Expected salary for 9 to 5 gig?

[Mman]

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It's not really a surprise, it's SAD that they would make that much. If you don't see that, that's problematic. Them making doctor salaries when they are nurses is pretty sad for the medical profession.

You have no idea what physicians are making. Or at least what non primary care physicians are making.

I'd agree that pediatricians and internists and family practitioners get paid too little for the great care they provide.

But if you understood the politics of the rural pass through legislation and how that worked as well as how reimbursement in anesthesia works, you wouldn't be SAD about the salaries for CRNAs. There are other reasons to be MAD.

 

[Zumba]

You have no idea what physicians are making. Or at least what non primary care physicians are making.

I'd agree that pediatricians and internists and family practitioners get paid too little for the great care they provide.

But if you understood the politics of the rural pass through legislation and how that worked as well as how reimbursement in anesthesia works, you wouldn't be SAD about the salaries for CRNAs. There are other reasons to be MAD.

So you have no problem with CRNAs making 150-200k then?

 

[pgg]

It's not really a surprise, it's SAD that they would make that much. If you don't see that, that's problematic. Them making doctor salaries when they are nurses is pretty sad for the medical profession.

If you tie your sense of self worth to what other people earn, you're in for a lifetime of heartburn.

 

[Mman]

So you have no problem with CRNAs making 150-200k then?

No. That isn't our starting salary for a CRNA, but our CRNAs are only working 40 hrs per week. But we have several that earn that or more by working lots of overtime and having a higher base salary after decades of raises.

And if we lowered our salaries, we'd lose more of our CRNAs. They'd take jobs elsewhere that paid more. They already are turning down more money elsewhere to work for us.

Do you have a problem with a free market?

Quick additional tip: when you see the salary of a nurse somewhere, it's likely in the setting of them bragging about how much they get paid. If you see the salary of a physician somewhere, it's likely them whining about deserving to be paid more. I couldn't even tell you the salaries of the surgeons in our area. Tightly guarded secrets. I can guesstimate, but that's about it. Nobody knows how much we as anesthesiologists earn either. It's private info and we tell nobody. In a political environment where everybody whines about doctors getting paid too much, nobody that is being paid fairly will let you know how much they make. Because whatever it is, somebody will say it's too much.

 

[Zumba]

No. That isn't our starting salary for a CRNA, but our CRNAs are only working 40 hrs per week. But we have several that earn that or more by working lots of overtime and having a higher base salary after decades of raises.

And if we lowered our salaries, we'd lose more of our CRNAs. They'd take jobs elsewhere that paid more. They already are turning down more money elsewhere to work for us.

Do you have a problem with a free market?

Quick additional tip: when you see the salary of a nurse somewhere, it's likely in the setting of them bragging about how much they get paid. If you see the salary of a physician somewhere, it's likely them whining about deserving to be paid more. I couldn't even tell you the salaries of the surgeons in our area. Tightly guarded secrets. I can guesstimate, but that's about it. Nobody knows how much we as anesthesiologists earn either. It's private info and we tell nobody. In a political environment where everybody whines about doctors getting paid too much, nobody that is being paid fairly will let you know how much they make. Because whatever it is, somebody will say it's too much.

My question again- so you don't care, in a political climate where costs are getting cut, that nurses are making the same or more than many many drs? No wonder we are losing this fight. Many make the same or more than anesthesiologists. Why are they also working only 40 hours? At those rates and working only 40 hours, they are making more than some anesthesiologists are they not?

 

[Mman]

My question again- so you don't care, in a political climate where costs are getting cut, that nurses are making the same or more than many many drs? No wonder we are losing this fight. Many make the same or more than anesthesiologists. Why are they also working only 40 hours? At those rates and working only 40 hours, they are making more than some anesthesiologists are they not?

You are severely misinformed on the issue. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Zumba]

You are severely misinformed on the issue. I'll leave it at that.

