Excited about the Army Nurse Corps

[Salamandrina]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I just got word that I was commissioned and I am feeling happy about it. 😀

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

good job 👍

 

[Tiger26]

Congrats

 

[Salamandrina]

Thanks a lot guys. 🙂

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Congratulations. Military nursing is in far better shape than military medicine, especially if you're prior enlisted.

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

Any certain area you want to go to. ER...OB/GYN...OR....?

 

[pgg]

If by "much better shape" you mean (1) practice nursing for 4 years, (2) make LT, and (3) do admin work the rest of your career.

Don't forget that (a) military nurses get paid more than their civilian counterparts and (b) their retirement benefits aren't hamstrung by a complex system of bonuses that don't get counted.

At the cusp of retirement, your typical O5 nurse with 20 years earns a base salary of about $90K, plus another $20-30K or so in tax-free housing allowances (depending on locale). Make it $100K + BAH for the O6 types. I wonder how many mid-career civilian nurses have salaries well over $100K plus full benefits and a solid retirement plan.

Factor in the reduced patient care responsibilities, the virtual absence of any kind of liability or accountability for anything at all, the shift work, the rank factor to ease the inferiority complex, and yep, I'd have to concur with ActiveDutyMD. The NC has done a good job at looking out for #1.

 

[Salamandrina]

Congratulations. Military nursing is in far better shape than military medicine, especially if you're prior enlisted.

Not a prior enlisted. But still, I think it is a smart choice for me.

Any certain area you want to go to. ER...OB/GYN...OR....?

Eventually, I would like to do gerontological nursing. I think the VA has one or two patients that fit that profile. 😉

The NC has done a good job at looking out for #1.

Ummm........yay?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Don't forget that (a) military nurses get paid more than their civilian counterparts and (b) their retirement benefits aren't hamstrung by a complex system of bonuses that don't get counted.

At the cusp of retirement, your typical O5 nurse with 20 years earns a base salary of about $90K, plus another $20-30K or so in tax-free housing allowances (depending on locale). Make it $100K + BAH for the O6 types. I wonder how many mid-career civilian nurses have salaries well over $100K plus full benefits and a solid retirement plan.

Factor in the reduced patient care responsibilities, the virtual absence of any kind of liability or accountability for anything at all, the shift work, the rank factor to ease the inferiority complex, and yep, I'd have to concur with ActiveDutyMD. The NC has done a good job at looking out for #1.

And that nurse corps retirement starts at age 42 if you start right out of school and is calculated on the same base pay formula as that of the medical corps retiree who has to wait at least four more years to retire.

 

[Two-Bit]

Not sure why this thread is even here. This is the Student Doctor Network Forum and the subcategory is Physician Resident Forums [MD/DO], topic Military Medicine "Discussion of Medical Corps issues" not Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, or any other corps.

 

[Milamber]

Not sure why this thread is even here. This is the Student Doctor Network Forum and the subcategory is Physician Resident Forums [MD/DO], topic Military Medicine "Discussion of Medical Corps issues" not Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, or any other corps.

That should be amended to reflect all of milmed not just MD's/DO's

 

[notdeadyet]

Not sure why this thread is even here. This is the Student Doctor Network Forum and the subcategory is Physician Resident Forums [MD/DO], topic Military Medicine "Discussion of Medical Corps issues" not Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, or any other corps.

According to your logic, attendings shouldn't be on here either, as they're neither students nor residents. That would be a real loss.

Actually, neither should HPSP students, who are technically Medical Service Corps, if I understand correctly. Same for National Guard ASR folks.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Anything that affects milmed seems fair game, and nursing definitely qualifies.

 

[AF M4]

According to your logic, attendings shouldn't be on here either, as they're neither students nor residents. That would be a real loss.

Actually, neither should HPSP students, who are technically Medical Service Corps, if I understand correctly. Same for National Guard ASR folks.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Anything that affects milmed seems fair game, and nursing definitely qualifies.

True, and since doctors get labelled as arrogant elitist exclusionary bastards so easily anyway, it's best to avoid actively providing evidence to support this prejudice. So that means no flaunting the Beamer, no MySpace pictures of yourself in a robe drinking scotch in large rooms decorated with the heads of endangered species, and especially no moving of threads on public Internet forums.

