Exams?

[Weirdy]

Just got out of a graduate medical mycology exam.

Studied my ass off, felt I knew pathologies/drugs/ other stuff well enough to recite from memory and see the patterns.

Exam had 40% minute details. Felt unprepared despite putting in the hours.

Will podiatry school have old practice exams to practice through? This course was a mix of both brute memorization and application (given so and so scenario, cite correct etiology, symptoms, treatment). Average was 75 on 1st exam and I scored exactly that. A bit frustrated with amount of work put in versus results.

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[bobtheweazel]

I think this is exactly how most people in my class feel for most exams. Heck, the average for our physio final exam we just had was like a 72—though for most of our exams the average is around 80.

Not sure about the other schools, but at Temple at least they switched to computerized exams a couple of years ago and started actually making an effort to sequester the questions. So the most recent exam questions that we may have access to for most of our exams are at least a few years old—though there are exceptions, such as LEA practicals. Also, they're constantly making new quiz/test questions, with very few repeated every year.

For histology and LEA, when we review a quiz/exam, they're strict about no electronic devices out, no paper, etc. so that the questions and answers cannot be copied down. For physiology, there isn't even a review. Your only chance to see the questions is during the exam.

So the backexams available at Temple are gonna be farther and farther back each year. 5 or so years from now, most of the content incoming students will have access to will be nearly 10 years old and probably for the most part useless.

You'll just have to figure out how to learn ridiculous amounts of information in a variety of subjects week after week. Definitely only focus on exactly what the professor says to know, don't try to go above and beyond, and you'll make it through.

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[bobtheweazel]

Oh, our upperclassmen also sell practice questions and other study materials that they say some of their best students have put together. I've had mixed results with them, some being quite helpful and some being a waste, so I just do my own thing now and don't really pay attention to the study material I've gotten from upperclassmen, new study material that they try to sell, or old exams that may or may not be in circulation.

You'll find something that works for you. You'll have to. Whatever it is, just stick with that.

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[plant based]

Panicking about next year is probably going to be unproductive but i can't help but do it anyway

 

[bobtheweazel]

The thing is, virtually everyone gets through the classes. Who can say whether you'll be in the top of your class or the bottom. But statistically, you'll get through. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Trust me, the relatively few people who do fail our classes are not the types of people to be concerned about it—they literally do not care about failing. The simple fact that you care will drive you to get through in the first place or at least figure out a way to get through if things start going South.

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[Weirdy]

The thing is, virtually everyone gets through the classes. Who can say whether you'll be in the top of your class or the bottom. But statistically, you'll get through. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Trust me, the relatively few people who do fail our classes are not the types of people to be concerned about it—they literally do not care about failing. The simple fact that you care will drive you to get through in the first place or at least figure out a way to get through if things start going South.

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Appreciate it Bob.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

The thing is, virtually everyone gets through the classes. Who can say whether you'll be in the top of your class or the bottom. But statistically, you'll get through. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Trust me, the relatively few people who do fail our classes are not the types of people to be concerned about it—they literally do not care about failing. The simple fact that you care will drive you to get through in the first place or at least figure out a way to get through if things start going South.

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How did these people get into pod school in the first place? haha

 

[feetsreets]

How did these people get into pod school in the first place? haha

No offense to pod School, but the stats to get in isn't exactly a high bar.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

No offense to pod School, but the stats to get in isn't exactly a high bar.

Im probably just venting cause I'm in the middle of studying for the MCAT and hope I don't ruin my future by blowing it haha

 

[feetsreets]

Im probably just venting cause I'm in the middle of studying for the MCAT and hope I don't ruin my future by blowing it haha

Nawww man, if pod school is what you are aiming for, then honestly just relax. Study hard and do the best you can do, but don't get hung up on an MCAT score. Again,not to knock pod school down, but The range of MCAT scores vary a lot from very very low, to some very high get you in a great MD school type scores. But the fact of the matter is if the average for pod school is still pretty low and not worth stressing out over. As long as your GPA is ok, and have done some shadowing, you will get in somewhere.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Just got out of a graduate medical mycology exam.

Studied my ass off, felt I knew pathologies/drugs/ other stuff well enough to recite from memory and see the patterns.

Exam had 40% minute details. Felt unprepared despite putting in the hours.

Will podiatry school have old practice exams to practice through? This course was a mix of both brute memorization and application (given so and so scenario, cite correct etiology, symptoms, treatment). Average was 75 on 1st exam and I scored exactly that. A bit frustrated with amount of work put in versus results.

I have some exposure to the exams for the MD/DO schools from close friends. I think a grad class such as yours can be tough because they are taught at a PhD level and it depends a lot on the prof & his/her lec ppts, whereas in Pod school, I believe the questions will be more clinically relevant to podiatry and the boards. So, it should be fun and interesting in Pod school to learn and apply the material because they might be like cases.

