Everything Neurology!

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Thank you! I have to apologize as I was away for a bit on vacation but I still have a couple outstanding posts to answer. Thank you all for your patience.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Ha I just came across this thread and it's a gold mind. I'll be starting MS1 this fall so I'm behind all of the above posters. But I'm highly interested in neuro. At least I am going into medical school.
 
Ha I just came across this thread and it's a gold mind. I'll be starting MS1 this fall so I'm behind all of the above posters. But I'm highly interested in neuro. At least I am going into medical school.
One thing I would recommend for you is to see the clinical side of neuro before MS3. I think a lot of students go into MS1 loving neuroscience and that is great, but I think they can be a bit disappointed when they that clinical neurology is significant different.

I say this because I was the opposite so I know that liking or disliking neuroscience may not always translate to how much you enjoy neurology. I didn't really like neuroscience in undergrad and MS1/2, but I loved clinical neurology.

I really wish I would have exposed myself to clinical medicine more in MS1 and MS2, so I guess my advice doesn't just apply to neuro.
 
One thing I would recommend for you is to see the clinical side of neuro before MS3. I think a lot of students go into MS1 loving neuroscience and that is great, but I think they can be a bit disappointed when they that clinical neurology is significant different.

I say this because I was the opposite so I know that liking or disliking neuroscience may not always translate to how much you enjoy neurology. I didn't really like neuroscience in undergrad and MS1/2, but I loved clinical neurology.

I really wish I would have exposed myself to clinical medicine more in MS1 and MS2, so I guess my advice doesn't just apply to neuro.

Great advice, thank you.

I majored in neuroscience in undergrad and have always loved the topics in general. I've also shadowed a neurologist during a summer and felt as if the clinical neurology I was exposed to was vastly different than the neuroscience major I was in in school. That said, I loved it. But part of me does wrestle with the notion that so much of neurology is negative in nature. But then again I'm highly interested in everything oncology and that's not much more positive. I think for me, I have a few strong interests and I can see myself doing either or in the future. Deciding on residencies will be a pain 🙁
 
Great advice, thank you.

I majored in neuroscience in undergrad and have always loved the topics in general. I've also shadowed a neurologist during a summer and felt as if the clinical neurology I was exposed to was vastly different than the neuroscience major I was in in school. That said, I loved it. But part of me does wrestle with the notion that so much of neurology is negative in nature. But then again I'm highly interested in everything oncology and that's not much more positive. I think for me, I have a few strong interests and I can see myself doing either or in the future. Deciding on residencies will be a pain 🙁
It can be as I am realizing at the moment. Nothing is perfect and there is more to consider than just one's fundamental interest.

Good luck!
 
Sorry if this was asked already, but can any neurologist pull out clots as you do, or do you have to be neurointerventionally trained?
 
Sorry if this was asked already, but can any neurologist pull out clots as you do, or do you have to be neurointerventionally trained?

You have to be fellowship trained to do it for a living but we do it during residency and possibly during related fellowships (stroke or neuro critical care).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Ha I just came across this thread and it's a gold mind. I'll be starting MS1 this fall so I'm behind all of the above posters. But I'm highly interested in neuro. At least I am going into medical school.

Great to hear! I agree with early exposure to clinical neurology. You'll love it. One thing to do is to consider joining your SIGN (student interest group in Neurology) group. If there is not one at your school then you can be a pioneer and start one which would look great on the resume and would connect you to local neurologists (your future letter of rec writers) and give you access to resources and conventions etc. good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Great advice, thank you.

