Ever reported a pharmacy or pharmacist to a state board of pharmacy?

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mike36 said:
I do not claim that the law was broken. It was. As has been said by myself and others on here, the law in Texas requires the pharmacist to counsel on all new prescriptions and to document the counseling session. This is one of the things that our professor harped on in our law class.
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Someone has a pretty high opinion of there self. :laugh:
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Wow man, get over yourself.

You reported the pharmacy to the state board?

You need to get out more. Seriously, find some hobbies.
 
Walgreens does have a counseling log. It is just done through the register unless the state requires a physical signature.
I am in a state which requires pharmacist counseling with every new script and a tech cannot make the offer. To be honest, the fact that a tech is not allowed to make the offer is the most broken rule at my pharmacy.
Honestly, laws are broken everyday in every pharmacy. Most are minor infractions, but they happen. How many times have a pharmacy switched out one albuterol inhaler for another without contacting the md because the insurance will only pay for one inhaler, or switch omeprazole tablets to capsules because the insurance will only cover the capsules? These things are done every day.
 
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The log book at CVS has to columns for people to sign. One states something like "no I dont want counseling" the other is for counseling. Do these actually hold any weight legally or are they considered interference?

Im assuming this guy signed the "no" side since 99% of people do. Perhaps the pharmacist will be ok if that signature means anything.
 
Ilikechemicals said:
The log book at CVS has to columns for people to sign. One states something like "no I dont want counseling" the other is for counseling. Do these actually hold any weight legally or are they considered interference?

Im assuming this guy signed the "no" side since 99% of people do. Perhaps the pharmacist will be ok if that signature means anything.
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It does not. In Texas the law specifically states that a technician or a clerk asking if there are any questions does not meet the requirement for offering to counsel. Like I said earlier a pharmacist at my former company here in Texas was fined $1000 by the Texas Board of Pharmacy for failure to counsel.
 
Ilikechemicals said:
The log book at CVS has to columns for people to sign. One states something like "no I dont want counseling" the other is for counseling. Do these actually hold any weight legally or are they considered interference?

Im assuming this guy signed the "no" side since 99% of people do. Perhaps the pharmacist will be ok if that signature means anything.
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Hmm...I thought the log said something about signing to confirm the Rx was picked up. I did not see 2 different sides, though that does not mean a whole lot since I did not really pay much attention to it. The tech pointed to a space to sign in, and that is where I signed.
 
MountainPharmD said:
It does not. In Texas the law specifically states that a technician or a clerk asking if there are any questions does not meet the requirement for offering to counsel. Like I said earlier a pharmacist at my former company here in Texas was fined $1000 by the Texas Board of Pharmacy for failure to counsel.
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The point is the OP said NO, he does not want to be counsel so it makes no sense for the pharmacist to counsel him.

It would have been different if the OP asked for counseling and the pharmacist said no, then there would be a problem. The OP should have said YES, HE WANTED COUNSELING if he wanted counseling. Saying NO I DON'T WANT COUNSELING and then reporting the pharmacy for NOT counseling is stupid.
 
A good pharmacist will make the initiative to counsel when it is necessary. For example, telling a woman on birth control to use a back up when dispensing antibiotics. But with the current economic climate and corporations cutting hours, it is impossible to counsel every patient that comes in with a new prescription. The problem with most people in the United States is that they want everything spoon fed to them. OBRA 90 or not, a technician saying "do you have any questions for the pharmacist" is more than adequate in my opinion. The patients need to start taking a more proactive role in their own health. People don't know what meds they take, and it's not because they don't understand , it's because they are lazy. Some people have legitimate issues that keep them from understanding certain information, but it seems most just don't care; i.e. "I need my little green pill filled." Reporting this pharmacy was flat out wrong. It's hard enough to find a job these days, and putting someone at risk for losing his or her job for something trivial like this is absurd. This guy is probably works 12 hours, takes 5 minutes to eat lunch while standing up, and barely finds the time to take a piss. These people sheltered in academia feed you all of this clinical bull**** that you don't use in real life, especially working in retail.
 
SHC1984 said:
The point is the OP said NO, he does not want to be counsel so it makes no sense for the pharmacist to counsel him.

