Ethical question about rotation

[mountain girl]

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A friend in my school was on a family med rotation. The program director told the female residents they should come to him for pap smears. She felt it was creepy. He also hugs the females. He is very touchy. This all seems very unprofessional to me, but I would like to hear other opinions. I was going to rank that program in the future and now I am not sure if I should even audition there. Am I overreacting?

 

[Tomiee]

It’s hard to make a solid judgement on situation without being there and getting the full context/tone. Even then I still find it very odd. Also, him being touchy just makes him even more creepy. 100% red flag and your reservations are valid.

If it is unprofessional and uncomfortable for you, then it is reason enough to not go. Listen to your gut.

Honestly, being touchy in a professional situation is just asking for trouble. Does this director seem to treat female residents different from male residents? Just things to think about. I’ve seen docs treat female employees very differently versus males and it’s just so… suspicious.

 

[TwoDogMed]

He has Larry Nassar tendency. Probably wants to do OMM holistic treatment on female residents.😉

 

[Goro]

Report him to HR, stat.

 

[Dr. Pineal Gland]

Report him to HR, stat.

Goro, i have an ethical question too

 

[Goro]

Goro, i have an ethical question too

Fire away

 

[Dr. Pineal Gland]

Fire away

My friend at one of the Touro’s was upset that there is a flag of Israel on the graduation stage since it’s a Jewish institution. They have the United States flag, the state flag, and the flag of Israel in one corner. Would it be unreasonable for students to ask to have flags not on the graduation stage ?

Is it even something worth petitioning to have removed?

 

[Goro]

My friend at one of the Touro’s was upset that there is a flag of Israel on the graduation stage since it’s a Jewish institution. They have the United States flag, the state flag, and the flag of Israel in one corner. Would it be unreasonable for students to ask to have flags not on the graduation stage ?

Is it even something worth petitioning to have removed?

Answer, no.
The Touros are not just Jewish, they're Orthodox Jewish, so this is not a hill worth dying on.

 

[Dr. Pineal Gland]

Answer, no.
The Touros are not just Jewish, they're Orthodox Jewish, so this is not a hill worth dying on.

what ramifications are there for a gesture of protest at graduation, like holding up a flag or bringing this up to the school post match? Would they really prevent someone from graduating for even poking the bear about this?

 

[Goro]

Post graduation? Doubt it would matter.
Seriously doubt that The Powers That Be There would care, any more than LUCOM or Loma Linda would care about complaints about the Christian crosses there.

 

[Dr. Pineal Gland]

Post graduation? Doubt it would matter.
Seriously doubt that The Powers That Be There would care, any more than LUCOM or Loma Linda would care about complaints about the Christian crosses there.

But if a student brings up to the school they don't want any flags on their graduation stage and there is a majority vote from the class, could they raise the hammer on that student/group of students?

 

[Goro]

But if a student brings up to the school they don't want any flags on their graduation stage and there is a majority vote from the class, could they raise the hammer on that student/group of students?

Interesting question. At my school, we're student-centric, so we'd seriously listen to such a request.

NovaCOM would probably threaten the students with the Professionalism club.

I suspect that with 180+ med schools, there might be 180 different answers. Wise @Med Ed, @Mr.Smile12 @lord999 @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn @LunaOri what say you?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Interesting question. At my school, we're student-centric, so we'd seriously listen to such a request.

NovaCOM would probably threaten the students with the Professionalism club.

I suspect that with 180+ med schools, there might be 180 different answers. Wise @Med Ed, @Mr.Smile12 @lord999 @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn @LunaOri what say you?

Rules of commencement ceremonies ultimately fall to the University or designated School/College Marshal. Normally there's a committee that organizes the logistics, and I presume student leaders are present. I don't know how such a student vote would be received, but the faculty and/or the marshal can always say no (due to other considerations from other university/college officials).

I think the basics are the US flag and your state flag, maybe a banner with the seal of the University/College. Given the attention Columbia has had about its "anti-semitism," I'm not sure if it's worth raising a fuss over it. That said, you and many of the students receiving diplomas can always opt out of the ceremony. That's still your right; it's not a mandatory meeting. It's a benefit for the sake of your families and loved ones.

 

[LunaOri]

Students who have issues with Israel probably should not have chosen to attend a Jewish school. It is not up to the students to determine the mission/philosophy of the school. I have seen students at graduations wear garments or decorations that showed their support for particular causes; your friend might ask the school whether this would be allowed.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Students who have issues with Israel probably should not have chosen to attend a Jewish school. It is not up to the students to determine the mission/philosophy of the school. I have seen students at graduations wear garments or decorations that showed their support for particular causes; your friend might ask the school whether this would be allowed.

