Extremely Competitive Year for DPT

[Member60439]

One of my thoughts on the interview process is that it is not only a chance for the admissions committee to see who you are, but a chance for you to see the school and program to determine if it would be a good fit... especially if you are going to spend a lot of money on tuition and perhaps moving costs. It makes sense to check it out and get a feel for things. Don't people make campus visits prior to starting undergrad as well?

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[kvgymnast]

It makes sense to check it out and get a feel for things. Don't people make campus visits prior to starting undergrad as well?

Exactly. I would feel weird accepting admission to a school that I've never even seen in person. I also liked that on my interviews I got a chance to meet the staff. I loved the staff at one school and then another I got weird vibes from. I would have never known that if I didn't interview and it definitely played a role into deciding which program to attend.

I also didn't apply to any school I wouldn't be willing to travel to, if I got offered an interview. I only applied to schools that were close enough to drive to (4-5 hours max) since then I would not have to pay for a flight/hotel/etc.

Yes, interviews make everyone nervous. But this is for a doctoral level program and they want people who can articulate themselves and function well under pressure.

 

[Azimuthal]

Do you also suit up, Azimuthal?

Two button, not three. It accentuates my skinny tie.

 

[okramango]

One of my thoughts on the interview process is that it is not only a chance for the admissions committee to see who you are, but a chance for you to see the school and program to determine if it would be a good fit... especially if you are going to spend a lot of money on tuition and perhaps moving costs. It makes sense to check it out and get a feel for things. Don't people make campus visits prior to starting undergrad as well?

I agree with this. One nice thing about TWU is that, even though they don't interview, they do offer all the other things that interview day offers. Last weekend I attended a program at their Dallas campus where I was able to meet current students, alumni, faculty, and staff. We toured the facilities and had various presentations about the school, curriculum, financial aid, etc. I can't imagine accepting to attend a school that I haven't visited, so I appreciated that they offered this.

 

[HughLee]

This is great information and very much appreciated.
Does your school give any considerstion to LOR, Essays, Volunteer/Observation or are only GPA and Interview considered ?

Our criteria for an interview is mostly GPA based. LORs, felony convictions, and school conduct violations are reviewed to see if there is anything we should be concerned about. We are mostly concerned with actions that could potentially impact your ability to be licensed. We are not concerned if you were on academic probation your freshman year. Your personal essay is provided to your interview team. Your volunteer/observation hours and extracurricular activities should also have an impact on your interview.

We recommend actually coming to our school for an interview. We do offer phone interviews since it can be expensive and inconvenient to fly here on short notice, but in general I would recommend against this. It helps to get feedback during the interview, for both the interviewee and the interviewers. It is also a chance to learn more about the school, the students and the faculty. Interviewees have lunch with current students, and have the opportunity for a campus tour.

In the past, we would review all of the applications in the beginning of February, and then send out invitations for interviews which were usually in mid March. This cycle, we started sending out invitations in mid-December so that applicants could make travel plans earlier. As more applications came in through the end of January, we sent out more invitations to qualified applicants.

With respect to interviews, most interviewers will expect you to be somewhat nervous. So if you are a little nervous, do not worry about it. Most interviewers are looking for a reason to accept you, not a reason to reject you.

If you have the opportunity to participate in a mock interview, do so. If you are still in college, they may have people in Career services who could help.

Take your time to answer questions. Taking a couple of seconds to think about the question and organize your thoughts should not hurt. Know something about the specific PT program, and their specific mission and values. As someone said on another thread here, be specific. If you answer in generalities, it will be assumed that you only have a general knowledge of PT. Rather than "I like working with old people", try "I am volunteering as an aide at the local nursing home, and I really enjoy it because ........." "I really want to be a PT because PTs are able to ......., and I saw this when I worked with Bob the PT at ... when he ....."

Have some questions to ask your interviewers at the end. If you had some and they were answered, say that. "I was unclear about how students are assigned to clinical sites, but I spoke with several students at lunch and they explained your policy very well", etc.

 

[Ngozi Onyema]

The long waiting periods to hear back from schools is attributed to the massive number of applicants this cycle right? because for some schools I'm waiting months to hear back after I've applied and schools that I've added months after I E-Submitted it's still taking weeks if not a couple months for a response, although a couple of schools responded within days after I applied but most schools are taking months to reply.

 

[Big Stuff]

I have a question for the admissions folks who are posting here- I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but do schools evaluate overall GPA while taking into account, say, upper level courses/last 60 credits, and how do you weight overall GPA versus pre-requisite GPA?

 

[ptisfun2]

I have a question for the admissions folks who are posting here- I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but do schools evaluate overall GPA while taking into account, say, upper level courses/last 60 credits, and how do you weight overall GPA versus pre-requisite GPA?

100% depends on the school. There is no set standard for admission.

 

[HughLee]

100% depends on the school. There is no set standard for admission.

I agree with ptisfun2. Each school has their own way. Our overall GPA minimum is 2.75, and that is a cut-off. We do not differentiate the last 60 credits or so. We do currently weigh our prerequisites for later courses. Most applicants will have to take biology and general psychology in order to take Anatomy and Physiology and the upper level psychology classes, but we currently do not consider their grade in these classes.

There is an effort among PT programs to standardize entry requirements.The recommended pre-requisites are 2 semesters of biology, 2 semesters of anatomy and physiology, 2 semesters of chemistry, 2 semesters of physics, 1 semester of psychology, and 1 semester of statistics. We are currently evaluating our pre-requisites in light of these recommendations.

 

[bythebay]

Standardized pre reqs would be awesome!!! Full support that move for future applicants. Can you also standardize PTCAS deadlines???

 

[HughLee]

100% depends on the school. There is no set standard for admission.

Standardized pre reqs would be awesome!!! Full support that move for future applicants. Can you also standardize PTCAS deadlines???

