Escaping return of service

[Unch]

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I'm sure some will disagree with this in principal but others will agree with my view (that return of service clauses violate the rights of Canadian citizen IMGs).

So... having heard many anecdotes but having no hard data or leads to go on, here's my query. Does anyone have specific knowledge of successful strategies or individual cases in which someone got out of a ROS agreement? Have any cases been taken to human rights tribunals, for instance? Or does anyone have knowledge of legal counsel working in favour of a resident manoeuvering out of a ROS clause? We all hear the stories but does anyone know the real status of legal (or other) challenges to ROS agreements, either nationally or provincially?

If info seems sensitive, please PM me with details about law firms, cases etc that might be specifically helpful. Thanks.

 

[leorl]

As far as I know and I could be wrong, I think if you go to Winnepeg you can bypass the ROS. I think that's the reason a couple of my classmates did it, but I'm not sure

 

[Unch]

Thanks. I just finished an elective in Winnipeg and, apparently, they will have a ROS starting next year.

 

[Sage880]

Unch - my understanding is that the ROS isn't as bad as people think. Even for specialties, pretty much everything outside of Toronto needs doctors. If they have a job open and you apply and get it it's pretty much a formality for the hospital to apply to the government to let you work there. My understanding is all these strict regulations are set up to stop you jumping provinces. They 100% do not want you to leave the province you've trained in and it's far more easier for them to relax regulations then to try and over-enforce them.

Also, this is still all just gossip at the moment but I have heard from someone in the know to expect a HUGE announcement this fall about radical changes being made for IMGs. This person told me this announcement is going to make IMG's very happy as well as placate the public screaming about how there aren't enough doctors.

I can't say who said it and I don't 100% believe anything until I see it and I'm about 30% scared they're f it up even more but, needless to say, I'll be watching the news this fall!

 

[Unch]

Thanks Sage. I was pretty much expecting some change anyway. It's been a little different every year so far. And it does seem as if the current rules aren't really working (making the best use of the IMG pool).

It's not that I want to resist the ROS rules. I just want to be in BC (where I'm from) and achieve a little continuity for my kids (age 2 and 4) and myself (not young).

I'm sure there will be some favourable options eventually but right now in BC, there are exactly zero options for IMG family residencies (the one program has too many extra hoops and forces applicants out of the CARMS match for that year-- putting all eggs in that basket). I'm not exactly keen to have another 4+ year stint out of province.

 

[JPR22]

I think the changes will have more to do with the proportion of IMGs who pay for residency spots verses IMGs who dont, and not too much on the actual number of IMGs accepted in carms.

 

[pattycanuck]

I think the changes will have more to do with the proportion of IMGs who pay for residency spots verses IMGs who dont, and not too much on the actual number of IMGs accepted in carms.

A lot of that will be program, let alone university dependent.

At the UofM (Manitoba), there were a few residents in certain programs that were accepted from Saudi Arabia and were paid their stipends by their national government agency responsible for them (talked to one in OBGYN a few years back). Sort of like the US who are on J1s: once they are done, they return home and do not stay on as staff in Manitoba or elsewhere in Canada.

There should always be a few spots related to CaRMS; dictation of the number of spots can have variables including what the local demand is for that specialty, the funding they receive from the province or additionally as in Winnipeg the WRHA (Winnipeg Regional Health Authority), etc.