Extreme GPA/DAT?

[jigabodo]

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For the most part, from what I've observed from this forum I would think that a typical "competitive" predent should have a GPA of 3.5 and 19-20 on the DAT.

However, please consider the following 2 scenarios and tell me what you think:

1. If student A has an excellent GPA (above 3.9), what do you guys think would be the minimum DAT needed to gain acceptance?

2. If student B has an excellent DAT score (24+), what do you guys think would be the minumum GPA needed for acceptance?

Assume that they both applied to 10+ schools.

 

[barami0113]

1. Minimum 17.
If I were one of adcom people, I would seriously question the validity of high GPA when the applicant can't even get 17 on DAT. Most likely it will turn out that the applicant took most of classes at CC or went to a college that no one ever heard of. I personally think 3.9/16 is worse than 3.5/18.

2. Minimum 3.0.

 

[Meatwad]

2. Minimum 3.0.
I think average B shows that the applicant is not a lazy as*.

Speaking of which, you are talking out of yours and insulting those who have overcome amazing hurdles. Look back through Yah-E's posts for an example; and remember he's not the only one.

I think he got in with less than a 2.5 average. However, he took extra undergrad classes and took the first year courses that medical students take and got a good GPA (3.3+, I believe). His DAT was strong, as well.

Non-trads sometimes have low GPAs as well, for whatever reason that prevented them from performing well years back. Maybe you should dismount that high horse and not assume all people with a 2.98 are lazy.

 

[barami0113]

I wrote those answers without regarding any extraordinary case because there are few. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

If I add more to my earlier comment on general cases,
I know many people who maintain above 3.7 while working almost full-time and doing research. I believe if a person can score 24+ on DAT (which indicates intelligence) he or she should be able to maintain at least 3.0 gpa.

 

[armorshell]

I had a 3.0 gpa while I was applying and a 25 AA pretty much got me in everywhere.

 

[Meatwad]

I had a 3.0 gpa while I was applying and a 25 AA pretty much got me in everywhere.

They probably looked like James Earl Jones does in your avatar when they saw a 25 AA.

 

[jigabodo]

They probably looked like James Earl Jones does in your avatar when they saw a 25 AA.

Haha. 👍 Thats pretty damn funny.

I'd like to think that the minimum DAT to go with high GPA would be 17, and the minimum GPA to go with high DAT to be 2.7.

 

[TheWiredNerv]

They probably looked like James Earl Jones does in your avatar when they saw a 25 AA.

LOL!

 

[Meatwad]

LOL!

You in Suffolk or Nassau?

 

[TheWiredNerv]

Suffolk. I live in Huntington Station

 

[Meatwad]

Suffolk. I live in Huntington Station

Cool, Brentwood here. You commute to a school around here?

 

[TheWiredNerv]

Commute to adelphi university in garden city.

Sorry for thread hijack. I'm under the impression that adcoms weigh DAT scores very heavily. They get more excited over a 25+ score than they do over a 3.9+ GPA. I think for the first extreme, the high GPA needs to have at least a 18+, preferably a 19+. The low extreme, the student will probably have to score that 24-25+ to really grab adcom's attention.

 

[Montserrat]

Commute to adelphi university in garden city.

Sorry for thread hijack. I'm under the impression that adcoms weigh DAT scores very heavily. They get more excited over a 25+ score than they do over a 3.9+ GPA. I think for the first extreme, the high GPA needs to have at least a 18+, preferably a 19+. The low extreme, the student will probably have to score that 24-25+ to really grab adcom's attention.

Yeah... it's why I'm taking the DAT over again. With a lower GPA, my 20/21/18 doesn't cut it. I'll need something much higher to give the adcoms something to work with.

 

[armorshell]

They probably looked like James Earl Jones does in your avatar when they saw a 25 AA.