Standardized PTCAS deadlines may be harder because schools start at different times.

We are considering adding two semesters of biology and a statistics course to our pre-req GPA, still requiring developmental psychology and abnormal psychology for the pre-req GPA, and dropping our requirement for ethics. Still needs lots of approvals from higher up, and not sure when it would take effect.

 

[ptisfun2]

There is an effort among PT programs to standardize entry requirements.The recommended pre-requisites are 2 semesters of biology, 2 semesters of anatomy and physiology, 2 semesters of chemistry, 2 semesters of physics, 1 semester of psychology, and 1 semester of statistics. We are currently evaluating our pre-requisites in light of these recommendations.

I thought the standard pre reqs were 2 psychology or was it decided just one upper level. I thought it was more than just Psych 101?

 

[HughLee]

I thought the standard pre reqs were 2 psychology or was it decided just one upper level. I thought it was more than just Psych 101?

The list had one psychology course. It was not clear if it was any psych class or an upper level class. Our faculty discussed it, and decided to stay with requiring both developmental psych and abnormal psych. Most applicants would also have to take general psych, since it is probably required as a pre-requisite for the upper level psych classes, but we do not consider the grade in general psych.

 

[mitherapy]

I completely agree w/you.
My #1 choice turned me down because all they are looking at to determine admission is GPA and gre. They don't have interviews and there is no special essay and try also don't require observation hours.

I was rejected 2 years from this University& I'm an alumni too. I'd say my GPA is not too bad, around 3.2-3.3 depending on ptcas/pre req...

But here's what upsets me the most. I have thousands of observation hours in over 3 different practice settings. And to know others who got into my top school w/ no observation hours, no people skills, and no real idea of the profession upsets me & is driving me insane.

Here's me venting now:
Anybody can be a robot & exclusively focus on academics only....making 4.0s throughout their undergrad.

But what about the students who held full time jobs, worked all undergrad in multiple PT settings, volunteer many hours for various community programs, participated in research and explored/shadowed all fields of healthcare? No chance. I'm furious w/ all the instate DPT programs & it worries me to hear when someone w/ a business degree (or any random degree), with no experience gets into a program simply because they have a 4.0.


It's been long day & I felt this needed to be said...
😒

 

[mitherapy]

My #1 choice turned me down because all they are looking at to determine admission is GPA and gre. They don't have interviews and there is no special essay and try also don't require observation hours.

I was rejected 2 years from this University& I'm an alumni too. I'd say my GPA is not too bad, around 3.2-3.3 depending on ptcas/pre req...

But here's what upsets me the most. I have thousands of observation hours in over 3 different practice settings. And to know others who got into my top school w/ no observation hours, no people skills, and no real idea of the profession upsets me & is driving me insane.

Here's me venting now:
Anybody can be a robot & exclusively focus on academics only....making 4.0s throughout their undergrad.

But what about the students who held full time jobs, worked all undergrad in multiple PT settings, volunteer many hours for various community programs, participated in research and explored/shadowed all fields of healthcare? No chance. I'm furious w/ all the instate DPT programs & it worries me to hear when someone w/ a business degree (or any random degree), with no experience gets into a program simply because they have a 4.0.

😒

 

[Azimuthal]

My #1 choice turned me down because all they are looking at to determine admission is GPA and gre. They don't have interviews and there is no special essay and try also don't require observation hours.

I was rejected 2 years from this University& I'm an alumni too. I'd say my GPA is not too bad, around 3.2-3.3 depending on ptcas/pre req...

But here's what upsets me the most. I have thousands of observation hours in over 3 different practice settings. And to know others who got into my top school w/ no observation hours, no people skills, and no real idea of the profession upsets me & is driving me insane.

Here's me venting now:
Anybody can be a robot & exclusively focus on academics only....making 4.0s throughout their undergrad.

But what about the students who held full time jobs, worked all undergrad in multiple PT settings, volunteer many hours for various community programs, participated in research and explored/shadowed all fields of healthcare? No chance. I'm furious w/ all the instate DPT programs & it worries me to hear when someone w/ a business degree (or any random degree), with no experience gets into a program simply because they have a 4.0.

I have a business degree [no experience outside of observations] and got into PT school. Hope I didn't upset you too much.

Did you contact the program and speak to someone? What are your GRE scores? If you knew that it was the only criteria they looked at, did you apply elsewhere? What program is this, if I may ask?

 

[Nailey13]

If you realized that such an emphasis would be placed on these elements of your application, why did you spend an undue amount of time in the additional areas (enough to compromise your scholastic performance)?

There are plenty of people who come from unrelated backgrounds, get good grades and scores and have accumulated hours in a variety of settings. These people do very well for themselves in DPT programs. And while the scales may be weighed in favor of superior scholastic achievement as opposed to experiential background, it has been said time and time again that the best predictor of graduate performance (hell, even the ability to successfully complete a graduate program) is one's previous academic/test-taking performance. Programs have an obligation to ensure that their admitted students do well in their program, graduate, and pass the NPTE (preferably the first time). This is better predicted by admitting academically stellar applicants.

 

[Nailey13]

What's more, clinical skills can be taught/improved. The same can't always be said for academic talent. But even if a program can't transform an insensitive high achiever into a perfect empath, I'd rather have the skilled clinician who is rough around the edges than a less than knowledgeable caring individual. Get me better, healthcare professional! I don't have to be coddled to get there.

 

[ptisfun2]

My #1 choice turned me down because all they are looking at to determine admission is GPA and gre. They don't have interviews and there is no special essay and try also don't require observation hours.

I was rejected 2 years from this University& I'm an alumni too. I'd say my GPA is not too bad, around 3.2-3.3 depending on ptcas/pre req...

But here's what upsets me the most. I have thousands of observation hours in over 3 different practice settings. And to know others who got into my top school w/ no observation hours, no people skills, and no real idea of the profession upsets me & is driving me insane.