It would have been different if the OP asked for counseling and the pharmacist said no, then there would be a problem. The OP should have said YES, HE WANTED COUNSELING if he wanted counseling. Saying NO I DON'T WANT COUNSELING and then reporting the pharmacy for NOT counseling is stupid.
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Hey ******* listen carefully again.....A technician or a clerk CANNOT make the offer to counsel. In Texas the law specifically states the offer has to be made by a pharmacist. As soon as the technician asked the patient if they had any questions the law was broken. It makes no difference that the patient said no. If fact the law reads the Pharmacist will counsel all patients on new prescriptions not just ask them if they have any questions. The Board inspectors are also going out and warning Pharmacists that they need to be more aggressive in counseling patients on refills.
 
MountainPharmD said:
Hey ******* listen carefully again.....A technician or a clerk CANNOT make the offer to counsel. In Texas the law specifically states the offer has to be made by a pharmacist. As soon as the technician asked the patient if they had any questions the law was broken. It makes no difference that the patient said no. If fact the law reads the Pharmacist will counsel all patients on new prescriptions not just ask them if they have any questions. The Board inspectors are also going out and warning Pharmacists that they need to be more aggressive in counseling patients on refills.
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I don't take issue with the pharmacist having to make the offer but jeez, are you really supposed to FORCE the patient to accept counseling? I know there are probably a lot of people that ask incorrectly that maybe direct the patient to say "no" (i.e. "you don't have any questions do you?" uhhh how else are you supposed to answer that besides "no") rather than open-ended questions (i.e. "what questions do you have about your new medication?") but I don't think you can essentially mandate patients to accept counseling.

I'm getting this mental image of chasing someone in the parking lot while yelling at them that they need to be counseled 😱
 
MountainPharmD said:
Hey ******* listen carefully again.....A technician or a clerk CANNOT make the offer to counsel. In Texas the law specifically states the offer has to be made by a pharmacist. As soon as the technician asked the patient if they had any questions the law was broken. It makes no difference that the patient said no. If fact the law reads the Pharmacist will counsel all patients on new prescriptions not just ask them if they have any questions. The Board inspectors are also going out and warning Pharmacists that they need to be more aggressive in counseling patients on refills.
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Learn something every day. I guess I better read up a lot about Texas Pharmacy law before I decide to move down there.
 
Sparda29 said:
They asked you if you had any questions for the pharmacist. That is the offer to counsel. They made the offer, and you said no. Their obligation to counsel is done right there.
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yeah , he did turn down the offer,
 
MountainPharmD said:
Hey ******* listen carefully again.....A technician or a clerk CANNOT make the offer to counsel. In Texas the law specifically states the offer has to be made by a pharmacist. As soon as the technician asked the patient if they had any questions the law was broken. It makes no difference that the patient said no. If fact the law reads the Pharmacist will counsel all patients on new prescriptions not just ask them if they have any questions. The Board inspectors are also going out and warning Pharmacists that they need to be more aggressive in counseling patients on refills.
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I think the tech did not offer to counsel the patient, s/he ask if the patient has any question for THE PHARMACIST. .......
 
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Ilikechemicals said:
The log book at CVS has to columns for people to sign. One states something like "no I dont want counseling" the other is for counseling. Do these actually hold any weight legally or are they considered interference?

Im assuming this guy signed the "no" side since 99% of people do. Perhaps the pharmacist will be ok if that signature means anything.
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Two is a number

Too is also or in excess

To is a preposition
 
I think this is the same like a teacher asking students at the beginning of class: do you have any questions?

Of course the students don't know what to ask. Is it OK the teacher dismiss the class thinking her job is done because the students declined her offer.

I don't blame the pharmacist nor the technician in this case though. I think you should report the board and get the pharmacy fined so they will hire more pharmacists to meet the patients' needs.
 
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MountainPharmD said:
People the law in Texas has changed as of June 1st this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah we all know about OBRA 90 and how we all pretty much disregard it. Well the good 'ole State of Texas knows pharmacists are not counseling. As of June 1st they added a requirement that the pharmacist doing the counseling must document either on the hard copy or electronically that they did the counseling. The State board is going to start sending plain clothes inspectors to observe the pharmacist and if they are counseling. The word on the street is they will hand out citations on the spot. This new requirement is a game changer for pharmacy in Texas.