I know I'll catch some poop for this, but I was pretty pissed about the 27's for ochem and gchem since I know I got every single question correct. It just happened that the 100% for my test was 27's, which pretty much ruled me out for getting a 26AA.

But hey, I'm not complaining. That DAT score got me further than I could have imagined, and the two neurons I rubbed together to spit that score out are working full time now 🙂

 

[jigabodo]

Yeah... it's why I'm taking the DAT over again. With a lower GPA, my 20/21/18 doesn't cut it. I'll need something much higher to give the adcoms something to work with.

I actually think you have a very, very impressive resume judging from your predent profile. Your EC is beyond excellent, along with a solid DAT score. Although GPA appears to be your only downfall, you do have a 3.8 on posbac.

If you dont mind me asking, is it your second time around? I really canot imagine you applying with those stats last cycle and end up getting rejected.

 

[sacjumpman]

I actually think you have a very, very impressive resume judging from your predent profile. Your EC is beyond excellent, along with a solid DAT score. Although GPA appears to be your only downfall, you do have a 3.8 on posbac.

If you dont mind me asking, is it your second time around? I really canot imagine you applying with those stats last cycle and end up getting rejected.

I agree. 8.5 years guitar and sponsored rock climber is a bad ass. Your numbers are solid too, I think you'd be golden.

 

[Montserrat]

I actually think you have a very, very impressive resume judging from your predent profile. Your EC is beyond excellent, along with a solid DAT score. Although GPA appears to be your only downfall, you do have a 3.8 on posbac.

If you dont mind me asking, is it your second time around? I really canot imagine you applying with those stats last cycle and end up getting rejected.

No, I don't mind at all. This isn't my second time around. The DAT that I took this past July was the first exam I took since finishing the post-bacc program at Penn a year prior. I am sure I can do better, and am confident a higher score can help in formula valuations for candidate selection.

Not to sound self deprecating, but I think guys around my own age would find what I have done/can do to be badass. But someone far removed from my own worldview might not see it the same way - for example, older adcom members and dentists I have worked with. From speaking with them, they don't seem quite so interested. All they might see is a wirey 130 pound guy with big forearms that carries around a trad rack in a beat up toyota. Not exactly the professional profile I would want to convey, but it's part of who I am.

Numbers are not the only thing they see, but they're very important to them. I don't have much hope for a program to shove aside their cutoffs just because I might be an interesting person to them, so that's why I feel a strong need to retake the DAT and am getting my LOR's ready to apply to a master's program as well. If this year doesn't pan out, hopefully the infusion of higher DAT scores and some grad school coursework will help me cross the hurdle into the promised land of interviews (if I have to reapply for next year.)

 

[litldime]

No, I don't mind at all. This isn't my second time around. The DAT that I took this past July was the first exam I took since finishing the post-bacc program at Penn a year prior. I am sure I can do better, and am confident a higher score can help in formula valuations for candidate selection.

Not to sound self deprecating, but I think guys around my own age would find what I have done/can do to be badass. But someone far removed from my own worldview might not see it the same way - for example, older adcom members and dentists I have worked with. From speaking with them, they don't seem quite so interested. All they might see is a wirey 130 pound guy with big forearms that carries around a trad rack in a beat up toyota. Not exactly the professional profile I would want to convey, but it's part of who I am.

Numbers are not the only thing they see, but they're very important to them. I don't have much hope for a program to shove aside their cutoffs just because I might be an interesting person to them, so that's why I feel a strong need to retake the DAT and am getting my LOR's ready to apply to a master's program as well. If this year doesn't pan out, hopefully the infusion of higher DAT scores and some grad school coursework will help me cross the hurdle into the promised land of interviews (if I have to reapply for next year.)

i like your attitude 👍
-ld

 

[jasminelime]

My friend from berkeley had an 2.6 GPA and still got in somewhere...

 

[jigabodo]

My friend from berkeley had an 2.6 GPA and still got in somewhere...

Did your friend have an outrageous DAT?