Here's me venting now:
Anybody can be a robot & exclusively focus on academics only....making 4.0s throughout their undergrad.

But what about the students who held full time jobs, worked all undergrad in multiple PT settings, volunteer many hours for various community programs, participated in research and explored/shadowed all fields of healthcare? No chance. I'm furious w/ all the instate DPT programs & it worries me to hear when someone w/ a business degree (or any random degree), with no experience gets into a program simply because they have a 4.0.

😒

I am going to challenge you a bit with this post. PTs often talk about evidence based practitioners (I do not disagree). And many applicants and PTs on the board write about the importance of incorporating research into clinical care. Don't you think the same holds true for admissions to PT school?
The only predictor of success on the NPTE is verbal GRE score (and it was not a great predictor, but the only one that was any predictor at all). This was a paper published in PTJ; you can find the reference on PubMed. Multiple studies have published that undergrad GPA is the best predictor of success in graduate school across field.
Univ do not get NPTE scores for individual students; just pass rates for the Univ. So we look at the results on our Comprehensive Examination, which is given at the end of the 2nd year. We have shown significant association with CPI (assessment tool for clinical education), PT school GPA, and undergrad GPA (we did not look at GRE scores yet).
The other part of evidence based practice that has a corollary with this is clinical experience. In my time as a faculty member, the ONLY benefit I have seen with students who worked as a tech is maybe easier communication with patients. Often, you have to 'unteach' habits like 'always using x exercise with a patient after a TKA' and focus them on the CLINICAL DECISION MAKING.' This clinical decision making is the bulk of PT school. I can teach anyone how to manipulation a spine; WHY you are doing it makes you a PT.
I have a colleague who says PTs need to start practicing from the head up instead of the head down. Not to say skills are not important, but clinical decision making is paramount.
I agree with you a well rounded student in ideal for classroom harmony and diversity in the profession.
And if you think an applicant with a Business degree would not be useful in health care circa 2013.....well again, I would challenge you on that.
I mean no disrespect with this post. We got over 1,100 applicants this year and I am sure we missed some very good students based on our admissions criteria. But we have to come up with something, and we chose to let the evidence guide us.

 

[mitherapy]

The school I am talking about is Oakland University. I had my heart set on this school because this is where I did my undergraduate degree and I am already very involved in their program (chair member of pre-pt club, volunteer as a patient for the dpt students when needed, involved in fundraising for their program's relay for life..etc) And I have already asked for feedback on their decision, but I have received no response on this request. Apparently, they are either too busy or don't care.

Call me a more non traditional student, but I did not do so well my freshman year, which was almost 7 years ago. I was clueless on what profession to go into and on top of that I needed to work full time so that I could afford a car, books and other living expenses (I don't have rich parents unfortunately so all costs of college were up to me.) So to the question on why I didn't put a large emphasis on my academics, there is your answer. Once I knew PT was what I wanted I cracked down and made major improvements.

It is bittersweet because by working full time I was able to gain experience in various healthcare settings and observe pretty much every profession. (worked as part time medical assistant, nursing assistant, out-patient physical therapy, nursing home, along with my full time position in an out-patient rehab office.

I am also very active in community involvement, I participated heavily in the Pre-PT club and organized all their events and fundraisers, also was a volunteer exercise instructor for a hospital's senior fit program, am a religious education instructor for special need teens, volunteer with my church and their homeless shelter programs and soup kitchen events on a monthly basis too.

But it is not like I did extremely bad, I graduated with a 3.3 GPA, pre-req GPA is about the same. GRE is 150v/150q, and writing was a 4, And by looking at what others say on this site, it seems I would appear to be competitive. In last 2 years of undergrad, I did not receive any grade lower than a 3.0, so I honestly thought that would be a major indicator that I would do just fine in a graduate program.

I applied to 11 different schools in state and out of state, and am wait listed at 3, (I did apply to some programs with realistic stats too..) but it just doesn't seem promising at this point and I am very disappointed and running low on money with this process.

I had a phone conference with a gvsu PT professor, who told me that if they were to over look my GPA, then my application would be very competitive. He also told me that gvsu is looking into changing how they filter their applicants, because right now they are only looking at the ptcas GPA.

What also frustrates me is that at each interview, I have been asking the students that take us on tours or whoever what the retention rate is and I have heard a few cases where students drop out "because they realized the profession isn't what they thought it out to be" which then makes me realize the value of knowing what this profession entails.

I hate to complain, but I am running low on patience...If this is not my year then I guess I'll just apply again next year.

 

[mitherapy]

So just so its clear, I partially agree with what your saying about academic stats being a good indicator of a student being able to pass their boards..etc.

But when I hear about retention rates due to students realizing the profession isn't for them, I think to myself wow, maybe programs should look more to accepting students with a more diverse background in healthcare because that might be a good indicator too. So I will still stand firm that experience is everything.

 

[nicolej5]

The school I am talking about is Oakland University. I had my heart set on this school because this is where I did my undergraduate degree and I am already very involved in their program (chair member of pre-pt club, volunteer as a patient for the dpt students when needed, involved in fundraising for their program's relay for life..etc) And I have already asked for feedback on their decision, but I have received no response on this request. Apparently, they are either too busy or don't care.

Call me a more non traditional student, but I did not do so well my freshman year, which was almost 7 years ago. I was clueless on what profession to go into and on top of that I needed to work full time so that I could afford a car, books and other living expenses (I don't have rich parents unfortunately so all costs of college were up to me.) So to the question on why I didn't put a large emphasis on my academics, there is your answer. Once I knew PT was what I wanted I cracked down and made major improvements.

It is bittersweet because by working full time I was able to gain experience in various healthcare settings and observe pretty much every profession. (worked as part time medical assistant, nursing assistant, out-patient physical therapy, nursing home, along with my full time position in an out-patient rehab office.

