Envision lays off 90 docs in Tampa.

[RustedFox]

Health care group facing turmoil cuts 90 local physicians

Note this article has been removed. The document reporting the layoffs erroneously stated that the layoffs would be from the local office. There were no local layoffs for Envision Physician Services.

stpetecatalyst.com

Anyone know anything about this?
I'll keep my ear to the ground; this is happening in my backyard.

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[bravotwozero]

It begins.

 

[southerndoc]

Probably more on the horizon... stay tuned.

 

[Southpaw]

Health care group facing turmoil cuts 90 local physicians

Note this article has been removed. The document reporting the layoffs erroneously stated that the layoffs would be from the local office. There were no local layoffs for Envision Physician Services.

stpetecatalyst.com

Anyone know anything about this?
I'll keep my ear to the ground; this is happening in my backyard.

Article says the following:

"The job cuts are a direct result of Envision Physician Services’ contractual relationship ending with its New York hospital clients, including St. Peter’s Hospital, Albany Memorial Campus and Samaritan Hospital, according to a notification letter sent by Audrey Royal, the company’s relations manager."

Is it fair to say they're releasing physicians/NPs/PAs at sites where they lost contracts? Is it typical for Envision to force non-competes on you?

 

[dchristismi]

I wouldn't believe anything their press releases say.
Just like I don't trust anything their recruiters say.

In fact, I trust Envision about as far as I could personally throw a desktop computer with Meditech installed. (Which isn't very far, because I am a woman, and not an OrthoBro.)

 

[bronx43]

Article says the following:

"The job cuts are a direct result of Envision Physician Services’ contractual relationship ending with its New York hospital clients, including St. Peter’s Hospital, Albany Memorial Campus and Samaritan Hospital, according to a notification letter sent by Audrey Royal, the company’s relations manager."

Is it fair to say they're releasing physicians/NPs/PAs at sites where they lost contracts? Is it typical for Envision to force non-competes on you?

they are not releasing employees at sites where they lost contracts since they appeared to have lost contracts in NY state, yet they are firing people in the Tampa area.

 

[RustedFox]

I wouldn't believe anything their press releases say.
Just like I don't trust anything their recruiters say.

In fact, I trust Envision about as far as I could personally throw a desktop computer with Meditech installed. (Which isn't very far, because I am a woman, and not an OrthoBro.)

*Throw a desktop computer with Meditech installed*

Poetry.

 

[miacomet]

Article says the following:

"The job cuts are a direct result of Envision Physician Services’ contractual relationship ending with its New York hospital clients, including St. Peter’s Hospital, Albany Memorial Campus and Samaritan Hospital, according to a notification letter sent by Audrey Royal, the company’s relations manager."

Is it fair to say they're releasing physicians/NPs/PAs at sites where they lost contracts? Is it typical for Envision to force non-competes on you?

I received a few emails about staffing these places a few months ago; wonder what happened, seems like Envision picked up a huge number of upstate NY contracts, I think they have been transferred to TeamHealth, who also can't staff them.

Wonder what the deal is with the Clearwater employees, though.

Going to ask my St. Peter's friend what the dirt is there, at least.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Is it fair to say they're releasing physicians/NPs/PAs at sites where they lost contracts? Is it typical for Envision to force non-competes on you?

If there’s no contract then there’s no non-compete.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

I received a few emails about staffing these places a few months ago; wonder what happened, seems like Envision picked up a huge number of upstate NY contracts, I think they have been transferred to TeamHealth, who also can't staff them.

Wonder what the deal is with the Clearwater employees, though.

Going to ask my St. Peter's friend what the dirt is there, at least.

Well, that's my hometown.

In the past 5 years, those 3 contracts (St Peters/Samaritan/Memorial) have gone from EMP to USACS to Envision. And now you say to TeamHealth?

When I finished residency, in our waning halcyon days when I could still get $300/h easily as a new grad, USACS was paying $150--170/h up there, W-2 I believe. That's a big part of why I left Smallbany.

Please do post the dirt from over there. I'm curious...

 

[miacomet]

Well, that's my hometown.

In the past 5 years, those 3 contracts (St Peters/Samaritan/Memorial) have gone from EMP to USACS to Envision. And now you say to TeamHealth?

When I finished residency, in the waning $300/h halcyon days of EM, USACS was paying $150--170/h up there, W-2 I believe. That's a big part of why I left Smallbany.

