Ethics Story

[Tensyle]

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I was coming out of class one day and one of my friends was talking to this other guy, about an exam that is coming up.

THis other guy says he'll sit next to my friend during the exam so that he can copy off her...and he looks at me and says, "...or are you guys some of those ethical people or something?"

I say, "yeah i dont cheat like that, sorry"...he goes..:well who needs ethics anyway?

I say, "well, if ur gonna become a doctor, you surely need to know ethics"..a.nd this kid says, "What? What does ethics have to do with being a doctor?"

can you believe it?

 

[cheezer]

um okay

 

[JaggerPlate]

I was coming out of class one day and one of my friends was talking to this other guy, about an exam that is coming up.

THis other guy says he'll sit next to my friend during the exam so that he can copy off her...and he looks at me and says, "...or are you guys some of those ethical people or something?"

I say, "yeah i dont cheat like that, sorry"...he goes..:well who needs ethics anyway?

I say, "well, if ur gonna become a doctor, you surely need to know ethics"..a.nd this kid says, "What? What does ethics have to do with being a doctor?"

can you believe it? I wanted to beat him with a bat.

I wouldn't want to but yes ... I believe it. I go to an extremely competitive, huge, pre med university and it seems like anyone/everyone will steal, cheat, and kill to get ahead ... anything it takes. It's absurd and makes no sense. When is the cheating going to stop?? You gonna cheat during a surgery?? It only lasts for so long, and people usually get what is coming to them. I see people cheating in classes and it makes me sick.

 

[doinmybest5840]

I just think it's hilarious that you're talking about ethics and then say you want to beat them with a bat. Hahaha But seriously, those people are lame.

 

[Tensyle]

I just think it's hilarious that you're talking about ethics and then say you want to beat them with a bat. Hahaha But seriously, those people are lame.

LOL yeah i was just a bit frustrated..i really wouldnt beat him with a bat even if given the chance. But it really bothers me to think that cheating and copying during tests is something that will carry into medical school. I mean, its such a high-school thing, but we had to deal with it in college...

now in medical school too?..i mean when are people gonna grow up, u know? Like Jaggerplate said, you really cant cheat when someone's under your scalpel...who are you gonna ask when you dont know the material when ur an attending?

Also, "ethics" doesnt stop at cheating...this kid doesnt know anything about ethics, and he wants to prescribe medicine to his patients

 

[phungus]

you should just tell that guy... "if you can't handle the heat, then bounce." yeah those people get me frustrated too, but i figured this will all just bite them in the end.

 

[Tensyle]

you should just tell that guy... "if you can't handle the heat, then bounce." yeah those people get me frustrated too, but i figured this will all just bite them in the end.

Ah, i dunno, not from my experiences...I had a friend in high school who would spend hours on coming up with cheating techniques with others, so that they can cheat during tests...now he's in dental school (he got into a combined BS-Dentistry program). I didnt cheat, and I had to suffer through Ochem and all...

I dunno, its not that I hope he gets bitten, but I just cant understand why you gotta copy during tests..its like using someone else's toothbrush.

 

[superfan56]

why does it matter to you really?

if the guy doesn't learn the material in the long run, it'll come back to bite him in the butt anyways on the mcat, then boards, etc. you can't cheat those tests...

 

[Tanner82]

why does it matter to you really?

if the guy doesn't learn the material in the long run, it'll come back to bite him in the butt anyways on the mcat, then boards, etc. you can't cheat those tests...

True... they may even get 1/2 a letter grade better than you if they cheat but in the long run you know the material and they don't. In my limited experience, I haven't seen any of those kids that cheat get consistently good grades. I'm sure some do but aesop says it best: cheaters never prosper. 👍

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Since I started college, it has never occurred to me to cheat. I once took a make-up test, shut in a room with DD Lewis (now an NFL linebacker), and another football player, and nobody watching us, and nobody said a word to each other. We could have easily done the exam as a group, but the downside of getting caught was way too great.

 

[osli]

The real problem with this type of scenario in practical terms is what you say when an adcom presents it to you in an interview and asks what you would do if you were the friend that overheard this conversation!

Most all universities have an ethics policy or honor code that compels students to report any knowledge of dishonorable conduct among other students... such as this scenario describes. 😎

So what are you going to tell the interviewer across the table from you... that you'd run to the dean of students immediately? Erm... Let it slide? Erm... Confront the student yourself? Erm...

It's tough to reconcile the technically correct ethical answer (first one) with what almost everyone would do in the real world (second or third options). But when your future is one the line, I'm sure you can answer that one real quick!

 

[Tensyle]

The real problem with this type of scenario in practical terms is what you say when an adcom presents it to you in an interview and asks what you would do if you were the friend that overheard this conversation!

Most all universities have an ethics policy or honor code that compels students to report any knowledge of dishonorable conduct among other students... such as this scenario describes. 😎

So what are you going to tell the interviewer across the table from you... that you'd run to the dean of students immediately? Erm... Let it slide? Erm... Confront the student yourself? Erm...

It's tough to reconcile the technically correct ethical answer (first one) with what almost everyone would do in the real world (second or third options). But when your future is one the line, I'm sure you can answer that one real quick!

I'd actually confront that studnet and say that its not cool to cheat, and if i see you doing it again, i'll report you. Then, i'd go to the dean or the class prof, and say there's been cheating going on, and to make an announcement of some sort...next time i see someone cheat, i'll report that person.

Is this liek a wrong answer?

