Explain to me this "dissertation" for PhD

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Wackie

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When someone goes for their PhD and says, "On (insert day), I go to defend my thesis", or "I'm giving my dissertation", I'll offer my best wishes. But I don't know what it is they're actually doing. I know they grumble about it and their eyes look as if they're about to confront a pack of wild animals. My impression is that they're going to speak to people, but what's it like really? What exactly is going on?

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It's essentially your final "exam" on whatever you've studied over the past 2, 3, 4, 7 or however many years. You have to "defend" your research and explain what you've done, your results, etc. That presentation usually takes about an hour (and is accompanied by a 20-50 page thesis-- a written form of everything you've done). After the oral part, there is a panel of questions from the advisory committee and whoever else is in attendance. As well as the presentation is solid and they are able to answer the questions well, they get their PhD.

Also, you can typically go an listen if you're interested in the subject or if it's a friend. Just ask beforehand in case they might feel uncomfortable with you there.
 
20-50 page thesis for a PhD? The introduction alone is usually 20-50 pages.
 
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20-50 page thesis for a PhD? The introduction alone is usually 20-50 pages.

Sorry, my friend just had his oral prelim (halfway to PhD) and that's what he needed.

In the past, friends have had a thesis anywhere from 90-160 pages, but it depends on the person, the advisor and the department as to what's required.
 
Sorry, my friend just had his oral prelim (halfway to PhD) and that's what he needed.

In the past, friends have had a thesis anywhere from 90-160 pages, but it depends on the person, the advisor and the department as to what's required.

QofQuimica who posts on here had a 160+ page dissertation last year.

That's a really small dissertation if that really is all that there is involved in your friend's dissertation.

I'm under the impression that they are almost like the lenth of a book.
 
Dissertation is the pain in the butt all of PhD student have to write. The funny part about dissertations is that nobody ever reads it again once it is written. It is not a peer reviewed journal article so people outside of your lab will not read it. I heard of some people actually just stapling their published journal articles and writting some intorduction and just submitting it as their thesis.
 
QofQuimica who posts on here had a 160+ page dissertation last year.

That's a really small dissertation if that really is all that there is involved in your friend's dissertation.

I'm under the impression that they are almost like the lenth of a book.
Mine was about 215 pages total in the end (including spectra), and probably about 175 pages of my actual work. ;)

OP, at the end of your PhD, you write up the work that you have done. This is your dissertation. Most programs require you to do enough work to publish three papers (well, that's what mine did, anyway :p ) The papers don't have to be actually published by the time you graduate, but you should be ready to at least submit them. (At the time I defended, I had one paper actually submitted, and I just got another published this month; god and my mentor only know when the last two will see the light of day. :laugh: ). The organization of the thesis depends on your project and your area. In chemistry, some people do one huge project (ex. synthesis of a natural product) that takes them the entire time they're in grad school, and they typically organize the thesis with, say, an intro chapter, a results/discussion chapter, a chemistry/experimental chapter, a spectra chapter, and a references chapter. The intro chapter covers previous work in the field, explains the rationale for doing the work, etc. I think that the others are more or less self-explanatory.

Since I did four unrelated projects, I had four chapters, one for each project. Within each chapter, I wrote a separate intro, results/discussion (chemistry), experimental section (described how I made each compound and gave the spectral data in paragraph form to "prove" that I had really made what I thought I had made), and references. At the end, I had an appendix with all of my NMR spectra for each novel compound that I had synthesized.

The defense is a separate thing. Basically, what you do is to give a formal research seminar that lasts about 40-45 minutes. Your major professor (PI) will be there, as will your examining committee. For a PhD candidate, most committees have from 4-6 people on them. The defense is also open to the public, and so your friends, family, and other interested people can attend. At the end of the seminar, you get questioned (oral examination) by the committee. The audience is often asked to leave while the committee examines you, although my defense chair did not make them leave. Basically the committee members can ask you questions ranging from generic subject questions (i.e., explain what an amino acid is) to questions pertaining to the methodology of your research (i.e., why didn't you try reaction X when reaction Y didn't work?) to larger philosophical questions about the significance of what you've done (i.e., what do you think was the most useful thing that came out of your research?). At the end of the defense, everyone gets sent out of the room, including the PhD candidate, so that the committee can discuss whether to pass you. People almost always pass though, because usually your mentor will refuse to let you defend if s/he thinks that you won't pass.