I majored in neuroscience in undergrad and have always loved the topics in general. I've also shadowed a neurologist during a summer and felt as if the clinical neurology I was exposed to was vastly different than the neuroscience major I was in in school. That said, I loved it. But part of me does wrestle with the notion that so much of neurology is negative in nature. But then again I'm highly interested in everything oncology and that's not much more positive. I think for me, I have a few strong interests and I can see myself doing either or in the future. Deciding on residencies will be a pain 🙁

It's good that you are thinking about this early. It's funny because so many times I hear the neurology is negative thing from non-neurologists...ironically me and my friends are happy as clams. We help a ton of people and have many more positive then negative outcomes...I have posted previously about the investments hospitals are making in neurology (neuroscience centers, Neuro ICU, infusion centers, etc) and the fact that the lifestyle and pay are usually great. Also, as previously mentioned, we are the most in demand specialty according to practice link. Negative outcomes happen in medicine. We don't cure COPD or CHF, we don't cure macular degeneration etc...this is the case in all fields...I have so many amazing stories about people we've helped and the way it impacted them and their families. It's the most rewarding part of the job. We are major league doctors in that we deal with the most complicated diseases known to human kind and that comes with occasional poor outcomes but I can tell you that when you meet neurologic illness on the playground after school and take it down there is not a better feeling out there. Also if you like oncology consider neuro oncology (a one year fellowship after neuro)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
It's good that you are thinking about this early. It's funny because so many times I hear the neurology is negative thing from non-neurologists...ironically me and my friends are happy as clams. We help a ton of people and have many more positive then negative outcomes...I have posted previously about the investments hospitals are making in neurology (neuroscience centers, Neuro ICU, infusion centers, etc) and the fact that the lifestyle and pay are usually great. Also, as previously mentioned, we are the most in demand specialty according to practice link. Negative outcomes happen in medicine. We don't cure COPD or CHF, we don't cure macular degeneration etc...this is the case in all fields...I have so many amazing stories about people we've helped and the way it impacted them and their families. It's the most rewarding part of the job. We are major league doctors in that we deal with the most complicated diseases known to human kind and that comes with occasional poor outcomes but I can tell you that when you meet neurologic illness on the playground after school and take it down there is not a better feeling out there. Also if you like oncology consider neuro oncology (a one year fellowship after neuro)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

If you were to do something like neuroimmuno, will you be pigeonholed into being an MS only doc or could you still do hospitalist/outpt work? Thank you for all the replies. I think you're single-handedly making a lot of us consider the field
 
If you were to do something like neuroimmuno, will you be pigeonholed into being an MS only doc or could you still do hospitalist/outpt work? Thank you for all the replies. I think you're single-handedly making a lot of us consider the field

I agree. I was considering neurology and psych when I started med school, but after hearing from physicians 'diagnose and adios', I kind of back off a little bit. Now this thread kind of put me back on again, but I am at a disadvantage with a low step1 score (215-220), and I won't be able to do a subI before submitting my application if I decide to apply neurology. Well, I will have to do more research to see if I have a good shot at it and go from there...
 
I agree. I was considering neurology and psych when I started med school, but after hearing from physicians 'diagnose and adios', I kind of back off a little bit. Now this thread kind of put me back on again, but I am at a disadvantage with a low step1 score (215-220), and I won't be able to do a subI before submitting my application if I decide to apply neurology. Well, I will have to do more research to see if I have a good shot at it and go from there...

You love Psych and 215-220 is enough to become a Psychiatrist if you apply broadly
 
What is the best Clinical Neuroscience/Neurology textbook for the MS-3- Intern level person on a Neuro rotation?
 
Yeah I do... I had an 'A' on my psych rotation, but my attending did not write a single comment in the 'comment section' of my eval... Lol

3rd year Clerkship grades mean nothing.... I am convinced.

Do whatever you can to get an interview... Once you're at the interview, just convince them that you are someone they can get along with for 4 years.
 
What is the best Clinical Neuroscience/Neurology textbook for the MS-3- Intern level person on a Neuro rotation?