I am also very active in community involvement, I participated heavily in the Pre-PT club and organized all their events and fundraisers, also was a volunteer exercise instructor for a hospital's senior fit program, am a religious education instructor for special need teens, volunteer with my church and their homeless shelter programs and soup kitchen events on a monthly basis too.

But it is not like I did extremely bad, I graduated with a 3.3 GPA, pre-req GPA is about the same. GRE is 150v/150q, and writing was a 4, And by looking at what others say on this site, it seems I would appear to be competitive. In last 2 years of undergrad, I did not receive any grade lower than a 3.0, so I honestly thought that would be a major indicator that I would do just fine in a graduate program.

I applied to 11 different schools in state and out of state, and am wait listed at 3, (I did apply to some programs with realistic stats too..) but it just doesn't seem promising at this point and I am very disappointed and running low on money with this process.

I had a phone conference with a gvsu PT professor, who told me that if they were to over look my GPA, then my application would be very competitive. He also told me that gvsu is looking into changing how they filter their applicants, because right now they are only looking at the ptcas GPA.

What also frustrates me is that at each interview, I have been asking the students that take us on tours or whoever what the retention rate is and I have heard a few cases where students drop out "because they realized the profession isn't what they thought it out to be" which then makes me realize the value of knowing what this profession entails.

I hate to complain, but I am running low on patience...If this is not my year then I guess I'll just apply again next year.

I don't mean to be rude, but you sound very bitter and entitled. Just because you were very involved and did this and that doesn't mean that you automatically get accepted into your top choice school, even if it was your undergrad institution. And to say that because you "didn't have rich parents" and had to pay your way through school was the reason you didn't focus on academics....really?? Welcome to the real world, a lot of people pay their way through school and get great grades. Instead of saying why you think you should have gotten accepted or why you're mad and butt hurt at the school, figure out how to make your app better and come back stronger next year. Make it so they can't turn you down.

 

[b0realis]

Do you also suit up, Azimuthal?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rSNp72cX9.../H8t6Eg-jb_Y/s1600/suit-up-barney-stinson.jpg

 

[Azimuthal]

So just so its clear, I partially agree with what your saying about academic stats being a good indicator of a student being able to pass their boards..etc.

But when I hear about retention rates due to students realizing the profession isn't for them, I think to myself wow, maybe programs should look more to accepting students with a more diverse background in healthcare because that might be a good indicator too. So I will still stand firm that experience is everything.

When looking at your situation, I would focus on what is in/out of your control. Maybe consider retaking more classes, strengthening your essay and interviewing skills, etc. I wouldn't dwell on what has happened and focus more on what can happen. Wait listed at 3 programs? I'd say you have a great chance of starting a PT program this fall already. Good luck.

 

[situational]

What is stopping someone from realizing that in order to get a good overall and prerequisite GPA, he or she can just take an easier major during undergraduate years, and then take all the prerequisites at a community college? This way, they can ensure that they have a higher GPA compared to someone who may have taken a hard science and struggled more with the upper division classes. Do programs take this into consideration?

 

[bnwj89]

My one complaint about the application process:

I hate that your major and your university mean nothing in the application process.

I should have gone to some cheap community college and majored in some easy-peasy degree, ensuring a 4.0. Also, compared to my school, I have heard classes such as A&P, Bio, etc are WAY easier at the CC than at my University.

I realize that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and that there's no way for admissions committees to concretely say "this school is harder that this one" or "this major is harder than this one." But it just seems silly that if anyone asks me for advice about how to get into PT school, I'll tell them to do whatever it takes to get the highest grade possible, even if that means attending a non-prestigious school and majoring in something useless and easy.

 

[situational]

My one complaint about the application process:

I hate that your major and your university mean nothing in the application process.

I should have gone to some cheap community college and majored in some easy-peasy degree, ensuring a 4.0. Also, compared to my school, I have heard classes such as A&P, Bio, etc are WAY easier at the CC than at my University.

I realize that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and that there's no way for admissions committees to concretely say "this school is harder that this one" or "this major is harder than this one." But it just seems silly that if anyone asks me for advice about how to get into PT school, I'll tell them to do whatever it takes to get the highest grade possible, even if that means attending a non-prestigious school and majoring in something useless and easy.

I agree with this. I am trying to look forward and try to improve my mediocre numbers now and to improve my application in any way possible, but it pains me to know that this is the reality of the situation. I can't help but feel a little frustrated and resentful because of it.

 

[s402651]

My one complaint about the application process:

I hate that your major and your university mean nothing in the application process.

I should have gone to some cheap community college and majored in some easy-peasy degree, ensuring a 4.0. Also, compared to my school, I have heard classes such as A&P, Bio, etc are WAY easier at the CC than at my University.

I realize that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and that there's no way for admissions committees to concretely say "this school is harder that this one" or "this major is harder than this one." But it just seems silly that if anyone asks me for advice about how to get into PT school, I'll tell them to do whatever it takes to get the highest grade possible, even if that means attending a non-prestigious school and majoring in something useless and easy.

I agree and disagree. Being an education major myself from a 4 year institution has nothing to do with easy peasy degrees. I think that people should do what they are passionate about no matter what people consider "easy". However, I agree that there are some classes that may be easier at a community college than a 4 yr college. Also, just because an individual picks a seemingly easy major, that does not mean they don't have to show up to class and study to get an A.

Just my $.02

 

[Gopher1]

My one complaint about the application process:

I hate that your major and your university mean nothing in the application process.

I should have gone to some cheap community college and majored in some easy-peasy degree, ensuring a 4.0. Also, compared to my school, I have heard classes such as A&P, Bio, etc are WAY easier at the CC than at my University.

