Explain New Traffic Rules

[To Freedom]

I keep seeing this mentioned, can someone please help explain to me and any others who may not know what this new traffic rules are and how they might affect this cycle? Thanks!

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[Goro]

Let's get @Pathdocmd 's advice as well!!!

 

[Med Ed]

I keep seeing this mentioned, can someone please help explain to me and any others who may not know what this new traffic rules are and how they might affect this cycle? Thanks!

If you are accepted you will likely be required to declare an intent to enroll and then begin substantive action at the school: financial aid, vaccinations, etc. If you fail to do those things your acceptance may be rescinded.

In years past it has actually been quite clear when an accepted applicant has no intention of matriculating. Those are the people who you don't hear anything from after they accept the seat. This wasn't an issue in the past because of the multiple acceptance report and the traffic rules.

In the past most schools have put little stock in LOI's and updates. I feel that may change now. If you have been waitlisted, a judicious LOI/update in the spring may broadcast that you are still on the market and still interested, two features that a given school may find appealing as it attempts to blindly navigate its waitlist.

 

[Sheiko]

In the past most schools have put little stock in LOI's and updates. I feel that may change now. If you have been waitlisted, a judicious LOI/update in the spring may broadcast that you are still on the market and still interested, two features that a given school may find appealing as it attempts to blindly navigate its waitlist.

Are you referring to letters of interest or intent? I'm suprised to hear this, it seems like most of the adcoms and faculty here discourage people from sending such letters.


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[hopefulCAdoc]

Are you referring to letters of interest or intent? I'm suprised to hear this, it seems like most of the adcoms and faculty here discourage people from sending such letters.


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N=1 but I know someone who was waitlisted at a top 5 school and was accepted a week after sending a letter of intent. His stats were at the lower end of the school’s range.

 

[Med Ed]

Are you referring to letters of interest or intent? I'm suprised to hear this, it seems like most of the adcoms and faculty here discourage people from sending such letters.

True, and before they did away with the multiple acceptance report I was firmly in that camp. But the new landscape is different, and schools may be generally more interested in this type of correspondence.

We will have to see how thing shake out for a couple of cycles before a more definitive conclusion is drawn.

 

[Med Ed]

N=1 but I know someone who was waitlisted at a top 5 school and was accepted a week after sending a letter of intent. His stats were at the lower end of the school’s range.

N > 1 but I know many who sent letters of intent and got nothing.

 

[hopefulCAdoc]

N > 1 but I know many who sent letters of intent and got nothing.

Yeah it doesn’t always work. I know many people here discourage it but I sent an LOI at my top school and received an II 3 days later. My stats are below their 10th percentile. To each their own.

 

[Med Ed]

Yeah it doesn’t always work. I know many people here discourage it but I sent an LOI at my top school and received an II 3 days later. My stats are below their 10th percentile. To each their own.

My cat knocked a pie on the floor, then it rained.

I obviously cannot exclude the possibility that your LOI made a difference, it’s just not a very scientific assumption. Most LOI’s are sent when schools are making interview decisions, so a temporal association is not unexpected. Schools also interview many applicants with stats below their respective 10th percentiles, so nothing unusual there.

Perhaps this deserves more study. Hmmm...

 

[Sheiko]

True, and before they did away with the multiple acceptance report I was firmly in that camp. But the new landscape is different, and schools may be generally more interested in this type of correspondence.

We will have to see how thing shake out for a couple of cycles before a more definitive conclusion is drawn.

Thanks for your insight!

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[gyngyn]

Large, non-refundable deposits are going to increase... dramatically.

 

[To Freedom]

1) Before as @Goro always likes to point out, a letter of intent was a promise with no requirement to be kept. If schools start requiring use of "intent to enroll" via AMCAS, an applicant better make sure there is a single LOI that matches it.

2) I wonder if the constant talk of making WL/Alternate a formal status within AMCAS will also follow this path. That is, if AMCAS will add a WL tool where students can declare "intent to accept if offered." From an enrollment planning perspective, which is what these tools are for, it would make great sense.