Most of our third year students use the blueprints book. Admittedly I am a bit removed from that part of training so I'm not sure if there's a new great resource out there.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I too appreciate this thread and have enjoyed all the positive comments about the field. I am a 3rd year Osteopathic student and I am currently researching neurology programs. I have found thus far that there are an abundance of fantastic programs, many of which accept and have graduated osteopaths. As a DO I do not see myself as an outsider to the Allopathic world, as I have contributed to allopathic institutions throughout my career. Unfortunately, the AOA does not provide an adequate amount of neurology residencies, and as such most D.O.s considering neurology will have to match into an ACGME program. I thought I would share my perspective and how I came to neurology for those considering the field.

I found neuroscience to be the most challenging course my first year of medical school, and during undergrad lacked the maturity and insight to properly grasp the concepts. During my second year, our clinical neurology course was one that inspired me and engaged me more than the others and I did quite well in the class. On my third year rotations, I not only "honored" in Neurology, receiving very high marks for my performance from my preceptor, but was introduced to neurology research opportunities (which I am currently involved with) and a letter of recommendation from a locally renowned neurologist. I could go on and on about why I think it is a great field, many points of which have been elaborated on in this thread. Most importantly for me - it just felt right, and I am very glad to have had the opportunity to by chance have gotten a neurology clerkship early in my 3rd year.

My advice for aspiring neurologists who don't have stellar scores or a ton of research experience is the same as for pre-med students - don't give up. My school has alumni in a variety of neurology programs and they did not boast super high board scores or a long list of publications. This a relatively non-competitive field and there are opportunities out there for all of us to reach for. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
I'm feeling very bullish about neurology and it was my second favorite rotation after IM. It is dubbed as the intellectual specialty as of now, similar to Cards in the 1900s. Does anyone know how poised Interventional Neurology is to use technology and gain space with interventional procedures that lead to overall mortality benefit? What about other fields of neurology like epilepsy and MS?
 
@Neuro Storm thanks for making this thread!

I have actually heard a very optimistic vision of the direction neuro is heading, both in terms of patient prognosis and physician compensation. I think this is usually attributed to all of the new research methods and such. Do you agree with this perspective?
 
I get that, but honestly most of medicine is a losing battle. Nobody cures diabetes, COPD, asthma, Chrons, Celiac, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. The list goes on and on in medicine too. I agree with you that it might be a little worse in neuro, but since I find the bread and butter of neuro more interesting I can tolerate it. Also, I may be naive, but I do think there will be exciting changes coming to neuro over the course of my career. Look at recent developments like DBS for PD or ultrasound thalamotomy for essential tremor.
Watching a video of a patient with advanced PD before and after DBS is the closest thing to magic I've ever seen. It's truly amazing.
 
I haven't yet started medical school, but am planning to apply this June/July, as I am currently studying for the brutal MCAT. My interests are something I need guidance and help with as I've been contemplating for some time. From any people who are really familiar with the space of Neuroscience and neurology and how it relates to Consciousness studies I would really appreciate your feedback. Others who really know the neurology space as well I would appreciate your feedback as well any help is needed!

My deep interests and passions lie in learning about neuroscience (i.e. neuroanatomy, neurotransmitters), but more specifically, how neuroscience connects back to consciousness. I would absolutely love to have my efforts focused towards studying neuroscience as it relates to consciousness and altered states of consciousness (i.e. meditation, states of sleep-if you consider these altered states, drugs such as marijuana, LSD, stimulants). In addition, I do also love learning about sleep disorders, but not the most common ones you would see as a sleep medicine doctor such as sleep apnea, and insomnia. I like more of the exotic types such as narcolepsy, somnambulism, sleep talking, sleep paralysis, and how these would have a neuroscience correlate. I've also always had an interest in the more "taboo" or "non-mainstream/socially accepted" subjects such as parapsychology (Out of body experiences, Near Death experiences, lucid dreaming, astral projection) and how these once again can be related/traced back to neuroscience. For instance, Dr.Rick Strassman (MD), wrote a fascinating book called "DMT-The spirit molecule", which looked at how the drug DMT affects people and what they experienced. Essentially he looked at how it related back to the brain, and what people's experiences were (looked at pineal gland in relation to secretion of DMT, along with many other things I'm not mentioning). Moreover, my interests would be in how we can link neuroscience to metaphysical phenomenon as I mentioned above, such as out of body experiences. How can the brain be used and or/studied as an intermediate or tool between this world and spiritual/metaphysical experiences. I did some research as an undergrad but never in a neuroscience setting so I'm not sure exactly what it would be like if I do in fact choose to pursue a Ph.D in neuroscience. I know that the stability, certainty, and salary of a Ph.D differ substantially from an MD and that's what scares me. I'm concerned that if I do in fact pursue neurology since I have a passion for the brain, I might not find the work as satisfying intellectually or rather personally to keep me interested. As you mentioned you could research it on the side on your own, but it's not the same as being very involved in the space. You would be more inclined to diagnosing as doing long assessments of patients to treat more bread and butter cases such as dementia, Alzheimer's disease, stroke, epilepsy, MS, Parkinson's disease, and headaches/migraines.

