Everyone on this forum needs to calm down

[cyclicamp]

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I think there is too much emphasis placed on board scores by many of the students who frequent this forum. To think that PDs will simply reduce quality applicants to a test is absurd! Furthermore, I am convinced that taking the USMLE for DO students is a waste of time.......I know everyone has had contacts with such and such director who said it is important but I think it is bunk (our test consists of magic potions and skinning cats). I guess I will now become a horrible failure for not taking the USMLE......we shall see, in fact, I will submit myself as the rab lat for this forum. I sicerely don't mean to start a fight but the idea seems ridiculous.

 

[BamaAlum]

I think there is too much emphasis placed on board scores by many of the students who frequent this forum. To think that PDs will simply reduce quality applicants to a test is absurd! Furthermore, I am convinced that taking the USMLE for DO students is a waste of time.......I know everyone has had contacts with such and such director who said it is important but I think it is bunk (our test consists of magic potions and skinning cats). I guess I will now become a horrible failure for not taking the USMLE......we shall see, in fact, I will submit myself as the rab lat for this forum. I sicerely don't mean to start a fight but the idea seems ridiculous.

🙄 Try applying to competitive ACGME programs in the Southeast or the Northeast for that matter without USMLE scores and see how far that gets you. Why not give yourself the most opportunities? It was never an issue for me. I want to do a residency in the Southeast and every single program director told me it was in my best interest to take the USMLE. It would have been extremely short-sighted on my part to not take the advice from people who make decisions on who gets selected for their residency program. I am so glad I took the USMLE. I studied my ass off and I did well. I don't understand some DO students stubornness towards this exam. I'm sure you'll be fine without it, but don't knock those of us who decided to broaden our options by taking the exam.

 

[NebelDO]

amen bro.. amen..

 

[raspberry swirl]

🙄 Why not give yourself the most opportunities? It was never an issue for me. I want to do a residency in the Southeast and every single program director told me it was in my best interest to take the USMLE. It would have been extremely short-sighted on my part to not take the advice from people who make decisions on who gets selected for their residency program. I am so glad I took the USMLE. I studied my ass off and I did well. I don't understand some DO students stubornness towards this exam. I'm sure you'll be fine without it, but don't knock those of his you decided to broaden our options by taking the exam.

👍

 

[bigfrank]

Suggesting that a DO student who is going to be applying to an allopathic residency NOT take a licensing exam for allopaths that would help level the playing field? That is ridiculous!!!

 

[cyclicamp]

All I am saying is that students do not give residency directors enough credit to look at a percentile (they are very intelligent people you know)???? Perhaps they question the validity of the COMLEX....which, excuse me, is RIDICULOUS! If they question the test don't you think they might also question your education? Seriously, the tests may have some differences.....COMLEX has alot of Neuro, applied anatomy, pharm, and micro.......from what I have heard the USMLE has more genetics/molecular bio and stats but the core knowledge is the same, you still should know most of those subjects for both exams. It seems that many DOs feel that taking the USMLE is a golden ticket......give me a break! There are many important factors that go into an application.....good LORs, third year grades, research/publication, contacts, preclinical class rank, and, oh my goodness, yes even those lowly COMLEX scores (if you are a DO) . My point is.... there are many people who read these forums, and out of fear, sprinkled with a tiny bit of truth, are scared into taking the USMLE, feeling as though a residency director lends no credence to COMLEX scores.......That is absurd! I would rather go somewhere that lends me the respect I deserve (as do all med students that have worked hard).

 

[cyclicamp]

Furthermore, I am not knocking my fellow DOs who have taken the exam....I applaud them for their effort and dedication. However, I am trying to dispell the pervasive mindset (and myth) on this forum that it is a must for anything other than a primary care specialty. Lastly, I do apoligize if I belittled anyones effort.....that simply was not my intent.

 

[DrSmiles]

Some of us do not have the "option" to just go anywhere and apply to areas of the country that will take the COMLEX with open arms. The west coast is just a bad and they want to see both sets of scores for whatever reason. If that is what it takes to get me to the west coast, then so be it. Sure it is another $400+ for another board exam, but that is spit in the bucket when you look at how much you already invested in your education. If someone wants a little family practice in a rural town, then yes, there is no need to take the USMLE. If you want to move to L.A. or San Francisco, then it is a necessity.

 

[cyclicamp]

Idiopathic,

Take great care when making a statement like that. You are wrongfully, irresponsibly, and most importantly, publically casting doubt on the examination that allows you to practice medicine in this country (a statement such as yours may have consequences that come back to bite you on the ass and the profession as a whole). Is the COMLEX a tough exam? sure it is but that most certainly does not mean it is unfair or lacks validity.

