exorcism identification?

[nev]

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This is a wierd question...but are physicians trained to tell when a patient is being possessed or when something super natural is causing the patient to have wierd symptoms?

 

[Mike59]

Yes, yes we are....

I got this knowledge from a Robbin's Pathology chapter on Neuropsychiatry, you have to write to the authors for this special insert, they will mail it to you.

 

[JaneDough]

We are also trained in voodoo and tarot reading. My classmate, Harry Potter, said he would be happy to make you a special exorcism potion, if you like.

"Exodum ******us"

 

[Mike59]

"Exodum ******us"

Good call. From what I read, second line treatment is a drug that's been around for awhle: "methexorcistolol" (that's the generic name)

 

[JaneDough]

Good call. From what I read, second line treatment is a drug that's been around for awhle: "methexorcistolol" (that's the generic name)

Good one!

 

[JaneDough]

I think you can also use Levimisol. The best part- this is a real drug 😉

 

[nev]

thats interesting...

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I think you can also use Levimisol. The best part- this is a real drug 😉

The best part is, haldol and lithium still work well on most demons....

 

[JaneDough]

The best part is, haldol and lithium still work well on most demons....

Vodka is quicker. Just kidding. I find percocet works well to quiet the demon. Can you get me a refill? My neighbor stole mine.

 

[WildcatDMD]

wow, what a great question... 🙄

 

[(nicedream)]

In osteopathic school we are taught how to diagnose posessions and treat them with manipulation. This is the main difference between MD and DO schools.

 

[NPursuit]

There's actually an exorcism movie coming out pretty soon. Or maybe it's already out. I don't go much. I have heard from some otherwise rational people who have sworn they've seen a person possessed. So I don't know. But if it ain't in the curriculum, it should be. 😉

 

[cosmicstarr]

In osteopathic school we are taught how to diagnose posessions and treat them with manipulation. This is the main difference between MD and DO schools.

hmm..I guess this is why I will be applying to DO schools.

 

[SocialistMD]

There's actually an exorcism movie coming out pretty soon. Or maybe it's already out. I don't go much. I have heard from some otherwise rational people who have sworn they've seen a person possessed. So I don't know. But if it ain't in the curriculum, it should be. 😉

Then would you also add "forgiveness of sins" and "sharing of the body of Christ" to the curriculum?

 

[Pythagoras]

Then would you also add "forgiveness of sins" and "sharing of the body of Christ" to the curriculum?

Yes, I would.

 

[SocialistMD]

Yes, I would.

Then go to seminary.

 

[vhawk]

What about methicillin-resistant strains of demons? I hear those are becoming real problems in major metropolitan areas. Super-demons.

 

[Saluki]

There's actually an exorcism movie coming out pretty soon. Or maybe it's already out. I don't go much. I have heard from some otherwise rational people who have sworn they've seen a person possessed. So I don't know. But if it ain't in the curriculum, it should be. 😉

A girl left my prep school in the middle of the year, and the word on the street was that she was possessed. Started screaming when the Bible was read, her eyes turned red, she threw a football player across the room, spoke about herself in the third person, etc. I still think it's nothing lithium wouldn't have fixed, but exorcism is a good alternative- I think it's important that physicians explore medical and alternative therapies. Exorcism is in a way very similar to the TAILS program- it gets away from purely focusing on drugs as the solution....

 

[shivalrous]

Wow we need to start a witch doctor's forum..

 

[SocialistMD]

A girl left my prep school in the middle of the year, and the word on the street was that she was possessed. Started screaming when the Bible was read, her eyes turned red, she threw a football player across the room, spoke about herself in the third person, etc. I still think it's nothing lithium wouldn't have fixed, but exorcism is a good alternative- I think it's important that physicians explore medical and alternative therapies. Exorcism is in a way very similar to the TAILS program- it gets away from purely focusing on drugs as the solution....

That's a priest's turf, not a physcian's. Everyone complains about CRNAs and PAs gaining new privileges and about the turf wars between surgeons/ cardiologists/gastroenterologists/radiologists, but no one wants to protect the right of priest to practice his art. Shameful...

 

[domukin]

Oh man, thanks for the laugh. 😀

 

[synapse lapse]

I've been on SDN for some time now, and this has to be up there for the dumbest thread everAssuming the OP was serious, that is. Yall's comments were freakin hilarious.

