Evening and Night Shift Opportunities

[Darth Revan93]

I'm an OMS-4 currently applying to the field. I absolutely love it and can't see myself doing anything else in medicine. However, I'm a night owl and always have been. I have accepted my fate that this career will force me to do early mornings. However, I was wondering if there are any opportunities for anesthesiologists to work exclusively evenings or nights? I was of the understanding that anesthesiology is becoming more of a shift work model, so would it be possible to be the night person in a group?

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[patriot6]

yes, plenty of models out there.

my group has two full time "nocturnists" who do all the nights; week on, week off.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

Yes for sure. Take all my nights please

 

[Darth Revan93]

yes, plenty of models out there.

my group has two full time "nocturnists" who do all the nights; week on, week off.

Are these models available only in private practice or academics, or could I find it either setting?

 

[Darth Revan93]

I know I'm far away from being at the point searching for jobs since I just need to match first, but how would you go about getting a nocturnist gig? Doesn't seem as common or advertised like in EM or IM.

 

[deleted1147063]

I'm an OMS-4 currently applying to the field. I absolutely love it and can't see myself doing anything else in medicine. However, I'm a night owl and always have been. I have accepted my fate that this career will force me to do early mornings. However, I was wondering if there are any opportunities for anesthesiologists to work exclusively evenings or nights? I was of the understanding that anesthesiology is becoming more of a shift work model, so would it be possible to be the night person in a group?

As a fellow night owl, I strongly discourage you from the specialty. You'll be miserable even when off. It's almost what I would call a deal breaker for anesthesiology.

Good night shift jobs are much rarer than you think, and those aren't the solution either (going to sleep at 8 am is not the same as going to sleep at 1-2). Usually when somebody pays for a separate night shift it's because there is work to do. When it's cushy, people do home call.

One of the reasons I am happier when in the ICU are the extra 1-2 hours of sleep.

 

[dabears505]

Yea very good point above. Big difference being a night owl staying up to 1-2 am relaxing and studying vs having to be up all night doing work. Also as you age things change too. In college and me school has no trouble starting up all big, now feel terrible the next day.

 

[dannyboy1]

Learn to get up earlier. If you ever have kids you are going to be doing it anyways.

 

[deleted1147063]

Learn to get up earlier. If you ever have kids you are going to be doing it anyways.

That's like saying to a gay person: learn to enjoy heterosexual sex.

You're either a morning person, or you're not. Genetic code.

 

[Darth Revan93]

Learn to get up earlier. If you ever have kids you are going to be doing it anyways.

That's not really the case. I'm naturally wired to be a night owl chronotype. Research has shown that humans are hard wired this way and is genetic in nature. Despite all of the "sleep hygiene" tips, it's not as simple as just "learning" to get up earlier when I was born like this. I was just asking if there are jobs out there the week accommodate this, even if it's rare or uncommon.

 

[NVO]

I used to always think I was a night owl (would regularly stay up til 3-4a in college and med school). Now I'm just tired all the time and want to sleep no matter what time of day

 

[chessknt]

That's not really the case. I'm naturally wired to be a night owl chronotype. Research has shown that humans are hard wired this way and is genetic in nature. Despite all of the "sleep hygiene" tips, it's not as simple as just "learning" to get up earlier when I was born like this. I was just asking if there are jobs out there the week accommodate this, even if it's rare or uncommon.

You don't think you're going to have to wake up early of you have kids? I guarantee you they will not be adapting to your schedule.

 

[GassYous]

Please

I used to always think I was a night owl (would regularly stay up til 3-4a in college and med school). Now I'm just tired all the time and want to sleep no matter what time of day

cpap

 

[Darth Revan93]

You don't think you're going to have to wake up early of you have kids? I guarantee you they will not be adapting to your schedule.

That's just for their early years. As they get older, it won't be like that. Besides, I have a great partner that we've discussed this ad nauseum and would make it work.

