Evidence PDs want you to take the USMLE as DO student?

[sunshinefl]

I was getting info on the programs I am applying to and MULTIPLE said osteopathic applications will not be reviewed without a USMLE step 1 AND step 2 ck score.

Take the test everyone. Don't risk your future over being lazy and or 700$ (or whatever it costs) saved

What specialty?

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[Goro]

Ah the ‘good standardized test taking’ genes. People are just born with them.

Just like there are people with 90 mph fastball genes!

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Ah the ‘good standardized test taking’ genes. People are just born with them.

Bruh this is a thing if you’ve ever studied with any other person before lol. There are med student that no matter how hard they study and review just won’t ever be 250+s on step. (And related to what goro said for 99% of us we can play baseball and train as much as we want but won’t ever hit a 90mph fastball). Then there are people who study UFAPs for 5 weeks take every weekend off and get a 260. Obvi those are two ends of the spectrum but if all it took was “working hard” to get a 260 then basically everyone would have a 260 bc 90%+ med students are grinding their ass off during dedicated. To ignore that is to ignore reality.

 

[libertyyne]

Bruh this is a thing if you’ve ever studied with any other person before lol. There are med student that no matter how hard they study and review just won’t ever be 250+s on step. (And related to what goro said for 99% of us we can play baseball and train as much as we want but won’t ever hit a 90mph fastball). Then there are people who study UFAPs for 5 weeks take every weekend off and get a 260. Obvi those are two ends of the spectrum but if all it took was “working hard” to get a 260 then basically everyone would have a 260 bc 90%+ med students are grinding their ass off during dedicated. To ignore that is to ignore reality.

I am of the opinion that for most people their upper limit is already established by the time they waltz into dedicated. Grinding consistently during the first two years is what determines that.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I am of the opinion that for most people their upper limit is already established by the time they waltz into dedicated. Grinding consistently during the first two years is what determines that.

Agree. Dedicated is for fine tuning the stuff you were supposed to already know. I only increased my actual knowledge base by maybe 10%. It’s much more about what you do before dedicated.

 

[DNC127]

What specialty?

Brothropedics

 

[Sardonix]

Brothropedics

If you were talking community IM or FM that would be news. Ortho, that's basically expected. Anesthesia, EM, and anything more competitive than that will require Steps.

 

[DNC127]

If you were talking community IM or FM that would be news. Ortho, that's basically expected. Anesthesia, EM, and anything more competitive than that will require Steps.

That is a lot of fields lol

What is less competitive that ER and gas?

community IM,FM, path, peds, pmnr?

Cool if you are applying to 4ish specialties you don't need step. Otherwise my point still stands.

 

[Sardonix]

That is a lot of fields lol

What is less competitive that ER and gas?

community IM,FM, path, peds, pmnr?

Cool if you are applying to 4ish specialties you don't need step. Otherwise my point still stands.

I'm not disagreeing? My point is that needing step for anything but the safe fields you mentioned isn't shocking, or at least it shouldn't be to anyone minimal research into the matter.

 

[Alkain]

I wonder if they just lumped all the KCU scores in with KU's because everyone just thinks we go to KU anyway.

I'm curious if people at those schools like BCM or Mayo are just prone to greatness, or if they are provided opportunities and have stronger curricula that lead to 245 averages lol. Probably both but still interesting nonetheless.

I mean, it stands to reason students that get 4.0s and 520 MCATs are strong students and therefore do better in medical school/step.

That is a lot of fields lol

What is less competitive that ER and gas?

community IM,FM, path, peds, pmnr?

Cool if you are applying to 4ish specialties you don't need step. Otherwise my point still stands.

Anes actually had a higher match % for DOs than peds and much higher than pm&r.

If you look at the charting outcomes for the osteo match, 35 people didn't take step for anes, 10 of those didn't match. So ~30% didn't match without step.
Anes was 10/35 or 70% match
EM was 31/142 so 78% match
Peds was 31/210 or 85% match
FM was 38/385 or 90% match
PM&R was 28/78 or 64% match
Path was 3/16 or 81% match

So it looks like out of all those, PM&R might be the most difficult to match followed by EM and then anes/path/peds/fm.

Overall, the match % was
Anes 90.2%
EM 81.9%
Peds: 88.7%
FM: 90.6%
PM&R: 66.9%
Path: 93%

So based off limited data, taking Step helps the most with improving match chances in Anes followed by path and then EM/peds/PM&R/FM.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Agree. Dedicated is for fine tuning the stuff you were supposed to already know. I only increased my actual knowledge base by maybe 10%. It’s much more about what you do before dedicated.