Unfortunatly the game at the corportate level has not changed at all. I have had my hours cut twice since June 1st. Yes, that’s right. My work load and responsibility increased by a 100% and I have had my hours reduced by 15%.
Good times in retail pharmacy. I will tell you right now with my current alotted staffing level I cannot comply with the law. It is physically impossible for myself or my staff to counsel or offer to counsl on every new prescription. I sent a very strongly worded e-mail up through my chain of command stateing this. It nearly got me fired.

Everyone on here is blasting this guy. The only way things will change is if the public complains. If the State Board gets enough complaints the pharmacies will have to fall into line. It sucks right now because the State Board is holding individual pharmacist accountable for counseling. I believe they are doing this because they have been unsuccessful in getting the corporations to provide us with the resourses to counsel. I believe there intention is to place it all on the pharmacists in hope thay will collectively be able to pressure the corporation into giving us the proper amount of resourses to do it.

I do not know what will come out of all this. I will tell you I am honestly worried. We have flu shots coming up along with the uptick in business cold and flu season brings. If I comply with this law my pharmacy will cease to operate. I am not being melodramatic about this. If I have to physically go to the drive through and the two registers up front every time a patient has a new prescription and ask them if they have questions then we will cease to operate because that is all I will be doing. Throw flu shots in on top of this and you have a dangerous situation where the pharmacists is doing to many things at one time. At any one time during the day I could have one to ten people waiting on a flu shot, five to ten people waiting on prescriptions to be filled, two or three lines on hold for the pharmacist, patients lined up at the drive-through and two cash registers up front waiting to be counseled and four technicians to supervise. It is a nightmare. There are times I want to throw my pen down and walk out.
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They should be holding the companies just as responsible if not more. Vicarious liability. It's obvious it's systemic and not as much a pharmacist issue as a work environment that does not allow pharmacists to have the time to perform all of their required duties. There would be more compliance if stores were fined.
 
Who has time to walk over to the registers every refill Rx??? 99.99% of the time I look like an idiot going "any questions?" *Pt slowly finishes counting their pennies to pay for the Rx...* "Any questions"? "Uh no, it's a refill".
 
Charcoales said:
Who has time to walk over to the registers every refill Rx??? 99.99% of the time I look like an idiot going "any questions?" *Pt slowly finishes counting their pennies to pay for the Rx...* "Any questions"? "Uh no, it's a refill".
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I know, right? I am so busy sometimes it takes me like 7 years to reply to an SDN thread


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
It was the only thread that came up on a search ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
museabuse said:
I am not sure what the law is in texas but in my state the tech cannot ask do you want to counsel or do you have questions, they must just call pharmacists for counsel and the pharmacist must counsel unless the pt says they do not need counseling but a question cannot be asked.

Anyways maybe the pharmacist at CVS graduated from pharmacy school with the rose colored glasses that retail pharmacy is about counseling pts, MTM, teaching pts about their drugs and disease states. But then reality hits them and finds out its all about answering the phones as fast as you can, being a telphone solicitor with the sole purpose to increase script count, and kissing a customers ass by giving the gift cards and making sure they call the survey and give you great scores.

Maybe last week this pharmacist was counseling pts, providing MTM, and teaching pts on the disease states and was provinding pharmacuetical care that their pharmacy school raved about, that a line at drive thru built up and the DM got a phone call. Maybe this pharmacists wasn't making the phone calls to tell pts they need to flonase because they were busy helping an old lady who doesn't even go to the pharmacy decide what to do because she missed her dose and is scared she is going to die because her blood pressure is too high(15 min conversation). Maybe they were providing so much counseling that scripts were turning red and pts were complaining because they couldn't get their vicodin in 15 minutes because the pharmacist was talking to another pt about diabetes. So then maybe the DM wrote her up because the pharmacy is not meeting company goals(which do not include counseling). The DM is mad because he will not get his bonus because the pharmacist is spending too much time counseling and not enough time on the programs that the company cares about because that is what makes the money not counseling.
So now the pharmacists is scared they are going to lose their job because their store is not answering the phones fast enough and filling scripts fast enough that the pharmacist decides they would rather provide food for the family and have a job and does everything they can to please the corporate beast. The pharmacists now realizes that there is no way they can counsel every pt and please the corporate beast. So they choose to please the corporate beast not because they don't care about the pts but because they think they dont have any other oppurtunities because they work in So Cal or NJ.
So does this pharmacist deserve to have to go to board of pharmacy and be punished. Maybe instead of complaining about the pharmacy not counseling you, you should complain to the board that the corporations are not providing adequete resources(ie tech hours) to provide counseling and adequete pharmacy care.
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Spot on
 