Moreover, I have done volunteer work for 3 years or so at UCLA Santa Monica medical center/Ronald Regan medical center/Kaiser/and at a hospice (worked with mostly Alzheimer's and dementia patients) and found the experience of talking with patients to be somewhat interesting (at times). I mean I don't love working/treating patients, but I don't hate it either. I'm in the middle, and I don't know if that would be enough to keep me going through med school considering my passionate interests. I'm worried about if med school will be something that I will stick with or say half way screw it I don't want to do this. I'm an extrovert for the most part and do connect with people and like making them feel good and smile, but I don't know if diagnosing and treating diseases is something I'd be passionate about. Nowadays in our society (California) I hardly find anybody who's "passionate" about what they do, and I think it's a cliche at this point. At the same time, however, the job prospects for Ph.D's who want to get a tenure-track or remain as a basic science researcher are quite daunting. I'm debating whether to pursue an MD route or a Ph.D route, but am not sure at the current moment as I am really trying to pinpoint what exactly my passion about neuroscience is. I think the above description gives a great overall idea, however. I'm wondering if an MD-Ph.D would be better route such that if the research doesn't pan out (not enough funding since my interests aren't exactly mainstream or clinically applicable/socially acceptable), I would have the M.D. to fall back on. As I said I like working with people and socializing with them but don't know if I would really be as passionate with it as I am more interested in learning about neuroscience.

There may have been some things left out that would give you guys a bigger picture of where I'm coming from, but at this moment in time I'd really appreciate some feedback as to help guide me in the right direction. Feel free to ask me questions that might make it easier for you to help me. Thank you very much!
 
How about we discuss what effect Elon Musk's new company "Neuralink" might have on the field in the next 10-20 years. His ability to get things done that people would otherwise think impossible never ceases to amaze me. Do you have any thoughts on his new venture? Here is a (very long) waitbutwhy post explaining what it's all about: http://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html
 
Neuro Storm you have some wonderful responses to lots of these questions. I was wondering, in regards to a sub-specialized neurologist in sleep, what is a realistic annual salary? To be more specific, if you are practicing in Los Angeles, CA, or in the San Fernando Valley, CA as an outpatient neurologist who is also sub-specialized in sleep (sees sleep patients/read's EEG studies or tests twice a week) and sees general neurology patients 3 times a week, what would be an entry level salary fresh out of residency and sub-specialty training? I've heard and read that entry level neurologists start off anywhere from 220k-250k and that sub-specializing in sleep can bump you up to 300k or so. What are your thoughts and opinions on this as I am very interested to see what you have to say?

P.S. Can you also look at the post I made on May 5th of this year (post # 74) as I would love to get your feedback.

Thank you
 
I haven't yet started medical school, but am planning to apply this June/July, as I am currently studying for the brutal MCAT. My interests are something I need guidance and help with as I've been contemplating for some time. From any people who are really familiar with the space of Neuroscience and neurology and how it relates to Consciousness studies I would really appreciate your feedback. Others who really know the neurology space as well I would appreciate your feedback as well any help is needed!

