Explain This !

[KAM]

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Why does being a "Lab rat" for a year or two consitute MD worthiness ?

Some of my friends doing reseach think of themselves as Nobel laureates of some sort. So bizarre, all you do is what they tell you to, no better than being someone's maid and not even getting paid for it !

Ur not a doctor, ur a scientist ! u don't help ppl, u isolate transgenic bacteria ! ahahha

Feel free to post !

 

[jbrice1639]

Why does being a "Lab rat" for a year or two consitute MD worthiness ?

maybe it doesn't...i was never a lab rat and i was deemed MD worthy in this process... 😉

 

[Bluntman]

Research is very important to med schools (and hence also in the backgrounds of people they want to admit) because advancements in medicine depend on it. I agree that a lot of undergrad research is bs...just following orders and hoping the PI is nice enough to stick your name on one of his papers for being the poor soul who had to sit around and watch the gels. There are a portion of undergrad research experiences that don't fall into this category, however, and instead involve more independence, thinking, and control over your projects. These are the types of research experiences that will hold the most weight in med school admissions, and are also the ones that are the most beneficial to the intellectual development of the student. To me, whether you fall into one category or the other depends both on the PI and his/her willingness to let you take on a project by yourself, and also on you and your willingness to approach the PI and show your eagerness and desire for more independent creative control over your project.

 

[jebus]

i think the idea is that all clinical knowledge is based on basic research and the scientific method provides the foundation upon which our understanding of the processes which blah blah blah.

 

[LizzyM]

Some (I emphasize some) medical schools fancy themselves as the producers of academic physicians, that means physicians who will go on to jobs in medical schools. These docs are expected to teach medical students, residents and fellows, care for patients (that's what pays the bills), and do research. Some medical schools presume that the person who does bench research as an undergrad is more likely than one who does not do lab research as an undergrad to choose to do research as a med student. Such a med student is more likely than one who did not do reseach as an undergrad or med student, to do research during residency & fellowship and in the end, a physician who has never done research is unlikely to choose a career path in academic medicine.

Not everyone who does research is going to enjoy it and seek out additional research experiences but the person who has never done that kind of work is unlikely to choose it as a career.

 

[tennisguy896]

Medicine did not all of a sudden spring into being. The field of medicine, as well as all other fields of science, has a slow process of evolution based on research. At many of the strongest medical schools, UCSF/Mayo/Harvard, there is a very strong emphasis on translational research because they don't merely want to teach medicine like many schools do, they actually want to contribute to progress in medicine. Whether you want to participate in medical progress or not will decide whether you want to participate in research.

 

[Sansfrontier]

Regardless of how important research is, don't do it if you don't like it. It's ok not to do it; not everybody is cut out for research. Also, remember that research isn't simply basic science (bench work) research. You can do clinical research, field research, etc...
Pray for a good PI, especially in basic science. It makes a huge difference. In clinical research, a good manager goes a long way to making it a memorable experience. (Your regular MD PI is too busy to get on your nerves; except when he thinks because he has the md he necessarily knows better.)
I tumbled into research, and I am lovin it.

 

[BozoSparky]

Why does being a "Lab rat" for a year or two consitute MD worthiness ?

Some of my friends doing reseach think of themselves as Nobel laureates of some sort. So bizarre, all you do is what they tell you to, no better than being someone's maid and not even getting paid for it !

Ur not a doctor, ur a scientist ! u don't help ppl, u isolate transgenic bacteria ! ahahha

Feel free to post !

I think it's great that science and medicine are coming together. As we truly enter the age of molecular medicine, physicians will have to be part scientist - the bag of tricks is growing by the day. We are going to be students for life. The art of medicine, or pattern recognition, or whatever you want to call that intuition that helps diagnosis it is truly amazing and blows my mind, but it doesn't lead to much progress.

 

[RxnMan]

Everythig has its place. Clinical research is, in many ways, quality control. If you're going to be good to your patients, you need to see what works and what doesn't. Basic science is the frontier of new medicine, and it needs to be developed to make new cures for medical challenges.

In addition, the process of research is educational. You may not ever touch a bench again, but you may have a patient who's condition you've never seen before. You need to be able to take the symptoms, look through the available literature for more information, gauge the worth/applicability/validity of this new information, and apply some reccomendation to help your patient. Research is the same: you take some question nobody's looked at before, look through the literature to see what everyone else has done, critically evaluate your results in light of other experts, and come to a conclusion. The skills you gain in one transfers directly to the clinic. Your med school may give you some good experience, but you will never know every possible disorder that you will see ini clinic. Research skills give you the ability to rise to the challenge and learn for a lifetime.

 

[browniegirl86]

I understand why med schools want research (above posters have made good points about this).

If you're not looking forward to doing crappy bench research with no real rewards other than a possible boost in your application, I don't blame you. I just want to give my own experience with research to illustrate what one of the posters mentioned: there ARE research experiences that go beyond "lab rat."