Charcoales said:
Who has time to walk over to the registers every refill Rx??? 99.99% of the time I look like an idiot going "any questions?" *Pt slowly finishes counting their pennies to pay for the Rx...* "Any questions"? "Uh no, it's a refill".
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Wow.
This thread is pathetic.

I don't know what state you're in, but you need to learn your law.

In Texas, asking if they have questions is permissible for refills.
 
Pretty old thread.
But wow, sounds like OP instigated the event to have it reported.
 
cakezyum said:
7 years must have changed a lot by then.
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Nah.

Still plenty of lazy cowards that will complain that they voluntarily work 14 hour shifts with no lunch or bathroom breaks, yet criticise people who expect a higher standard.

"I don't have time for this!"

Yeah, that's why you're a pleb being worked to death by a corporate pharmacy.
 
Honestly, I think the OP makes a good point - being asked if you have any questions for the pharmacist isn't the same thing as offering counseling, and there are many patients out there who don't realize that they do actually have questions (you don't know what you don't know). So not only is it a violation of TX law, apparently, but it is also a missed opportunity to prevent potential medication errors.

The pharmacy I've gone to pick up meds at (military treatment facility), I almost always have a pharmacist ask me if I've/the person I'm picking up for has taken the medication before, and the pharmacist briefly goes over the directions for use with me, and then asks if I have any other questions. This literally takes ten seconds and I don't feel like my time is being wasted with "forced" counseling. They aren't even required by law to do this, it's just good practice. Sometimes the pharmacy technician will do this brief counseling (pharmacy technicians are allowed to provide some counseling in federal facilities), but I've definitely had the pharmacist do this as well. Wait times vary at this pharmacy between 5 minutes to 30 minutes for a single Rx. Point being, it is certainly possible to have a functional pharmacy in which the pharmacy staff is able to confirm the patient/caregiver has a basic understanding of how to take each new Rx, and the patient/caregiver is actually offered counseling - not just asked if they have any questions for the pharmacist. (The horrors of a healthcare system that isn't solely driven by profits!)

So not only is it good practice, it's also the law in TX, but you don't have the time to follow the law and prioritize patient safety because of corporate pressure and a workflow that prioritizes speed over quality... That's totally real, and I get that (no rose colored glasses here), but it still doesn't make it right. So what needs to happen for this to change?

One person reporting this to the state board wouldn't likely do much, except penalize an individual pharmacist for a systemic problem. I wonder what would happen if several people flooded the state board with complaints about pharmacists not following the law and properly counseling them? Will hundreds of pharmacists get fined and/or put on probation? Would that maybe motivate pharmacists enough to unionize? Or maybe the chain pharmacy corporations will get upset about the bad PR and pressure the state board to change the law?
 
giga said:
Honestly, I think the OP makes a good point - being asked if you have any questions for the pharmacist isn't the same thing as offering counseling, and there are many patients out there who don't realize that they do actually have questions (you don't know what you don't know). So not only is it a violation of TX law, apparently, but it is also a missed opportunity to prevent potential medication errors.

