F on transcript

[physcigirl27]

So I've been hearing a lot about people saying that a W is better than an F but here's my situation. Last year, I was taking a math class and had one hell of a quarter. It sounds too tragic to be true but my aunt died the night before one midterm, another uncle died a few days before the second and my dad was in the ER right before my final (as a result of stress accumulating from the deaths)...so basically I ended up failing. When I talked to my counselor at school (I regret this greatly) he said that an F will look bad but it'll be easier for me to explain the situation. With a W med school admissions could assume that I dropped because I was getting a C or whatnot (especially because the W would state the date I dropped...a day before the final). I mean in hindsight I really had no control because I didn't know that all this stuff would happen but yeah I ended up failing. I don't think I went in knowing that I was going to fail the class, that there was absolutely no hope.
Does an F automatically make me completely undesirable to admissions?
I'm really worried after reading what people wrote here.

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[greg1184]

If you do fail the class, retake it and do well on it. It won't completely heal your wound, but it may slow down the bleeding. You are on thinner ice for the rest of your undergrad. Be prepared to explain in an interview the circumstances in which you failed the class WITHOUT making up excuses.

 

[dw2158]

you will for sure need to retake the class. i know for DO schools they replace the F with the new grade when you retake, so that should save your GPA. for MD, well, you just have to accept that your GPA will be damaged. if this is really your only slip-up, then i don't think it's impossible to recover by any means. but you will need lots of As to bring your GPA up.

 

[SiR99]

There might be a way to fix this.

Go to your counseling office, there is a petition you can fill out that explains your situation and I THINK you can have your grade replaced with a W.

If I remember correctly these petitions are RARELY Approved, but they are for serious situations like a death in the family. The thing is that your aunt and uncle passed away, I think the petitions are more for an immediate family member like a parent.

It couldnt hurt to try, go to your counseling office and ask them about petitioning this.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Does an F automatically make me completely undesirable to admissions?
I'm really worried after reading what people wrote here.

No. I have a relatively recent F, and got 3 interviews. Make sure your GPA is good, and the rest of your application is strong.


Edit: Also, your school should fire the counselor. That's the worst advice I've ever heard.

 

[DNM]

So he actually said something to the effect of, take the F because if you take the W schools will think you were going to have gotten a C?

 

[JeepMD]

I agree with much of what has been posted. 1) The F definitely hurts, but may not be a deal breaker. 2) The counselor was an idiot. A W may not even be addressed in an interview, but an F definitely will. Given the same "explanation" for either, I'd much rather be explaining a GPA-benign W than a GPA-crushing F.

I had 3 W's on my transcript and most interviewers didn't even mention them. However, this reminds me of a funny instance I had at an interview recently. The interview asks me "anything you thought I might ask about that you're glad I didn't?" To which I responded, "Yeah, I'm kind of glad you didn't pick apart a course here or there on my transcript where I didn't do as well."

He then says, "well I'm sorry if I sound cynical here, because I don't want to, but I never find much utility in doing that because everyone comes up with some sort of excuse or another anyways. I often think to myself that bad grades in Organic Chemistry are the leading cause of death for grandparents."

Pretty hilarious if you ask me. However, hopefully this will give you some insight as to how some interviewers won't harp on one single grade and instead will look more at the big picture.

 

[WiseGuy1]

Your counselor must be getting advice from my counselor. I was failing calculus my freshman year and she insisted that an F is better than a W. Me, being a ignorant freshman and thinking this pre-med advisor knows best, followed her advice. My GPA is still recovering. I am a biology major so I have tons of science classes, and I have made A's is most of them, but the one F dropped my final BCPM GPA 0.2 points and my overall 0.1 points. This seems small, but I really feel I would have an acceptance by now if it weren't for that one grade affecting my GPA so much. I honestly didn't even realize that she was wrong until I discovered SDN.

 

[physcigirl27]

Your counselor must be getting advice from my counselor. I was failing calculus my freshman year and she insisted that an F is better than a W. Me, being a ignorant freshman and thinking this pre-med advisor knows best, followed her advice. My GPA is still recovering. I am a biology major so I have tons of science classes, and I have made A's is most of them, but the one F dropped my final BCPM GPA 0.2 points and my overall 0.1 points. This seems small, but I really feel I would have an acceptance by now if it weren't for that one grade affecting my GPA so much. I honestly didn't even realize that she was wrong until I discovered SDN.

Yeah I'm really upset that I didn't know, but I was totally clueless (I was a humanities major, Pre-law with a 4.0 previously so having to withdraw from a course because I was failing wasn't something that I even thought would happen)...I mean I'm more than prepared to explain the situation but I'm scared that I won't even have that opportunity because that F will most likely close doors to medical school.

