Explaining DO to family.

[acs3838]

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Hey all,

Before I started reading SDN forums I had never heard of DO school, although Im sure Ive been treated by a DO in the past and just never realized the difference. Point is, that I know now that a DO is just as much a physician as an MD, and my personal mindset really draws me to go the DO route.

So I have three questions...

First, Im having a REALLY hard time explaining the whole DO thing to my family members. My mom has also never heard of there being another type of medical school and my uncle that is a physician did not seem to have a very positive response to me making this decision. They see this as me kind of giving up, or settling. Did anybody deal with this? And if so, how? What do you suggest?

Also, Im in the process of shadowing a DO, and there seem to be VERY few, almost none at my local hospital. Also in the state it seems that most are private practice (which I am not really interested in pursuing) Is it because I live in Florida? Is the north more DO friendly?

And finally, a friend of mine found an article saying that the state limits the amount of positions that DO physicians have at hospitals. Could this be true? I know it has been asked often, AND PLEASE DO NOT GET ANGRY THAT I AM ASKING THIS but the fact that there are so little DOs at my local hospital makes me really question whether it is true that DO and MD have the same chances at hospital positions/salary?

Thank you so much in advance for your responses!

 

[Daedra22]

The low number of DO's is more a numbers thing than anything--there are not nearly as many DO's as MD's. Also, some hospitals list DO's as MD's anyway. The south is not so bad for DO's... in Texas, we have a lot of them because of TCOM.

I had the issue explaining things to my family, because honestly, they didn't even know what an MD was (they knew physicians had degrees, but they knew nothing about medical education). Rather than trying to explain it myself, I emailed or printed out this page for them-- http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis . I also showed them pictures of the medical school I was going to, and showed them on the computer the things that I was going to get to do. It worked out pretty well. Also, at the end of the post in my signature link (DO vs MD), I have a list of a few very successful DO's, if you need more data to present. 🙂

 

[mechanictodr]

I told them I would be applying to osteopathic schools and they said, "Oh, for being a bone doc?" I just said, "Yup." and left it at that. I was actually more supprised and glad that they knew that osteo and bone were related. 🙂

No further explaining needed.

 

[rawman]

I had a similar issue as well. My family wasn't aware there were physicians other than the ones that held MD's. So naturally, they were concerned when I had applied to both MD and DO schools. However, after showing them the following site, in addition to the physician directories of local hospitals that listed the existence of DO's, they were convinced.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Afterwards, my parents started doing their own research on DO's and one of my aunts changed her PCP to a DO since she was unhappy with her current doctor and was planning on making a change anyway. So now all my family's worries are gone, and they're fully supportive of me (not that they weren't to begin with).

So I would say that if explaining it to them isn't so effective, show them some legit websites that could help support you. Of course they could always try switching docs (though in my aunt's case, it was just good timing). Good luck.

 

[Squeal]

I had a similar issue as well. My family wasn't aware there were physicians other than the ones that held MD's. So naturally, they were concerned when I had applied to both MD and DO schools. However, after showing them the following site, in addition to the physician directories of local hospitals that listed the existence of DO's, they were convinced.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Afterwards, my parents started doing their own research on DO's and one of my aunts changed her PCP to a DO since she was unhappy with her current doctor and was planning on making a change anyway. So now all my family's worries are gone, and they're fully supportive of me (not that they weren't to begin with).

So I would say that if explaining it to them isn't so effective, show them some legit websites that could help support you. Of course they could always try switching docs (though in my aunt's case, it was just good timing). Good luck.

I had an aunt who was sure you couldn't practice medicine unless you were "a real doctor like House, because he's an MD."
🙄

 

[acs3838]

I told them I would be applying to osteopathic schools and they said, "Oh, for being a bone doc?" I just said, "Yup." and left it at that. I was actually more supprised and glad that they knew that osteo and bone were related. 🙂

No further explaining needed.

This made me LOL. Too funny.

Thank you so much for all of your responses, It is nice to know Im not the only one who has/has had this issue.

Keep em' coming!

 

[HoboCommander]

Most parents don't even know what an MD is.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

This made me LOL. Too funny.

Thank you so much for all of your responses, It is nice to know Im not the only one who has/has had this issue.

Keep em' coming!