Since defenses are open to the public, you can attend one if you're curious. Next time you see a notice posted, feel free to go. FYI, they usually serve free food. :)
 
The pages also depend on the subject matter, and the nature of the research.
 
Nevermind. QofQimica summed that up quite nicely
 
Dissertation is the pain in the butt all of PhD student have to write. The funny part about dissertations is that nobody ever reads it again once it is written. It is not a peer reviewed journal article so people outside of your lab will not read it. I heard of some people actually just stapling their published journal articles and writting some intorduction and just submitting it as their thesis.

I just read one of those the other day...he had like 12 published articles for medical informatics and just kind of put a table of contents, an introduction and those in.
 
I just read one of those the other day...he had like 12 published articles for medical informatics and just kind of put a table of contents, an introduction and those in.
I wound up doing things the other way around....after I wrote my dissertation, I based my papers on the chapters. Same idea though. ;)
 
The pages also depend on the subject matter, and the nature of the research.
Exactly. Science theses tend to be shorter, social science and humanities dissertations tend to be longer. A friend of mine--an anthropologist--turned in a dissertation that was over 1000 pages. It's also much more frequent these days that social science and humanities dissertations get turned into books.

As for dissertations not being peer reviewed, essentially the PhD committee stands in as both mentors (if they're doing the job they're supposed to) and peer reviewers, although of course dissertations are not viewed in the same light as articles or books that have undergone actual peer review.

The tenor of the defense can vary dramatically. As Q of Q says, it's rare for someone to fail their defense, mainly because if the work is really that poor the committee members should never let it reach that point. However, one hears of rare cases where the candidate simply defies the advice of his/her committee or of defenses in which departmental politics or interpersonal animosity among committee members causes problems. Even in successful defenses, the candidate can get raked over the coals pretty good. One prof in my department was known first for being a really supportive mentor for his advisees, but also known for being downright savage during the defenses of the students he'd heretofore treated so well. His opening line was always "The term 'defense' implies an attack, so here goes..."
 
I wound up doing things the other way around....after I wrote my dissertation, I based my papers on the chapters. Same idea though. ;)

Ha!! I just remember when you used to post in one of the old long forgotten Random threads in MCAT forum and I just remember one day you being up to pg 159 and posting something like that. That's why I thought it was 160, but said 160+. That's crazy. Your dissertation sounds big enough to be a novel!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh;
 
Dissertation is the pain in the butt all of PhD student have to write. The funny part about dissertations is that nobody ever reads it again once it is written. It is not a peer reviewed journal article so people outside of your lab will not read it. I heard of some people actually just stapling their published journal articles and writting some intorduction and just submitting it as their thesis.


An interesting trivia - Norman Gevitz's book "The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America" that is often referenced in the pre-DO and the DO forums here ... started out as his PhD dissertation at the University of Chicago
 
My thesis for my masters degree was 65 pages. I'd really like to see someone get a PhD with a 20-page thesis...20 pages is barely enough for the title page and the references!
 
A woman from the Duquense University graduate program in philosophy got her Ph.D. with a 78 page disseration. Mine was 538. I was pissed.

Anyway, the defense, as others have said, basically is an oral defense of your work. It's a chance for your readers to grill you on pretty much anything they feel like questioning; in general, it takes about 2 hours (give or take). It's a source of fear and trepidation because your committee does not have to pass you; you get put into academic limbo until they feel you are defend.
 
I heard of some people actually just stapling their published journal articles and writting some intorduction and just submitting it as their thesis.
if only....
 
Dissertation is the pain in the butt all of PhD student have to write. The funny part about dissertations is that nobody ever reads it again once it is written. It is not a peer reviewed journal article so people outside of your lab will not read it. I heard of some people actually just stapling their published journal articles and writting some intorduction and just submitting it as their thesis.

Yeah, i thought this was pretty typica too. Each article you've published becomes a chapter, and you just have to mesh them together and make sure all the formatting works. The only new writing is the intro and the conclusion. I've also heard that defenses are more like a formality than an actual test. They may want you to tweak a couple things or do a few more small experiments, but if your PI says you're ready to go, then you're ready to go.
 
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