Although, I heard of people that have increased their score from a 170 (NBME practice tests) to a 250 during the 3 months period of dedicated.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Although, I heard of people that have increased their score from a 170 (NBME practice tests) to a 250 during the 3 months period of dedicated.

It’s mostly just getting used to the style. Nbme scales are absolutely ruthless for most people. And that baseline is usually the first comprehensive exam of the first two years that people take. Even still that seems like an outlier, and I have friends who scored in the 220s who never passed a single nbme

Also, who the eff gets 3 months for dedicated!? Yeah I could see increasing your knowledge quite a bit if your school leaves you alone that long lol.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

It’s mostly just getting used to the style. Nbme scales are absolutely ruthless for most people. And that baseline is usually the first comprehensive exam of the first two years that people take. Even still that seems like an outlier, and I have friends who scored in the 220s who never passed a single nbme

Also, who the eff gets 3 months for dedicated!? Yeah I could see increasing your knowledge quite a bit if your school leaves you alone that long lol.

Some MD schools have 3 months for dedicated. My school (DO) gives us close to 3 months as well. We get done first week of April and we have till end of June to take it.

 

[Giovanotto]

Some MD schools have 3 months for dedicated. My school (DO) gives us close to 3 months as well. We get done first week of April and we have till end of June to take it.

This right here is why I have an issue with people claiming step is the great equalizer. If you're not going to standardize all other circumstances around the exam then you're not going to end up with a standard product. There are schools that give students 3-4 weeks for dedicated. It's an exam largely based off of memorization, so the more time you have, the better you can do. A quick look at my Uworld heuristics for both step 1 and step 2 shows an positive correlation over time with my practice blocks score.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Some MD schools have 3 months for dedicated. My school (DO) gives us close to 3 months as well. We get done first week of April and we have till end of June to take it.

My school gave us 6 weeks and I thought my eyes were going to bleed. I was just spinning my wheels after 4 weeks but couldn’t move my test up. Don’t do that. Take a vacation on that last month.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

My school gave us 6 weeks and I thought my eyes were going to bleed. I was just spinning my wheels after 4 weeks but couldn’t move my test up. Don’t do that. Take a vacation on that last month.

Yeah there is zero reason to have a 3 month dedicated. I’m of the opinion you are actually hurting yourself the longer you delay taking it after 6 weeks of dedicated. 6 weeks should be the max people take.

 

[libertyyne]

This right here is why I have an issue with people claiming step is the great equalizer. If you're not going to standardize all other circumstances around the exam then you're not going to end up with a standard product. There are schools that give students 3-4 weeks for dedicated. It's an exam largely based off of memorization, so the more time you have, the better you can do. A quick look at my Uworld heuristics for both step 1 and step 2 shows an positive correlation over time with my practice blocks score.

People can ask how much dedicated they have prior to matriculation.

There is some increase in score by going to m3 step one testing but not greater than 10 points. There is also a downside to this since you don't have your score in time to make significant changes to your app so your app might be Ortho centric with research and now you have a 220. Or your app might be family and now you have a 260 with derm fever.


There is some evidence that indicates dedicated time greater than 8 weeks do not lead to increase in scores .
Would you rather the use school name as the eval tool?

Some MD schools have 3 months for dedicated. My school (DO) gives us close to 3 months as well. We get done first week of April and we have till end of June to take it.

Imgs have all the time in world yet are unable to get 280s and on average have worse scores compared to USMDs.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

My school gave us 6 weeks and I thought my eyes were going to bleed. I was just spinning my wheels after 4 weeks but couldn’t move my test up. Don’t do that. Take a vacation on that last month.

Yeah there is zero reason to have a 3 month dedicated. I’m of the opinion you are actually hurting yourself the longer you delay taking it after 6 weeks of dedicated. 6 weeks should be the max people take.

I agree more time doesn't necessarily mean higher Step score, but it's nice to have a break/vacation between taking that monster test and rotations.

 

[Giovanotto]

Ok, cool. I don't want to hear any of you jokers complain about how IMGs get years to prepare for step then. Sounds good?

 

[libertyyne]

Ok, cool. I don't want to hear any of you jokers complain about how IMGs get years to prepare for step then. Sounds good?

Anyone who is complaining hasn't looked at the actual numbers. Also D.O students get the flexibility to take it after 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Giovanotto]

Anyone who is complaining hasn't looked at the actual numbers. Also D.O students get the flexibility to take it after 2nd or 3rd.

Enlighten me.

 

[Sardonix]

Anyone who is complaining hasn't looked at the actual numbers. Also D.O students get the flexibility to take it after 2nd or 3rd.

That's not really an advantage. People who can study for COMLEX, go onto rotation while simultaneously studying appropriately for step AND doing well on rotations are the exception, not the rule.