I could be wrong but I really hope that's how it is in pod school.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I have some exposure to the exams for the MD/DO schools from close friends. I think a grad class such as yours can be tough because they are taught at a PhD level and it depends a lot on the prof & his/her lec ppts, whereas in Pod school, I believe the questions will be more clinically relevant to podiatry and the boards. So, it should be fun and interesting in Pod school to learn and apply the material because they might be like cases.

I could be wrong but I really hope that's how it is in pod school.

Probably depends on the pod school and the specific subject. Some of the topics in the curriculums are scientifically important concepts but aren't directly relevant to medicine—though they may be important to understanding other concepts which are directly important to medicine. So some topics might not be workable into neat clinical questions while others may be. So far in the first year at Temple a majority of the questions are straight up science questions as if you were taking a graduate course and a minority of questions are clinically oriented. I assume there will be a shift towards more clinical type questions as we go on.

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[Weirdy]

I have some exposure to the exams for the MD/DO schools from close friends. I think a grad class such as yours can be tough because they are taught at a PhD level and it depends a lot on the prof & his/her lec ppts, whereas in Pod school, I believe the questions will be more clinically relevant to podiatry and the boards. So, it should be fun and interesting in Pod school to learn and apply the material because they might be like cases.

I could be wrong but I really hope that's how it is in pod school.

Probably depends on the pod school and the specific subject. Some of the topics in the curriculums are scientifically important concepts but aren't directly relevant to medicine—though they may be important to understanding other concepts which are directly important to medicine. So some topics might not be workable into neat clinical questions while others may be. So far in the first year at Temple a majority of the questions are straight up science questions as if you were taking a graduate course and a minority of questions are clinically oriented. I assume there will be a shift towards more clinical type questions as we go on.

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The content has been pretty good stuff but is more akin to a hard science class.

I believe there will always be a trade-off between lecturing to teach versus lecturing to perform for boards.

Both are important but in Masters/PhD tracks they tend to lecture to teach. For health programs it seems to be 80/20 split with board prep mostly done outside of coursework?

 

[bobtheweazel]

There is somewhat of a disconnect between what exactly a school will teach and what exactly the boards expect you to know, although there shouldn't theoretically be much of a difference since every board question is written by a professor from one of the schools.

Boards are attempting to test whether you're competent to practice whereas the schools are attempting to prepare you for the next stage of your education/training. There is a lot of overlap there, but the schools and the NBPME aren't 100% on the same page.

So yes, I would say schools probably give the students a solid foundation but much of the board prep is up to the student on their own time.

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[bobtheweazel]

No offense to pod School, but the stats to get in isn't exactly a high bar.

I think you'll all be pleasantly surprised with the caliber of student in the schools. They're certainly not the drooling, incapable, troglodytes that the forums would have you believe.

If the average college GPA is around 3.1 and the average biology major's GPA is around a 3.0 (59% of prepods are biology majors), then the "average" pod matriculant with a cGPA=3.4 and sGPA=3.3 (2015 stats) would be "above average" as far as the national college population goes. Furthermore, this isn't taking into account grade forgiveness for these pod stats, which the national GPA results almost certainly do since that's standard practice at almost every college/university. Also, this isn't taking into account the millions of Americans who don't attend college at all.

The average college student is probably more insert criteria here than the average US citizen. The average pod student is a step above that. And we all agree that the average MD student is yet another step above that—but don't let that detract from the fact that the average pod student is still well above average.

The last thing is that the MD 4 year graduation rate is about 81%, while the DPM 4 year graduation rate is about 80%. For most of the podiatry schools, a large percentage of the curriculum is shared with MD or DO schools, so the courses are comparable in difficulty and people are failing all types of programs at a similar rate. I would argue that the bar being low doesn't have anything to do with how many people fail out, unless you're also saying the bar is too low for MD schools. I would assume its more that a small subset of the matriculants just lose motivation or something else changes and this occurs in MD and DPM students.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ge-grade-inflation-what-does-an-mean/3662003/
http://blog.prepscholar.com/average-college-gpa-by-major
http://www.aacpm.org/wp-content/uploads/2017-2018-CIB_DIGITAL-FINAL.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/37922...onratesandattritionfactorsforusmedschools.pdf

 

[DexterMorganSK]

@bobtheweazel

Were your 1st-year exam questions similar to any of these questions (usmle step 1 ques) or mixed? In the previous post, I was referring to ques like the 3rd one. Thanks!

 

[bobtheweazel]

@bobtheweazel

Were your 1st-year exam questions similar to any of these questions (usmle step 1 ques) or mixed? In the previous post, I was referring to ques like the 3rd one. Thanks!



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The majority of the questions so far have been like your first two examples. The minority like your third example.

There have been clinical questions in anatomy, though not quite as complex as your third example. I remember one in particular that tripped people up was about a gunshot victim. The bullet pierced the right chest parasternally around the 5th rib and exited the back of the thorax around the 8th rib and we had to determine which lobes of the lung were most likely affected.

