Expectations of med student in surgery rotation?

[Blitz2006]

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med student from england coming in next month to do GSurg elective.

Just wondering what the expectations are of a MS III student on a surgery rotation?

Fully competent in:

suturing? stapling? Central lines? Starting IV sets?

Don't want to get my ass kicked on the first day...

and whats a normal day....5am until 5pm is what I'm expecting....?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

med student from england coming in next month to do GSurg elective.

Just wondering what the expectations are of a MS III student on a surgery rotation?

Fully competent in:

suturing? stapling? Central lines? Starting IV sets?

The expectations for your technical skills will be minimal. Most attendings will expect you to be somewhat competent (and teachable) when it comes to knot tying and suturing. That's about it.

However, the truth is that those skills just don't matter as a US student - you aren't evaluated on them; what matters is the above the neck portion of your performance.

The expectations you will need to live up to will relate to your understanding of how the US system works, your ability to function within the team and contribute, and your knowledge of the relevant disease processes and patient presentations.

and whats a normal day....5am until 5pm is what I'm expecting....?

Highly variable to the point that I would say there is no "normal". When I was an MS3 my typical day was 4:15 am til 6-8pm; students at the institution where I do my residency seem to have saner hours.

 

[Blitz2006]

serious eh? So basically I should just spend my nights reading like a mofo...hmm, thx.

I was planning on buying bananas by the bucket load and practice my suturing...but if it doesn't matter.....

The expectations for your technical skills will be minimal. Most attendings will expect you to be somewhat competent (and teachable) when it comes to knot tying and suturing. That's about it.

However, the truth is that those skills just don't matter as a US student - you aren't evaluated on them; what matters is the above the neck portion of your performance.

The expectations you will need to live up to will relate to your understanding of how the US system works, your ability to function within the team and contribute, and your knowledge of the relevant disease processes and patient presentations.



Highly variable to the point that I would say there is no "normal". When I was an MS3 my typical day was 4:15 am til 6-8pm; students at the institution where I do my residency seem to have saner hours.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Well, I wouldn't say those skills don't matter at all, but they aren't usually what you're evaluated on. If you're looking to get more involved in cases than being the retractor bitch, it'd be wise to show some technical skill. If not, though, you can get by just fine with some very basic sewing competency and instrument ties. That said, I agree totally that the way to a good grade is shoring up your knowledge.

edit: My hours were 5-7 or later on one of my rotations and roughly 5:30-6:30 on the other, just FYI.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Mostly 5a-5p, with a few 4a-6p thrown in not counting overnight calls.

I agree that most of your eval will come from your knowledge base, if you are enthusiastic, and if you work well with the team. As a third year student you aren't expected to have technical prowess. However, demonstrating technical skill is how you "advance" to the next level of procedures in the OR. I can clearly remember starting with closing lap ports with a running subcuticular stitch and gradually getting to do more and more until I was allowed to solo a small procedure start-to-finish in the OR near the end of the rotation.

 

[Winged Scapula]

med student from england coming in next month to do GSurg elective.

Just wondering what the expectations are of a MS III student on a surgery rotation?

Fully competent in:

suturing? stapling? Central lines? Starting IV sets?

As others have noted, your surgical skills aren't what you are being evaluated on.

I do expect that 3rd year students have some experience (even with pigs trotters or bananas) in doing an interrupted and a running subcuticular suture, as well as two handed ties.

Stapling, well that's a reasonable skill to have.

Central lines? No. Many US students will graduate from medical school never having done one. I certainly would not expect an MS-3 to have *any* experience doing one.

Starting IVs? Nope. In the US that's almost always the job of nursing staff or IV teams. However it is a reasonable skill to have (because you will get called as a resident on the hard sticks), and you can always arrive to the pre-op area early and as the nurses if you can start them for the cases of the day.

So I'd say that stapling, some modest suturing and removing drains would be all I would expect. Your judgement and insight into patient management are much, much more important.

Remember, you can teach am monkey to operate. 😉

and whats a normal day....5am until 5pm is what I'm expecting....?

I would say that's sort of a minimum but is highly dependent on program, census and rotation.

 

[vicinihil]

Depends on where you do your surgery rotation. I was lucky to do mine at a VA where all the staff leave at 5pm. My days were 5am-5pm at the latest. My friends however who were not so lucky definitely did 4am-6pm or later shifts.

I think your performance on rounds matters more than you rperformance in the OR. Knowing your patients overnight status and presenting them correctly is half the beast. Showing off knowledge in clinic will also help. In the OR, there is so many layers of residents/chief/fellow/attendings between you and the patient that you will most likely be handed suture scissors and cut the thread.

 

[Blitz2006]

Cool, thanks for those responses.

Looking forward to the experience.

So I guess now my follow up question is.....what should I do to impress the attendings then, if its all about knowledge? Obv my end goal is to get decent LORs...

And also, on the 1st day, should I just introduce myself to the PD? Or would that be too up front?

I don't know how ward rounds work in the U.S, I'll be honest. All my observerships in past years in the States have been in outpatient clinics or observing in OR....so my only experience of american ward rounds is what I see on scrubs on tv!

So I hear these stories of 'gunners' trying to look good in front of colleagues by name dropping random/rare pathology while rounding, which I assume is frowned upon?

 

[wannabeORnurse]

Yes I know this is a yr old ready but just in case anyone wants to learn about this.
So funny.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/q5Zc3b9Y1Os[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/jSsw7yOm2mE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[KnuxNole]

med student from england coming in next month to do GSurg elective.

Just wondering what the expectations are of a MS III student on a surgery rotation?

Fully competent in:

suturing? stapling? Central lines? Starting IV sets?

Don't want to get my ass kicked on the first day...

and whats a normal day....5am until 5pm is what I'm expecting....?

Have a pulse. Don't fall asleep IN the OR(I almost fell asleep twice 😱).