3) Taking that further, it would make sense to have an AMCAS function for "applicant update" that could be sent out to all schools applied to. Something like a 700 character field.

Thank you, I understand this new change quite clearly now

 

[Goro]

1) Before as @Goro always likes to point out, a letter of intent was a promise with no requirement to be kept. If schools start requiring use of "intent to enroll" via AMCAS, an applicant better make sure there is a single LOI that matches it.

2) I wonder if the constant talk of making WL/Alternate a formal status within AMCAS will also follow this path. That is, if AMCAS will add a WL tool where students can declare "intent to accept if offered." From an enrollment planning perspective, which is what these tools are for, it would make great sense.

3) Taking that further, it would make sense to have an AMCAS function for "applicant update" that could be sent out to all schools applied to. Something like a 700 character field.

I think in the environment of the lost traffic rules, that I will not advise people holding at least one accept to write LOintents. But to people with no IIs, they have zero leverage, and will continue to harp on LOInterest being their apps, not further love letters.

Large, non-refundable deposits are going to increase... dramatically.

Welcome to the DO school world, everyone!

 

[DrRiker]

Large, non-refundable deposits are going to increase... dramatically.

Fortunately they haven't yet, from my experience as a current applicant. We'll see how this changes..

 

[medschoolzombie]

1) Before as @Goro always likes to point out, a letter of intent was a promise with no requirement to be kept. If schools start requiring use of "intent to enroll" via AMCAS, an applicant better make sure there is a single LOI that matches it.

2) I wonder if the constant talk of making WL/Alternate a formal status within AMCAS will also follow this path. That is, if AMCAS will add a WL tool where students can declare "intent to accept if offered." From an enrollment planning perspective, which is what these tools are for, it would make great sense.

3) Taking that further, it would make sense to have an AMCAS function for "applicant update" that could be sent out to all schools applied to. Something like a 700 character field.

So does this mean schools can take legal action against applicants that send more than one LOI?

Plus how would this system work in poaching circumstances? If an applicant matriculates at school A then gets an offer from school B and wants to go there/sent an LOI there too earlier, then what would their status be? If A was their only option, they had to have picked committed to enroll/enrolled on amcas.

This sounds like everything is just being put in more legal terms.

 

[climbrunskirepeat]

So does this mean schools can take legal action against applicants that send more than one LOI?

Plus how would this system work in poaching circumstances? If an applicant matriculates at school A then gets an offer from school B and wants to go there/sent an LOI there too earlier, then what would their status be? If A was their only option, they had to have picked committed to enroll/enrolled on amcas.

This sounds like everything is just being put in more legal terms.

From gonnif above, it looks like they're trying to change this to a bottom-up process. Instead of LOIs, could it be that they are trying to push the "Choose your medical school" tool as a mandatory process? https://students-residents.aamc.org...icle/amcas-choosing-your-medical-school-tool/

 

[medschoolzombie]

From gonnif above, it looks like they're trying to change this to a bottom-up process. Instead of LOIs, could it be that they are trying to push the "Choose your medical school" tool as a mandatory process? https://students-residents.aamc.org...icle/amcas-choosing-your-medical-school-tool/

But how does that work with the other dates? They give us until mid April to narrow it down to 3 and the 30th to get it to one so this just seems like an extra step on our part

 

[climbrunskirepeat]

As for the April dates (I dont know where you got the three from), schools will be using the AMCAS tool as the way to determine that. In other words, schools are very likely going to use the AMCAS tools in lieu of taking any separate LOIs.

FYI from https://students-residents.aamc.org...icle/amcas-choosing-your-medical-school-tool/
Applicant standpoint:
Feb 19 - Plan to Enroll becomes available
Apr 15 - Asked to narrow acceptance offers to 3
Apr 30 - Commit to Enroll becomes available (Commit to Enroll = I withdrew all my other acceptances/applications)

 

[medschoolzombie]

There is this perception that "poaching" while technically allowed, is actually going to happen. If schools will require applicants to use these tools that AMCAS is making available,; that is applicants must use "intent to enroll" (aka LOI), "commit to enroll", etc., will allow schools to know your status including matriculation. Many schools are also updating policies on acceptance offer with provision that you cannot be matriculated at time of offer. In other words, your acceptance is contingent on not being matriculated elsewhere. Despite the rumor and myth, there is likely to be little to no poaching this cycle. As for the April dates (I dont know where you got the three from), schools will be using the AMCAS tool as the way to determine that. In other words, schools are very likely going to use the AMCAS tools in lieu of taking any separate LOIs.