 

[JaneDough]

this has to be up there for the dumbest thread ever

You're welcome. I will refer you to my signature for my feelings on the thread. I guess if you're gonna be dumb, you may as well be funny doing it. 🙂

 

[nev]

well I'm sure med school students wont bother having a laugh once in a while.....

 

[vhawk]

Dont be so quick to assume the OP was joking....I've heard alarming studies about the number of people who believe angels play a direct role in all of our lives, and that malevolent ghosts are exceedingly common. Superstition is very powerful for some people.

 

[it.]

gummy bears are yummy. that is all.

 

[simoin]

Im just glad that someone from Rice supports how rediculous this thread is because like most snobby east coasters I believe that only someone from south of the mason-dixon line would be dumb enough to believe this.

if OP was my patient Id take the time to be sensitive to his/her beliefs and explain that exorsism aint my thang but since they arent and are supporsed to be my future collegue I can say how f-ing crazy you are and I hope you fail out before you go screwing up some poor psychotic bastards life by pouring holy water on them.
wow

 

[abecedarian]

One of the differences between demonic possession and normal disease would be the presence of unexplainable, supernatural abilities such as levitation, superhuman strength and speaking in tongues (clearly identifiable languages that the individual would have no way of knowing).

The hallmark of demonic possession, however, is the inability of the individual to withstand the presence of sacred Christian objects such as crucifixes, rosaries or holy water, or the performance of Christian religious rituals such as baptism, anointing of the sick or consecration of the Eucharist. They typically become extremely violent and begin exhibiting the aforementioned supernatural abilities.

If a physician suspects a possible demonic possession, after checking for possible human and natural causes (ie. lying or schizophrenia) of course, they should then contact their local Catholic Archdiocese after securing the patient's/patient's family's permission. The bishop will then review the medical files with other physicians and upon determining that the affliction is indeed supernatual in origin, will appoint a priest with enough experience and virtue to attempt the exorcism.

 

[nev]

yeah..I've heard cases similar to that

 

[a_ditchdoc]

Although this thread was a bit funny and perhaps naive, we shouldn't be so quick to discount exorcism, or any ritual, as without benefit for our patients. One of my professors held a ceremony, vaguely similiar to an exorcism, for one of his patients. After all therapeutic options had failed, he invited the patients Rabbi in, and set a few ground rules for the ceremony. The ceremony was held in his office. Althought the Rabbi deviated somewhat during the ceremony from the original plan, it proved to be of great benefit to the patient. Don't assume that psychotropic drugs are the only thing that can possibly help the patient.

And to Simoin, it really does not matter if YOU believe in the superstitions and holy water, only what your patient believes....

 

[nev]

Thanks Ditchdoc

 

[thackl]

Call Constintine

 

[SpyPuts]

Im just glad that someone from Rice supports how rediculous this thread is because like most snobby east coasters I believe that only someone from south of the mason-dixon line would be dumb enough to believe this.

if OP was my patient Id take the time to be sensitive to his/her beliefs and explain that exorsism aint my thang but since they arent and are supporsed to be my future collegue I can say how f-ing crazy you are and I hope you fail out before you go screwing up some poor psychotic bastards life by pouring holy water on them.
wow

And like most bass-ackwards Southerners, I believe that you have exceeded your 'misspelled word' and 'run-on sentence' quotas for the month. Aren't there enough opportunities to take shots at the South that you don't need to make an issue out of the OP's physical location? There are stupid people everywhere.

 

[GED MD]

Although this thread was a bit funny and perhaps naive, we shouldn't be so quick to discount exorcism, or any ritual, as without benefit for our patients. .....

And to Simoin, it really does not matter if YOU believe in the superstitions and holy water, only what your patient believes....

Bravo to you Ditchdoc! First of... this is funny. But in practical terms, medicine is much the same. A lot of the patient interview is simply a comforting ritual. At a reductionist biochemical view, "placebo" is what happens to the naive. But! it is the only thing we have that is proven to work for almost all disorders. Naturally, these agents are largely culture bound. Someone from Boulder (I'm in Colorado) might show remarkable response to an herbal presciption that did nothing for a bench scientist. Someone in Suburbia might praise their week of antibiotics that saved them from their cold, while someone else thought it was the chicken soup.