My first research experience was 100% lab rat. I hated it. After 3 semesters (my initial commitment) I was out of there.

My second research experience was completely different. I got an internship through a collaboration between UT and the TX Department of Health, doing public health bacteriology. The difference was that I was expected to do it all myself, with an advisor available in case I got REALLY stuck. So I designed the protocol, carried out all the lab work, collected and analyzed data, and presented a paper to faculty and staff of the university and TDH. This was MUCH more rewarding, MUCH more fun, and was definitely the experience that all my interviewers asked about (nobody cared about the boring bench work).

So I guess the point of this post is that I agree with the OP, but I also think that doing research does not necessarily mean being a drone in a lab and running gels all day.

 

[Jaider]

There are a portion of undergrad research experiences that don't fall into this category, however, and instead involve more independence, thinking, and control over your projects. These are the types of research experiences that will hold the most weight in med school admissions

I agree. I went to a small private college with virtually no resources for research, but I was able to do an independent research project there that really caught the attention of the admissions committee. My project was totally unsophisticated-- it was no scientific breakthrough-- but my faculty interviewer (a researcher) told me that my experience was much more valuable than the typical "lab rat's" experience at a big research university because my project was completely independent: my hypothesis, my work, my conclusions.

Three cheers to the small private college with ample opportunities for those willing to develop them. 👍

 

[MN81]

Research = advancement of human knowledge in medicine

Advancement of human knowledge in medicine = good for society

👍

 

[inverse_scatter]

I'm probably a cynic but...

Undergrad research is no different than the requirement for volunteer experience and the ten quadrillion extracurriculars: Having it by no means proves that you are going to be a good physician, as it, by no means, proves that you really care about or believe in what you are doing.
It just proves that you are willing to do what you are told you have to do and jump through hoops to gain admission.

It's all about creating/selecting the perfect, subservient applicant who will grow into the perfect, subservient doctor, and who will never try to change the status quo -- and will never even question it.

Every professional school is the same way: The things you are required to do before you are allowed to join the ranks of a professional "elite" have very little to do with the skills required in that profession; and much more to do with adopting a certain ideology/paradigm.

I doubt anyone here will agree with me -- and I don't have the skills to successfully argue it out. So I'll leave it at that...

 

[dr.z]

Research = advancement of human knowledge in medicine

Advancement of human knowledge in medicine = good for society

👍

👍

 

[nikibean]

Because research is cool. 😎

Period.

(although I hate being a lab rat- something about the flourescent lights day in and day out...)

 

[DrBowtie]

If you do scut change labs...but that's easy for me to say since my lab just consists of a computer cluster.

 

[PariPari]

Why does being a "Lab rat" for a year or two consitute MD worthiness ?

Some of my friends doing reseach think of themselves as Nobel laureates of some sort. So bizarre, all you do is what they tell you to, no better than being someone's maid and not even getting paid for it !

Ur not a doctor, ur a scientist ! u don't help ppl, u isolate transgenic bacteria ! ahahha

Feel free to post !

After skimming i agree (i think) w/ what everyone else has said.

In SOME labs, the PI actually EXPECTS you to contribute at lab meetings, use your head as something other than a sunglass/hat holder & think analytically about problem solving (which believe it or not is an important skill for physicians) & be able to work w/ minimal supervision using expensive machines & not break them or blow ish up.
Now if you friends work in labs like that, then maybe their attitudes while not okay, can be tolerated, especially if they spend free time research/ doing lit reviews, but if not & all they do is wash dishes, then by all means laugh away.

 

[Hari Kari]

I'm probably a cynic but...

Undergrad research is no different than the requirement for volunteer experience and the ten quadrillion extracurriculars: Having it by no means proves that you are going to be a good physician, as it, by no means, proves that you really care about or believe in what you are doing.
It just proves that you are willing to do what you are told you have to do and jump through hoops to gain admission.

It's all about creating/selecting the perfect, subservient applicant who will grow into the perfect, subservient doctor, and who will never try to change the status quo -- and will never even question it.

Every professional school is the same way: The things you are required to do before you are allowed to join the ranks of a professional "elite" have very little to do with the skills required in that profession; and much more to do with adopting a certain ideology/paradigm.

I doubt anyone here will agree with me -- and I don't have the skills to successfully argue it out. So I'll leave it at that...

Probably one of the most astute observations that I've read yet on SDN. I'm even more impressed if you're under thirty.

 

[Scoot]

Probably one of the most astute observations that I've read yet on SDN. I'm even more impressed if you're under thirty.

I agree, this is a great post. Unfortunately just knowing this does not change anything-outsiders aren't capable of changing things like this. The trick is manage to keep your head while going through the motions and becoming and insider, at which time you actually CAN make a difference. I speak from experience when I say that this is next to impossible.