Where do you normally see these conditions in an acceptance offer? Mine only asked me to pick either of the “ I’m attending x place” or “ I’m not attending x place” bubbles

April’s dates are from amcas

 

[To Freedom]

FYI from https://students-residents.aamc.org...icle/amcas-choosing-your-medical-school-tool/
Applicant standpoint:
Feb 19 - Plan to Enroll becomes available
Apr 15 - Asked to narrow acceptance offers to 3
Apr 30 - Commit to Enroll becomes available (Commit to Enroll = I withdrew all my other acceptances/applications)

Do we actually go on AMCAS to commit or plan to enroll? I’m thinking the schools would be in charge of handing these? My current acceptance said they’ll send an email closer to those dates asking if you plan or commit to enroll.

 

[premed7796]

So, considering the new rules, for a school that begins accepting in December, would it be smarter to send an update/LOI (intent) now/before Dec. or wait until I am potentially put on a WL?

Thanks!

 

[climbrunskirepeat]

Do we actually go on AMCAS to commit or plan to enroll? I’m thinking the schools would be in charge of handing these? My current acceptance said they’ll send an email closer to those dates asking if you plan or commit to enroll.

Based on this: https://students-residents.aamc.org...ation-and-acceptance-protocols-admission-off/
I'm guessing schools notify you and AMCAS of acceptance. Come Feb you rank, schools can see that and adjust acceptances as necessary.
"This tool was established to support schools and their admissions policies and procedures. This tool should not be the primary means of communication by the applicant with schools."
Based on this you just follow normal procedures dictated by the school to accept. The tool is for med schools to estimate WL? Not sure.

 

[medschoolzombie]

Do we actually go on AMCAS to commit or plan to enroll? I’m thinking the schools would be in charge of handing these? My current acceptance said they’ll send an email closer to those dates asking if you plan or commit to enroll.

What is the difference? Is committing like just saying you have an interest in the school?

 

[To Freedom]

What is the difference? Is committing like just saying you have an interest in the school?

This was what they said.
You may choose “Plan to Enroll” or “Commit to Enroll” after April 30.

The Adcoms may have a better idea but from the phrasing, I'm guessing "plan to enroll" means you can always still defer if you get another acceptance, but "committing" means you're permanently sticking with them.

 

[gyngyn]

This was what they said.
You may choose “Plan to Enroll” or “Commit to Enroll” after April 30.

The Adcoms may have a better idea but from the phrasing, I'm guessing "plan to enroll" means you can always still defer if you get another acceptance, but "committing" means you're permanently sticking with them.

This is one of many reasons that a hefty deposit is forthcoming.
Right now, MSAR has no provision for this. Hopefully, there will be additional space to indicate the "intent to enroll fee" by Spring.

 

[medschoolzombie]

This is one of many reasons that a hefty deposit is forthcoming.
Right now, MSAR has no provision for this. Hopefully, there will be additional space to indicate the "intent to enroll fee" by Spring.

When you say forthcoming do you mean for this cycle? I thought all deposits were refundable until April? Also how much are we lookin at here

 

[gyngyn]

When you say forthcoming do you mean for this cycle? I thought all deposits were refundable until April? Also how much are we lookin at here

The relatively small and refundable deposits that are collected by some schools at acceptance are not affected.

What will be affected are the larger, non-refundable (except as tuition) deposits that are being planned to offset the lack of traffic rules. These will be required some time during or after April, I imagine. I'd say $1,000 or so.

 

[medschoolzombie]

The relatively small and refundable deposits that are collected by some schools at acceptance are not affected.