Maintain the facade boys!!!

 

[Two-Bit]

According to your logic, attendings shouldn't be on here either, as they're neither students nor residents. That would be a real loss.

Actually, neither should HPSP students, who are technically Medical Service Corps, if I understand correctly. Same for National Guard ASR folks.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Anything that affects milmed seems fair game, and nursing definitely qualifies.

Stand easy, Mr. 5606 posts. The HPSP student doctors ARE student doctors, despite their service's placement in Medical Service Corps. Navy medical students are in the Medical Corps, by the way, so you don't understand correctly. For your information, an Attending has been a pre-med student, med student, intern, resident and possibly fellow, thereby shedding light on many issues we face now in Military Medicine.

I will continue to read this forum and post to it as I see fit, whether or not I 'like' what any other poster has to say, though I doubt I will manage to hit the FIVE THOUSAND post level any time before I retire. Warm regards.

 

[notdeadyet]

True, and since doctors get labelled as arrogant elitist exclusionary bastards so easily anyway, it's best to avoid actively providing evidence to support this prejudice. So that means no flaunting the Beamer, no MySpace pictures of yourself in a robe drinking scotch in large rooms decorated with the heads of endangered species, and especially no moving of threads on public Internet forums.

I won't lose the scotch. Just sayin'.

For your information, an Attending has been a pre-med student, med student, intern, resident and possibly fellow, thereby shedding light on many issues we face now in Military Medicine.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. It sure would be silly to exclude them since they don't fit in the criteria you mentioned in your post.

Folks post on these forums from all over, including nurses, medical physicists, line officers, etc. The mixed viewpoints is pretty educational. Locking the doors because they don't fit in your club would really weaken the forums.

Moot point anyway, since SDN isn't too much for censorship. Enjoy the forum.

 

[Salamandrina]

Not sure why this thread is even here. This is the Student Doctor Network Forum and the subcategory is Physician Resident Forums [MD/DO], topic Military Medicine "Discussion of Medical Corps issues" not Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, or any other corps.

Point taken. I wasn't trying to offend your delicate sensibilities. Very interesting reaction you had there. Hope we never work together.

 

[BomberDoc]

If we had any way to avoid working with the Nurse Corps, you'd never see a doctor your entire career.

Seriously, it's the best part about doing a Marine Corps GMO.

99.9% of military nurses are the devil. They use their rank and power to subjugate medical decisionmaking by the people who should be making medical decisions... the physicians. I absolutely agree that if we could avoid you, we would. Unfortunately, even as a GMO it is hard to get away from the coven. They usually run the medgroup/medcen and will do anything possible to put up roadblocks to keep you from doing your job effectively and efficiently.

The nurse's mantra, "To hell with taking care of people, there is a physician somewhere who's soul needs to be squashed."

 

[Devil Doc]

Navy GMOs are a touch different. Seeing as how most our clinic billets (at least for the straight GMOs, dunno about flight/dive) are now converted to BC/BE, that pretty much leaves ships and Marines.

In my 1.5 months with the Corps, I have had one single day where I have had to "work" with nurses. The rest of the time you have your corpsmen. And while they're lacking in formal education and clinical accumen, they are pretty technically proficient, which is all I really need in my BAS.

Maybe your formal education should include some spelling lessons.

 

[AF M4]

Maybe your formal education should include some spelling lessons.

In the movies, the guy who says stuff like this is always the one who gets killed by his own men in Act 3.

 

[notdeadyet]

Maybe your formal education should include some spelling lessons.

Yeesh. Folks who point out spelling errors need better hobbies. I can understand the urge to comment when someone's speling is reely aful, but typing accumen instead of acumen? Five dollar words get a pass, no?

 

[Mirror Form]

I just got word that I was commissioned and I am feeling happy about it. 😀

Congrats Salamandrina! The military nurses like yourself who seem focused on making a career in patient care are excellent. Don't let the some of the negative posters here bother you, their negative feelings are toward the nurses that go into admin and are trying to get promoted.