I will say it again.........I do not fault any DO for taking the USMLE, many did what they had to do (especially if you are from a certain geographic area). However, I am almost certain that much of what is said or insinuated on these boards concerning residency placement and the USMLE is bunk......there are impressionable students out there who need to hear the other side.

 

[BamaAlum]

Dude,
How much IS the AOA paying you?

 

[cyclicamp]

More money than you could ever imagine. In fact, I am not even a med student, I just play one......................

 

[cyclicamp]

Idiopathic,

So the COMLEX is a joke and the only real way to get ahead is to take the USMLE (because it all one big conspiracy?????)? These are the conclusions that I am drawing from your messages. Great, good job!

 

[DrMom]

So, to finish, everybdy who has taken the COMLEX realizes that it is not a fair measure of one's intellectual reasoning capabilities nor is it a measure of one's classroom acumen.

Exactly!

 

[DrQuinn]

I am almost certain that much of what is said or insinuated on these boards concerning residency placement and the USMLE is bunk......there are impressionable students out there who need to hear the other side.

I can tell you AS A FACT that at my program (an MD Emergency Medicine residency in the southeast), a DO who did NOT take the USMLE will not be considered in the same boat as a DO student who did take the USMLE. I REVIEWED applications last year for our new interns. I know what criteria the PD and the other attendings used. Believe me, taking the USMLE helps. If you are trying to get into FP or IM its not that big a deal, but for a competitive specialty, it will help.

I did not take the USMLE, but scored very well on the COMLEX. I know a DO who did very well on both the USMLE and COMLEX, and we had very similar applications. She got about a 75% interview rate, where as I only had about a 50% interview rate. I strongly believe (anecdotally in this case) that the reason she got more interviews is because she rocked on the USMLE (and scored the same as I did on the COMLEX).

Q, DO

 

[VentdependenT]

Idiopathic,

So the COMLEX is a joke and the only real way to get ahead is to take the USMLE (because it all one big conspiracy?????)? These are the conclusions that I am drawing from your messages. Great, good job!

Clueless...completely. Get off these boards please. If people are too scared to take step I then they probably will be scared about every single difficult decision that requires sacrifice in their lives. As such, they have no business being in the race for competitive residency spots...it NEVER gets easier.

USMLE Step I is a MUST. Initially I was very nervous about taking boards in general. However I started early, prepared hard, and by the time test day(s) rolled around I just wanted to get it over with. The fear was gone.

 

[cyclicamp]

Ventdependent,

How dare you tell me to get off of these boards.....who made you the self appointed police of these forums? I have tried to be respectful and have a meaningful discussion, and maybe in the course of this discussion I have upset you in some way, does this give you the right to immaturely act out toward me? Also, don't assume anything about me or anyone else for that matter who does not choose to take an exam......grow up!



I know everyone can come up with a story as to why one should take the USMLE ( and I do believe they are true) but there are also many other programs that don't do that.

 

[Doc_Thks_JC]

This thread has become somewhat of a joke like most of them become on this site. First of all, If an Osteopathic student wishes to take the USMLE because they want to level the playing field, go for a competitive residency, or just take tests, then they should have that right. I do not think there is anything wrong with taking the USMLE if you so wish and on the basis of is it needed for a competitive residency, I will agree with Quinn and the other posters that it is certainly needed. But, and there is always a but. If you plan on doing primary care such as Family med, Internal Med, Peds, Psych, or Ob Gyn then the COMLEX alone should be enough for the low to mid level programs and even some of the high programs. I am currently applying to Primary care residencies and in so doing I have yet to come in contact with a single residency that will not take the COMLEX equivalent to the USMLE. In stating that let me reassure you that I have done careful studying of residencies and if they have a history of accepting DO's or not. If you have a programs such as Vanderbilt that has not accepted a DO in the past 6 years or longer, then its probably not a good bet to apply there regardless if you took the COMLEX, USMLE, BOTH, or even the IAIMSE-- I'm An Igenious Med Student Exam. Because in the end if you have a DO after your name, your probably not getting in. Before you bash me about that shouldn't keep me from applying. That is correct and If you so wish to apply to a program such as above then I think you should do it. To shorten up my post, If you want to take the USMLE, great. If you want to take Both, great. If you want to only take the COMLEX, great. Do what you think it will take for you to achieve your goals as a physician, and tell everyong that gives you flak about it to go do a rectal exam or something.

Have a nice day!!