Please do post the dirt from over there. I'm curious...

Eh, not much to see except I hear St. Peter's is in major trouble and has essentially replaced most of their hospitalists with midlevels.

I couldn't find why they lost the contract, or who replaced them, I think it was TH, but not sure.

 

[collegestud2013]

Article says the following:

"The job cuts are a direct result of Envision Physician Services’ contractual relationship ending with its New York hospital clients, including St. Peter’s Hospital, Albany Memorial Campus and Samaritan Hospital, according to a notification letter sent by Audrey Royal, the company’s relations manager."

Is it fair to say they're releasing physicians/NPs/PAs at sites where they lost contracts? Is it typical for Envision to force non-competes on you?

Unless the respective hospitals that Envision had a contract with are also closing, wouldn't these laid of physicians/NPs/PAs be re-hired under a different organization? Maybe by the hospital directly or another CMG? Otherwise, patient care could grind to a halt.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I wouldn't believe anything their press releases say.
Just like I don't trust anything their recruiters say.

In fact, I trust Envision about as far as I could personally throw a desktop computer with Meditech installed. (Which isn't very far, because I am a woman, and not an OrthoBro.)

Yeah, but if it has Meditech installed you get some extra distance from the rage adrenaline.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Unless the respective hospitals that Envision had a contract with are also closing, wouldn't these laid of physicians/NPs/PAs be re-hired under a different organization? Maybe by the hospital directly or another CMG? Otherwise, patient care could grind to a halt.

Ideally, but there's never any guarantee.

When USACS and VEP merged, the first thing USACS did was lay off all the PAs at my shop and convert to single-doc 12-hour shifts only, in order to save a few bucks. Patient care went on, as I like to feed my family, but few of my coworkers were happy about it.

From the corporate perspective, if the C-suite at TeamHealth or whoever doesn't think they need you to make money, then they will get rid of you. Doesn't matter if you're a doc, RN, or APP.

 

[Southpaw]

Unless the respective hospitals that Envision had a contract with are also closing, wouldn't these laid of physicians/NPs/PAs be re-hired under a different organization? Maybe by the hospital directly or another CMG? Otherwise, patient care could grind to a halt.

Yeah this is what I was alluding to. There are a lot of details missing, which I'm sure is why others here were interested in more info. As an anesthesiologist I don't have specifics on what occurs when one management company leaves and another enters with regard to EM, which is why I asked about non-competes. That can really make a straight forward situation (docs staying, just getting paid by new company) messy.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Yeah this is what I was alluding to. There are a lot of details missing, which I'm sure is why others here were interested in more info. As an anesthesiologist I don't have specifics on what occurs when one management company leaves and another enters with regard to EM, which is why I asked about non-competes. That can really make a straight forward situation (docs staying, just getting paid by new company) messy.

I worked prn at a site during a contract transition a few years ago. Was under a non-compete that CMG #1 (small, regional CMG) tried to enforce in order to get the hospital and/or CMG #2 (bigger, national) to buyout. I think it lasted all of a week before the matter was dropped w/o a buyout.

 

[Euripides]

Health care group facing turmoil cuts 90 local physicians

Note this article has been removed. The document reporting the layoffs erroneously stated that the layoffs would be from the local office. There were no local layoffs for Envision Physician Services.

stpetecatalyst.com

Anyone know anything about this?
I'll keep my ear to the ground; this is happening in my backyard.

HCA

There is actually more stability for the Envision EM/hospital medicine practices in FL at least as it applies to the HCA system. In the last few days HCA took over majority ownership of the Envision HCA JV company (Valesco). Physicians and others employed by Valesco now have the financial support of HCA Florida. Should be significant financial stability going forward now.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

HCA admin bagholder spotted

 

[DocEspana]

Health care group facing turmoil cuts 90 local physicians

Note this article has been removed. The document reporting the layoffs erroneously stated that the layoffs would be from the local office. There were no local layoffs for Envision Physician Services.

stpetecatalyst.com

Anyone know anything about this?
I'll keep my ear to the ground; this is happening in my backyard.

even more concerning...

the whole article has been wiped. this is what's there now if you click the link:

Note this article has been removed. The document reporting the layoffs erroneously stated that the layoffs would be from the local office. There were no local layoffs for Envision Physician Services.

so either *really* bad journalism - which is possible as 90 jobs lost in Tampa due to financial troubles in Albany doesn't make a ton of sense - or Envision just killed a story carried by a local source only.