I would never tell someone to put off taking step till middle of third year unless they absolutely had to.

 

[Thelonious Chunk]

Anyone who is complaining hasn't looked at the actual numbers. Also D.O students get the flexibility to take it after 2nd or 3rd.

RVU does not have this flexibility

 

[libertyyne]

That's not really an advantage. People who can study for COMLEX, go onto rotation while simultaneously studying appropriately for step AND doing well on rotations are the exception, not the rule.

I would never tell someone to put off taking step till middle of third year unless they absolutely had to.

I'm sorry, but you have the option. That is an advantage. MD students would have to take a leave of abscense or just take the thing if they had a score >200 on nbme. regardless of if they felt ready or not. Just like having to take comlex is a disadvantage, having flexibility in taking step is an advantage.

RVU does not have this flexibility

yes, this is an exception.

 

[libertyyne]

Enlighten me.

1. They have a 80% pass rate vs 95.

look at the ratio of students that went unmatched and their step scores, the average for USIMG =~218 with non US IMG ~228. These numbers do not incorporate the failed applicants which would drastically drag the average down, since if you have a board failure you are not even applying.

US MD average is closer to ~230.

 

[trundlethegreat]

Yeah there is zero reason to have a 3 month dedicated. I’m of the opinion you are actually hurting yourself the longer you delay taking it after 6 weeks of dedicated. 6 weeks should be the max people take.

"The Step 1 Scores significantly correlated with the CBSE taken immediately preceding the dedicated study period (r=0.711, P=<0.001), UWorld Question Bank (UWorld) percentage correct (r = 0.622, P<0.001), straight As during first-year (r=0.356, P=0.001), and financial need (r=0.318, P=0.01). The scores were not correlated with age, gender, Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT), prior medical training, number of days studied, or the students' perception of appropriate time studied." A Predictive Model for USMLE Step 1 Scores

If you are looking at 8+ weeks of dedicated, the marginal benefit of each extra hour studied gets smaller and smaller and eventually plateaus.

I'm sorry, but you have the option. That is an advantage. MD students would have to take a leave of abscense or just take the thing if they had a score >200 on nbme. regardless of if they felt ready or not. Just like having to take comlex is a disadvantage, having flexibility in taking step is an advantage.


yes, this is an exception.

Yeah I mean flexibility by itself is an advantage, but if you don't feel ready after your preclinical ed, I'm not sure there should be a lot of confidence in putting it off til 3rd year.

 

[deleted978973]

View attachment 277914
1. They have a 80% pass rate vs 95.
View attachment 277915
look at the ratio of students that went unmatched and their step scores, the average for USIMG =~218 with non US IMG ~228. These numbers do not incorporate the failed applicants which would drastically drag the average down, since if you have a board failure you are not even applying.
View attachment 277916
US MD average is closer to ~230.

How the hell do people get so many volunteer experiences?

 

[Ho0v-man]

I'm sorry, but you have the option. That is an advantage. MD students would have to take a leave of abscense or just take the thing if they had a score >200 on nbme. regardless of if they felt ready or not. Just like having to take comlex is a disadvantage, having flexibility in taking step is an advantage.


yes, this is an exception.

The select few that choose to do a fellow year in anatomy/omm/etc can use the extra time too. I know a few who planned to chill for a month or two and then literally put 6 months into step 1 for whatever reason.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

How the hell do people get so many volunteer experiences?

Easy, you go to every single community outreach events your school is doing. There's lots of those to go around from community Health fair, to mentor programs, to Health screening events, to social medicine events etc... Multiple volunteering experiences doesn't necessarily means they're putting a lot of hours doing them.

 

[deleted978973]

Easy, you go to every single community outreach events your school is doing. There's lots of those to go around from community Health fair, to mentor programs, to Health screening events, to social medicine events etc... Multiple volunteering experiences doesn't necessarily means they're putting a lot of hours doing them.

Does ERAS not ask for experience hours like AMCAS/AACOMAS does? Just experience and description?

 

[DNC127]

Does ERAS not ask for experience hours like AMCAS/AACOMAS does? Just experience and description?

they have hours

 

[deleted978973]

they have hours

What is considered a good number of hours for a volunteer activity? 20? 50? Surely not 100+ like pre-med was...

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What is considered a good number of hours for a volunteer activity? 20? 50? Surely not 100+ like pre-med was...

Volunteering hours doesn't really matter as much. It's just nice to have, but doesn't really have a lot of weight on your residency application.

 

[DNC127]

What is considered a good number of hours for a volunteer activity? 20? 50? Surely not 100+ like pre-med was...

I would judge you if you had over like 50+ true volunteering hours... unless you have some sort of cause you are REALLY passionate about