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deleted109597
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I prefer the questionable admit to be the person that either takes 7 years to complete school, or the one that has to scramble after only applying to FM programs.
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Everybody is smart in med school.
Started by UnderdogMD
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I prefer the questionable admit to be the person that either takes 7 years to complete school, or the one that has to scramble after only applying to FM programs.
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That simply sounds like a different questionable admit, based on academic reasons rather than social etiquette reasons.
It wasn't a shock for me at all because everyone was book smart at my undergrad as well. Now, although everyone is book smart in med school not everyone works as hard as the other, is as mature as the other, or as emotionally or world-smart as the other.
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True, but doing well in college most likely isnt really such a great indication of intelligence- probably more so diligence. You also have to remember, that a sizable chunk of med students went to really crappy non-selective colleges. And its simply not true that premed courses are difficult in all colleges.
Which is why there is a big standardized test to gauge whether an A in college X is equivalent to an A in college Y. And why the admissions process is multifaceted and takes into account ECs, essays, interviews and other non-objective standards that hint at whether the person is an achiever or a slacker.
I'm going to medical school.
I used to sell running shoes for a living. Now I'm an unemployed pastry cook.
As a result, I can say with certainty that not everyone in medical school is smart.
I used to sell running shoes for a living. Now I'm an unemployed pastry cook.
As a result, I can say with certainty that not everyone in medical school is smart.
Nothing you have typed indicates whether or not you are smart. Just what you've done thus far. I suspect we all know some uber smart Ivy League type who quit the rat race and decided to just go to cooking school and become a chef. Doesn't really tell us whether that person is smart or not, just that their needs to be validated by a competitive career are perhaps a bit different than ours. That doesn't mean such a person won't kick our butts all over town in a med school class if such person chose.
Apparently even a dummy can get a 39R on the MCAT (according to MDApps Profile link provided). I knew that test wasn't worth a damn!
Apparently even a dummy can get a 39R on the MCAT (according to MDApps Profile link provided). I knew that test wasn't worth a damn!
Eh. The MCAT is hardly a measure of intelligence.
Being able to sit still for almost 9 hours (I took the paper test) != smart.
It actually frightens me a little that one day I will be in charge of someone's health.
And that's a good thing.
I know right?!?! Thank God we have wikipedia.
It has been my observation that those who "make it" in medical school are indeed intelligent (although intelligence itself can hardly be measured or agreed upon). However, what has floored me amongst my colleagues is the lack of respect that many have for others. Many of my schoolmates are extremely rude and absolutely inconsiderate. Also, many do not even exemplify self-respect. This is what truly bothers me. I know, it's not my problem. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but it is my concern for medicine/patients as a whole...
You guys are so insulated.
I've done enough lowly grunt-work jobs- tarring roofs, custodial work, dishwashing, night club bouncer, etc to say with confidence that med students are all highly intelligent. You hold them accountable for a few dumb decisions, but that's nothing compared to blindly wandering through an entire lifetime in ignorance. I make an effort to get to know these idiots, to explore just how dumb they are, and it is quite disturbing. Try googling some old gallup polls and you'll find out that only about 50% of the US knows we were the first to drop the a-bomb, 30% don't know what the Holocaust was, many doubt concepts of evolution and climate change, and quite a few still think the twin towers collapse was a controlled demolition organized by the government.
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That's one of my biggest qualms with the people in medicine. You can always tell who was the only child to professional / well off parent--and there are a LOT of them. They're the extremely rude ones that, when you say "Hello" and smile at them, they look at you and keep walking b/c mommy and daddy told them their **** doesn't stink, they're better than everyone else, and they were spoiled absolutely rotten.
Rule of thumb for people with a modicum of respect for others and with generally good manners: If you make eye contact with someone and they smile/nod/etc, reciprocate the gesture!!!
I know the hospital isn't Disneyland, but it would be a much better place if people were courteous and polite.