Yeah, for sure. When I found out about the DO route, I told my parents about it. My dad didn't know anyhting about it, but he didnt care so long as I was certain it was a path to become a physician. My mom was a little iffy about the DO route at first, asking our PCP about it. Of course, our PCP said that DO's have a real hard time finding work where I live. All I had to do was show her that a major hospital down the street had a few DO's working the ED. Of course, that doesn't stop her from mixing up DO and OD every now and then .

 

[NSU14]

To answer your second question... there are two DO schools in Florida! Based on that fact FL has potential to have a high density of DOs and also to accept DOs very well. You could shadow the private practice DO but also shadow an MD in a hospital. There really isn't much difference in the way a DO and MD practice.

 

[Cheshyre]

First, Im having a REALLY hard time explaining the whole DO thing to my family members... Did anybody deal with this? And if so, how? What do you suggest?

If you read "DOs in America" by Gevitz, you'll find that DOs, preDOs, and the spouses/children of DOs have been dealing with this since 1865. For many people in the general population, MD vs. DO is akin to (in what's sure to become a mainstay reference in this forum) Harvard MS vs. Willy Jim's Lightning Quick Bone Settin' Skool.

I actually had a very easy time switching to DO since my family doc is a DO. My parents (and me, actually) are very happy with his work.

DOs are big in certain states. For example, Michigan has a pretty good amount. Florida has two DO schools though (right? I'm not sure because I didn't apply to either), so perhaps Florida will have a good number soon.

Do the legwork. Read books about DOs, scour the net for DO stuff, shadow a DO if you can. In terms of employment, DOs and MDs are about the same. In regards to why you haven't seen any DOs - only around 11% (didn't fact check) of the physicians in the US are DOs, which can pretty much be attributed to historical issues. Regarding specialization and openings in residencies - you will get violently differing opinions regarding this on SDN. Some people will say that DOs have a difficult time getting into MD residencies / top specialties (like derm) due to MD bias, some will say it's due to lower matriculation scores of DO students, some will say that it's because more DO students than MD students come in to medical school intending to practice primary care or some other generalist sort of specialty. I personally think all three are involved in some way. In any case, there are DOs in every specialty. If you put in the work, I'm sure you'll be fine. It's not like you're looking at a Caribbean school where 3% of the kids actually become doctors.

Uh... regarding schools.. I'm not going to name any out loud, but when you start applying to DO schools, do the research on those too. Some of them have rather poor reputations on SDN.

 

[missDO]

... only around 11% (didn't fact check) of the physicians in the US are DOs, which can pretty much be attributed to historical issues

But more so...the mere fact that: there are 130 accredited MD schools and 28 accredited DO medical schools. The majority of the explanation is a simple statistical factor. There are 11 graduated DO students for every 50 MD graduates. While the stat to support your 11% of current practicing doctors would be 89% (more MDs than DOs), it is still sitting at 78%. Not far off--still a comparable, sufficient stat.

 

[Cheshyre]

While the stat to support your 11% of current practicing doctors would be 89% (more MDs than DOs), it is still sitting at 78%. Not far off--still a comparable, sufficient stat.

Yeah, I'm at work right now. Just threw out a number that I remembered without checking on it.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

When I explain the BS/DO program I'm in people always ask "What is a DO?". My canned response is " A DO has the same privileges and practice rights and can be found in any specialty from family practice to neurosurgery. The only difference is that DOs are trained in manual medicine as well." It's not "settling", when you become a DO. The misconception that there is some great gulf between MDs and DOs is largely confined to the realm of premeds and people with no experience in health care. The fact that your mother has never heard of osteopathic medicine means nothing. The fact that your uncle doesn't seem "positive" doesn't really matter. My father is an MD, his comment is that an MD or DO serves the same goal, letting you practice medicine. Florida has a huge number of DOs. There are two osteopathic medical schools in the state, both of which have excellent reputations NSU-COM and LECOM-B. NSU has affiliates throughout the state, there are DOs in Florida. As to your third comment MDs and DOs get paid the same and hiring is based on clinical accumen, interviews and LORs not the letters after your name. Secondly most people don't work for hospitals only a few groups do: some surgeons (especially gen surg), hospitalists and EM tend to work for hospitals. However many physicians work in group or solo practices.