 

[bruinpredent]

Did your friend have an outrageous DAT?

$500,000 check from daddy perhaps?

 

[jigabodo]

$500,000 check from daddy perhaps?

I've heard this so many times, but do people really do that? Whats more intriguing is how do they do it? Say, instead of writing like a 70 dollars app. fee, do you just write like a 500,000 dollar check instead? 😱 Or do you call the school and say that you would like to make very "special" donation?

 

[barami0113]

I've heard this so many times, but do people really do that? Whats more intriguing is how do they do it? Say, instead of writing like a 70 dollars app. fee, do you just write like a 500,000 dollar check instead? 😱 Or do you call the school and say that you would like to make very "special" donation?

I heard the dean of school is always looking for money since part of their job is to get as much donation as possible. I can only guess that someone can arrange a meeting with the dean and then...😎

 

[jigabodo]

I heard the dean of school is always looking for money since part of their job is to get as much donation as possible. I can only guess that someone can arrange a meeting with the dean and then...😎

I see.

But even if the kid got in by doing that, wouldnt he or she have a very hard time adjusting to the competitive dental curriculum?

I guess I just cant imagine somebody got in that way with a 2.5 GPA and 15 on DAT keeping up with others just fine. I mean, I dont think its impossible, but its definitely gonna be tough. Plus, you wouldnt be able to do that when you are taking the boards. So essentially, doesnt it do more harm than good?

 

[barami0113]

I see.

But even if the kid got in by doing that, wouldnt he or she have a very time adjusting to the competitive dental curriculum?

I guess I just cant imagine somebody got in that way with a 2.5 GPA and 15 on DAT keeping up with others just fine. I mean, I dont think its impossible, but its definitely gonna be tough. Plus, you wouldnt be able to do that when you are taking the boards. So essentially, doesnt it do more harm than good?

Yes. It might be tough for them. But, some people would choose to get in first and suffer instead of not getting in at all.

 

[Dentisting]

I see.

But even if the kid got in by doing that, wouldnt he or she have a very hard time adjusting to the competitive dental curriculum?

I guess I just cant imagine somebody got in that way with a 2.5 GPA and 15 on DAT keeping up with others just fine. I mean, I dont think its impossible, but its definitely gonna be tough. Plus, you wouldnt be able to do that when you are taking the boards. So essentially, doesnt it do more harm than good?

Well... I think it does more harm for the student than the school. Basically the school is guaranteed the kids tuition (plus more), so if he were to fail, and drop out, it would free up more space for them, and they wouldnt have really lost anything... except a spot for a more qualified student, but I think they make a cost/benefit analysis, and realized that they would be better off with the money.

 

[predentist]

What do you'll think about a Science 3.6 gpa, overall 3.53 and DAT AA = 17 🙁 Any chances?

 

[jigabodo]

What do you'll think about a Science 3.6 gpa, overall 3.53 and DAT AA = 17 🙁 Any chances?

You might just have a chance at your state schools...

Its gonna be tough if you are not a minority, but its still possible imo, if rest of your app. is strong.

 

[predentist]

I am asian...i guess there is more competition among asian than any other group right?? thanx for your reply

 

[Montserrat]

I am asian...i guess there is more competition among asian than any other group right?? thanx for your reply

Oh geez... Asians don't compete against each other any more than white people compete against each other. From what I've seen, asians are generally treated as "honorary white folk."

 

[jigabodo]

Oh geez... Asians don't compete against each other any more than white people compete against each other. From what I've seen, asians are generally treated as "honorary white folk."

Thats a funny term.

 

[DentistRob]

It'd probably also depend on if that was a science gpa or just a normal gpa. If the person had a 3.9 but was a dance major or going to a community college, that 3.9 would be a little less impressive than if that person were studying biophysics at a 4-year university.

 

[lindell12a]

I'd like to think the guy with the low GPA and high DAT would get in...as it appears students with low GPAs and high DATs are the norm around here...