That's true - it would do most people in medicine a great service if everyone would examine themselves in some fashion to see if they have these characteristics. The disrespectful are often also the ones who do the most complaining (about mean attendings, not having enough time to do whatever, etc). Obviously everyone needs to look out for themselves, but many still continue to think that the world is against them and they are the only ones who ever have to struggle or compete.
The thing is, you say it's not your problem, but it is your problem. You will have to work with these people in the future. Hopefully, you can keep your attitude but many do not. These disrespectful students turn into the residents and attendings who can be backstabbers, selfish, unethical, or whatever. Most people, if you show them respect and they respect you, will ultimately behave appropriately and as good colleagues, even those who do exhibit selfish traits from time to time. But some individuals will continue to think the earth revolves around them, and medicine as a whole suffers.
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I take it you haven't met UpToDate yet? In terms of medicine, UTD blows Wikipedia out of the water. Not only does it answer just about any question I have with a significant amount of detail, everything is heavily cited, and the authors are all listed right at the top.
Medical school SELECTS for the high achieving memorizers.
Intelligence is slightly above average in medical school. IQ is based more on cognitive and reasoning ability NOT memorization.
On the other hand, engineering school SELECTS for the the most cognitive and best reasoners i.e. most intelligent.
Sure there are exceptions. Such as people with extremely high cognitive and reasoning abilities in medical school. However, one thing is for sure. People in medical school are a extremely high achieving, goal oriented individuals.
The best students in medical school are have three cardinal traits. They have the hardest work ethic, incredible study discipline, and are the best memorizers.
Intelligence doesn't even play a major role. In fact, intelligence is a hinderance because intelligent people are the most curious individuals. Once they find an interesting medical fact they get sidetracked from the rote material that needs to be memorized.
This wouldn't be so bad but in medical school the volume of information is TREMENDOUS. Therefore any time wasted in pursing something out of curiousity means less time to memorize the material.
Intelligence is slightly above average in medical school. IQ is based more on cognitive and reasoning ability NOT memorization.
On the other hand, engineering school SELECTS for the the most cognitive and best reasoners i.e. most intelligent.
Sure there are exceptions. Such as people with extremely high cognitive and reasoning abilities in medical school. However, one thing is for sure. People in medical school are a extremely high achieving, goal oriented individuals.
The best students in medical school are have three cardinal traits. They have the hardest work ethic, incredible study discipline, and are the best memorizers.
Intelligence doesn't even play a major role. In fact, intelligence is a hinderance because intelligent people are the most curious individuals. Once they find an interesting medical fact they get sidetracked from the rote material that needs to be memorized.
This wouldn't be so bad but in medical school the volume of information is TREMENDOUS. Therefore any time wasted in pursing something out of curiousity means less time to memorize the material.
I agree that memorization plays a very large role in med school, but I highly disagree with your notion that intelligence is a hinderance to doing well. You are making the false assumption that someone who is good at memorizing is not also good at reasoning. Likewise, if you are bad at memorizing you must be good at reasoning. You can be good at both and bad at both. Med school exams are not just memorization. You need to memorize first to be able to reason with the material. Some exams (like anatomy) were mostly memorization, but organ based classes had a ton of reasoning questions. You had to be able to memorize and reason, IMO. Some of the most "curious" people (in regards to understanding material and going above and beyond) I have come across did very well.
Changing what he said to "Thank god we have Uptodate" wouldn't have been funny.
Dude I am 6 years ahead of you. I have been very successful in medical school. That is a fact. Just sit back and read my posts in my history. So I know from first hand experience. What do you know? Have you even taken Step 1 yet?
Bottomline: Medical school exams are all pattern recognition and there is very little reasoning. Creativity is stifiled in medical school so inductive logic is not cultivated. USMLE is also pattern recognition. I have scored 99's on Step 1 and Step 2. Step 3 I studied only one day so did average. But the fact is that I have done extremely well. You can check out my USMLE advice in my history.