The pharmacy I've gone to pick up meds at (military treatment facility), I almost always have a pharmacist ask me if I've/the person I'm picking up for has taken the medication before, and the pharmacist briefly goes over the directions for use with me, and then asks if I have any other questions. This literally takes ten seconds and I don't feel like my time is being wasted with "forced" counseling. They aren't even required by law to do this, it's just good practice. Sometimes the pharmacy technician will do this brief counseling (pharmacy technicians are allowed to provide some counseling in federal facilities), but I've definitely had the pharmacist do this as well. Wait times vary at this pharmacy between 5 minutes to 30 minutes for a single Rx. Point being, it is certainly possible to have a functional pharmacy in which the pharmacy staff is able to confirm the patient/caregiver has a basic understanding of how to take each new Rx, and the patient/caregiver is actually offered counseling - not just asked if they have any questions for the pharmacist. (The horrors of a healthcare system that isn't solely driven by profits!)

So not only is it good practice, it's also the law in TX, but you don't have the time to follow the law and prioritize patient safety because of corporate pressure and a workflow that prioritizes speed over quality... That's totally real, and I get that (no rose colored glasses here), but it still doesn't make it right. So what needs to happen for this to change?

One person reporting this to the state board wouldn't likely do much, except penalize an individual pharmacist for a systemic problem. I wonder what would happen if several people flooded the state board with complaints about pharmacists not following the law and properly counseling them? Will hundreds of pharmacists get fined and/or put on probation? Would that maybe motivate pharmacists enough to unionize? Or maybe the chain pharmacy corporations will get upset about the bad PR and pressure the state board to change the law?
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Yes, hundreds of pharmacists get fined and put on probation. If you go to the Texas Board of Pharmacy, that information is public. They have newsletters and you wouldn't believe how many people they have fined or worse for not counseling. Here are a couple examples from one of their newsletters. I took out the pharmacist's names and license numbers.

"Alleged violations: while working at CVS/pharmacy #7748 in Dallas, TX, failed to provide verbal patient counseling and failed to maintain complete and accurate pharmacy records regarding patient counseling. Agreed Board Order accepted by licensee and entered by the Board on 02-02-16: license fined $1500."

"Alleged violation: while working at North Cypress Village Pharmacy in Cypress, TX, failed to provide verbal patient counseling. Agreed Board Order accepted by licensee and entered by the Board on 02-02-16: license fined $1000."

When I was working in a retail pharmacy in Texas, I remember the Board of Pharmacy had a letter on their website addressed to retail Pharmacy corporations, encouraging them to have adequate staffing, lunch and bathroom breaks...but they didn't enforce it. What good does a letter on a website do?
 
PharmD500 said:
They always say that. It's crazy that you would think the Board of Pharmacy would take action against someone without investigating.
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No trust me, they do. I don't want to go into details but after that board hearing, it's obvious money plays a huge part for them.
 
I know this topic is 7 years old BUT it is still relevant today. Here in Texas, we are a counseling mandatory state. Pharmacists must counsel patients on every new prescription. Technicians and cashiers are not allowed to say anything to the patient that is designed to screen interactions with the pharmacist. A patient CANNOT refuse a consultation until it begins. The law states that counseling "shall be given", not "offered". Pharmacists are not allowed to ask the patient if they have any questions about their medications. They are supposed to counsel. Only then can the patient tell the pharmacist to STFU.
 
giga said:
Honestly, I think the OP makes a good point - being asked if you have any questions for the pharmacist isn't the same thing as offering counseling
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That's not the law in Texas. Being asked if you have any questions for the pharmacist IS offering counseling. Only problem is that in Texas, counseling cannot be offered. It must be given.
 
BenJammin said:
That's not the law in Texas. Being asked if you have any questions for the pharmacist IS offering counseling. Only problem is that in Texas, counseling cannot be offered. It must be given.
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Ok, good point, I missed that. Although, counseling being offered versus given aside, what I was addressing is that to me, being asked if I have any questions for the pharmacist versus if I would like counseling on my new medications from the pharmacist means two very different things, and it is not clear that "do you have any questions for the pharmacist" is the same thing as being offered counseling. In terms of semantics, "do you have any questions about your new medications for the pharmacist?" versus "would you like the pharmacist to go over how to use your medications?" literally are two different questions, and the two questions are not interchangeable.

I get that under TX law either question is invalid, so it doesn't really matter in the OP's case.
 
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How does the typical refill Rx interaction go in Texas?
 
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