Existential crisis..HELP!

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pedstar09

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So, first year pedi resident here, currently on ED month. For all my medical life I thought I would like ED. Heck, deep until third year of med school, I was all for ED, but then switched to Peds thinking that Pedi ED is still an option for me.

So far, the rotation has underwhelmed. Not because of variety. I like the variety, I like the reassurance and follow up aspect for majority of these patients. BUT, what I dont like is the psych/crisis kids. Also, in a week of rotation so far, have not had one pedi resusc. I know it is summer and less resp/cards problems, but I was expecting that it would be a bumping experience and I would enjoy it so much.

On the other hand, I thought I would HATE NICU. After 2 rotations in NICU, I have to say that it has grown on me. My research project is possibly going in that direction. I hear hours suck in NICU no matter how experienced you become. So, please HELP me make a decision between NICU and ED.

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I think it's common for residents to change their mind on a specialty. I did and haven't regretted it for a second. In the end you need to do what genuinely interests you most. NICU can bring long hours but long hours go by quick if it's doing what makes you happy. That being said you can't judge a specialty in two weeks. Peds ed can be very interesting but it's unpredictable as best.
 
So, first year pedi resident here, currently on ED month. For all my medical life I thought I would like ED. Heck, deep until third year of med school, I was all for ED, but then switched to Peds thinking that Pedi ED is still an option for me.

So far, the rotation has underwhelmed. Not because of variety. I like the variety, I like the reassurance and follow up aspect for majority of these patients. BUT, what I dont like is the psych/crisis kids. Also, in a week of rotation so far, have not had one pedi resusc. I know it is summer and less resp/cards problems, but I was expecting that it would be a bumping experience and I would enjoy it so much.

On the other hand, I thought I would HATE NICU. After 2 rotations in NICU, I have to say that it has grown on me. My research project is possibly going in that direction. I hear hours suck in NICU no matter how experienced you become. So, please HELP me make a decision between NICU and ED.
Have you considered PICU as well? It's a good mix of the pathology you'll see in the ED and the pathology you'll see in the NICU.
 
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Have you considered PICU as well? It's a good mix of the pathology you'll see in the ED and the pathology you'll see in the NICU.

NICU is its own world. There's not that much crossover in pathology unless you admit a NICU grad to the PICU. And I can for sure say that my NICU month did nothing to prepare me for my PICU month.
 
NICU is its own world. There's not that much crossover in pathology unless you admit a NICU grad to the PICU. And I can for sure say that my NICU month did nothing to prepare me for my PICU month.
Ah, we sent our NICU kids to the PICU after surgery, and had a lot of congenital cardiac cases in PICU that we'd let cook before repair. So there was maybe 30% crossover, mostly from kids with cardiac defects, respiratory complications of prematurity, and congenital anomalies. Plus we delivered kids as early as 22.5 weeks, and a lot of them would age out of PICU or get colonized with something we didn't want the newborns exposed to and end up in the long term care pediatric respiratory care unit (a side-branch of our PICU)- had an average of five NICU graduates there per shift, some of those kids didn't leave the hospital until they were as old as 24 months.
 
All that being said, PICU is closer to adult ICU than it is to NICU. But I feel like the kind of person that likes hard-core path (as OP seems to be) might find PICU to be a good fit.
 
Ah, we sent our NICU kids to the PICU after surgery, and had a lot of congenital cardiac cases in PICU that we'd let cook before repair. So there was maybe 30% crossover, mostly from kids with cardiac defects, respiratory complications of prematurity, and congenital anomalies. Plus we delivered kids as early as 22.5 weeks, and a lot of them would age out of PICU or get colonized with something we didn't want the newborns exposed to and end up in the long term care pediatric respiratory care unit (a side-branch of our PICU)- had an average of five NICU graduates there per shift, some of those kids didn't leave the hospital until they were as old as 24 months.

Yeah I guess the setup varies greatly by institution. Our post-op congenital hearts do go to PICU, and once in a while the NICU is bursting and they'll send over a couple babies, but typically our NICU babies stay in the NICU until they go home. Even the ones that are 1+ years, until they can be placed at a long term facility or go home.
 