I'm not trying to argue and devolve this thread. I simply would like to discuss opportunities for nocturnist gigs, not my sleep schedule or chronotype, which is out of my control if I'm hard wired to be a night owl.

 

[patriot6]

That's just for their early years. As they get older, it won't be like that. Besides, I have a great partner that we've discussed this ad nauseum and would make it work.

I'm not trying to argue and devolve this thread. I simply would like to discuss opportunities for nocturnist gigs, not my sleep schedule or chronotype, which is out of my control if I'm hard wired to be a night owl.

Yeah, you can find it. Might have to be flexible on location in order to find the right gig. But it’s out there. Probably both academic and PP.

 

[Maz777]

Don't ever have children then. That's pretty much all I can say. Partner will hate you for not being available to help out at night, and they enjoy waking up at 5-6am for many years. Will lead to lots of resentment.

 

[Southpaw]

I'm an OMS-4 currently applying to the field. I absolutely love it and can't see myself doing anything else in medicine. However, I'm a night owl and always have been. I have accepted my fate that this career will force me to do early mornings. However, I was wondering if there are any opportunities for anesthesiologists to work exclusively evenings or nights? I was of the understanding that anesthesiology is becoming more of a shift work model, so would it be possible to be the night person in a group?

Yeah I think you’ll find work. Good luck.

 

[Darth Revan93]

Don't ever have children then. That's pretty much all I can say. Partner will hate you for not being available to help out at night, and they enjoy waking up at 5-6am for many years. Will lead to lots of resentment.

Ok, thanks for all of your help! I didn't ask any advice on how to raise kids or my relationship with my partner, since apparently you are an expert in MY relationship. Despite the fact that many nocturnists in many fields have successful relationships and children, you seem to be an expert on what's the only way to have a relationship and kids. If you're not going to answer my question, please refrain from posting and getting off track on topics unrelated to my question.

 

[dabears505]

I want to talk to OP in 10 years and see how they feel about this at that time.

 

[Maz777]

I want to talk to OP in 10 years and see how they feel about this at that time.

He doesn't want our advice unless it is exactly what he wants to hear. Haha. Sounds like the typical new-age med student. They are the experts. He should pre-emptively reach out to his residency PD after the Match and let them know he doesn't work early mornings. That will go over well.

 

[Darth Revan93]

He doesn't want our advice unless it is exactly what he wants to hear. Haha. Sounds like the typical new-age med student. They are the experts. He should pre-emptively reach out to his residency PD after the Match and let them know he doesn't work early mornings. That will go over well.

Geez, what is your problem dude? I simply asked a simple question about whether working nights is feasible, and you start going on about how I won't have a successful relationship or be able to have kids, despite not knowing anything about my personal life or even answering my original question to begin with. I want your advice related to the original question, not about my personal life. Many people have made a nocturnist life very compatible with their relationships and kids. I'm no new-age med student, I'm simply inquiring about a specific job market to try to improve my quality of life. I even stated earlier that if a nocturnist gig is not feasible, I would adjust accordingly and accept my fate. Appreciate the trolling dude.

 

[abolt18]

As a fellow night owl, I strongly discourage you from the specialty. You'll be miserable even when off. It's almost what I would call a deal breaker for anesthesiology.

Good night shift jobs are much rarer than you think, and those aren't the solution either (going to sleep at 8 am is not the same as going to sleep at 1-2). Usually when somebody pays for a separate night shift it's because there is work to do. When it's cushy, people do home call.

One of the reasons I am happier when in the ICU are the extra 1-2 hours of sleep.

I, too, am a night owl to some degree. Historically, NEVER went to bed before midnight in my adult life prior to anesthesiology residency. Even during residency, it was VERY normal for me to go to bed between 1130 and 1am every night, then get up at 0500ish for work. Weekends I'd catch up and sleep in until 9ish. I THOUGHT I felt pretty good despite the reduced hours. I drank a lot of caffeine as well.