 

[Mirror Form]

Not sure why this thread is even here. This is the Student Doctor Network Forum and the subcategory is Physician Resident Forums [MD/DO], topic Military Medicine "Discussion of Medical Corps issues" not Nurse Corps, Medical Service Corps, or any other corps.

Why are you so stupid that you just don't get it?

Honestly, it's mind boggling that someone with under ten posts would tell someone with thousands of posts how the forums here work!

 

[Devil Doc]

In the movies, the guy who says stuff like this is always the one who gets killed by his own men in Act 3.

I am an eleven year veteran of the military. Your movies are my reality. I think you are missing the humor and irony in the fact that this person is totally undermining the entire base of military medicine, while making silly mistakes like this trying to use "five dollar words". Military medicine could not exist for one day without the medics and nurses. Comparing apples to apples, any corpsmen who is qualified to get into med school in the first place is much more qualified to be there than 99% of med school applicants hands down 100%. I'm not sure how some of us with 3+ years of intense military medical training is considered lack of formal education. Personally, I would choose a Corpsmen to come and rescue me off the battefield any day over some intern...

 

[AF M4]

I am an eleven year veteran of the military. Your movies are my reality. I think you are missing the humor and irony in the fact that this person is totally undermining the entire base of military medicine, while making silly mistakes like this trying to use "five dollar words". Military medicine could not exist for one day without the medics and nurses. Comparing apples to apples, any corpsmen who is qualified to get into med school in the first place is much more qualified to be there than 99% of med school applicants hands down 100%. I'm not sure how some of us with 3+ years of intense military medical training is considered lack of formal education. Personally, I would choose a Corpsmen to come and rescue me off the battefield any day over some intern...

Fair enough. I sincerely doubt that the poster intended any degradation towards his corpsmen or was trying to destroy military medicine. If you read many of Tired's other posts, it sounds like he's only frustrated that it doesn't work better so that he could in turn provide better care for fine servicemen like you.

If military medicine falls apart, I don't think it will be because of a post on an Internet forum, no matter how many words in it are mis-spelled or how many run-on sentences and hanging participles are included.

Heh, I've seen the shape some of my fellow docs are in and I would much rather have the corpsmen be the one who rescues me off the battlefield as well. No contest. But when I get to the hospital, I'll take the residency-trained surgeons and intensivists for the rest of my care. That's what we get paid the big bucks for.😎

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Congrats Salamandrina! The military nurses like yourself who seem focused on making a career in patient care are excellent. Don't let the some of the negative posters here bother you, their negative feelings are toward the nurses that go into admin and are trying to get promoted.

+1

I love nurses....until they hit 0-4. Then they're the devil. (You have to join the coven to make 0-4.)

 

[pgg]

I'm not sure how some of us with 3+ years of intense military medical training is considered lack of formal education.

That's because you, as someone who's never been to medical school, don't know what you don't know.

Speaking as someone who has been to medical school, and spent three years as a GMO with USMC infantry and Corpsmen ... that "intense military medical training" really is not something that would be helpful to a medical student.

A Corpsman's formal education and training is roughly on a par with that of an EMT. Some notable exceptions in areas that EMTs don't need to know (eg, field sanitation). I was an EMT before I went to medical school. At the time I thought (like you) that my knowledge and skills would be a great asset and advantage in medical school. I was wrong - that stuff was next to worthless. The knowledge was so superficial, the skills so basic, the mindset and approach to patients so different. It just wasn't helpful.

Personally, I would choose a Corpsmen to come and rescue me off the battefield any day over some intern...

And so would I, because that's what they're trained to do, and that's what they're good at. And I would choose a plumber to fix my sink over some intern, and I would choose one of those really short funny hat-wearing natives to carry my oxygen to the base camp if I was climbing Mount Everest.

Wait, weren't you just saying something about comparing apples to apples?

I worked with some extraordinary Corpsmen. Guys who literally dragged wounded Marines out of streets while getting shot at, who saved lives by promptly and properly applying tourniquets when needed, who slept in the dirt while Dr. PGG the Fobbit ate midrats at the KBR chow hall.