 

[cattt]

.

 

[searun]

So he actually said something to the effect of, take the F because if you take the W schools will think you were going to have gotten a C?

Exactly, I fell out of my chair laughing. God, I love premed advisors! But, on the other hand, if you take premed advisors seriously, I guess you deserve what you get.

 

[searun]

I can assure you my transcript was much uglier than yours, and I'm now wrapping up my 2nd year at a pretty good med school.

I had an F on my transcript and 5 W's. I was also a humanities major. I offered an explanation for them in the secondaries, and asked one of my letter writers to mention them as well. I should note that my explanation wasn't nearly as good as yours. The F was due to a late term paper that was sort of not my fault (though it sort of was). The course appeared as a retake the following term after I turned in the paper. The W's just basically had to do with the fact that I changed my mind about the course early on in the terms (none of them were pre-med courses). I also had to re-take o-chem. And my overall GPA was <3.5.

Anyway, this isn't going to hurt you as much as you think it will. Like I said, I offered explanations for these blips in my transcript, which seem to have worked at some places. I got tons of interviews and tons of acceptances (note: in case you're curious, I'm not URM). I also got rejected by tons of schools. Just apply to a huge number of schools, and I'd bet that at least 2/3 of them will be forgiving about that single situation and take a more comprehensive look at you as an applicant.

Exactly, how much does a ton of acceptances weigh? Less than a ton of rejections, or about the same?

 

[DNM]

I had 3 W's on my transcript and most interviewers didn't even mention them. However, this reminds me of a funny instance I had at an interview recently. The interview asks me "anything you thought I might ask about that you're glad I didn't?" To which I responded, "Yeah, I'm kind of glad you didn't pick apart a course here or there on my transcript where I didn't do as well."

He then says, "well I'm sorry if I sound cynical here, because I don't want to, but I never find much utility in doing that because everyone comes up with some sort of excuse or another anyways. I often think to myself that bad grades in Organic Chemistry are the leading cause of death for grandparents."

Pretty hilarious if you ask me. However, hopefully this will give you some insight as to how some interviewers won't harp on one single grade and instead will look more at the big picture.

 

[physcigirl27]

What's a URM?

 

[greg1184]

What's a URM?

Under-represented minority.

 

[thegnomedance]

So he actually said something to the effect of, take the F because if you take the W schools will think you were going to have gotten a C?

Hah, you sure showed them right? No W's in actual emergencies (lest it appear your taking advantage of an option available precisely for the circumstances you found yourself in), an F on the transcript really proves you were in a bind!

 

[redlight]

i can kind of see why you didnt want you to take the W RIGHT BEFORE finals, weeks after most of the horrible events (sorry for your losses). how was your grade heading into finals? you can say you were salvaging a passing grade but your dad in the ER the night before the final pushed you over the tipping point, if it is true of course.

im sure it can be explained.. 2 deaths is a big deal especially if they are loved ones. some people need weeks just to recover from absolute anguish that comes with a loss of someone dear to them.. some dont ever recover, so im sure adcom can sympathize.... but what might raise suspicion is if you only suffered in this one class. then it might be bad events plus not being a good math student in the first place, which may mean less empathy in regard to your grades. this is all pure speculation, though. maybe you should bring it up in the sdn mentor forum? they have real and retired adcom to answer your questions. gl

 

[Bacchus]

Exactly, I fell out of my chair laughing. God, I love premed advisors! But, on the other hand, if you take premed advisors seriously, I guess you deserve what you get.

In defense, first and second year students have no idea about the medical school process and look to those put in guidance positions to be looking out for their best interests.

 

[pietachok]

That was terrible advice. The W does not go into your GPA, whereas the F does. If your school can allow you to appeal you should. If you cannot appeal simply by appealing to the school, I would complain to the OMBUDS department at your school about your premed adviser. I think that across the board, consensus is that the advice was wrong, here.

You can get in with an F. You can get in with a W. If you have a LOR from another prof in the same semester or who has known you throughout who will mention your situation, it will recover it. I have a W and 3 C's on my transcript and got into USC, so don't feel like your med school hopes are over.

Later on, if the rest of your grades/MCAT or motivations make it look like you are going to apply D.O., then you should retake that specific course. Otherwise, take a more advanced course in the same topic to prove you can do it (assuming you can), b/c M.D. applicant GPAs do not replace grades like the D.O. GPAs do.

