Explanation Of URM

[cdeane16]

I see a lot of people saying that you have a lot better of a chance getting in if you are a URM. What is a URM exactly? Furthermore, why does this make such a difference. Med School is supposed to be competitive. So does this basically state that schools are competitive towards certain types of people?

explain if you could

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[linguini]

I see a lot of people saying that you have a lot better of a chance getting in if you are a URM. What is a URM exactly? Furthermore, why does this make such a difference. Med School is supposed to be competitive. So does this basically state that schools are competitive towards certain types of people?

explain if you could

URM = "under represented in medicine"
http://www.aamc.org/meded/urm/start.htm

As for the underlined comment, I wouldn't go there.

 

[MedicFL]

I think it is a perfectly fair place to go, NO ONE should be given preference if everyone wants equal rights then let them be equal. No special treatment for anyone of any race. If you read there def it has everything to do with race, a poor white male would not according to there current definition be able to claim URM status. Before everyone jumps down my throat I was born in South Africa, I am not being a racist either I am just pointing out the flaw in the whole URM status.

 

[TupacalipseT96]

I think it is a perfectly fair place to go, NO ONE should be given preference if everyone wants equal rights then let them be equal. No special treatment for anyone of any race.

It's not about whether it's a 'fair' or 'unfair' place to go. He said he wouldn't go there because he knows, as do I, that you cannot have that conversation on an anonymous internet forum populated by anxious and insecure applicants awaiting their own fate in medicine.

It's been tried many times. It doesn't work.
So I wouldn't go there.

 

[tabrazinski]

I see a lot of people saying that you have a lot better of a chance getting in if you are a URM. What is a URM exactly? Furthermore, why does this make such a difference. Med School is supposed to be competitive. So does this basically state that schools are competitive towards certain types of people?

explain if you could

it's also not just race. you can also be under represented in terms of socioeconomic status, which i think, in a way, is almost more important. whether you come from a family of white doctors or a family of black doctors... you still have a huge advantage over someone who's parents did not even graduate from high school, let alone college. controversial subject, i know. just throwing it out there.

 

[Quix]

This is a pre-emptive keep it civil - not that I think anything has been done wrong, but this is one of those topics that can *easily* get ugly very quickly.

 

[cdeane16]

This is a pre-emptive keep it civil - not that I think anything has been done wrong, but this is one of those topics that can *easily* get ugly very quickly.

Sorry If i came off with my subject in the wrong tone. I meant in no way to strike an offense. I was just Looking to become more educated on what the basis of the abbreviation actually was

 

[njbmd]

Sorry If i came off with my subject in the wrong tone. I meant in no way to strike an offense. I was just Looking to become more educated on what the basis of the abbreviation actually was

Touchy subject this time of year. Neurotic group of folks hanging around these parts. As others have said, these things get ugly fast. It can be an "education" for you in some respects.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

I just wrote a research paper on this. If you like, I can give you some resourceful links via PM.

 

[cdeane16]

I just wrote a research paper on this. If you like, I can give you some resourceful links via PM.

that would be sweet

 

[Adam Smasher]

I've glanced at the data on acceptances, and it's not convincing to me that URMs are as heavily favored as everyone suspects. No school will accept you if you're not qualified.

Graduate and Law school on the other hand...

 

[m ilk]

Tell me your thoughts:

I grew up poor (mother used welfare at times), father not really in the picture. Mother did eventually get her GED and an associates, father never finished high school. When it came time to apply to med school, I did not claim that I was an economic minority b/c I felt like it would just be making excuses.

Should I have claimed it? People told me that i should have emphasized my struggle more. But, I don't think application season is time for a pity party --whatever your "underrepresented" status is (race, $$).

 

[DrMattOglesby]

Keep in mind...this is just a small debate inside the larger issue of Affirmative Action.

 

[linguini]

Tell me your thoughts:

I grew up poor (mother used welfare at times), father not really in the picture. Mother did eventually get her GED and an associates, father never finished high school. When it came time to apply to med school, I did not claim that I was an economic minority b/c I felt like it would just be making excuses.

Should I have claimed it? People told me that i should have emphasized my struggle more. But, I don't think application season is time for a pity party --whatever your "underrepresented" status is (race, $$).

I think it's a personal choice to include something like that in your application. I would not jump to the conclusion that every person who includes it is seeking pity from adcoms. Some wish to include it because it was a personal or family struggle that shaped their personality/experiences/beliefs in a significant way.

 

[Nanon]

I think it's a personal choice to include something like that in your application. I would not jump to the conclusion that every person who includes it is seeking pity from adcoms. Some wish to include it because it was a personal or family struggle that shaped their personality/experiences/beliefs in a significant way.