Med Note: "If the pt has a BNP in the 300's, then think its Pul monary in nature (COPD). If its 500's or more then think Cardiac."

PS. the only reason not to do a rectal exam on a pt is if you don't have a finger or the pt doesn't have a rectum!!!

 

[Idiopathic]

Gee, thanks for that thought-inspiring post 🙄 (sorry, I tend to get a little sarcastic about this issue).

The OP is just being a dork. As if someone devalues his experience, because he didnt take the USMLE. God forbid 20-odd people get together on an internet forum and have a different opinion than he/she does.

 

[CharlieMurphy]

Are D.O's real doctors?

 

[daisygirl]

Are D.O's real doctors?

Your post is oozing with sincerity 🙄

 

[Idiopathic]

Are D.O's real doctors?

No...better.

 

[CharlieMurphy]

You replied pretty fast. Are you on here all the time?

Time of Post: 11:18 PM CST

 

[VentdependenT]

Ahh, the true genius comes out. Welcome to SDN! Another complete waste.

By the way provincialmoniker, everyone knows that D.O.'s are bone doctors.

 

[cyclicamp]

It is great to see that people are now resorting to name calling and character attacks.....very befitting of a professional forum. For the record, I do not believe that the COMLEX can acurately assess or encapsulate a medical student(it will inevitably cater to the strengths of some for a given test), but the same goes for the USMLE. I was only trying to engage some intelligent people in a discussion that I felt warranted attention. However, people on this forum felt the need to spit venom when I disagreed with their ideology......sorry but this is America and I am entitled to that. I apoligize for trying to bring up what I thought was an important topic of discussion on a public forum entitled USMLE and COMLEX. It is one thing to disagree with an individual in a respectful manner and another to make someone feel like crap if they don't subscribe to your way of thinking.

 

[cubs3canes]

I have just been looking at at the DO score thread and this thread and I have to say that Charlie Murphy is a hater.

I do not understand your hostility towards DOs. Did one get the residency spot that you wanted? Did one steal your girlfriend? Or did you just realize that the Osteopathic profession is something that you do not understand?

If you are going to be so negative towards DOs, stay off of the forums. Your input is not adding anything.

 

[dak ness]

I have just been looking at at the DO score thread and this thread and I have to say that Charlie Murphy is a hater.

I do not understand your hostility towards DOs. Did one get the residency spot that you wanted? Did one steal your girlfriend? Or did you just realize that the Osteopathic profession is something that you do not understand?

If you are going to be so negative towards DOs, stay off of the forums. Your input is not adding anything.

dak ness speaks

i dont think my brotha c.murphy means any hate towards DO's. to be honest i think he is a little upset cus he when to see his DO last week, she didnt offer the 5 dolla sucky sucky special at the end of the massage.

show brotha dak-ness some love

 

[Discobolus]

dak ness speaks

i dont think my brotha c.murphy means any hate towards DO's. to be honest i think he is a little upset cus he when to see his DO last week, she didnt offer the 5 dolla sucky sucky special at the end of the massage.

show brotha dak-ness some love

Oh great, another one of his split personalities just showed up!

 

[DrMom]

Oh great, another one of his split personalities just showed up!

exactly. both personalities have been banned as troll and in violation of Lee Burnett's sticky in pre-osteo.

 

[starayamoskva]

When DO students talk about taking the USMLE do they usually just take the Step 1? (earlier poster mentioned 400$ cost).
Is the only reason to take it to make you more competative?
Can you opt to take the USMLE and not take the Comlex in order to save $$ or do you need the COMLEX for licencing?

 

[cyclicamp]

Idiopathic,

I do apoligize if I offended you in any way and I apoligize for my sarcasm. I only wanted to get everyones attention so we could have a meaningful discussion on the matter. However, it is frustrating when people quickly pass of the COMLEX exam as a worthless test (when it is every bit as valid and tough as the USMLE)....I still do believe that this attitude can and has been detrimental to the profession as a whole. Moreover, I do feel that people on this forum put way too much emphasis on board scores....like it or not that is my opinion. Lastly, I also feel that DOs put too much emphasis on taking the USMLE, again this is my opinion. Saying things like one must take the USMLE can be very misleading to impressionable folk(I don't recall if you said this I am only speaking in general). I have known very successful people who have matched into radiology, anesthesiology, surgery, orthopedic surgery, urology,good internal med programs, peds, ob-gyn, and other specialties with only the COMLEX....I believe an applicant is more than a single test and so do many residency directors (as it is more of a job interview process). I wish everyone the best of luck with evrything they strive for. I understand and respect your position as I hope you do mine.