I realize that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and that there's no way for admissions committees to concretely say "this school is harder that this one" or "this major is harder than this one." But it just seems silly that if anyone asks me for advice about how to get into PT school, I'll tell them to do whatever it takes to get the highest grade possible, even if that means attending a non-prestigious school and majoring in something useless and easy.

I also agree with this statement, and I wish it wasn't the case. But this isn't limited to PT school. Most graduate programs look at overall GPA, and don't care too much if was from a CC, state school or Harvard. It is what it is...

 

[Azimuthal]

Picture it this way. The people with the "eazy peazy" degrees majored in what they were interested in. Usually, people excel at what they enjoy. Did you? Or they were mature enough to plan ahead and saw their end goal - grad school. Those who realized what they want later on, repeated courses [put in positive work], etc. If we are talking about qualities outside of GPA, that mentality shows something. Many who have gained entrance also have relatively decent to high pre-req GPAs which consist of the basic sciences. Many of those who were not offered seats may have lower GPAs in these same basic sciences, even though they majored in a hard science. Let's not kid ourselves. These basic courses are easy, whether taken at a CC or 4-year. If its made hard by the professor and not content, drop and take with another. I hate to keep throwing bad news your way but many professors teach at both. If you didn't do well, retake the course.

Also, what makes you feel so entitled? Because you have a degree in "warp core engineering"? I hate to break it down to you, but space travel is far from PT school. This is healthcare and I don't want unproven [hasn't shown indication of growth] C students working on people.

The take home message is to work hard, stop comparing yourself to others and make things happen.

 

[NeophyteParkour]

...I needed to work full time so that I could afford a car, books and other living expenses (I don't have rich parents unfortunately so all costs of college were up to me.) So to the question on why I didn't put a large emphasis on my academics, there is your answer.

I've heard this argument from family members, from friends, and from other students. They say the reason they couldn't focus more on school was because of work, and that they should be given a pass for that.
At least half of my undergraduate tuition (if not more) was fundly through grants and scholarships, which for the most part I qualified for because of my financial situation.
There are ways to fund an undergraduate education beyond just working all the time. I didn't have my parents paying for my education either.
For any other money you can just take out loans, like 90% of students do.
You are in school to learn, not to work some job you have no intentions of keeping.

I do agree with you however on the major, in some ways. I feel like PT school itself could devote more time to more topics if they didn't have to cater to people who don't have an exercise science/kinesiology background already. I know that different majors can bring different beneficial aspects to PT, but at the very least, I think more schools should have exercise physiology as a pre-req.

 

[pubicsymphysis]

Picture it this way. The people with the "eazy peazy" degrees majored in what they were interested in. Usually, people excel at what they enjoy. Did you? Or they were mature enough to plan ahead and saw their end goal - grad school. Those who realized what they want later on, repeated courses [put in positive work], etc. If we are talking about qualities outside of GPA, that mentality shows something. Many who have gained entrance also have relatively decent to high pre-req GPAs which consist of the basic sciences. Many of those who were not offered seats may have lower GPAs in these same basic sciences, even though they majored in a hard science. Let's not kid ourselves. These basic courses are easy, whether taken at a CC or 4-year. If its made hard by the professor and not content, drop and take with another. I hate to keep throwing bad news your way but many professors teach at both. If you didn't do well, retake the course.

Also, what makes you feel so entitled? Because you have a degree in "warp core engineering"? I hate to break it down to you, but space travel is far from PT school. This is healthcare and I don't want unproven [hasn't shown indication of growth] C students working on people.

The take home message is to work hard, stop comparing yourself to others and make things happen.

Amen.

 

[situational]

Picture it this way. The people with the "eazy peazy" degrees majored in what they were interested in. Usually, people excel at what they enjoy. Did you? Or they were mature enough to plan ahead and saw their end goal - grad school. Those who realized what they want later on, repeated courses [put in positive work], etc. If we are talking about qualities outside of GPA, that mentality shows something. Many who have gained entrance also have relatively decent to high pre-req GPAs which consist of the basic sciences. Many of those who were not offered seats may have lower GPAs in these same basic sciences, even though they majored in a hard science. Let's not kid ourselves. These basic courses are easy, whether taken at a CC or 4-year. If its made hard by the professor and not content, drop and take with another. I hate to keep throwing bad news your way but many professors teach at both. If you didn't do well, retake the course.

Also, what makes you feel so entitled? Because you have a degree in "warp core engineering"? I hate to break it down to you, but space travel is far from PT school. This is healthcare and I don't want unproven [hasn't shown indication of growth] C students working on people.

The take home message is to work hard, stop comparing yourself to others and make things happen.

Sure, people you know may have enjoyed their majors. Everyone *I* knew who was a communications major, or a history major, or a linguistics major, did it for the easy As. They wanted to go to law school and such. Maybe some turned around and went into healthcare too. Maybe they were smarter than me and had the foresight to know that all anyone really cares about outside of college is the GPA, and I wish I could have done the same. I really question the assertion that all these people did it because they enjoyed it. I was talking to my investment banker friend the other day how he ever managed to nab a position at Deutsche Bank:

"Yeah it was easy, all they care about is your GPA so I decided to take Political Science, you think I'm dumb enough to do major in something like mathematics for them? All I had to do was BS a story about a change of heart in my future goals."

Well played, Jason. If only I had known better myself.

You also overlooked the fact that science majors have to take difficult courses to complete their degree, whether they enjoy it or not. I like physiology. I like biology. But to complete my degree, I had to go through the evils of organic chemistry. I suffered Cs in the entire series, plus the lab. This hurt my overall GPA like you couldn't imagine. A communications major, for example, doesn't have to deal with this at all. I will gladly take this comment back if someone can show me that they have to deal with a course similar to o-chem in their course selection to get their degree.