Now that I've been doing it for a while, and I cut caffeine out entirely, I'm finally finding the ability/discipline/desire to go to bed closer to the 10-11 window and even sometimes earlier, and I've felt better, been waking up easier in the morning and naturally waking up earlier.

My point is only that one can change.

 

[chessknt]

Geez, what is your problem dude? I simply asked a simple question about whether working nights is feasible, and you start going on about how I won't have a successful relationship or be able to have kids, despite not knowing anything about my personal life or even answering my original question to begin with. I want your advice related to the original question, not about my personal life. Many people have made a nocturnist life very compatible with their relationships and kids. I'm no new-age med student, I'm simply inquiring about a specific job market to try to improve my quality of life. I even stated earlier that if a nocturnist gig is not feasible, I would adjust accordingly and accept my fate. Appreciate the trolling dude.

Actually most people havent found that to be true--that is why so few people do nights. It is absolutely the exception to find night work compatible with a healthy relationship and lifestyle but being young means you think you are always the exception. Good luck.

 

[deleted1147063]

Geez, what is your problem dude? I simply asked a simple question about whether working nights is feasible, and you start going on about how I won't have a successful relationship or be able to have kids, despite not knowing anything about my personal life or even answering my original question to begin with. I want your advice related to the original question, not about my personal life. Many people have made a nocturnist life very compatible with their relationships and kids. I'm no new-age med student, I'm simply inquiring about a specific job market to try to improve my quality of life. I even stated earlier that if a nocturnist gig is not feasible, I would adjust accordingly and accept my fate. Appreciate the trolling dude.

There is no real nocturnist job market in anesthesia. If that's your goal, you should go the IM +/- CCM route.

Search on gaswork.com, to get an idea.

Trust us: the older you get, the more they have to pay you to do nights, even late days. Life is short.

I'm anesthesia critical care-trained, and you can't pay me enough to sleep in the hospital.

 

[patriot6]

There is no real nocturnist job market in anesthesia. If that's your goal, you should go the IM +/- CCM route.

Search on gasworks.com, to get an idea.

Trust us: the older you get, the more they have to pay you to do nights, even late days. Life is short.

I'm anesthesia critical care-trained, and you can't pay me enough to sleep in the hospital.

Gaswork is a good idea. Busy places (lvl 1 trauma, high volume OB) have in house people, and staffing with a night time rotation is not uncommon. In my area, there are 4 anesthesia groups and 2 use nocturnists. It’s out there.

 

[deleted1147063]

Gaswork is a good idea. Busy places (lvl 1 trauma, high volume OB) have in house people, and staffing with a night time rotation is not uncommon. In my area, there are 4 anesthesia groups and 2 use nocturnists. It’s out there.

Exactly 8 jobs that mention nocturnist in all states, for anesthesiologists, on gaswork, as of now.

 

[patriot6]

Exactly 8 jobs that mention nocturnist in all states, for anesthesiologists, on gaswork, as of now.

That’s cause they’re occupied. Such great working hours. 😉

 

[Maz777]

Kid should be a hospitalist, OB nocturnist, or EM. Those are the only specialties that are actually conducive to this mentality. Not a sustainable career path for most anesthesiologists (and definitely not for a fresh out-of-residency anesthesiologist with no experience). That's not what he wants to hear though. He wants us to tell him that these jobs are amazing, abundant, highly desirable, and very conducive to one's lifestyle/family.

 

[nimbus]

That's like saying to a gay person: learn to enjoy heterosexual sex.

You're either a morning person, or you're not. Genetic code.

He said learn to do it. Not necessarily to enjoy it.

 

[nimbus]

There is no real nocturnist job market in anesthesia. If that's your goal, you should go the IM +/- CCM route.

Search on gaswork.com, to get an idea.

Trust us: the older you get, the more they have to pay you to do nights, even late days. Life is short.