Some questions in our physiology course have approached what you posted, but again, these are in the minority.

Like I said though, I expect the questions to get more clinical as we move onward.

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[DexterMorganSK]

The majority of the questions so far have been like your first two examples. The minority like your third example.

There have been clinical questions in anatomy, though not quite as complex as your third example. I remember one in particular that tripped people up was about a gunshot victim. The bullet pierced the right chest parasternally around the 5th rib and exited the back of the thorax around the 8th rib and we had to determine which lobes of the lung were most likely affected.

Some questions in our physiology course have approached what you posted, but again, these are in the minority.

Like I said though, I expect the questions to get more clinical as we move onward.

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Thanks, Bob. And, dam, that is a hard ques..lol...was it lower lobe? Can be hard to distinguish from middle to lower during a test!

If anyone is interested, the answers to the above ques are: D, A, A.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Thanks, Bob. And, dam, that is a hard ques..lol...was it lower lobe? Can be hard to distinguish from middle to lower during a test!

If anyone is interested, the answers to the above ques are: D, A, A.

According to the landmarks we were told to memorize, it would've been middle and lower lobes. It required remembering that the right lung has 3 lobes instead of 2, remembering the landmarks for the horizontal and oblique fissures, and setting the oblique path of the bullet against all of those landmarks. It was a handful, lol, especially with no scratch paper or anything. For the record though, I got it right.

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[Weirdy]

According to the landmarks we were told to memorize, it would've been middle and lower lobes. It required remembering that the right lung has 3 lobes instead of 2, remembering the landmarks for the horizontal and oblique fissures, and setting the oblique path of the bullet against all of those landmarks. It was a handful, lol, especially with no scratch paper or anything. For the record though, I got it right.

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Well ok there mister keep it real.

 

[5words]

@bobtheweazel

Were your 1st-year exam questions similar to any of these questions (usmle step 1 ques) or mixed? In the previous post, I was referring to ques like the 3rd one. Thanks!



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Intersting... is that what they teach in Med school? looks like my senior anatomy class.
The last one, was the only one i couldn't answer.. got stuck between A and B.. oops so close!!

 

[TimmyTurner]

Every exam I took, at least for the first semester, felt like it would be the end of me. In the days leading up to it you live in a mental state of 'wow I am beyond f.... erm, screwed'. Then you take it and end up doing anywhere from a C to an A. (C's in head and neck and lab practicals for me). The fear is a driving factor and pushes you to perform. Some days, and I don't say this with any arrogance- I genuinely don't know how I do it. How any of us do it. But it happens. Remember, many have come before us and done just fine. To fail out of Pod school is a statistical anomaly (1 or 2 in every 60 or so, based on my school). Chances are if you're accepted, you'll be fine. You eventually learn to live in that state and not be totally uncomfortable or anxiety riddled.

 

[bobtheweazel]

@5words

Every course has some basic parts and some more complicated parts. Most of the information is relatively straightforward and simple. I would say most of the difficulty is due to the volume of what we're all expected to learn, not necessarily the content itself.

For instance in anatomy, of course there will be the "this is a femur". Pretty basic. Remember though, some people haven't taken anatomy classes and so they've gotta start with basics so everyone can catch up. Then there will be, "this is the head, neck, greater trochanter, lesser trochanter, condyles and other big landmarks". OK, still basic. Then there's "here's the lips of the linea aspera, spiral line, pectineal line, gluteal line, supracondylar ridges, other smaller landmarks and what attaches to all of them—muscles, fascia". Of course they'll throw in the blood supply to the femoral head and neck and how it can be injured and how that results in avascular necrosis of the femoral head. Then there's the internal structure of the bone, trabecular patterns and inherent weak spots. There are also the important angles, "angle of obliquity, angle of inclination, angle of declination, quadriceps angle, planar deformities, and torsional deformities". Of course there's X rays along the way. And we can't leave out the chondrification times and ossification times of all primary and secondary ossification centers. We also had about 100 cross section MRIs of the hip and thigh to look over.

So that's about 1 hour (1 lecture) of the day. The MRIs were for us to go over on our own time. Add on the other few classes you're taking at the same time and good luck keeping up.

 

[HappyHobPod]

@bobtheweazel

Were your 1st-year exam questions similar to any of these questions (usmle step 1 ques) or mixed? In the previous post, I was referring to ques like the 3rd one. Thanks!



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I'm not entirely sure how other schools have it set up exactly, but at scholl we have a class called essentials of clinical reasoning that you start your first year, that we share with the MD's. It incorporates questions exclusively like the third example you provided. It focuses on being able to understand, identify, and work through clinical representations of patient ailments to get you familiarized and used to adopting the clinical mindset that is required of you in practice. You'll obviously get this anywhere you go either sooner or later.


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