 

[Meatwad]

I'd like to think the guy with the low GPA and high DAT would get in...as it appears students with low GPAs and high DATs are the norm around here...

I believe some schools consider the DAT very heavily (UoP, Columbia, etc.) I wouldn't bother applying to Stony Brook, Nebraska, or other schools that have higher average GPAs than many med schools (3.7+) no matter what DAT score you have. Stony Brook, for example, has a class size of 50. If they accept even one person with a 3.0, it totally ruins their average incoming class stats.

 

[blooh]

Oh geez... Asians don't compete against each other any more than white people compete against each other. From what I've seen, asians are generally treated as "honorary white folk."

wonder why asians arent considered minorities... i mean there are more african americans in the us than they are asians, so why are they the minorities and asians not?

honestly no offense to african americans, but i dont understand why they have to get special treatment while regular non minority kids gotta work twice as hard just to stay in the game while minorities can just slack get a 3.0 descent dat score and still get in
boggles my mind sometimes
- Danny

 

[Montserrat]

wonder why asians arent considered minorities... i mean there are more african americans in the us than they are asians, so why are they the minorities and asians not?

honestly no offense to african americans, but i dont understand why they have to get special treatment while regular non minority kids gotta work twice as hard just to stay in the game while minorities can just slack get a 3.0 descent dat score and still get in
boggles my mind sometimes
- Danny

I'm asian, and I don't mind it. If a minority takes advantage of it, good for them. If they decide to take their schooling and go on to perform community work to serve the underserved in their respective communities, doubly good for them. Take advantage of any opportunity that's granted in your lifetime - they don't come often.

 

[sacjumpman]

I'm asian, and I don't mind it. If a minority takes advantage of it, good for them. If they decide to take their schooling and go on to perform community work to serve the underserved in their respective communities, doubly good for them. Take advantage of any opportunity that's granted in your lifetime - they don't come often.

I like this guy 🙂 Great attitude

 

[Meatwad]

wonder why asians arent considered minorities... i mean there are more african americans in the us than they are asians, so why are they the minorities and asians not?

honestly no offense to african americans, but i dont understand why they have to get special treatment while regular non minority kids gotta work twice as hard just to stay in the game while minorities can just slack get a 3.0 descent dat score and still get in
boggles my mind sometimes
- Danny

They are minorities in this country, but not in health professions. If you constitute 5% of the population of a country, but 25% of a profession, for example, why should you be given special status as a minority? If anything, asians are overrepresented in healthcare. Black students are considered underrepresented because they make up a sizeable percentage of the population, but a very small percentage of healthcare professions.

 

[TheWiredNerv]

I believe some schools consider the DAT very heavily (UoP, Columbia, etc.) I wouldn't bother applying to Stony Brook, Nebraska, or other schools that have higher average GPAs than many med schools (3.7+) no matter what DAT score you have. Stony Brook, for example, has a class size of 50. If they accept even one person with a 3.0, it totally ruins their average incoming class stats.

Thought stony brook had a class size of 35?

 

[blooh]

I'm asian, and I don't mind it. If a minority takes advantage of it, good for them. If they decide to take their schooling and go on to perform community work to serve the underserved in their respective communities, doubly good for them. Take advantage of any opportunity that's granted in your lifetime - they don't come often.

well said....

carpe diem
- Danny

 

[backtoschool2]

Does anyone know if Dental schools look at Masters Degrees and their accompanying GPAs as a positive? Also, what would be the minimum DAT score that would give me a good chance of admission with the following GPAs and degrees?

Undergrad GPA of 3.2/Science GPA of 3.1 (Degree in Biology)
Masters GPA of 3.5 (MBA)

I am also a non-traditional student with very good work experience.

Any help is greatly appreciated! 🙂

 

[Meatwad]

Thought stony brook had a class size of 35?