To be fair, the situation in the ME has changed quite a bit since when people made the decision to attend, and you can't just change schools.

Back to the question at hand: if your protest / complaint / feedback is in private, it's fine but will likely be ignored. If your protest / complaint / feedback is public, then you should be absolutely aware that it could have significant impacts on your future. Plenty of people have gotten in tons of trouble (i.e. "cancelled") over unwanted social media attention.

The school is orthodox Jewish. Protests are unlikely to be welcomed. And they may not be tolerated. Do not poke this skunk. As mentioned, if it upsets you enough, just do not attend.

 

[Dr. Pineal Gland]

To be fair, the situation in the ME has changed quite a bit since when people made the decision to attend, and you can't just change schools.

Back to the question at hand: if your protest / complaint / feedback is in private, it's fine but will likely be ignored. If your protest / complaint / feedback is public, then you should be absolutely aware that it could have significant impacts on your future. Plenty of people have gotten in tons of trouble (i.e. "cancelled") over unwanted social media attention.

The school is orthodox Jewish. Protests are unlikely to be welcomed. And they may not be tolerated. Do not poke this skunk. As mentioned, if it upsets you enough, just do not attend.

in high school, any "antics" on the grad stage (someone roller-bladed across the stage or did some gesture) would result in not getting your diploma until the following week. Could these antics in the medical school level result in a disciplinary action that would really do much for their residency careers?
If someone at your school pulled a flag of their native country and held it up or did a backflip, what would the response be? out of curiosity...

 

[lord999]

Interesting question. At my school, we're student-centric, so we'd seriously listen to such a request.

NovaCOM would probably threaten the students with the Professionalism club.

I suspect that with 180+ med schools, there might be 180 different answers. Wise @Med Ed, @Mr.Smile12 @lord999 @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn @LunaOri what say you?

My two schools are unequivocal about it. Until the conferral of the degree, discipline problems are dealt with. If they ruin commencement for the public, that is going to be dealt with severely. If is around the conferral of the degree (like SA'ing someone at the afterparty) or something along moral turpitude or disruptive employee grounds, yeah, that does get dealt with.

On the Touro situation, this school has a rather open and proud tradition of their religious and political affiliation. That's both from the school's mission statement which acknowledges and celebrates their heritage, but also from the faculty and alumni who have major exchanges. If a student does not share the school's values if overtly advertised as part of the university's mission, they can go elsewhere.

What is objectionable is covert societies having an open forum at commencement. For example, the small school had one of the faculty give a special kind of handshake to male members of that covert society after the official handing of the diplomas on stage. One of the VP's pulled that faculty member aside and said to knock it off lest they have a talk in private later "elsewhere." This is ok for like laboratory PI's celebrating at platform because that relationship is open and part of the academy, but something that is not officially sanctioned by the university is not.

 

[lord999]

in high school, any "antics" on the grad stage (someone roller-bladed across the stage or did some gesture) would result in not getting your diploma until the following week. Could these antics in the medical school level result in a disciplinary action that would really do much for their residency careers?
If someone at your school pulled a flag of their native country and held it up or did a backflip, what would the response be? out of curiosity...

We "lost" someone to the Pathology fellowship to those antics because honestly, we're a low-key place where if you are going to be a free spirit and play the Scrubs game, we don't have time for this @#* and rather move on.

There's a sense of allowable issues for a time and place for things. If you want to pull the Patch Adams defense about humor, know that he didn't actually act that way like what was depicted in the movies, and that there was much more to him than being a jokester including serious drug use and sexual harassment that would instantly get someone expelled today if caught at any one of the things that Patch did. They both sanitized and flanderized him.

 

[Med Ed]

Keep your heads down, graduate, and never give the alumni foundation a dime.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Also, maybe some of you already know this from undergrad... you might not get your actual physical diploma until a later time. I was lucky at the places I graduated where I did get my physical diploma appropriately signed and sealed. But I have been to other places where the actual diploma isn't given to you for another couple of weeks after the ceremony just to make sure the accountants and auditors clear you with your credits and requirements.

There is the viral video of someone who graduated with their bachelor's degree carrying their baby child. Security was "pursuing" this graduate onto the stage and walked behind him after he got his diploma. Really, don't be that person immortalized on the internet now.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Well, my learned colleagues above have made all of the points I would have made. All I'll add is if OP offered that complaint at my former school, they would be told " We'll mail you your diploma".

 

[DrFutureDO]

Unlikely but they could withhold your diploma and jeopardize your residency start.