More than a few were working on their undergrad degrees, and a couple were interested in becoming PAs or doctors. I will state unequivocally that their degree work and prereqs will better prepare them for medical school than anything they learned or did as Corpsmen.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I will state unequivocally that their degree work and prereqs will better prepare them for medical school than anything they learned or did as Corpsmen.

I disagree. While the degree work will better prepare them academically, which approach do you suppose prepares them better to deal with an A-hole surgery attending throwing instruments around the OR and pimping the Hades out of them at 4 in the morning? Or explaining to a patient and his family that he's going to die? Or working 16 hour days and 80+ hour weeks for years on end as a resident? You know there's more to being a doc than just knowing stuff. (But you're right, that our friend the medic doesn't know jack squat compared to what he'll learn in one week of med school.)

After being on an admissions committee, I'd take the combat proven medic with slightly inferior grades (but still good enough) over the MCAT acing whiz-kid any day. Who needs more dermatologists anyway? 🙂

 

[Devil Doc]

That's because you, as someone who's never been to medical school, don't know what you don't know.

Speaking as someone who has been to medical school, and spent three years as a GMO with USMC infantry and Corpsmen ... that "intense military medical training" really is not something that would be helpful to a medical student.

A Corpsman's formal education and training is roughly on a par with that of an EMT. Some notable exceptions in areas that EMTs don't need to know (eg, field sanitation). I was an EMT before I went to medical school. At the time I thought (like you) that my knowledge and skills would be a great asset and advantage in medical school. I was wrong - that stuff was next to worthless. The knowledge was so superficial, the skills so basic, the mindset and approach to patients so different. It just wasn't helpful.



And so would I, because that's what they're trained to do, and that's what they're good at. And I would choose a plumber to fix my sink over some intern, and I would choose one of those really short funny hat-wearing natives to carry my oxygen to the base camp if I was climbing Mount Everest.

Wait, weren't you just saying something about comparing apples to apples?

I worked with some extraordinary Corpsmen. Guys who literally dragged wounded Marines out of streets while getting shot at, who saved lives by promptly and properly applying tourniquets when needed, who slept in the dirt while Dr. PGG the Fobbit ate midrats at the KBR chow hall.

More than a few were working on their undergrad degrees, and a couple were interested in becoming PAs or doctors. I will state unequivocally that their degree work and prereqs will better prepare them for medical school than anything they learned or did as Corpsmen.

Ok, makes sense gentlemen. I suppose that being a corpsmen didn't really help me that much with the didactic portions of dental medicine school. It did help me to have the confidence and skills to expand upon that knowledge to do more hands on things like a couple hundred extractions including impactions, MMF, facial lacs, facial space infections, etc etc etc. I've had chiefs of surgery tell me that I was the most knowledeable and skilled student they ever worked with when it came to the surgical aspects of dentistry. I guess I will have to come back and post in a few years when I am a DMD, MD and then I will have more street cred to tell you that my training has been much more helpful to me than a couple prereqs.

 

[Devil Doc]

I worked with some extraordinary Corpsmen. Guys who literally dragged wounded Marines out of streets while getting shot at, who saved lives by promptly and properly applying tourniquets when needed, who slept in the dirt while Dr. PGG the Fobbit ate midrats at the KBR chow hall.

Thanks for the laugh Doc, I needed that!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Ok, makes sense gentlemen. I suppose that being a corpsmen didn't really help me that much with the didactic portions of dental medicine school. It did help me to have the confidence and skills to expand upon that knowledge to do more hands on things like a couple hundred extractions including impactions, MMF, facial lacs, facial space infections, etc etc etc. I've had chiefs of surgery tell me that I was the most knowledeable and skilled student they ever worked with when it came to the surgical aspects of dentistry. I guess I will have to come back and post in a few years when I am a DMD, MD and then I will have more street cred to tell you that my training has been much more helpful to me than a couple prereqs.

Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about dental school here. I thought we were talking about medical school.

Perhaps being a corpsmen is excellent training for dentists, I don't really know.

 

[pgg]

After being on an admissions committee, I'd take the combat proven medic with slightly inferior grades (but still good enough) over the MCAT acing whiz-kid any day. Who needs more dermatologists anyway? 🙂

You could say the same thing about any non-traditional applicant who has "real world" experience before medical school. Would you still take the medic over an engineer who spent 4 years designing bridges, or the guy who sold his business to become a doctor?