 

[osli]

I'd actually confront that studnet and say that its not cool to cheat, and if i see you doing it again, i'll report you. Then, i'd go to the dean or the class prof, and say there's been cheating going on, and to make an announcement of some sort...next time i see someone cheat, i'll report that person.

Is this liek a wrong answer?

That would probably be a great answer in an interview. But did you actually do that in the situation you described in the first post? Did you let the appropriate dean and/or instructor know that you had heard a student making plans to cheat so that they could monitor appropriately?

I'm a pretty narrow walking guy, but my instinct would be to confront the student, much like you did, and strongly suggest that he not cheat. I don't think I'd tell anyone in an authority position. And I certainly wouldn't want to actually catch someone cheating, because then I'd be forced to decide what to do.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I choose... Business ethics.

 

[Jwalker9]

I choose... Business ethics.

You see ethics are.... Well business ethics can be seen as.... the key to ethics..... AAAHHHHH!!!!

 

[Tensyle]

That would probably be a great answer in an interview. But did you actually do that in the situation you described in the first post? Did you let the appropriate dean and/or instructor know that you had heard a student making plans to cheat so that they could monitor appropriately?

I'm a pretty narrow walking guy, but my instinct would be to confront the student, much like you did, and strongly suggest that he not cheat. I don't think I'd tell anyone in an authority position. And I certainly wouldn't want to actually catch someone cheating, because then I'd be forced to decide what to do.

thanks 🙂 hopefully my interviewers will think the same! yeah i emailed the professor about it, and she emailed me back saying they were gonna have 4 different versions of the exam administered within the same testing session anyway. So, I didnt feel the need to take it up to a dean or something like that. And I already suggested to that guy to not cheat during that preliminary encounter.

Some may call that tattle-taling, but honestly im sick of cheaters - i dont wanna be working with those types of ppl when we are trying to save someone in an emergency room later down the line.

 

[poly800rock]

You see ethics are.... Well business ethics can be seen as.... the key to ethics..... AAAHHHHH!!!!

personally i'd say that. followed by a "Knibb high football rules..."

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Almost every science class I've ever taken had no less than two versions of each exam, alternating every seat. Some classes had many more.

My o-chem I class, which started with 70+, and finished with 12 students, even had several versions. That was a really hard prof, which was why there were so many drops. He had a section at 8am, and another at 9am. I was signed up for 8am, but I went to both. The first time, I'd just copy stuff down. The second time, I'd pay attention and annotate. I ended up with the second-highest grade in that class, and o-chem II was cake for me after that. That prof's exams were nasty, but he was a great teacher. That class is what made me learn how to study.

I'm not sure why I just told that whole story.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

San Dimas high school football rules!!!

 

[Tensyle]

Almost every science class I've ever taken had no less than two versions of each exam, alternating every seat. Some classes had many more.

My o-chem I class, which started with 70+, and finished with 12 students, even had several versions. That was a really hard prof, which was why there were so many drops. He had a section at 8am, and another at 9am. I was signed up for 8am, but I went to both. The first time, I'd just copy stuff down. The second time, I'd pay attention and annotate. I ended up with the second-highest grade in that class, and o-chem II was cake for me after that. That prof's exams were nasty, but he was a great teacher. That class is what made me learn how to study.

I'm not sure why I just told that whole story.

 

[DocRawk]

I just think it's hilarious that you're talking about ethics and then say you want to beat them with a bat. Hahaha But seriously, those people are lame.

Is it not possible to ethically beat someone with a bat??? Even if it's for their own good?

 

[Tensyle]

Is it not possible to ethically beat someone with a bat??? Even if it's for their own good?

+1. there's compassion at its best.

 

[Meatwad]

Almost every science class I've ever taken had no less than two versions of each exam, alternating every seat. Some classes had many more.

My o-chem I class, which started with 70+, and finished with 12 students, even had several versions. That was a really hard prof, which was why there were so many drops. He had a section at 8am, and another at 9am. I was signed up for 8am, but I went to both. The first time, I'd just copy stuff down. The second time, I'd pay attention and annotate. I ended up with the second-highest grade in that class, and o-chem II was cake for me after that. That prof's exams were nasty, but he was a great teacher. That class is what made me learn how to study.

I'm not sure why I just told that whole story.

Holy **** dude, your class STARTED with just over 70+? I'm not even joking here, this semester O-Chem I has an enrollment of over 800 kids; and I'm being conservative because I don't have the exact number in front of me. How many people went to your school?

 

[Meatwad]

Is it not possible to ethically beat someone with a bat??? Even if it's for their own good?

I see nothing unethical about beating someone with a bat. Uncalled for, illegal, deplorable, sadistic, etc. are things that come to mind. Unethical, though, is quite a stretch.

So, if you only care about ethics, bat away.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Holy **** dude, your class STARTED with just over 70+? I'm not even joking here, this semester O-Chem I has an enrollment of over 800 kids; and I'm being conservative because I don't have the exact number in front of me. How many people went to your school?

I am a graduate of UT-Austin. We are one of the largest universities in the country in total enrollment (much of that is graduate school, law school, etc., but still... lots of people).

But this is Dr. Meyer's class. Nobody took it unless they had no other choice (like me), because he was supposed to be far and away the hardest one. Also, he had a reputation of being hard to get along with. I didn't find that to be the case at all, but I can see why people might think that. There were a lot of o-chem sections, and most of them had several hundred students. I think my o-chem II class had like 300, and it was in the summer.

 

[superfan56]

i took orgo 1 and 2 at a local university, 35 kids or so. I can't possibly imagine taking orgo with 300 or let's say 800!! kids..