What will be affected are the larger, non-refundable (except as tuition) deposits that are being planned to offset the lack of traffic rules. These will be required some time during or after April, I imagine. I'd say $1,000 or so.

Aren’t these the same thing? Most schools ask you to put down a $100-200 to hold your seat. Is this a 1000 on top of that

 

[gyngyn]

Aren’t these the same thing? Most schools ask you to put down a $100-200 to hold your seat. Is this a 1000 on top of that

No. The early deposit has nothing to do with reserving a seat. They are completely refundable and do not exceed $100 (except at Georgetown).
The deposits that will start this Spring will be much larger and designed to identify who is actually likely to attend.

 

[RNtoMD87]

So they're increasing deposits, yet a concern is that lower income people have a more difficult time getting in. How do they expect lower income applicants to afford to interview at the 20+ schools typically necessary?

 

[Med Ed]

So they're increasing deposits, yet a concern is that lower income people have a more difficult time getting in. How do they expect lower income applicants to afford to interview at the 20+ schools typically necessary?

You put down the deposit after getting in.

Nobody interviews at 20+ schools.

The fee assistance program (FAP) was created to help low income applicants afford the MCAT and AMCAS applications. It's not perfect, but it's far better than nothing.

Ultimately this process costs money. If you want to play the game you need to find a way to get some.

 

[RNtoMD87]

You put down the deposit after getting in.

Nobody interviews at 20+ schools.

The fee assistance program (FAP) was created to help low income applicants afford the MCAT and AMCAS applications. It's not perfect, but it's far better than nothing.

Ultimately this process costs money. If you want to play the game you need to find a way to get some.

Ah in my head I was thinking application fees and when I said interview I was thinking apply.


Long crazy night

 

[Throwaway5129]

The relatively small and refundable deposits that are collected by some schools at acceptance are not affected.

What will be affected are the larger, non-refundable (except as tuition) deposits that are being planned to offset the lack of traffic rules. These will be required some time during or after April, I imagine. I'd say $1,000 or so.

And what about applicants who can’t afford the 1000? There’s a fee assistance program for a reason, some can’t even afford the 150 for the initial application.

 

[Med Ed]

And what about applicants who can’t afford the 1000? There’s a fee assistance program for a reason, some can’t even afford the 150 for the initial application.

Good question. Perhaps you should pose it in the premedical-DO forum... they have been putting up with huge deposits for years.

Offhand I think any school that is going to institute a large, non-refundable (except as tuition) deposit will have the foresight to offer partial waivers based on financial need, such as FAP status.

 

[907914]

The fee assistance program (FAP) was created to help low income applicants afford the MCAT and AMCAS applications. It's not perfect, but it's far better than nothing.

The FAP should work in theory for most students...It is unfortunate for those whose parents make too much but either can’t or choose not to help with the application, or a situation like mine as a Non-trad where I haven’t received any money from parents in a decade....

With these new traffic rules, will schools start waiting until April (or even after) to provide final acceptances to ‘guarantee’ students may only be able to afford their school (or anything along these lines)?

 

[Throwaway5129]

Good question. Perhaps you should pose it in the premedical-DO forum... they have been putting up with huge deposits for years.

Offhand I think any school that is going to institute a large, non-refundable (except as tuition) deposit will have the foresight to offer partial waivers based on financial need, such as FAP status.

Yes, I’m aware of that this is common place at DO schools. DO schools also only allow fee assistance up to 3 schools. They’re not exactly friendly to poorer students, I know of someone personally who couldn’t pay his deposit to a DO school and had his acceptance revoked. I don’t believe that just because DO schools do this, MD schools should to? If MD schools go this route, this will be a large barrier for myself and many other low income students I’m sure. This was a major reason why I didn’t apply to DO schools.

 

[gyngyn]

And what about applicants who can’t afford the 1000?

It will go toward tuition and thus be covered by students loans (if you matriculate there!).

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, I’m aware of that this is common place at DO schools. DO schools also only allow fee assistance up to 3 schools. They’re not exactly friendly to poorer students, I know of someone personally who couldn’t pay his deposit to a DO school and had his acceptance revoked. I don’t believe that just because DO schools do this, MD schools should to? If MD schools go this route, this will be a large barrier for myself and many other low income students I’m sure. This was a major reason why I didn’t apply to DO schools.