But it can also work the reverse. If someone believes they have a problem with "possession," more than likely it's going to be somaticized. Some one in Malasia might run Amok, while some Native Americans have been known develop windigo and an irrestible desire for cannabalism. Some guy from Suburbia might "wake up on the wrong side of the bed," get in a fight because "something came over me." .... and some Catholics get posessed by demons.... The common theme here is that, well, it is a common theme, and if you want to appreciate a patient, it's important to understand what their issue is.

That doesn't mean it's not still funny though... as evidence, I'll point you to the "John Frum Cargo Cult" movement for jaw dropping evidence of the power of ritual. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

 

[pillowhead]

Im just glad that someone from Rice supports how rediculous this thread is because like most snobby east coasters I believe that only someone from south of the mason-dixon line would be dumb enough to believe this.

you have got to be f-ing kidding me. Yeah, NO ONE north of the mason-dixon line would EVER be dumb enough to believe in angels, demons, spirits, etc.

Now tell me, who do you consider more open-minded--southerners or northerners? I get so sick of hearing people from the north complain about how close-minded and prejudiced southerners are when I hear crap like this.

 

[it.]

actually, there are such things as "angels" and "spirits". you even have "spirit guides." all these entities aren't necessarily christian/catholic/whatever but they do exist. there's a whole other world that we've learned to tune out to, but if you learn to develop your psychic abilities, you can tap into it. no, i'm not joking.

 

[Napoleon1801]

actually, there are such things as "angels" and "spirits". you even have "spirit guides." all these entities aren't necessarily christian/catholic/whatever but they do exist. there's a whole other world that we've learned to tune out to, but if you learn to develop your psychic abilities, you can tap into it. no, i'm not joking.

Have you changed your medications recently? 😛


Leave the religious voodoo to those who believe in it.

 

[vhawk]

actually, there are such things as "angels" and "spirits". you even have "spirit guides." all these entities aren't necessarily christian/catholic/whatever but they do exist. there's a whole other world that we've learned to tune out to, but if you learn to develop your psychic abilities, you can tap into it. no, i'm not joking.

Really.....And saying they exist makes it so? Please, oh please, tell me that I can't prove they DON'T exist. Thats my favorite.

 

[vhawk]

There ARE unicorns and leprachauns, you just have to develop your unicorn/leprachaun detecting abilities in order to be able to see them....

 

[it.]

Really.....And saying they exist makes it so? Please, oh please, tell me that I can't prove they DON'T exist. Thats my favorite.

haha, yeah, i suppose i do sound like a nut here. i used to be a skeptic too until i saw/experienced these things, so i guess i can't do much here to convince you...it helps to have another psychic kinda guide you along...but none of that miss cleo type stuff though

 

[vhawk]

haha, yeah, i suppose i do sound like a nut here. i used to be a skeptic too until i saw/experienced these things, so i guess i can't do much here to convince you...it helps to have another psychic kinda guide you along...but none of that miss cleo type stuff though

Why? If the idea is that we accept things that are not falsifiable or observable, whats wrong with believing in psychics, telekinesis, tea leaves, God, etc? I don't mean to attack you, it just is always weird to me how people who leave rational thought behind manage to draw the line at things they WON'T accept.

 

[synapse lapse]

actually, there are such things as "angels" and "spirits". you even have "spirit guides." all these entities aren't necessarily christian/catholic/whatever but they do exist. there's a whole other world that we've learned to tune out to, but if you learn to develop your psychic abilities, you can tap into it. no, i'm not joking.

What a crock. You selectively chose to believe in things in the absence of evidence simply because you "experienced" them, yeat you discount other peoples accounts of experiences for unexplainable things? Why not just accept any stupid story I tell you as fact, after all, I may have experienced that. No rational person can accept faith as evidence, as faith is simply belief in the absence of reason. I find it very disconcerting that people that consider themselves scientists and rationalists accept so much without critically evaluating it or even arguing for their own absurd positive statements.

 

[domukin]

Waiting for a PubMed link....

 

[it.]