 

[salazaar]

Haha! I have had to explain this to people more times than I can count. my canned response goes like this:
"DOs and MDs are basically the same thing. both can specialize in whatever they want: MDs can do neurosurgery, DOs can do neurosurgery. the difference is that DOs are taught to approach their patients more holistically and learn extra clinical modalities called osteopathic manipulation at the expense of really learning how to research."
inevitably they ask "osteopathic manipulation?"
to this, I reply with an example they can usually relate to,
"In lots of ways OMM is like chiropractic medicine, the difference is that Chiropractors use high velocity high amplitude treatments. Chiropractors treatment is like that move from James Bond where he sneaks behind an anonymous henchmen and wrenches their neck to kill them. High amplitude, the large movement to the side. High velocity the lightning speed at which the attack was performed. Osteopaths take a more conservative approach called High velocity Low amplitude, where they still employ quick movements but much less extreme displacement to fine tune the body to health. Osteopathic manipulation is just one extra tool in the DO toolbox with which to treat patients."
usually that pretty much covers it.

 

[antapolar]

yeah i think the best way to convince your parents is probably taking them to hospitals and meeting these DO physician themselves. Show and discuss with them articles, stats, and any information you can find regarding the DO school. My parents was very uneasy about this DO route at first too since they work in hospital primarily with MDs. However, after I took them through the whole curriculum and showing them some match list, they were fine with it.

Or...to most other ppls when I'm sick and tired of explaining the long explanation above. I would agree the best way is to leave it at "its a bone doctor" lol...

 

[p30doc]

It is not because you are in Florida, according to the AOA there were in 2008 4600 DOs in FL. Which is 7.2% of the total DO population.

 

[The Poet Sings]

the nice quick and simple answer i've been able to come up with is that they can do everything you think of when you hear the word doctor, but they also learn something extra that is like a cross between chiropractic and massage therapy. i figure most people have an idea of what those two fields entail, and having been a patient to both and a witness to omm, it sounds pretty accurate to me.

 

[DocEspana]

yea. following up on what others said. DO's make up 11% of the physician population. (i did fact check that number. the 22% vs 11% thing is prob cause a number of MD schools have extremely large classes, while only NYCOM and *maybe* PCOM have large classes for DO) And you may not have any idea who is a DO or MD unless you take time to look at their credentials, which people very rarely do. I'm surprised you haven't run into any in FL, but I know that certain states (NY, MI, MA, PA) have an abundance of DOs. Exact percentages in those states, IDK. I have to assume, from both personal experience in three of the four states listed and my own assumption, that you stay in the state you were trained in more often than not and so those states have high DO densities compared to other areas. In the long run though there are very few states where DOs are not around at 10 or more % of the population. LA and CA come to mind as two places that are very hard for some unknown reason for a DO to be found in. They are there, they are just at much lower percentages than elsewhere.

now what do you say? Everyone else said it right. I'd use their lines. What I would add, and this is mostly for smart asses who think they know everything, is on academics. Pre-allos will give you a hard time sometimes because they think they know everything and assume that a slightly lowered GPA and MCAT score means that its an inferior degree. It really isnt true at all. You need to remind them that, in the grand scheme of things, DO is a newer degree and standards have to be raised incrementally from 75 years ago being a manipulative art primarily (which didnt demand the same highly academic focus), to nowadays being MDs with additional training. All these schools are raising the standards every year and should be exactly the same ina few more years. And that slightly looser standards are STILL incredibly high and they allow people into what is, in general, considered a more rigourous interview process. DO schools want you to be there to be a DO not just to be a MD who happened to get a 28 on the MCATs

 

[Bacchus]

Find a doctor your family uses that is a DO. Bring up that doctor. That should cover it. A PCP in our family and a neurologist for my family are both DOs. That's all I had to say.

 

[Guinea]

Most parents don't even know what an MD is.

riiight.... 🙄

 

[Doc1988]

I had an aunt who was sure you couldn't practice medicine unless you were "a real doctor like House, because he's an MD."
🙄

hahahahaha. oh hospital television shows thank you for educating our masses.

 

[Sir Buckethead]

"the practice rights are identical, the initials and some aspects of the overarching educational philosophy are different."

