At my institution we do epidurals w/ LOR to air in plastic syringes which are incredibly sensitive (impossible to inject air into skin/subQ/muscle). So I insert my touhy to 3 cm unless the patient is thin, attach my syringe, and start testing for LOR. Very easy and safe but slow. An attending encouraged me to try using a glass syringe with saline and I quickly realized it is not nearly as sensitive. It is very easy to inject into subQ or muscle and so I have to engage ligament before I can use it. My questions for attendings who use this method are:
1) Do you try to appreciate engagement of the interspinous ligament and then engagement of the ligamentum flavum? My understanding is that interspinous will give a "gritty" sensation as if pushing through a bag of tightly packed sand, followed by a subtle increase in resistance or crunch to indicate you are in ligamentum flavum
2) Do you attach your glass/saline syringe after you think you have engaged interspinous or after you think you have advanced into ligamentum?
3) Are there patients with soft/mushy ligaments that are difficult to feel? If so, is it possible to wet tap a patient by inserting a touhy by feel attempting to engage the ligament and getting no resistance but instead just being surprised by a wet tap? Or is it possible to engage interspinous and try to advance into ligament but don't feel anything and again be surprised by a wet tap?
Thanks in advance for your expertise!
1) Do you try to appreciate engagement of the interspinous ligament and then engagement of the ligamentum flavum? My understanding is that interspinous will give a "gritty" sensation as if pushing through a bag of tightly packed sand, followed by a subtle increase in resistance or crunch to indicate you are in ligamentum flavum
2) Do you attach your glass/saline syringe after you think you have engaged interspinous or after you think you have advanced into ligamentum?
3) Are there patients with soft/mushy ligaments that are difficult to feel? If so, is it possible to wet tap a patient by inserting a touhy by feel attempting to engage the ligament and getting no resistance but instead just being surprised by a wet tap? Or is it possible to engage interspinous and try to advance into ligament but don't feel anything and again be surprised by a wet tap?
Thanks in advance for your expertise!