 

[Superman78]

You can get a bunch of F's and D's and C's and still get into medical school.

It just means you have to work that much harder to splatter A's all over the rest of your transcript (a super upward trend while at the same time taking even more difficult classes), to rock the MCAT, and to be perfect in everything else, LOR's, essays, interview, EC's, which most likely means taking one or two extra years. So it makes the target more narrow but you can still land on it if you have perfect form.

But one F is nothing, just retake the class and move on. If they see one F in a sea of A's it will mean nothing to them, it'll just be an interesting question to ask about during the interview. And they'll expect the answer you'll give - deaths in the family. BUT, when you're giving that response, make sure to also say that it was your failing as well and you can't blame it all on external forces.

 

[rom73085]

I was in the same boat as a freshman. I'm kicking myself right now for listening to that crackpot of an advisor.

 

[physcigirl27]

In defense, first and second year students have no idea about the medical school process and look to those put in guidance positions to be looking out for their best interests.

Thanks, Yeah I really didn't know...I don't really have any other drs in the family or premeds so I was trying to figure out everything on my own.

On another note, I'm glad someone else agrees with me about Kate Walsh.

 

[Beta Cell]

What is a troll?

 

[235009]

you absolutely need to confront your counselor about this and tell him directly (but in the nicest way possible) that you have now found out that his advice is wrong and you should have taken the W instead of the F and get him to rectify the situation. if he isn't responsive go to someone above him. I am usually not a fan of crying over grades or making a huge fuss, nor am i a fan of W's but in this situation i think you are totally justified in making a fuss and taking a W. I'm also well aware how horribly incompetent counselors can be....most importantly don't let this slide longer than it already has....try to take care of it now

 

[mick578]

I’m aware this post is from 2009 and I may not get a reply. Some schools replace grades completely if you retake the course. Is that not sufficient for Med school?

I’m looking at a D in pre calc 2, worst teacher I’ve ever had. Class started with 40 a full house and she’s got it down to 6 and proud of it. I’m looking at focusing on my other 13 credits as finals approach and retaking the course as my institution replaces my grade and doesn’t average them. Will this work? Hope you got into med school physcigirl27!

 

[bluepeony]

I’m aware this post is from 2009 and I may not get a reply. Some schools replace grades completely if you retake the course. Is that not sufficient for Med school?

I’m looking at a D in pre calc 2, worst teacher I’ve ever had. Class started with 40 a full house and she’s got it down to 6 and proud of it. I’m looking at focusing on my other 13 credits as finals approach and retaking the course as my institution replaces my grade and doesn’t average them. Will this work? Hope you got into med school physcigirl27!

No, you will need to input all grades into AMCAS (allopathic med school app system). If you get an A on your second attempt at precalc 2, it will be averaged out with the D.

 

[Dr panda]

I’m aware this post is from 2009 and I may not get a reply. Some schools replace grades completely if you retake the course. Is that not sufficient for Med school?

I’m looking at a D in pre calc 2, worst teacher I’ve ever had. Class started with 40 a full house and she’s got it down to 6 and proud of it. I’m looking at focusing on my other 13 credits as finals approach and retaking the course as my institution replaces my grade and doesn’t average them. Will this work? Hope you got into med school physcigirl27!

Drop ASAP

 

[Goro]

So I've been hearing a lot about people saying that a W is better than an F but here's my situation. Last year, I was taking a math class and had one hell of a quarter. It sounds too tragic to be true but my aunt died the night before one midterm, another uncle died a few days before the second and my dad was in the ER right before my final (as a result of stress accumulating from the deaths)...so basically I ended up failing. When I talked to my counselor at school (I regret this greatly) he said that an F will look bad but it'll be easier for me to explain the situation. With a W med school admissions could assume that I dropped because I was getting a C or whatnot (especially because the W would state the date I dropped...a day before the final). I mean in hindsight I really had no control because I didn't know that all this stuff would happen but yeah I ended up failing. I don't think I went in knowing that I was going to fail the class, that there was absolutely no hope.
Does an F automatically make me completely undesirable to admissions?
I'm really worried after reading what people wrote here.

No. An F is not lethal.

Very sorry to hear if your troubles,but those are precisely why the W exists.

 

[PlsLetMeIn21]

I wonder if the OP got into medical school. If he or she did, they're probably finishing residency about now.

 

[kingdomheart]

I wonder if the OP got into medical school. If he or she did, they're probably finishing residency about now.

their status was changed to Medical Student, so I assume so, thats awesome tho

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Looks like they got into Lincoln Memorial - DeBusk (LMU-DCOM).