Ah, yes, you're correct. This actually reinforces my point, thanks

 

[ToothPrincess]

wonder why asians arent considered minorities... i mean there are more african americans in the us than they are asians, so why are they the minorities and asians not?

honestly no offense to african americans, but i dont understand why they have to get special treatment while regular non minority kids gotta work twice as hard just to stay in the game while minorities can just slack get a 3.0 descent dat score and still get in
boggles my mind sometimes
- Danny

I cant really defend why schools dont think that asians are minorities at all, and as a black person, I really dont understand why everyone on these forums say that we get special treatment. I am not going to lie, I have a 3.9 science GPA and a 3.3 regular GPA, I was an aerospace engineering major and basically every class that I took was factored into my science GPA (excluding freshman year english, math, ect.) I have been taking many practice DATs and I am working my butt off to get into school, so I really dont appriciate people lumping all of us into one group. Usually those who are let in do not succeed and get into the residency of choice, but that goes for those same people who get into school based on their connections (white students usually)... I just dont think that it is fair that people harp on this issue of blacks getting an easy in, when that may be true of some people, but not all... Def not me!

 

[Montserrat]

I cant really defend why schools dont think that asians are minorities at all, and as a black person, I really dont understand why everyone on these forums say that we get special treatment. I am not going to lie, I have a 3.9 science GPA and a 3.3 regular GPA, I was an aerospace engineering major and basically every class that I took was factored into my science GPA (excluding freshman year english, math, ect.) I have been taking many practice DATs and I am working my butt off to get into school, so I really dont appriciate people lumping all of us into one group. Usually those who are let in do not succeed and get into the residency of choice, but that goes for those same people who get into school based on their connections (white students usually)... I just dont think that it is fair that people harp on this issue of blacks getting an easy in, when that may be true of some people, but not all... Def not me!

No need to defend a school's treatment of Asians as non minorities - it makes perfect sense. Asians are grossly overrepresented in all facets of health care despite being a minority within the total population. It's a numbers game, and nothing I am offended by.

As for why black students are granted special treatment when applying to dental school at many institutions ? They are. I can call a spade a spade, without insulting or catering to microagressions from any minority group. I can see why you'd be insulted by the generalization that somehow, special treatment infers being less qualified, because it's not true. It sucks, but it's something you'll probably have to deal a lot with later, just as non-minority students have to suck it up now, that the color of someone's skin may help dictate the ease of their admittance.

 

[Meatwad]

No need to defend a school's treatment of Asians as non minorities - it makes perfect sense. Asians are grossly overrepresented in all facets of health care despite being a minority within the total population. It's a numbers game, and nothing I am offended by.

As for why black students are granted special treatment when applying to dental school at many institutions ? They are. I can call a spade a spade, without insulting or catering to microagressions from any minority group. I can see why you'd be insulted by the generalization that somehow, special treatment infers being less qualified, because it's not true. It sucks, but it's something you'll probably have to deal a lot with later, just as non-minority students have to suck it up now, that the color of someone's skin may help dictate the ease of their admittance.

Bingo. To say that black or hispanic students do not get preferential treatment (i.e. admitted with lower scores) then you are being naive. Like Montserrat said, just because black/hispanic students are allowed in with lower scores in no way means that all black or hispanic dental students have low scores. There are black students with 4.0s getting in, and black students with sub-3.0s getting in. The same can be said for Asians and whites; 4.0s getting in and sub-3.0s getting in. What you have to realize, here, is that the odds of you getting in with that sub-3.0 GPA greatly increases if you are a black/hispanic student as opposed to a white or Asian student.

Surely you can't deny this; Meharry and Hoaward have the lowest GPA averages of any school, I believe. This is not an implication that black/hispanic students in general have low grades. What it does mean is that if you are black/hispanic and have low grades, there is a school that is willing to accept you, regardless of some past indiscretions as to your schoolwork. I believe this should clarify the system and how it does not assume or imply anything about black or hispanic students as a group.