All you need to say. I havent even started applying anywhere yet but this usually contains all your average lay person wants to know.

 

[Morsetlis]

hahahahaha. oh hospital television shows thank you for educating our masses.

I swear House is an ID specialist.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I swear House is an ID specialist.

And a hematologist/oncologist, and a pathologist, and an endocrinologist, and a....

 

[Daedra22]

And a hematologist/oncologist, and a pathologist, and an endocrinologist, and a....

They said once that he's triple-board certified... one of them was nephrology >.> . Oh television.

 

[DocHomer]

It still amazes me how uninformed many people are about DO's. I have a friend who has been a physical therapist for the last seven years, and he even asked me if DO's are competent physicians. I was shocked. How could he not know after being in the health care field for that long?

I spoke to a doctor recently who insisted that I attend an allopathic medical school because "...it's something you just have to do." But then he got into this whole thing about how even major institutions like Sloan-Kettering are introducing alternative medicine. (He was trying to make me fell better for going the DO route.) I wanted to clue him in on the fact that osteopathic medicine is not "alternative medicine".

Just go with one of the answers above. If your family still has issues with it, then just tell them that they were right all along and you're learning how to treat people with magic rocks. Then just move on.

 

[The Poet Sings]

It still amazes me how uninformed many people are about DO's. I have a friend who has been a physical therapist for the last seven years, and he even asked me if DO's are competent physicians. I was shocked. How could he not know after being in the health care field for that long?

I spoke to a doctor recently who insisted that I attend an allopathic medical school because "...it's something you just have to do." But then he got into this whole thing about how even major institutions like Sloan-Kettering are introducing alternative medicine. (He was trying to make me fell better for going the DO route.) I wanted to clue him in on the fact that osteopathic medicine is not "alternative medicine".

Just go with one of the answers above. If your family still has issues with it, then just tell them that they were right all along and you're learning how to treat people with magic rocks. Then just move on.

sign me up for some magic rocks! no but seriously i swear my mom thinks there are herbs involved.

 

[ScottMontgomery]

DOs are big in certain states. For example, Michigan has a pretty good amount. Florida has two DO schools though (right? I'm not sure because I didn't apply to either), so perhaps Florida will have a good number soon.

.

I agree to this big time. IN fact, a hospital in which my mom, and several friends work at was once titled Osteopathic in the hospital name.

Now Garden City Hospital was one Garden City Osteopathic Hospital, the change took over with the revamping and construction of the building, I am not sure the politics behind the name change.

That hospital employs over 80% DO I would guess. In almost every specialty and sub-specialty.


Along with alot of the hospitals in the area.

 

[JaggerPlate]

the character is a maverick medical genius, a diagnostician with specializations in infectious diseases and nephrology. He works as the Chief of Diagnostic Medicine at the fictional Princeton-Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, and there heads a team of diagnosticians.

One of my favorite SDN things is when House is thrown around like he's a real human. It cracks me up. I stumbled upon a heated discussion one time about 'what if House was a DO' and I swear half way through some big response by me, I deleted it and simply stated ...

HE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cheshyre]

HE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!!!!!!!!!!!

MERE MORTALS DO NOT TALK ABOUT HOUSE THAT WAY!
You apologize now for your sins.


if house was real, he'd figure out a way to abuse OMM... in a manner involving an 'ischial tuberosity spread.'

 

[ScottMontgomery]

the character is a maverick medical genius, a diagnostician with specializations in infectious diseases and nephrology. He works as the Chief of Diagnostic Medicine at the fictional Princeton-Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, and there heads a team of diagnosticians.

One of my favorite SDN things is when House is thrown around like he's a real human. It cracks me up. I stumbled upon a heated discussion one time about 'what if House was a DO' and I swear half way through some big response by me, I deleted it and simply stated ...

HE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets put it this way, I read somewhere, that maybe a DR of his intelligence could make 400K+ year.

Rather than going to school for 8 years then serving your residency and so on. Spending countless hours of learning and hardwork to make a possible 400K in that field.

You could become an actor like Hugh Laurie and make an estimated $450K per EPISODE!

Look folks, its cheaper to become and actor and play a Dr than to actually become a Dr!

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/04/dr-house-salary-480000-usd-per-episode.html


Sorry for Hijacking the thread! But I do love the show!