I'm anesthesia critical care-trained, and you can't pay me enough to sleep in the hospital.

I don’t mind sleeping in the hospital for money (“sleeping for dollars”.) What I don’t enjoy is actually working at 3am.

 

[UscGhost]

Finding one may be a challenge as since it's an uncommon model so not a lot of groups are designed around utilizing them.

However, if you find a big group, you could probably create your own night shift by offering to cover people, until eventually everyone gets used to it.

The challenge is to walk in and start a full time night shift when nobody else is there doing it already. For example, in my group you could probably find 5 people willing to give up their nights..but then you need to figure out what to do on the days that the othere don't want to give up theirs

 

[Darth Revan93]

Kid should be a hospitalist, OB nocturnist, or EM. Those are the only specialties that are actually conducive to this mentality. Not a sustainable career path for most anesthesiologists (and definitely not for a fresh out-of-residency anesthesiologist with no experience). That's not what he wants to hear though. He wants us to tell him that these jobs are amazing, abundant, highly desirable, and very conducive to one's lifestyle/family.

I really hope you are not my colleague after residency. I just asked a simple question about opportunities for evening and night work, yet I'm being berated for not taking people's advice for nights. I am considering everyone's advice, but I don't appreciate you saying I only want to hear what I want to hear or pursuing another field entirely. That's extremely inconsiderate about my career aspirations when I stated I'm already pursuing the field, and false that I'm not listening. I asked a question about job opportunities, and now this thread is devolving into me being someone not willing to listen. Geez, SDN is toxic. A simple no, these opportunities are not available would've sufficed.

 

[LaryngoSpazz]

I think a lot of groups that require in-house call would want a nocturnist or a weekend person. They just don’t advertise it because they don’t think anyone will want that job for the price they’d be willing to pay. Most of us don’t want to work nights as you can tell.

 

[deleted1147063]

I really hope you are not my colleague after residency. I just asked a simple question about opportunities for evening and night work, yet I'm being berated for not taking people's advice for nights. I am considering everyone's advice, but I don't appreciate you saying I only want to hear what I want to hear or pursuing another field entirely. That's extremely inconsiderate about my career aspirations when I stated I'm already pursuing the field, and false that I'm not listening. I asked a question about job opportunities, and now this thread is devolving into me being someone not willing to listen. Geez, SDN is toxic. A simple no, these opportunities are not available would've sufficed.

Don't take things so personally. If SDN is toxic, you haven't met a surgeon yet.

In the end, you are the one who asked for help, so you will get all kinds of (free) help. It's not like you're paying $400/hr for the advice.

 

[Darth Revan93]

Don't take things so personally. If SDN is toxic, you haven't met a surgeon yet.

In the end, you are the one who asked for help, so you will get all kinds of (free) help. It's not like you're paying $400/hr for the advice.

I just don't appreciate being called a new-age medical student that only wants to hear the advice I want to hear, which is completely the contrary. I'm willing to hear all advice. Just not at the expense of being insulted when all I did was ask a question.

 

[LaryngoSpazz]

One thing to keep in mind is you may lose a lot of skills doing only night work right out of residency.

 

[dabears505]

Maybe we are getting fired up hostile replies from op because he's writing them in daytime hours. Let's see if he tones it with his 2 am replies.

 

[deleted1147063]

Maybe we are getting fired up hostile replies from op because he's writing them in daytime hours. Let's see if he tones it with his 2 am replies.

He's hostile because we "woke" him up.

 

[Darth Revan93]

I'm just amazed that I get told to never have kids and my relationship will fail by working nights. I just asked if the opportunity was there, yet I'm getting attacked for it and now I'm being called hostile for reacting to comments that were unnecessary. Whatever, I'm done responding to comments that don't answer my original question.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

I will addend what I said. I would think that most anesthesia night positions are gonna be per diem/ locums type stuff. Where i work we have lots of those types that take our nights/weekends.