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OP I know how you feel. I have been going through first year not really loving anything, but not hating anything. I went into my ED month thinking I would absolutely love the variety and pathology as well as the ability to balance applied physiology to the resus kids and education to the febrile seizures. For my entire month, I didn't see a single resus and I ended up not liking ED at all. During my end of month feedback the director told me that they wished it was different for me because the sick kids are the ones who give you the drive to get through the BS ones and carry you through the shifts, but I didn't like it at all.

Now I am sitting here hoping I love the PICU next month, otherwise I don't know what I'm going to do.
 
I hear hours suck in NICU no matter how experienced you become.

If you were comparing hours between NICU and say, Endocrine, I could see the point of this comment. But NICU or PICU compared to the ED? Unless you end up in a spot that really likes to play favorites based on seniority (which truthfully is probably not good for overall morale), it's not like you can just assume that you're on the path to nothing but banker's hours - there will still be plenty of nights and weekends. There are a lot of level II NICU's out there that you'd be surprised how low key they are, with very reasonable hours.
 
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So, first year pedi resident here, currently on ED month. For all my medical life I thought I would like ED. Heck, deep until third year of med school, I was all for ED, but then switched to Peds thinking that Pedi ED is still an option for me.

So far, the rotation has underwhelmed. Not because of variety. I like the variety, I like the reassurance and follow up aspect for majority of these patients. BUT, what I dont like is the psych/crisis kids. Also, in a week of rotation so far, have not had one pedi resusc. I know it is summer and less resp/cards problems, but I was expecting that it would be a bumping experience and I would enjoy it so much.

On the other hand, I thought I would HATE NICU. After 2 rotations in NICU, I have to say that it has grown on me. My research project is possibly going in that direction. I hear hours suck in NICU no matter how experienced you become. So, please HELP me make a decision between NICU and ED.
You sound like me 16 years ago. I ended up not liking the ED after all, liked the NICU but missed the variety in diagnoses/ages-- and PICU was where it was at. You have time. Don't sweat it. You'll figure it out.
 
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Hi all, thanks for your wonderful inputs. So glad to know that I am not the only one in this weird situation. To the NICU attending/fellows: does the work load ease up once you have been in the field for more than 10-15 years? That is my biggest concern. Yes, I will be a doctor, but I also am looking for a GOOD/ADEQUATE work-life balance in my career.

Thanks!
 
To the NICU attending/fellows: does the work load ease up once you have been in the field for more than 10-15 years? That is my biggest concern. Yes, I will be a doctor, but I also am looking for a GOOD/ADEQUATE work-life balance in my career.

Well, 10-15 years after becoming an attending is classically "mid-career" so that wouldn't usually be a time regardless of practice model to decrease work load. Some folks take more administrative jobs or otherwise cut back clinical work after 20-30 years of practice, but it would be uncommon to do so in most settings mid-career unless one is doing substantial funded research OR taking a leadership role in a neo group that allows a substantial amount of non-clinical time.

That begs the question as to whether neonatologists have a GOOD/ADEQUATE work-life balance. We've discussed this often over the years, I have no thoughts that I haven't had that balance, but of course, YMMV. We take night call, I did so for over 25 years after finishing fellowship. The amount is too variable to go much generalizing, but once a week more or less is common. We work weekends, again, 2-3 weekend day rounds/month is common. We usually sign out and get home when on service at reasonable hours, not much different than any other docs. Clinical service can be difficult and stressful, but the amount varies a lot depending on practice model and how much you cover.

I have no complaints, nor do I think my family has had any complaints. I've not missed many events over the decades and neither have most of my colleagues. But, there will always be exceptions.
 
To neonatology colleagues out there, if you would be so kind to help me have some of these questions answered, I would really appreciate!

1. What kind of schedule do you and your group have? Week on and week off? Night float? etc?
2. What is the range of salary in a generally academic setting, say level III or IV NICU?
3. How is the job market in neonatology? I know my hospital is looking for one, that does not mean that there is high demands though...
 