The fact of the matter is that exams in medical school are all pattern recognition. So don't tell me something until YOU take Step 1 first.
And when you get ready to take Step 1 search my history and you will find HIGH YIELD advice on how to score a 99 on Step 1.
Bottomline: Medical school exams are all pattern recognition and there is very little reasoning. Creativity is stifiled in medical school so inductive logic is not cultivated. USMLE is also pattern recognition. I have scored 99's on Step 1 and Step 2. Step 3 I studied only one day so did average. But the fact is that I have done extremely well. You can check out my USMLE advice in my history.
The fact of the matter is that exams in medical school are all pattern recognition. So don't tell me something until YOU take Step 1 first.
And when you get ready to take Step 1 search my history and you will find HIGH YIELD advice on how to score a 99 on Step 1.
damn you are the master....I bow down lol
I am not arguing there is no pattern recognition to step 1. I am arguing that intelligence is not a hinderance to doing well in med school....Oh wait a minute, so based on your own reasoning you are saying you are dumb as rocks
ps I'm not a dude!
😀
Exhibit B below that Verbal Reasoning has regressed in medical school. If you read my 1st post I mention that there are exceptions.
Take my advice. read my through post on how to do extremely well on Step 1. I have had numerous people on here that have thanked me for my thoughtful advice that helped them achieve an ultra high score.
Take care. Meant nothing about calling you a dude. No offense intended.
Take my advice. read my through post on how to do extremely well on Step 1. I have had numerous people on here that have thanked me for my thoughtful advice that helped them achieve an ultra high score.
Take care. Meant nothing about calling you a dude. No offense intended.
damn you are the master....I bow down lol
I am not arguing there is no pattern recognition to step 1. I am arguing that intelligence is not a hinderance to doing well in med school....Oh wait a minute, so based on your own reasoning you are saying you are dumb as rocks
ps I'm not a dude!
😀
Dude. You're pretty insulated to think that you're the only one who has ever interacted with people outside the ivory tower.
The education level of most of the people around me this year (culinary school training to become a pastry cook... and a running store selling shoes) was decidedly humble, but many were able to demonstrate great intellectual capacity. Sure, they couldn't use "arrogate" in a sentence or describe a low boiling azeotrope, but that doesn't mean they aren't intelligent.
The average med student is smarter than your average joe/jane. However, there's an overlap of those two bell curves. Not everyone in med school is smart.
law2doc- just in the one post you used "allo" four times (not to mention the rest of the thread), you can relax- YOU ARE IN the allo forum I am sure no one here will make the awful mistake of assuming that the ***** osteo students did well in undergrad.
While I agree the tone of the message may have been derogatory towards D.O. students, I think it is worth stating that the general belief is that D.O. schools focus less on grades and MCAT than M.D. schools. They tend to focus more on the whole picture of who the applicant is. So there is some validity to what he is saying.
Must we result to such harshness as stating heartless figures gentlemen? Medicine is more about feeling than facts. If osteopathic students feel that their academic credentials are as good as allopathic students then should we not grant them that?
Afterall, can anything really be proven?
Mankind's biggest farce is his belief that he can reason. Such impractical policies are the product of the old school. This is not how the world works in todays reality!
Afterall, can anything really be proven?
Mankind's biggest farce is his belief that he can reason. Such impractical policies are the product of the old school. This is not how the world works in todays reality!
There is plenty of misconceptions and denial on this forum. Just because
DO students have lower grades and MCATs that means they are more well-
rounded than MD applicants? This is bs. MD applicants have higher
grades and MCATs, and they are equally well-rounded as any DO
applicant. Just because someone has high grades and is smart it doesnt
mean that they are automatically not well-rounded.
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THIS IS SO TRUE! Happened to me today.... You definitely find your friends, but then you find a lot of other people who are just plain not nice. I like to think it's not their fault, that they just don't know any better and don't have normal social skills. What irks me, though, is they can bring out the charm in front of attendings.