Why? If the idea is that we accept things that are not falsifiable or observable, whats wrong with believing in psychics, telekinesis, tea leaves, God, etc? I don't mean to attack you, it just is always weird to me how people who leave rational thought behind manage to draw the line at things they WON'T accept.

my memory is a little foggy, but wasn't miss cleo exposed to be a fraud?? i guess what i meant to say was watch out for frauds. sorry for the crappy wording

 

[vhawk]

Well, Miss Cleo was exposed as orchestrating a fraudulent company, along with tax evasion, etc... No one ever exposed her "psychic abilities" as fraudulent...at least, not any more so than any other "psychic abilities." I guess the point of my post was that, once you have ditched falsifiability and observation as your basis for belief, what can you honestly and legitimately NOT believe in? It becomes hypocritical for you to say aliens ARENT abducting people, leprauchans DONT exist, and Big Foot isn't roaming around. As a matter of fact, you can't really discount the idea of Santa Claus either, since many people have seen and experienced Santa Claus (mostly children). I'm always curious as to how you can possibly draw any sort of line, and I was wondering if you could shed any light on that for us.

 

[vhawk]

And before we look too literal or foolish or like we can't take a joke, if it. is being facetious, he did specifically say he was NOT joking, so I am forced to take what he says at face value.

 

[it.]

Well, Miss Cleo was exposed as orchestrating a fraudulent company, along with tax evasion, etc... No one ever exposed her "psychic abilities" as fraudulent...at least, not any more so than any other "psychic abilities." I guess the point of my post was that, once you have ditched falsifiability and observation as your basis for belief, what can you honestly and legitimately NOT believe in? It becomes hypocritical for you to say aliens ARENT abducting people, leprauchans DONT exist, and Big Foot isn't roaming around. As a matter of fact, you can't really discount the idea of Santa Claus either, since many people have seen and experienced Santa Claus (mostly children). I'm always curious as to how you can possibly draw any sort of line, and I was wondering if you could shed any light on that for us.

well, then miss cleo was a bad example.

as for your question, well, therein lies the problem with introspection and subjective experience. as far as we know, you cannot possibly perceive my reality as i see it. this, of course, makes it difficult to convince someone such as yourself of the existence of, say, "spirits", based on my personal experience. i can't deny these things. but who said i don't believe in alien abductions, leprauchans, Big Foot, or santa claus? it's usually in my best interest to flat out deny these things in public, but given my disposition, i can't selectively choose what or what not to believe, and so, with regards to the latter, you're correct. i secretly can't and don't draw a line. in my loony world, i like to think that, based on my experience, 😉 hehe, consciousness is a very powerful thing...ANYTHING is possible...crazy, i know.

i admit, i don't know how to reconcile the opposition between the supposed "rational" world with the belief/experience-based supernatural. it's difficult to juggle two seemingly opposing ideas at the same time, but they both resonate with me...there's that strong gut feeling telling me to go ahead with it...now, if i could only show that extra-sensory perception/psychic phenomena/etc are not limited to personal experience but are in fact realities accessible to everyone...

hope i made sense...it's 4am and i'm kinda tired...

 

[pillowhead]

I just wanted to point out that until very recent developments in neuroscience, pain was something that was totally a subjective experience and yet no one denied the existence of pain (hopefully you wouldn't, too.) Maybe you could say well, their breathing rate and heart rate increases, but the same things happens to people speaking in tongues.

Personally, I don't believe people can be possessed nor do I believe in angels, psychic ability, etc. But I'm also not willing to totally slam these people's belief systems due to lack of evidence. Almost every single person in the world believes in something totally unprovable, so unless you and everyone who know and respect are absolute atheists, cut people a little bit of slack.

 

[nev]

Im just glad that someone from Rice supports how rediculous this thread is because like most snobby east coasters I believe that only someone from south of the mason-dixon line would be dumb enough to believe this.

if OP was my patient Id take the time to be sensitive to his/her beliefs and explain that exorsism aint my thang but since they arent and are supporsed to be my future collegue I can say how f-ing crazy you are and I hope you fail out before you go screwing up some poor psychotic bastards life by pouring holy water on them.
wow

hey jacka$$ simion, did u ever consider reading the name of the thread before posting a reply?....this thread was to question identifying demonic possessions, not ridding it. Secondly, if u feel that this was a stupid thread, then ur even dumbber by responding to it. I'd rather fail medical school than have the heart to watch u perform as a doctor (if thats ever scientifically possible), which isnt, as u proved it in ur response.


one more word of advice. Think before u write, if u can think.

 

[Napoleon1801]

Profound:


"Secondly, if u feel that this was a stupid thread, then ur even dumbber by responding to it."


These forums never cease to amaze me. 😎