To neonatology colleagues out there, if you would be so kind to help me have some of these questions answered, I would really appreciate!


3. How is the job market in neonatology? I know my hospital is looking for one, that does not mean that there is high demands though...


It's still pretty good. The pure academic marketplace is tight, but blended roles (private practice type clinical jobs at medical schools/large children's hospital community programs) are reasonably abundant as are true private practice jobs without a med school connection at all. No one can predict the future but not finding a job in neo in most markets is unlikely in the future. Now, if you must practice near Fenway Park or The Golden Gate Bridge, your options will be more limited as they are for all medical specialties. On the other hand, it took me about 2 seconds to search out a nice job in North Dakota.
 
To neonatology colleagues out there, if you would be so kind to help me have some of these questions answered, I would really appreciate!

1. What kind of schedule do you and your group have? Week on and week off? Night float? etc?
2. What is the range of salary in a generally academic setting, say level III or IV NICU?
3. How is the job market in neonatology? I know my hospital is looking for one, that does not mean that there is high demands though...

1. My first 5 years was 24/7 for one week, call from home, then 5 additional days of 9-5, no call after 5, then 9-12 days off (depending on the rotation). There were no NNPs. I was at a level IV NICU with an average daily census of 25. It was brutal and I don't miss it. I now work 24/7 for 2 weeks straight, call from home, in-house NNPs 24/7, at a level III NICU with an average daily census of 10. Much better lifestyle. I would never want to work without NNPs again.
2. I was offered both private and academic positions after fellowship. The salary of the academic positions was about 60% of what I was offered for private practice, and the expectations to produce academically were very high. Overall, I felt like I was going to be working more and earning less, and that there would always be a nagging sense that there was a paper to write or funding to obtain, endless research meetings, and years to climb the totem pole. One benefit of the academic positions was that the retirement benefits were better, but keep in mind how many state retirement funds are no longer paying out.
3. For me, I had to ask myself this question, "do I want to love where I live, or love where I work?" I entered the job market in 2010, at a time when many Neos close to retirement had lost substantial funds due to the economic crisis, and had decided to continue practicing. So the choicest jobs offered to me were NOT in the choicest locations. If I wanted to work in that glamorous locale, I would need to work more and get paid less. I had a conversation with the division chief of a choice southern California NICU program. He told me what he was paying first-year associates...$80K/year...and he said if the applicant balked at the salary, he had 10 more applicants waiting outside the door who would sign up immediately. By contrast, I was offered more than 3 times as much for private NICUs in cities whose main industry was agriculture. My first 5 years were spent making a lot of money, working a lot of hours, in a community that I hated. For the past 3 years, I have made less, worked less, and I am much happier living in an area that better suits my outdoor lifestyle. Another option: once you get some experience, there is a lot of locums work available and it pays very well (going rate is $1500-1800/24 hours on call and they pay travel and malpractice). You can live wherever you want, and spend 1-2 weeks per month working somewhere you don't live. However, if you have a family, or if you want to feel committed to a NICU and community, this option may not work well. Texas is wide open for neonatology positions right now. The state changed the rules for NICUs and now many NICUs that previously had call from home are now required to have in-house Neo coverage 24/7. With an active Texas license, I get no less than 4-5 calls/emails per week from recruiters in Texas, and I can pick the choicest locums positions if I need some extra funds. Another thing to consider as you make your decision between NICU/PICU: a community of about 60K people can support a NICU. It takes a much larger community, and often a children's hospital, to support a PICU. Do you want to always live in a larger city, or would you like the option to live in a smaller community?
 
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Adult EM attending here married to PICU doc.

Anecdotally have heard about some community NICU positions and locums PEM positions rivaling EM salaries.

PEM is great for work life balance.

80k/year is beyond an insult. I cannot believe anyone would accept that kind of pay. I would be laughing on my way out the door. And that's in Cali?! That's not even a livable wage! Unbelievable people accept that with all the training and credentials they have. You can make that in 2 months in a good EM/PEM/NICU position.
 
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