debt.
 
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No, ApolloMD is not owned by an investment firm. It is owned by the docs (over 1/3 of our docs have ownership in the company). All of our leadership still work clinical shifts. I'm not saying we don't have companies that invest in ApolloMD, but before you start making accusations that we're owned by an investment company, I would implore you to get the facts first.

ApolloMD has debt like many other companies. However, our debt is extremely low and is expected to be paid in full within the next few years. It is locked into an ultra-low rate and does not put the company in jeopardy of financial ruin if profits plunge. If our financial books weren't sound, we wouldn't be able to get such a low rate on our debt.
Do tell about the other companies making investments in apollomd.
 
Do tell about the other companies making investments in apollomd.
The only one that I'm aware of is ValorBridge, which is an investment company founded by ApolloMD. Rather than being an investment company that formed or purchased ApolloMD, it is my understanding that ValorBridge branched out from ApolloMD to handle AthenaMD (the smaller ER contracts), ER Express, and our telemedicine company (I forget it's name). It was formed primarily when ApolloMD purchased Hutcheson Medical Center.
 
VC are plagues to private Doc groups. They do not understand how medicine works and only care about time and return without looking at the long term picture.

I have a friend whos MD only group ran 3 FSERs in its infancy. Super successful and they wanted to expand. They looked to VC to fund expansion and in less than 3 years, group went bankrupt. VC main goal was return and when collections/profit was not as projected they pulled the plug on the whole group. This was right before Covid hit which would have made them millions if they just kept the 3.

He now is back doing locums.

If our group ever decides to sell out, I am taking my money and not looking back b/c it will be a dead business once VC puts money in.
 
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The only one that I'm aware of is ValorBridge, which is an investment company founded by ApolloMD. Rather than being an investment company that formed or purchased ApolloMD, it is my understanding that ValorBridge branched out from ApolloMD to handle AthenaMD (the smaller ER contracts), ER Express, and our telemedicine company (I forget it's name). It was formed primarily when ApolloMD purchased Hutcheson Medical Center.
The language here is critical. Apollomd did not found valorbridge. Some of the same people might have but the way you make it sound is as if VB is owned by apollomd. It is not and it is in fact the opposite.

 
The language here is critical. Apollomd did not found valorbridge. Some of the same people might have but the way you make it sound is as if VB is owned by apollomd. It is not and it is in fact the opposite.


ValorBridge was founded in 2004. ApolloMD was founded before that. It was started as the Bortolazzo Group in the 80s.

I have intimate knowledge of this. Do you?
 
ValorBridge was founded in 2004. ApolloMD was founded before that. It was started as the Bortolazzo Group in the 80s.

I have intimate knowledge of this. Do you?
Doesn’t matter when one was founded. It’s about who owns and controls it. Do you have any thing that says Apollo owns or controls valorbridge? Plenty of public info says the opposite.
 
ValorBridge was founded in 2004. ApolloMD was founded before that. It was started as the Bortolazzo Group in the 80s.

I have intimate knowledge of this. Do you?
Even on the valorbridge site it lists Apollo as an operating company under the investment tab. Can you explain?
 
Even on the valorbridge site it lists Apollo as an operating company under the investment tab. Can you explain?
Because Durham was on the board of ApolloMD when ValorBridge was founded.

As an investor, I have more knowledge of this than you. I'm going to end this discussion because you obviously have some axe to grind with the way ApolloMD is structured. I can tell you that ValorBridge does not own a controlling interest in ApolloMD (an overwhelming majority of shares are owned by physicians). ApolloMD is not owned and operated by any private equity company.
 
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