My advice for those DOs seeking to enter an allopathic residency in a particular field and geographic area is to call or e-mail the programs and ask if they aqccept the COMLEX......if most of them say yes than I personally would not waste the extra time and effort in the USMLE, invest that energy in another portion of your application that will make you stand out. Take care

 

[NebelDO]

i agree with you cyclic,

at my school (nova) there were only about 20 peeps(including myself) that took the usmle, a small minority out of 175. I think you have to remember that its easy to feel like every DO student wants to or worrys about the USMLE because most DO students like myself that frequent this forum are gun ho about the usmle but all of us combined that have been on these threads are still a small fraction of the DO's as whole that dont care anything about the usmle and just take the COMLEX.
you may be right in that in the end most of the programs will take the COMLEX, but spending the money to take the USMLE just "level the playing field" in the eyes of some(not all) PD's is worth it to me.

peace out

 

[BamaAlum]

Idiopathic,

I do apoligize if I offended you in any way and I apoligize for my sarcasm. I only wanted to get everyones attention so we could have a meaningful discussion on the matter. However, it is frustrating when people quickly pass of the COMLEX exam as a worthless test (when it is every bit as valid and tough as the USMLE)....I still do believe that this attitude can and has been detrimental to the profession as a whole. Moreover, I do feel that people on this forum put way too much emphasis on board scores....like it or not that is my opinion. Lastly, I also feel that DOs put too much emphasis on taking the USMLE, again this is my opinion. Saying things like one must take the USMLE can be very misleading to impressionable folk(I don't recall if you said this I am only speaking in general). I have known very successful people who have matched into radiology, anesthesiology, surgery, orthopedic surgery, urology,good internal med programs, peds, ob-gyn, and other specialties with only the COMLEX....I believe an applicant is more than a single test and so do many residency directors (as it is more of a job interview process). I wish everyone the best of luck with evrything they strive for. I understand and respect your position as I hope you do mine.

My advice for those DOs seeking to enter an allopathic residency in a particular field and geographic area is to call or e-mail the programs and ask if they aqccept the COMLEX......if most of them say yes than I personally would not waste the extra time and effort in the USMLE, invest that energy in another portion of your application that will make you stand out. Take care

I wonder how you can make the statement that the COMLEX is every bit as hard as the USMLE when you admitted that you haven't taken the USMLE? You seem to go to great lengths to defend the COMLEX. Why shouldn't we demand a better exam? The COMLEX is exceedingly more poorly written than the USMLE. If the AOA didn't have their head up their ass they would hire professional question writers, computerize the exam and convert the scale to the same scale as the USMLE. That way PD's could have a general sense of how a DO applicant compared to an MD applicant. Although, some programs would still require the USMLE.
Anyway, the fact of the matter is that Board scores do matter, especially for the competitive specialties. A lot of programs have a cut-off score that if you do not meet they will not consider you further. Our radiology professor, who is on the selection comittee for an MD radiology program said that their first step was to highlight the USMLE score and seperate into 2 piles: those who made the cut-off and those who didn't. Whether or not COMLEX is sufficient is very region specific and often varies from program to program. Your advice to call individual programs is sound, however realize that you may change your mind as to your desired specialty after 3rd year. Taking both exams gives a DO applicant the most options plain and simple.

 

[Idiopathic]

When DO students talk about taking the USMLE do they usually just take the Step 1? (earlier poster mentioned 400$ cost).
Is the only reason to take it to make you more competative?
Can you opt to take the USMLE and not take the Comlex in order to save $$ or do you need the COMLEX for licencing?

DO students must take the COMLEX series but can elect to take USMLE, as many steps as they wish. There is a rumor that the USMLE Step 3 can sub for the COMLEX Step 3, but I have not heard confirmation on this. Regardless, if you did average on USMLE Step 1, it might be in your best interest (for a hypothetical DO student) to take Step 2 and try to blow it away, as it could enhance one's application.

 

[giznut12]

Hey...if I took USMLE Step 1, do I have to take USMLE step 2? That can turn into alot of money spent on testing now that they have the clinical skills portion of the exam on step 2.

Thanks.

 

[DireWolf]

Hey...if I took USMLE Step 1, do I have to take USMLE step 2? That can turn into alot of money spent on testing now that they have the clinical skills portion of the exam on step 2.

Thanks.

No. You are not required to take Steps 2 or 3 after completing Step 1.

 

[mpp]

There were about 3,000 2nd-year osteopathic students and about 1,000 took the USMLE Step 1 in 2002. (according to the www.usmle.org and www.aacom.org), so about 1/3 take Step 1.