My basic argument is that having a prior life in some medically-related field isn't the advantage those people think it is.

 

[Devil Doc]

Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about dental school here. I thought we were talking about medical school.

Perhaps being a corpsmen is excellent training for dentists, I don't really know.

Are people's mouths and faces not connected to the rest of their bodies? Is an MD obtained through an OMFS residency not up to standards with the rest of the MD's issued from other schools? I know at the end of the day I will still be a dentist and that makes me very happy. I will definetely be laughing all the way to the bank. I have seen the result of Plastic surgeons trying to do facial trauma. It usually ends up with screws through tooth roots and jacked up occlusion. The fact is that no one spends more time on facial trauma and surgery than OMFS. In case you didn't understand from my previous post OMFS is my concentration. The procedures I listed are OMFS territory. I never said that being a Corpsmen would help me be a great restorative dentist. If anything it probably made me worse because I was an Ortho surgical tech and used to pound things with mallets... I was also proficient at every other surgical service though. I know that med students keep their nose in books, but as a D2 I was already giving blocks and doing extractions etc. This is a novel idea to med students because you don't even get to do any real procedure based patient care until you are in residency. I worked at a Level I associated with a med school, so I worked with plenty of med students and smurked through my mask as they tip toed just to see what we were doing on the OR table.

 

[Devil Doc]

You could say the same thing about any non-traditional applicant who has "real world" experience before medical school. Would you still take the medic over an engineer who spent 4 years designing bridges, or the guy who sold his business to become a doctor?

My basic argument is that having a prior life in some medically-related field isn't the advantage those people think it is.

What medical specialty are you training in?

 

[Salamandrina]

If we had any way to avoid working with the Nurse Corps, you'd never see a doctor your entire career.

Seriously, it's the best part about doing a Marine Corps GMO.

99.9% of military nurses are the devil. They use their rank and power to subjugate medical decisionmaking by the people who should be making medical decisions... the physicians. I absolutely agree that if we could avoid you, we would. Unfortunately, even as a GMO it is hard to get away from the coven. They usually run the medgroup/medcen and will do anything possible to put up roadblocks to keep you from doing your job effectively and efficiently.

The nurse's mantra, "To hell with taking care of people, there is a physician somewhere who's soul needs to be squashed."

I know that none of you know me from Adam. But I do have a good deal of MDs in my life (family and personal) that are very important to me and for whom I have the greatest respect. I know that nurses can and unfortunately do make life hell of medical students and that the military ranking adds a new level of complexity to the working relationship. But as with all relationships, the animosity and respect go both ways.

Bomber doc, I am not saying that all nurses are deserving of your respect. I don’t know your experiences. However, for the nurses I have worked with and in my experience, “to hell with the taking care of people” is no part of the nursing mantra and it is certainly no part of mine.

I have ever only supported nurses asking clarifying questions or checking concerns regarding medical decision making. It is not an RN’s role to follow orders blindly, but it is an RN’s role to follow orders appropriately. I do not advocate for using rank to undermine the medical qualifications the MDs bring to patient care. I don’t think patient care is an appropriate battle ground for a pissing contest.

I am no young pup. I worked in business for 13 years before starting my nursing education. I bring this up because I have done a lot of consideration about why I want to be a nurse and what I want to do as a nurse before I embarked on this path.

Congrats Salamandrina! The military nurses like yourself who seem focused on making a career in patient care are excellent. Don't let the some of the negative posters here bother you, their negative feelings are toward the nurses that go into admin and are trying to get promoted.

A large part of why I chose military nursing as my first nursing career is a great love for the patient population. I have so much respect for those that serve and I would love to be a part of caring for them as they do so or afterward. My dad was Army.

+1

I love nurses....until they hit 0-4. Then they're the devil. (You have to join the coven to make 0-4.)

I don’t see myself being career Army and it is not my goal now. However, if my goals change, I will keep an eye out for the red dude with a pitch fork and a bifurcated tail trying to tell me to squash the souls of the MDs.