Exactly - and sometimes it's just an additional way to explain your path. Some of the adcom folks I talked to about this said that even when you don't use the designation, if there's something in your application that tips them off that you might have been disadvantaged, they'll put you in that group anyway. I was disadvantaged and happily checked off that box. I don't use it to get pity or make excuses for my failures, but to show the adcoms how far I've come, which is as much a selling point as my volunteer and work experience.

 

[JTubule1386]

I also agree with it being a personal choice. I am a disadvantaged URM, but I still managed to become a competitive applicant DESPITE this status. This is why I put it in my application. I would not have changed my childhood for anything, and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way rather they were the rich majority or the poor minority. And I do disagree that people include it in their application to draw pity from the adcom. Many disadvantaged people who have gain valuable lessons from being disadvantaged actually pity the people who have a so called advantage over them sometimes. The bottom line is different upbringing provide different lessons in life. No two people have the exact same story, and if you ask me my story (which is what adcoms do), I will tell it to you MY story. I cannot tell you anyone else's story because I do not know their stories. I am proud of where I come from and where I am today. Many URMs that get accepted are getting accepted partly because of their story, which is the reason why a lot of non-URMs are getting accepted also. I hate the fact that people will think that I got accepted into med school because I am a disadvantaged URM. I worked just as hard as everyone else to become competitve in this process, and although I feel I could have done better, I'm sure a lot of us feel this way. However, I am still competitve with my numbers, and I did not just sit back and rely on this status to carry me through this process. People will think what they want to think, but hey, what can you do...

 

[Narmerguy]

Try searching affirmative action or any combination of words synonymous with this and just let it blow your mind. Those threads get heated fast and they can drag on for hundreds of responses...it usually leaves one dissapointed with the general population in some way or another no matter which side one favors.

 

[njbmd]

Tell me your thoughts:

I grew up poor (mother used welfare at times), father not really in the picture. Mother did eventually get her GED and an associates, father never finished high school. When it came time to apply to med school, I did not claim that I was an economic minority b/c I felt like it would just be making excuses.

Should I have claimed it? People told me that i should have emphasized my struggle more. But, I don't think application season is time for a pity party --whatever your "underrepresented" status is (race, $$).

Why not use this as an answer to a question on a secondary application or as an answer to a question during interview. If this is a significant shaper of your outlook and personal goals, then it is good to put this in your personal statement. If it's too late, then use it on any secondary that you can and definitely mention it during interview. If it shaped your life then it's not an "excuse".

 

[HeatherMD]

I'm pretty sure I'm the only me.

How many Heathers are in medical school? I feel Heathers are under-represented.

 

[kalia]

Hi ppl,

In US news, they list the number of minorities accepted. Does the def'n of "minorities" consist of only URM individuals or do they group other ethnicities who are not considered URM but who are, compared to the general pop'n in the States, less represented?

In Canada, we have something similar to URM, but it's mainly for Aboriginals I think.

 

[chemolupusMD]

I'm pretty sure I'm the only me.

How many Heathers are in medical school? I feel Heathers are under-represented.

I know 2 that are in med school, in the same class

 

[geenelln]

Some schools have different standards for what they view to be URMs. There is also a hierarchy of "underrepresentedness". As in, as much as people lump all the URMs together, African-americans are reviewed in a different light than Hispanics, who are review from a different angle than Native Americans. To be honest, they do lower the threshold for admissions for certain groups and the extent is different for each URM group, but these students may also bring other qualities to the table. It's good for the diversity of a class and good for a school's general reputation to show they value that quality.
Socioeconomic statuses are treated similarly. When reading an app, these students also get extra stickers or are considered in a different light than people that had many opportunities in life. Again, the extent varies for each case.

The general rule is that it's good to be different.

 

[HeatherMD]

I know 2 that are in med school, in the same class

 

[AZFutureDoc]

Its just reverse racism towards people like myself, white males. Fact: The average African American matriculant admitted into med school every year has a lower mean MCAT than than the average White rejected applicant. Race should not make a poor candidate for admission better, or a poor candidate worse. If I were any other race with my application, I wouldn't even be worried about acceptances.

Why in all **** we even disclose race on our apps is a mystery to me. I'm sick of the AAMC thinking that only black doctors can treat black patients, only [blank] doctors can treat [blank patients] etc...

If they're worried they won't have enough doctors to take care of America's black population in the future, why don't they realize that we're not racists, and that we won't turn everyone else but out race down at the door.

 

[Corvus Riley]

Its just reverse racism towards people like myself, white males.

You....You seriously believe that? Have it tough because you're white? Sounds like insecurity to me

 

[HeatherMD]

It's not insecurity, he has a valid point. The concept is absolutely racist, and it's completely contradictory to its cause of equalizing the races.