By the way, I can support the notion that community college is easier than a respected four-year. It's night and day. All the toil, all the long hours studying and panicking, for a B. A fraction of that effort when I took prerequisites at my community college netted me As easily, even with no curve. You're probably offending a lot of people when you make a comment like that.

 

[babaO98]

One point that I think is being missed here is the study habits, time managements skills, and work ethic you need to be successful in PT school. Yes, taking an "easy major" (whatever you think that is) will get you a 4.0. But, IMO, it will Not prepare you for the rigors of PT school. There is no such thing as an easy A and you have to fight for every point you get. I am extremely thankful for my biology, chemistry, and physics prerequisites, even though they weren't great for my GPA. Why? Because they taught me to think through problems, to be persistent when I don't get it the first time, and to learn massive amounts of information in a short amount of time.

PT school is tough. Being in class 8-5 or later every day then coming home to study more is tough. But, if you have the work ethic before you get here, it is absolutely worth it.

Just my two cents.

 

[Azimuthal]

Would you like a whaaahburger and some frenchcries? "So and so chose the easy route and got a good job and he LIED!" Wow. So everyone who has an underwater basket weaving degree would have gotten F's in ochem (assuming all fundamentals also taken)? That's the level of arrogant thinking I sense. No one is trying to disclaim the rigors of a science major. But sitting there and saying your C in O-chem should give you preferential treatment is absurd.

"Sorry Jason - you can't do what I did (even if there is no way of measuring that). Oh, and for putting you on blast."

How much office hours did you accumulate for ochem? Tutor time? Rescheduled courses accordingly to lighten the load? Again, reality check, people who took ochem with you received A's. There are people on this board who took ochem and received A's and B's (that got in PT school) that are laughing at your malignant entitlementphrenia as they read your post. Did you even put in the work to retake those courses for A's? How did a biochem major end up with a 145V 145Q 3.5 and the underwater basket weaver with a 159V 160Q 5.0 on the GRE?

Effort speaks a lot through GPA. I agree that GPA shouldn't be the only factor that a program looks at, but you should also know that it is also the most reliable [though not much] predictor of how well you will do in grad school. As for the CC thing, I'll give that to you because it just depends. Where I'm from, Berkeley professors also teach at CC's. They say there is a difference in the quality of students, as shown through GPA, not by dumbing down their curriculum. Labs are a different story since most 4-years have more funding. As for the people I offended, seek counseling.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk. It's because I am. For everyone else, I do apologize. But if we are to get anything across, it's time to look foreword, humble ourselves and leave the entitlements behind.

 

[Nailey13]

Thank you, Azimuthal. I was typing out a long response, but you said it for me. You're last line, especially, is spot on. Well said!

 

[Azimuthal]

Thank you, Azimuthal. I was typing out a long response, but you said it for me. You're last line, especially, is spot on. Well said!

Doh! I knew I should have waited until after this morning's exam!

 

[Azimuthal]

One point that I think is being missed here is the study habits, time managements skills, and work ethic you need to be successful in PT school. Yes, taking an "easy major" (whatever you think that is) will get you a 4.0. But, IMO, it will Not prepare you for the rigors of PT school. There is no such thing as an easy A and you have to fight for every point you get. I am extremely thankful for my biology, chemistry, and physics prerequisites, even though they weren't great for my GPA. Why? Because they taught me to think through problems, to be persistent when I don't get it the first time, and to learn massive amounts of information in a short amount of time.

PT school is tough. Being in class 8-5 or later every day then coming home to study more is tough. But, if you have the work ethic before you get here, it is absolutely worth it.

Just my two cents.

 

[Azimuthal]

Your first line said it all. Even an "easy" major with those qualities will do fine.

 

[qtran]

I went to college and majored in what I was passionate about (even though some people on here thinks my major was easy). Pointless to waste four years learning something I didn't love.

 

[LOADWOAD]

Would you like a whaaahburger and some frenchcries? "So and so chose the easy route and got a good job and he LIED!" Wow. So everyone who has an underwater basket weaving degree would have gotten F's in ochem (assuming all fundamentals also taken)? That's the level of arrogant thinking I sense. No one is trying to disclaim the rigors of a science major. But sitting there and saying your C in O-chem should give you preferential treatment is absurd.

"Sorry Jason - you can't do what I did (even if there is no way of measuring that). Oh, and for putting you on blast."

How much office hours did you accumulate for ochem? Tutor time? Rescheduled courses accordingly to lighten the load? Again, reality check, people who took ochem with you received A's. There are people on this board who took ochem and received A's and B's (that got in PT school) that are laughing at your malignant entitlementphrenia as they read your post. Did you even put in the work to retake those courses for A's? How did a biochem major end up with a 145V 145Q 3.5 and the underwater basket weaver with a 159V 160Q 5.0 on the GRE?

Effort speaks a lot through GPA. I agree that GPA shouldn't be the only factor that a program looks at, but you should also know that it is also the most reliable [though not much] predictor of how well you will do in grad school. As for the CC thing, I'll give that to you because it just depends. Where I'm from, Berkeley professors also teach at CC's. They say there is a difference in the quality of students, as shown through GPA, not by dumbing down their curriculum. Labs are a different story since most 4-years have more funding. As for the people I offended, seek counseling.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk. It's because I am. For everyone else, I do apologize. But if we are to get anything across, it's time to look foreword, humble ourselves and leave the entitlements behind.

Well said!

 

[Lasombra]

Maybe a little late to the party, but the discussion on CC rigor is really interesting.

From an anecdata perspective, much more has been required of me while taking prereqs at a CC than ever was during my time at a CSU. Part of that's probably the nature of the content (I majored in computer science, not science science), but I'm comfortable saying these prereqs are no cakewalk by anyone's standards, no matter where you take them.

From a data data perspective -- My CC professor for molecular bio took a sabbatical a while back to work with UC Davis. He was studying the outcomes of students who started at our CC and ended up there. Turns out that Davis bio majors who took their lower division bio classes at the CC had higher GPAs in the upper division work than those who started at Davis.