I wish I could convey to you all the respect I have for your profession and your decision to use your education and time to serve your country. I have no desire to offend, squash the soul of, undermine, or in any other way make your life hell. I just want to work with people I respect and who respect me to achieve the best patient outcomes we can. I realize that I will work with people that don’t respect me and whom I can’t respect. But I will extend my respect to all of you when and if I work with you. I hope you will try to deserve it.

 

[pgg]

Perhaps being a corpsmen is excellent training for dentists, I don't really know.

Are people's mouths and faces not connected to the rest of their bodies?

[...]

I worked at a Level I associated with a med school, so I worked with plenty of med students and smurked through my mask as they tip toed just to see what we were doing on the OR table.

Part of the reason I'm giving you a hard time here is because of this massive chip on your shoulder. It really appears that you have a huge inferiority complex, where you're just desperate to prove that you know more, have done more, and are generally better than those stupid med students and doctors.

All he said was that he didn't know if being a Corpsman was good prep for dentists, and you launch into this silly tirade and defense of your chosen career. Naturally, not missing a chance to describe how you "smurk" at those pathetic medical students.

I've known people who were this hypersensitive to the thought that someone else didn't admire or "respect" them. Unfortunately they also tended to have dangerously inflated senses of what they're qualified for and capable of doing. I had a Corpsman who attempted a surgical airway on a guy who was spontaneously breathing. Another who saw a Marine during sick call for a headache and decided that starting an IV and giving him a 50 mg amp of ephedrine would fix it (I still don't know where he got this idea; I detected and stopped his plan only because I happened to see him digging through the airway/code cart and asked if he was doing the monthly inventory). During a medcap in Afghanistan, an Army SF medic with us started an IV and was running a liter of NS into a two-week-old infant with a fever because he thought she was just dehydrated. Your attitude remind me of theirs.

Settle down. I'm sure you're a great dental student and that you'll go far. Let your talent, hard work, and accomplishments speak for themselves - in time, they will. You don't need to keep telling people how great you are.

What medical specialty are you training in?

Anesthesiology.

 

[Devil Doc]

Anesthesiology.

Ah, I see. Hopefully there will still be room for you to work being that nurses are handling your OR cases start to finish now.

 

[pgg]

Ah, I see. Hopefully there will still be room for you to work being that nurses are handling your OR cases start to finish now.

You're trying too hard.

 

[mac61]

Can't....resist....anymore.....fingers....typing.....

What's the difference between a dentist and a doctor?

~Doctors don't want to be called dentists.~

I hate trolls.

Congrats Salamandrina, all of the nurses I commissioned with ~5 years ago are still in and generally happy.

 

[Devil Doc]

What's the difference between a dentist and a doctor?

~Doctors don't want to be called dentists.~
.

That doesn't even make sense. Do you mean physicians? Do you plan on doing your residency at University of Phoenix online?

 

[TheGoose]

....and so it continues

 

[The White Coat Investor]

You could say the same thing about any non-traditional applicant who has "real world" experience before medical school. Would you still take the medic over an engineer who spent 4 years designing bridges, or the guy who sold his business to become a doctor?

My basic argument is that having a prior life in some medically-related field isn't the advantage those people think it is.

Agreed. I'd be just as impressed with the other two applicants.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

That doesn't even make sense. Do you mean physicians? Do you plan on doing your residency at University of Phoenix online?

Do you know how to take a joke? I suggest you learn or it'll cause you problems your entire career. No one here is disrespecting you. In fact, the only facial trauma done at my base is done by OMFS.

 

[pgg]

ActiveDutyMD]No one here is disrespecting you.

Actually, at this point, I'm disrespecting him.

I'm just smurking in his general direction.

 

[futrdvm]

I just got word that I was commissioned and I am feeling happy about it. 😀

congratulations!! my niece is in the nurse corps and i'm so proud of her. i think that nursing is underrated and as much as we need physicians, its the nurses that are responsible for the hands on care. i'm very happy for you and i hope you find your career path very fulfilling.
i myself am hoping for acceptance in the vet corps (either before or after graduation) so i may be seeing you in the coming years.