My deep interests and passions lie in learning about neuroscience (i.e. neuroanatomy, neurotransmitters), but more specifically, how neuroscience connects back to consciousness. I would absolutely love to have my efforts focused towards studying neuroscience as it relates to consciousness and altered states of consciousness (i.e. meditation, states of sleep-if you consider these altered states, drugs such as marijuana, LSD, stimulants). In addition, I do also love learning about sleep disorders, but not the most common ones you would see as a sleep medicine doctor such as sleep apnea, and insomnia. I like more of the exotic types such as narcolepsy, somnambulism, sleep talking, sleep paralysis, and how these would have a neuroscience correlate. I've also always had an interest in the more "taboo" or "non-mainstream/socially accepted" subjects such as parapsychology (Out of body experiences, Near Death experiences, lucid dreaming, astral projection) and how these once again can be related/traced back to neuroscience. For instance, Dr.Rick Strassman (MD), wrote a fascinating book called "DMT-The spirit molecule", which looked at how the drug DMT affects people and what they experienced. Essentially he looked at how it related back to the brain, and what people's experiences were (looked at pineal gland in relation to secretion of DMT, along with many other things I'm not mentioning). Moreover, my interests would be in how we can link neuroscience to metaphysical phenomenon as I mentioned above, such as out of body experiences. How can the brain be used and or/studied as an intermediate or tool between this world and spiritual/metaphysical experiences. I did some research as an undergrad but never in a neuroscience setting so I'm not sure exactly what it would be like if I do in fact choose to pursue a Ph.D in neuroscience. I know that the stability, certainty, and salary of a Ph.D differ substantially from an MD and that's what scares me. I'm concerned that if I do in fact pursue neurology since I have a passion for the brain, I might not find the work as satisfying intellectually or rather personally to keep me interested. As you mentioned you could research it on the side on your own, but it's not the same as being very involved in the space. You would be more inclined to diagnosing as doing long assessments of patients to treat more bread and butter cases such as dementia, Alzheimer's disease, stroke, epilepsy, MS, Parkinson's disease, and headaches/migraines.

Moreover, I have done volunteer work for 3 years or so at UCLA Santa Monica medical center/Ronald Regan medical center/Kaiser/and at a hospice (worked with mostly Alzheimer's and dementia patients) and found the experience of talking with patients to be somewhat interesting (at times). I mean I don't love working/treating patients, but I don't hate it either. I'm in the middle, and I don't know if that would be enough to keep me going through med school considering my passionate interests. I'm worried about if med school will be something that I will stick with or say half way screw it I don't want to do this. I'm an extrovert for the most part and do connect with people and like making them feel good and smile, but I don't know if diagnosing and treating diseases is something I'd be passionate about. Nowadays in our society (California) I hardly find anybody who's "passionate" about what they do, and I think it's a cliche at this point. At the same time, however, the job prospects for Ph.D's who want to get a tenure-track or remain as a basic science researcher are quite daunting. I'm debating whether to pursue an MD route or a Ph.D route, but am not sure at the current moment as I am really trying to pinpoint what exactly my passion about neuroscience is. I think the above description gives a great overall idea, however. I'm wondering if an MD-Ph.D would be better route such that if the research doesn't pan out (not enough funding since my interests aren't exactly mainstream or clinically applicable/socially acceptable), I would have the M.D. to fall back on. As I said I like working with people and socializing with them but don't know if I would really be as passionate with it as I am more interested in learning about neuroscience.

There may have been some things left out that would give you guys a bigger picture of where I'm coming from, but at this moment in time I'd really appreciate some feedback as to help guide me in the right direction. Feel free to ask me questions that might make it easier for you to help me. Thank you very much!

I can so relate to your post, and I myself have been facing similar struggles, trying to decide between psych and neuro. Let me know how did things work out for you
 
Top