So long as America maintains that we must put the white people in this category and the black people in another and the hispanics in another and so on, racism will always exists.

How can we expect equality if we continue to treat races unequally?

 

[MrAgreeable]

Oh, boy, here we go (above three posts^^^)

The OP just wanted to know what a URM is, and I believe that was done.

If you feel disadvantaged as a non-URM, too bad. Suck it up big boy. Other person, please refrain from the "YOU THINK!!" cliche, you insult the intelligence of the people here if you have to point out how ridiculous something is with a trite expression from a 70's socially aware sit-com.

A URM is what it is, it applies to some, not all, la-de-da, spoon-fork, who really cares who is and who isn't a URM?

I'm black, your white, it's a green transvestite, who cares? Why are people so sensative to things like URM? There are things people should rightfully be sensative about but not URM status on a medical school apllication or what some bitter person says on SDN. (This applies to the latest posts, all of them, including 'Mr You Think You have it tough')

 

[Corvus Riley]

It's not insecurity, he has a valid point. The concept is absolutely racist, and it's completely contradictory to its cause of equalizing the races.

So long as America maintains that we must put the white people in this category and the black people in another and the hispanics in another and so on, racism will always exists.

How can we expect equality if we continue to treat races unequally?

I was responding to the idea that the previous poster was proposing in which whites are apparently....discriminated against...during med school decisions. How many white med students are there?

And as for the affirmative action issue, yes the system is not doing what it should, and yes race is still an issue even today, especially when it comes to quotas, etc. But there are people who have overcome more than others and deserve the same chance as those who have had it a little easier. That's all I'm saying.

I quote a prominent philosopher when I say: "We don't become equal by ignoring our differences."

 

[Corvus Riley]

Oh, boy, here we go (above three posts^^^)

The OP just wanted to know what a URM is, and I believe that was done.

If you feel disadvantaged as a non-URM, too bad. Suck it up big boy. Other person, please refrain from the "YOU THINK!!" cliche, you insult the intelligence of the people here if you have to point out how ridiculous something is with a trite expression from a 70's socially aware sit-com.

A URM is what it is, it applies to some, not all, la-de-da, spoon-fork, who really cares who is and who isn't a URM?

I'm black, your white, it's a green transvestite, who cares? Why are people so sensative to things like URM? There are things people should rightfully be sensative about but not URM status on a medical school apllication or what some bitter person says on SDN. (This applies to the latest posts, all of them, including 'Mr You Think You have it tough')

I wouldn't say I'm bitter, I'm just posing the idea as ridiculous, that's all.

 

[MrAgreeable]

I was responding to the idea that the previous poster was proposing in which whites are apparently....discriminated against...during med school decisions. How many white med students are there?

And as for the affirmative action issue, yes the system is not doing what it should, and yes race is still an issue even today, especially when it comes to quotas, etc. But there are people who have overcome more than others and deserve the same chance as those who have had it a little easier. That's all I'm saying.

I quote a prominent philosopher when I say: "We don't become equal by ignoring our differences."

Oh my God in Boise, Idaho! We know that is a rediculous statement. Thank you for pointing that out. Guess what, the number of races in medical school correlates pretty closely to the number of people of that race that applied being that we all get a very similar undergraduate education. Who would have thought of that?

 

[HeatherMD]

I still marvel at how big the race issue in America must be in order for it to be "easier" to be born white as opposed to indian/asian/hispanic/whatever.

 

[MrAgreeable]

I wouldn't say I'm bitter, I'm just posing the idea as ridiculous, that's all.

I didn't say you were bitter, my friend, the person you responded to is. You aren't bitter at all, you are just adding fuel to a fire you don't need to. In all of my white maleness I was able to pick up on the fact that the post you responded to was utterly *****ic.

 

[Corvus Riley]

Oh my God in Boise, Idaho! We know that is a rediculous statement. Thank you for pointing that out. Guess what, the number of races in medical school correlates pretty closely to the number of people of that race that applied being that we all get a very similar undergraduate education. Who would have thought of that?

Who would have thought of that indeed.

 

[Ahmed786]

Yesterday we voted into office the first African-American president of the United States. He himself says race (or sexual orientation or gender for that matter in his speech) is not an issue and the polls proved it. If the polls are reflective of the American people why is it that we still allow racial boundaries to exist in medicine?

I understand what you are all saying by suck it up yes this is a stressful time for everyone applying to medical school and worrying about applying to medical school it wont make an immediate impact on us but that still does not make it right (in my opinion anyways) and we still can discuss our viewpoint.

 

[MrAgreeable]

I still marvel at how big the race issue in America must be in order for it to be "easier" to be born white as opposed to indian/asian/hispanic/whatever.