That's not necessarily a knock on the four years, but CCs do have the advantages of smaller class sizes and more accessible professors. Plus the CC profs don't have research obligations on their time. Still, in at least some cases, CCs are the better option for preparing students for higher level work.

 

[DPTHopeful2012]

By the way, I can support the notion that community college is easier than a respected four-year. It's night and day. All the toil, all the long hours studying and panicking, for a B. A fraction of that effort when I took prerequisites at my community college netted me As easily, even with no curve. You're probably offending a lot of people when you make a comment like that.

It really depends on which CC and which Univ. you attended/are attending. CC classes were just as hard as my univ classes. You're offending professors and students when you make blanket statements like that.

 

[DPTHopeful2012]

Picture it this way. The people with the "eazy peazy" degrees majored in what they were interested in. Usually, people excel at what they enjoy. Did you? Or they were mature enough to plan ahead and saw their end goal - grad school. Those who realized what they want later on, repeated courses [put in positive work], etc. If we are talking about qualities outside of GPA, that mentality shows something. Many who have gained entrance also have relatively decent to high pre-req GPAs which consist of the basic sciences. Many of those who were not offered seats may have lower GPAs in these same basic sciences, even though they majored in a hard science. Let's not kid ourselves. These basic courses are easy, whether taken at a CC or 4-year. If its made hard by the professor and not content, drop and take with another. I hate to keep throwing bad news your way but many professors teach at both. If you didn't do well, retake the course.

Also, what makes you feel so entitled? Because you have a degree in "warp core engineering"? I hate to break it down to you, but space travel is far from PT school. This is healthcare and I don't want unproven [hasn't shown indication of growth] C students working on people.

The take home message is to work hard, stop comparing yourself to others and make things happen.

Yep.

 

[DPTHopeful2012]

Would you like a whaaahburger and some frenchcries? "So and so chose the easy route and got a good job and he LIED!" Wow. So everyone who has an underwater basket weaving degree would have gotten F's in ochem (assuming all fundamentals also taken)? That's the level of arrogant thinking I sense. No one is trying to disclaim the rigors of a science major. But sitting there and saying your C in O-chem should give you preferential treatment is absurd.

"Sorry Jason - you can't do what I did (even if there is no way of measuring that). Oh, and for putting you on blast."

How much office hours did you accumulate for ochem? Tutor time? Rescheduled courses accordingly to lighten the load? Again, reality check, people who took ochem with you received A's. There are people on this board who took ochem and received A's and B's (that got in PT school) that are laughing at your malignant entitlementphrenia as they read your post. Did you even put in the work to retake those courses for A's? How did a biochem major end up with a 145V 145Q 3.5 and the underwater basket weaver with a 159V 160Q 5.0 on the GRE?

Effort speaks a lot through GPA. I agree that GPA shouldn't be the only factor that a program looks at, but you should also know that it is also the most reliable [though not much] predictor of how well you will do in grad school. As for the CC thing, I'll give that to you because it just depends. Where I'm from, Berkeley professors also teach at CC's. They say there is a difference in the quality of students, as shown through GPA, not by dumbing down their curriculum. Labs are a different story since most 4-years have more funding. As for the people I offended, seek counseling.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk. It's because I am. For everyone else, I do apologize. But if we are to get anything across, it's time to look foreword, humble ourselves and leave the entitlements behind.

Yep, again. And at waaahhburger and frenchcries.

 

[pubicsymphysis]

Would you like a whaaahburger and some frenchcries? "So and so chose the easy route and got a good job and he LIED!" Wow. So everyone who has an underwater basket weaving degree would have gotten F's in ochem (assuming all fundamentals also taken)? That's the level of arrogant thinking I sense. No one is trying to disclaim the rigors of a science major. But sitting there and saying your C in O-chem should give you preferential treatment is absurd.

"Sorry Jason - you can't do what I did (even if there is no way of measuring that). Oh, and for putting you on blast."

How much office hours did you accumulate for ochem? Tutor time? Rescheduled courses accordingly to lighten the load? Again, reality check, people who took ochem with you received A's. There are people on this board who took ochem and received A's and B's (that got in PT school) that are laughing at your malignant entitlementphrenia as they read your post. Did you even put in the work to retake those courses for A's? How did a biochem major end up with a 145V 145Q 3.5 and the underwater basket weaver with a 159V 160Q 5.0 on the GRE?

Effort speaks a lot through GPA. I agree that GPA shouldn't be the only factor that a program looks at, but you should also know that it is also the most reliable [though not much] predictor of how well you will do in grad school. As for the CC thing, I'll give that to you because it just depends. Where I'm from, Berkeley professors also teach at CC's. They say there is a difference in the quality of students, as shown through GPA, not by dumbing down their curriculum. Labs are a different story since most 4-years have more funding. As for the people I offended, seek counseling.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk. It's because I am. For everyone else, I do apologize. But if we are to get anything across, it's time to look foreword, humble ourselves and leave the entitlements behind.

Damn going HAM! Love it love it!!!!

 

[gray0620]

I agree completely, Kevin. From a business perspective, I think some of the better programs in the country do the interview process the correct way. That is by entertaining the prospective student to commit to their school by giving them a great experience on campus instead of interviewing their life away. I agree there should be some part of a communication part of your interview to make sure the applicant can talk to other people but it shouldn't be to quiz them. If they haven't shown you what they are capable of by now, then I wouldn't choose that school. For example, at Rosalind Franklins interviews we were there roughly 8 hours. This included a poor lunch , interview, and also another standardized test. This definitely turned me away from their program.