This is the truth no matter how you cut it.
People keep talking about people who seem dumb but do well on tests.
This is a good test taker.
Good tests does not equal good brain stuff.
Some of the best scorers couldn't think there way out of a 10th grade geometric proof.
Smartypantsedness is measured by thinky power not bubbly sheet ability.
By the way, med school has very few really smart people, lots of smart people, and way more dumb people than we would ever dare dream.
People keep talking about people who seem dumb but do well on tests.
This is a good test taker.
Good tests does not equal good brain stuff.
Some of the best scorers couldn't think there way out of a 10th grade geometric proof.
Smartypantsedness is measured by thinky power not bubbly sheet ability.
By the way, med school has very few really smart people, lots of smart people, and way more dumb people than we would ever dare dream.
I'm not trying to be negative, but biology is hardly a difficult subject. It is probably one of the easiest sciences. I don't know how it is now, but a few decades ago, when Stephen Hawking was still in Cambridge, students went into a given field based on their intelligence. The dumbest kids went into biology, the smartest into physics. There is also this notion that because physics is so intensive, you won't be able to fully grasp it if you don't study it before the age of 30 - this is why my major is in physics.
We had a guy in our physics class who was not smart by any measures. He was an engineering major, but he couldn't even figure out how to use the hole puncher (he destroyed several of our lab reports). I eventually found a way to evict him from our lab group because I found myself explaining him concepts instead of doing the lab. Think kindergarten. Anyway, this guy ended up getting better grades on all his tests than the majority of the class. I got As too, but his were sometimes higher. He still didn't understand concepts fully, but he tried to do almost every problem in the book and became a problem solving robot. I was always worried that one day I might be driving on a bridge built by him. The moral here is that if a student can do very well in physics by punctilious repetitions, what about a much simpler subject like biology? In undergrad, pre-meds are hardly the smartest students.
We had a guy in our physics class who was not smart by any measures. He was an engineering major, but he couldn't even figure out how to use the hole puncher (he destroyed several of our lab reports). I eventually found a way to evict him from our lab group because I found myself explaining him concepts instead of doing the lab. Think kindergarten. Anyway, this guy ended up getting better grades on all his tests than the majority of the class. I got As too, but his were sometimes higher. He still didn't understand concepts fully, but he tried to do almost every problem in the book and became a problem solving robot. I was always worried that one day I might be driving on a bridge built by him. The moral here is that if a student can do very well in physics by punctilious repetitions, what about a much simpler subject like biology? In undergrad, pre-meds are hardly the smartest students.
I thought undergrad allowed for a more flexible schedule. While difficult at times, it didn't require as much of a commitment.
I would say medical school is more difficult in terms of amount of time invested as compared to the difficulty of subject material. It is a matter of discipline and work etheic. Our strengths stem from our interests. If you are interested in science, it will be easier to study.
Really we are just in another trade school. Instead of working on cars, we are working on people. I have pride in what we do, but I don't think having the letters behind your name make you any smarter or more capable than any other average joe/jane on the street. We just put the time in.
most people could do it if they put the time in. hence the "questionable" classmates as some of you have pointed out.
I would say medical school is more difficult in terms of amount of time invested as compared to the difficulty of subject material. It is a matter of discipline and work etheic. Our strengths stem from our interests. If you are interested in science, it will be easier to study.
Really we are just in another trade school. Instead of working on cars, we are working on people. I have pride in what we do, but I don't think having the letters behind your name make you any smarter or more capable than any other average joe/jane on the street. We just put the time in.
most people could do it if they put the time in. hence the "questionable" classmates as some of you have pointed out.
nonsense. doctors are generally highly intelligent and very able to "reason". you can't get that far by pure memorization. at least not most people. on the other hand, I agree that medicine is a highly non-creative field, and the whole process in no way rewards creatiivity. (for many fields). I think this is what creates some frustration amongst people once they actually start doing the job.