Ok. It's possible that I am, but by your own statement, CRNAs are only working 40 hours,and you said many are making much more than the 150-200k that I posted. So many new anesthesiology grads are starting in the 250-300k range, and that is definitely over 40 hours. Would you mind explaining to me how 250-300k working 50+ hrs is not about the same as someone making say 200k as a CRNA working only 40 hours, and with none of the responsibility?

Maybe if you started practice years ago when things weren't a disaster you are doing well, but for those of us who will be starting in the next few years, not so much. Salaries are very comparable these days. That is concerning, and I don't think it's just concerning for me.

 

[Mman]

Ok. It's possible that I am, but by your own statement, CRNAs are only working 40 hours,and you said many are making much more than the 150-200k that I posted. So many new anesthesiology grads are starting in the 250-300k range, and that is definitely over 40 hours. Would you mind explaining to me how 250-300k working 50+ hrs is not about the same as someone making say 200k as a CRNA working only 40 hours, and with none of the responsibility?

Maybe if you started practice years ago when things weren't a disaster you are doing well, but for those of us who will be starting in the next few years, not so much. Salaries are very comparable these days. That is concerning, and I don't think it's just concerning for me.

I can't help you. I've read through all your previous posts on these forums between radiology and the general forums and nearly every single post is about money and lifestyle.

FYI a starting salary for a new grad in anesthesiology is different than what they earn as a partner. A lot different. CRNA salaries on the other hand don't dramatically increase over time.

And I didn't start a long time ago. I started 3 years ago. And I earn loads of $ more than our CRNAs. But I also work harder and have more responsibility/liability. No successful group (i.e. partners making lots of money) is going to hire somebody so interested in making money. The money is secondary. If the group is successful and efficient, the money will follow.


Let's just say you don't know the correct numbers for the fields and you aren't in the job market right now and the opinions you have formed off your incorrect assumptions are faulty. Average starting salary for a new grad CRNA is probably in the neighborhood of $110K to $130K in an area with average cost of living, adjust from there for location.

 

[Zumba]

I can't help you. I've read through all your previous posts on these forums between radiology and the general forums and nearly every single post is about money and lifestyle.

FYI a starting salary for a new grad in anesthesiology is different than what they earn as a partner. A lot different. CRNA salaries on the other hand don't dramatically increase over time.

And I didn't start a long time ago. I started 3 years ago. And I earn loads of $ more than our CRNAs. But I also work harder and have more responsibility/liability. No successful group (i.e. partners making lots of money) is going to hire somebody so interested in making money. The money is secondary. If the group is successful and efficient, the money will follow.


Let's just say you don't know the correct numbers for the fields and you aren't in the job market right now and the opinions you have formed off your incorrect assumptions are faulty. Average starting salary for a new grad CRNA is probably in the neighborhood of $110K to $130K in an area with average cost of living, adjust from there for location.

Ok.

 

[MOHS_01]

MOHs took a huge hit lately, and MOHs are making in the 400k range not the 800k plus range as before. So while it's certainly not. Bad it's comparable to other specialties. Also what makes derm lucrative is that they can see many pts a day given many low complexity issues. I had an attending that would see 60 pts a day. So do the math. Again the cosmetic dealio is not necessarily what makes derm that lucrative given that there is limited number of ppl willing and able to pay for cosmetic services and a brutal amt of competition for these clients, not to mention that this brings extra overhead and headache. But overall making 350k for banker hours overall and little liability is not bad. That's why derm is so competitive.

When I was doing a fair amount of general derm, I would have 45 openings in my morning schedule and see anywhere from 40-50. Busted my hump. My colleagues have not taken quite the hit one would suspect from the loss of the multiple procedure reduction exemption as would be expected, but that's due to diversification of patient mix, changes to practice parameters, and increased volume.

350k is gravy... assuming you're not working 50% harder than you were a year ago to achieve it. 😱

 

[DrAwsome]

When I was doing a fair amount of general derm, I would have 45 openings in my morning schedule and see anywhere from 40-50. Busted my hump. My colleagues have not taken quite the hit one would suspect from the loss of the multiple procedure reduction exemption as would be expected, but that's due to diversification of patient mix, changes to practice parameters, and increased volume.