 

[situational]

Would you like a whaaahburger and some frenchcries? "So and so chose the easy route and got a good job and he LIED!" Wow. So everyone who has an underwater basket weaving degree would have gotten F's in ochem (assuming all fundamentals also taken)? That's the level of arrogant thinking I sense. No one is trying to disclaim the rigors of a science major. But sitting there and saying your C in O-chem should give you preferential treatment is absurd.

"Sorry Jason - you can't do what I did (even if there is no way of measuring that). Oh, and for putting you on blast."

How much office hours did you accumulate for ochem? Tutor time? Rescheduled courses accordingly to lighten the load? Again, reality check, people who took ochem with you received A's. There are people on this board who took ochem and received A's and B's (that got in PT school) that are laughing at your malignant entitlementphrenia as they read your post. Did you even put in the work to retake those courses for A's? How did a biochem major end up with a 145V 145Q 3.5 and the underwater basket weaver with a 159V 160Q 5.0 on the GRE?

Effort speaks a lot through GPA. I agree that GPA shouldn't be the only factor that a program looks at, but you should also know that it is also the most reliable [though not much] predictor of how well you will do in grad school. As for the CC thing, I'll give that to you because it just depends. Where I'm from, Berkeley professors also teach at CC's. They say there is a difference in the quality of students, as shown through GPA, not by dumbing down their curriculum. Labs are a different story since most 4-years have more funding. As for the people I offended, seek counseling.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk. It's because I am. For everyone else, I do apologize. But if we are to get anything across, it's time to look foreword, humble ourselves and leave the entitlements behind.

Stop thinking I am acting so entitled. If you look down this forum, you'll see I made a thread where I asked for help to improve my GPA and my application as a whole. I came into this thread because I wanted to contribute to the discussion because I have experienced and have also considered the reasons why people are upset, and your post stuck out because it was very condescending. You still didn't address the main issue I brought up. What do you do when someone realizes they can game the system after undergrad before they go to undergrad, and take an easier major to begin with? I don't mind the people who genuinely loved their majors. I am concerned with people like Jason.

No one said I should get better treatment than the person who took water-weaving. But the fact of the matter is that he did not ever have to deal with courses that will bring down his or her GPA. You say just retake courses, so easy. It's so easy! You're right. I had to. I had to retake my linear algebra course because the first time I got a D. The second time I got an A. Why the hell do I even need linear algebra for my degree? Does PT care I had to take linear algebra? No, they don't care that I finally got an A in it, but the D brought down my GPA nonetheless, and that's what they see.

It's so easy for me to retake these courses at community colleges! I only live in a bankrupt state and have to petition with thirty people to get into a class of thirty. We don't even have summer school here this year because we're broke. Are you just going to tell me to get up and move to another area so I can have easier access to retake courses? Your words may be true, but being in a situation where it's simply not feasible to retake courses and I must find other avenues to improve my application in hopes they see past my numbers just makes me upset while you sit there on your throne laughing at the rest of us.

Also to dispel your delusions of me, I received a 162/161/5.0 on my GREs.

Also for another example, back when I was considering taking a post-bac program to apply to medical school (I dont want to do medicine anymore), I took the MCAT to get it out of the way. I got a 36R just brushing up on stuff that I learned over the summer. But according to my GPA, I'm an absolute **** student and I couldn't and didn't learn anything, right?

 

[HughLee]

I agree completely, Kevin. From a business perspective, I think some of the better programs in the country do the interview process the correct way. That is by entertaining the prospective student to commit to their school by giving them a great experience on campus instead of interviewing their life away. I agree there should be some part of a communication part of your interview to make sure the applicant can talk to other people but it shouldn't be to quiz them. If they haven't shown you what they are capable of by now, then I wouldn't choose that school. For example, at Rosalind Franklins interviews we were there roughly 8 hours. This included a poor lunch , interview, and also another standardized test. This definitely turned me away from their program.

If you don't mind my asking, what about the interview experiences that you did like? What were they like? How long were they?

We have a presentation by our chair, lunch with 1st and 2nd year students, a 15 minute interview, and a possible tour of the campus.

 

[nismo13]

Stop thinking I am acting so entitled. If you look down this forum, you'll see I made a thread where I asked for help to improve my GPA and my application as a whole. I came into this thread because I wanted to contribute to the discussion because I have experienced and have also considered the reasons why people are upset, and your post stuck out because it was very condescending. You still didn't address the main issue I brought up. What do you do when someone realizes they can game the system after undergrad before they go to undergrad, and take an easier major to begin with? I don't mind the people who genuinely loved their majors. I am concerned with people like Jason.

No one said I should get better treatment than the person who took water-weaving. But the fact of the matter is that he did not ever have to deal with courses that will bring down his or her GPA. You say just retake courses, so easy. It's so easy! You're right. I had to. I had to retake course my linear algebra course because the first time I got a D. The second time I got an A. Why the hell do I even need linear algebra for my degree? Does PT care I had to take linear algebra? No, they don't care that I finally got an A in it, but the D brought down my GPA nonetheless, and that's what they see.

It's so easy for me to retake these courses at community colleges! I only live in a bankrupt state and have to petition with thirty people to get into a class of thirty. We don't even have summer school here this year because we're broke. Are you just going to tell me to get up and move to another area so I can have easier access to retake courses? Your words may be true, but being in a situation where it's simply not feasible to retake courses and I must find other avenues to improve my application in hopes they see past my numbers just makes me upset while you sit there on your throne laughing at the rest of us.

Also to dispel your delusions of me, I received a 162/161/5.0 on my GREs.

Also for another example, back when I was considering taking a post-bac program to apply to medical school (I dont want to do medicine anymore), I took the MCAT to get it out of the way. I got a 36R just brushing up on stuff that I learned over the summer. But according to my GPA, I'm an absolute **** student and I couldn't and didn't learn anything, right?

Impressive.

Just wondering why you decided against medicine and went towards PT? I've heard of PTs going back to school and into medicine but never a pre med switching to PT.

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