 

[dchristismi]

I mean, St Peter's is awfully similar to St Pete, which is geographically right next to Clearwater... maybe the AI writing the article got it wrong.
Although the thinly-veiled poster above didn't deny it either, which still makes it very sketchy.

I still don't trust them and tell them as much when they email.
And Envision is already desperately trying to kill the bad press around HCA Bayonet Point as it is.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

And I just learned that these 3 abandoned contracts in Albany were re-acquired by...

guess who?

... USACS!!! Who already just gave them up like 3 years ago!

I do not understand the business of medicine. I do not understand how, if USACS' finances are actually in the toilet, they have the resources to re-acquire contracts that were not financially successful in the near past.

Ie, this acquisition leads me to believe that either USACS' finances are not actually in the toilet, or their admin are unaware of the fact that their finances are in the toilet, or there's something big here I don't understand.

 

[oldtown]

And I just learned that these 3 abandoned contracts in Albany were re-acquired by...

guess who?

... USACS!!! Who already just gave them up like 3 years ago!

I do not understand the business of medicine. I do not understand how, if USACS' finances are actually in the toilet, they have the resources to re-acquire contracts that were not financially successful in the near past.

Ie, this acquisition leads me to believe that either USACS' finances are not actually in the toilet, or their admin are unaware of the fact that their finances are in the toilet, or there's something big here I don't understand.

In fairness, there’s a lot of possible scenarios that make this feasible. The first time around, USACS could have been demanding a stipend to make up for a crappy payer mix, which the system was unwilling to provide. Envision steps in and offers to take the contract in the name of market share, and ran into the same problems, and walks away from it. Knowing the system is desperate, USACS comes in and says they’ll staff the ED, but the system will have to pay 1.5x the stipend USACS was demanding 3 years ago, as the system is over a barrel and needs the ED staffed, while USACS offers some familiarity. “After 2 CMG’s have walked away, who in their right mind is going to staff this toxic dumpster fire of an ED? We’re your only viable option if you want to keep the doors open”

Mind you, I know nothing about this particular situation, but this hypothetical scenario is one of many ways the economics could theoretically work. The contract negotiations can be ruthless.

 

[DocEspana]

I wonder if they are doing the contract management equivalent of what Steward does with some hospitals. It buys floundering-but-could-turn-around places and demands that they squeeze every last penny out of them and run bare bones and high profit. They do this because they view the investment this way: if it succeeds and the place turns a profit, you proved you can trim costs to a point where it is profitable and you can take your foot off the neck of the hospital employees slightly while still profiting. If it fails, you can just close the place and sell the land as a nursing home, hotel, or hospice facility - PLUS you ran the operation so barebones that you lost a much smaller amount of money discovering its a failure than you could have with more appropriately funded places.

Steward relatively famously informs hospital leadership* what the speculative value of the land and buildings as hotels/nursing homes would be and lets them know that amount of profit is the amount the hospital needs to meet otherwise it will become a hotel.

*at failing hospitals. I don't imagine that's their business model everywhere because they also have some quite successful places.

 

[bravotwozero]

I wonder if they are doing the contract management equivalent of what Steward does with some hospitals. It buys floundering-but-could-turn-around places and demands that they squeeze every last penny out of them and run bare bones and high profit. They do this because they view the investment this way: if it succeeds and the place turns a profit, you proved you can trim costs to a point where it is profitable and you can take your foot off the neck of the hospital employees slightly while still profiting. If it fails, you can just close the place and sell the land as a nursing home, hotel, or hospice facility - PLUS you ran the operation so barebones that you lost a much smaller amount of money discovering its a failure than you could have with more appropriately funded places.

Steward relatively famously informs hospital leadership* what the speculative value of the land and buildings as hotels/nursing homes would be and lets them know that amount of profit is the amount the hospital needs to meet otherwise it will become a hotel.

*at failing hospitals. I don't imagine that's their business model everywhere because they also have some quite successful places.

I work at a steward facility, with a mostly indigent care urban population in the ED. They just shut down a 275 bed facility in San Antonio, which left everyone wondering here what our future will be. Sigh.

 

[FlaminHotER]

Similar situation just happened in ATL

And couple years back in Philadelphia

 

[FlaminHotER]

Yikes

US regulators trying to sell First Republic Bank: reports

Shares of First Republic plunged from $122.50 a share on March 1 to $3.51 on Friday.

justthenews.com