Statistically, it is. But for those who don't fit the mean range there are things like economic URM's. Don't be so sensative. I'm a white male, I woke up this morning, I have my health and my family and my friends. Life sucks sometimes, life sucks more for others sometimes regardless of race.

This argument makes my head hurt.

 

[HeatherMD]

Gobama!

 

[HeatherMD]

PS. I'm not white.

in case that matters here.

 

[MrAgreeable]

Who would have thought of that indeed.

I'm sorry I think you keep taking me out of context:

- We know AZdoc's comment was stupid and ill-advised. We all do. The numbers accepted fit those that applied. Don't fuel the fire of bitter people.

 

[Corvus Riley]

PS. I'm not white.

in case that matters here.

We don't see race here. We're all just brothers and sisters frolicking in the sunlight.

 

[dothesafetydanc]

I think issue is best examined from the viewpoint of the potential consequence.

The average African American matriculant admitted into med school every year has a lower mean MCAT than than the average White rejected applicant. Race should not make a poor candidate for admission better, or a poor candidate worse. If I were any other race with my application, I wouldn't even be worried about acceptances.

Let's just assume this is true. Then, let's assume that the admissions process was corrected so that race was not considered.

What would be the consequence? Less black doctors I'd imagine. Let this apply to all other positions that require a higher degree of education (Lawyers, Professors, etc.)

What is the consequence? How will societal perception of black people change if there are a very few members in the professional realm?

 

[HeatherMD]

I think issue is best examined from the viewpoint of the potential consequence.

Let's just assume this is true. Then, let's assume that the admissions process was corrected so that race was not considered.

What would be the consequence? Less black doctors I'd imagine. Let this apply to all other positions that require a higher degree of education (Lawyers, Professors, etc.)

What is the consequence? How will societal perception of black people change if there are a very few members in the professional realm?

Isn't anyone else worried about societal perception of black doctors if there's many of them and we KNOW they didn't have to match the stats of the white doctor next door to get into med school?

Why isn't anyone concerned about THAT?

 

[HeatherMD]

We don't see race here. We're all just brothers and sisters frolicking in the sunlight.

just thought it was an interesting twist on my viewpoint on "minorities" and racism against white people.

 

[Corvus Riley]

http://buthereweare.blogspot.com/2008/11/this-isnt-way-to-equality-damnit.html

end of discussion

 

[MrAgreeable]

It all comes out in the wash. Be easy my little borthers and sisters.

(And because of how rediculous this has become I have to put a disclaimer on what I just said by pointing out that "my little brothers [and sisters]" is a Clockwork Orange reference)

 

[MDHopeful08]

the poor OP lol! If they only knew that the concept of URM is the kryptonite for all SDN members. ....must...insert...2 cents.....

 

[MrAgreeable]

the poor OP lol! If they only knew that the concept of URM is the kryptonite for all SDN members. ....must...insert...2 cents.....

LOL the truth!

 

[Ahmed786]

the poor OP lol! If they only knew that the concept of URM is the kryptonite for all SDN members. ....must...insert...2 cents.....

If ur not a URM and you dont have at least a 37 on your MCAT and a 3.9 GPA and been to Africa at least once to save the children you should just go make money somewhere else... like ibanking

 

[Raryn]

I think issue is best examined from the viewpoint of the potential consequence.

Let's just assume this is true. Then, let's assume that the admissions process was corrected so that race was not considered.

What would be the consequence? Less black doctors I'd imagine. Let this apply to all other positions that require a higher degree of education (Lawyers, Professors, etc.)

What is the consequence? How will societal perception of black people change if there are a very few members in the professional realm?

It is true, numbers straight from the AAMC:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/mcatgparaceeth07.htm (matriculant data in the second chart)

Note: I'm not interpreting the data either way. I'm tired of these discussions at this point, because neither side will ever convince the other of their reasoning.

 

[ineedausername]

unintentional irony. URM gets accepted into Med school and is looked down upon by opponents of affirmative action.

or urm is not accepted and gets looked down upon by elitist med students.

guess what, if your GPA is the foundation of your self esteem. I.e. I am better than the 'others'. then you have a lot to learn. good luck, gpa is ultimately irrelevant.

 

[dothesafetydanc]

Isn't anyone else worried about societal perception of black doctors if there's many of them and we KNOW they didn't have to match the stats of the white doctor next door to get into med school?

Why isn't anyone concerned about THAT?

Well certainly there are people who very concerned about that. Bill Cosby for one. Pud-ding.

I think the idea is that if there isn't a concerted push to put URMs in certain positions and portray them in a positive light, then it will never happen because of the insular nature of certain institutions. And while Aff. Action might be unfair, it will only be temporary until minorities are represented respective to their population percentage makeup. After these crutches are removed, hopefully, minorities will be as equally competitive in terms of application stats.