It wasn't our idea. We already explained this to the AAMC. Their lawyers only saw their exposure from the DoJ...

 

[Goro]

And what about applicants who can’t afford the 1000? There’s a fee assistance program for a reason, some can’t even afford the 150 for the initial application.

They may very well be out of luck sadly

 

[medschoolzombie]

Just to add to this on the large deposits, some medical schools have started something insidious a few years ago. They are asking for large deposits before April 30th that, if you read carefully, are not required. Usually this is done in conjunction with processing FA faster, etc. Why? Since it is a "voluntary" deposit, it is not covered by the refundable deposit guideline of AAMC. I have seen a few of the lower tier MD schools doing this, sometimes with their admissions "recruiters" pushing for it.

What does the language of these voluntary deposits look like?

 

[premedalt]

Actually the DOE. Because of problems with for-profit colleges of all types, who make used car salesmen look like honest as a nun, DOE wants to prevent any collusion and non-competitive behavior. As the AAMC is a college association promoting "guidelines" as almost required regulations, they felt they were exposing themselves as well as the schools to possible legal action. What they are trying to do now is to create student centric tools that allow applicants to share or shield their acceptances, intent to enroll, etc., in conjunction with "suggesting" guidelines that each individual school should formally adopt as part of their admissions process requiring students share this above. Hence it will be each individual school requiring the use (not the AAMC) and each student will have to agree to it (not required by the AAMC). Thus the AAMC is creating the legal equivalent of a sterile field for colo-rectal surgery so they cant get infected by any legal action. In another words, CYA.

My guess is that after the winter AAMC meetings (which are soon), schools will begin to adopt these and the AAMC will rollout their tools early next year.

Why doesn't aamc give students the option of letting schools see the students status at other schools?

 

[gyngyn]

Why doesn't aamc give students the option of letting schools see the students status at other schools?

They're not that smart.

 

[gyngyn]

Currently that could be seen as anticompetitive collusion

They're not that smart.

 

[applepie1212]

Do you think the new traffic rules will affect the timing of waitlist movement? Or will most of the movement still occur after the commit to enroll date?

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think the new traffic rules will affect the timing of waitlist movement? Or will most of the movement still occur after the commit to enroll date?

Nobody knows. I'd guess it will be after the "commit" date.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

@gyngyn @Med Ed @LizzyM
Do you have any thoughts on now these new traffic rules could change the behavior of schools that give out large merit scholarships to recruiter students? Do you anticipate these schools giving them out earlier, after the April “commitment” deadline or doing away with this practice entirely?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn @Med Ed @LizzyM
Do you have any thoughts on now these new traffic rules could change the behavior of schools that give out large merit scholarships to recruiter students? Do you anticipate these schools giving them out earlier, after the April “commitment” deadline or doing away with this practice entirely?

I really don't know.
It won't change anything where I work.

 

[Med Ed]

@gyngyn @Med Ed @LizzyM
Do you have any thoughts on now these new traffic rules could change the behavior of schools that give out large merit scholarships to recruiter students? Do you anticipate these schools giving them out earlier, after the April “commitment” deadline or doing away with this practice entirely?

In the past we never waited to offer money to high value candidates. It's pretty obvious when an applicant will have options, and if we want them we take a shot soon after the acceptance letter.

We'll have to wait a cycle or two for other institutions to make their new practices (if any) known.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

I really don't know.
It won't change anything where I work.

In the past we never waited to offer money to high value candidates. It's pretty obvious when an applicant will have options, and if we want them we take a shot soon after the acceptance letter.

We'll have to wait a cycle or two for other institutions to make their new practices (if any) known.

Thank you both for sharing your perspectives! I hope you and your schools are able to navigate the changing landscape caused by these new traffic rules, with minimized disorganization.

 

[Moose97]

What happens if you have one acceptance but are on the wait list for your preferred school? If you have to accept the one you have are you out if luck if you could have gotten accepted to the other school after April 30th?