350k is gravy... assuming you're not working 50% harder than you were a year ago to achieve it. 😱

I'm not sure what you mean by "350k is gravy."

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm not sure what you mean by "350k is gravy."

$350K is a piece of cake for Derm. Most make in excess of $600K even in this recession

 

[DrAwsome]

$350K is a piece of cake for Derm. Most make in excess of $600K even in this recession

I don't know about that. Seems excessively high for gen derm from what I've seen. Not talking cosmetics but gen derm. So are you saying that avg reported salaries are a bunch of "malarky" then?

 

[BLADEMDA]

I don't know about that. Seems excessively high for gen derm from what I've seen. Not talking cosmetics but gen derm. So are you saying that avg reported salaries are a bunch of "malarky" then?

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[DrAwsome]

Yes. Absolutely.

I see. I still don't believe the average dermatologist makes 600k for general derm. None of my colleagues do. But ok. I guess it's pointless to look at the posted salaries then.

 

[pmichaelmd]

I think it is a double-edged sword. Anonymously reported salaries have the greatest likelihood of being accurate, but motive has to be examined. Is it really in the individual's, or group's, best interest to report accurately? Does any group REALLY want to publish accurate salary figures? There may be some backlash if that occurred and it might be better to keep numbers somewhat obscured. Perception can affect reality. Do you really want your surgeons to envy you because you drive a Ferrari in to work as a daily driver while they leave the OR for yet another late evening session of clinic and rounds? As a whole, this could drive perception of our specialty toward a place we don't want to go, and give fodder to our detractors. Don't get me wrong, I feel that I (we) work hard and certainly earn every cent we make. Still, I would rather practice some small amount of stealth and chuckle my way to the bank. I have nice toys, but not the absolute "best."

In a general sense, I find it useful to describe numbers in relation to MGMA standard numbers. Whether or not those numbers are accurate...oopsie.

PMMD

 

[DrAwsome]

I think it is a double-edged sword. Anonymously reported salaries have the greatest likelihood of being accurate, but motive has to be examined. Is it really in the individual's, or group's, best interest to report accurately? Does any group REALLY want to publish accurate salary figures? There may be some backlash if that occurred and it might be better to keep numbers somewhat obscured. Perception can affect reality. Do you really want your surgeons to envy you because you drive a Ferrari in to work as a daily driver while they leave the OR for yet another late evening session of clinic and rounds? As a whole, this could drive perception of our specialty toward a place we don't want to go, and give fodder to our detractors. Don't get me wrong, I feel that I (we) work hard and certainly earn every cent we make. Still, I would rather practice some small amount of stealth and chuckle my way to the bank. I have nice toys, but not the absolute "best."

In a general sense, I find it useful to describe numbers in relation to MGMA standard numbers. Whether or not those numbers are accurate...oopsie.

PMMD

Certainly agree with that.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I see. I still don't believe the average dermatologist makes 600k for general derm. None of my colleagues do. But ok. I guess it's pointless to look at the posted salaries then.

Yes, it is pointless. If you aren't earning $400K plus doing Derm then you are an employee (which is fine) or aren't hussling much during the day. The Dermatologists around here easily earn $600K working hard or $350K working at a more leisurely pace.

I've met Employed Dermatologists right out of Residency earning $350K. I've also met the employer of that employee who clears $1.5 million a year.

 

[gasflea]

I could write volumes on why I loathe clinic work. The highlights, off the top of my head:

- I basically dislike talking to people about their self-inflicted problems, which is about 97% of non-pediatric medicine.

- Pediatric patients typically have parents with them.

Wow, have to agree with this whole post. I am a PGY-3 IM switching over next year... I have 6 half days of clinic each week on this rotation... very depressing. Can't wait for next year!