 

[Darth Revan93]

By the way, thank you to everyone that answered my question. Knowing whether this is feasible or not helped give me more info for my future career.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

If you're not able to find a nocturnist position in the area you want to work when you finish training, reach out to different practices/groups in the region. I'm sure they will try hard to create one for you, so you can take all their nights!

 

[chessknt]

I just don't appreciate being called a new-age medical student that only wants to hear the advice I want to hear, which is completely the contrary. I'm willing to hear all advice. Just not at the expense of being insulted when all I did was ask a question.

Here is some more advice you probably won't want--this question is completely pointless. You have no idea what the work is like yet you want to make sure you can work as a nocturnist because you dont like waking up early? This is like someone posting on family medicine because they like to eat lunch and they need to make sure their lunch hour is protected because it is a core part of their identity. The fact that this has any bearing on your future career is alarming.

 

[vector2]

Exactly 8 jobs that mention nocturnist in all states, for anesthesiologists, on gaswork, as of now.

There's probably more (but not substantially more) nocturnist positions on the site. They simply don't use the word "nocturnist" in the posting.

E.g, here's one and here's another.

As a side note, some of these positions prey on anesthesiologists thinking "26 weeks off" is a good deal. It most definitely isn't. EM/CCM/hospitalists know that paid vacation weeks must be granted in addition to the "26 weeks off".

 

[dabears505]

In June 2019, a Working Group of 27 scientists from 16 countries met at the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) in Lyon, France, to finalise their evaluation of the carcinogenicity of night shift work. The Working Group classified night shift work in Group 2A, “probably carcinogenic to humans”, based on limited evidence of cancer in humans, sufficient evidence of cancer in experimental animals, and strong mechanistic evidence in experimental animals. A summary of the evaluations is published in The Lancet Oncology on 4 July 2019. The full assessment will be published in volume 124 of the IARC Monographs.

Do yourself a favor and get to bed when it's night and be awake when it's day

 

[Darth Revan93]

Here is some more advice you probably won't want--this question is completely pointless. You have no idea what the work is like yet you want to make sure you can work as a nocturnist because you dont like waking up early? This is like someone posting on family medicine because they like to eat lunch and they need to make sure their lunch hour is protected because it is a core part of their identity. The fact that this has any bearing on your future career is alarming.

A lot of extrapolation in this thread. I'm surprised educated doctors don't know about chronotypes and how that it's not simply something that you can just change. I have already stated that I'm willing to spend my entire career working early mornings for this field since I love it. I never said I don't want to wake up early. I would give almost anything to be a morning person. I was just simply inquiring about evening and night opportunities, and yet so many of you have resorted to just demeaning and unnecessary comments. If you're not going to be helpful in answering my question, then just don't. If nights aren't feasible, that's fine. But yikes! So much hostility just about asking about a specific job opportunity. And considering I've done many rotations in anesthesia, I have an idea what the job entails. Granted, not to the extent of you all who have been working in the field. Anyway, thanks to all that have been helpful.

 

[GassYous]

Maybe you should reflect as to why the way you communicate with people causes hostility.

 

[psychbender]

I knew a place that hired a pair of guys to cover L&D nights. They'd each do a Mon-Thr night, a Saturday day, then be off the following week. It's not a job I would recommend someone take right out of residency, but it's an example of nearly exclusive night work in anesthesia.

 

[anaesthetic]

I know a buddy who took a night position. I have no idea how he’s doing, probably because he doesn’t exist during traditional waking hours.

A large part of “anesthesia” is letting stuff roll off your shoulders without taking it to the head. You’ll be able to really appreciate that once you go through residency training. Sorry for the unsolicited advice.

In the end, we’re all just strangers on the internet, typing sweet nothings into the night (or early morning).

 

[BLADEMDA]

Are these models available only in private practice or academics, or could I find it either setting?

Academics offers the night coverage system as well. Lots of opportunities for you to make 50-100% more money as well working some of your days off.