Failed CS, need some guidance

[cruchot]

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First I want to apologize for my previous post title. I have no intention of harming myself. I was just upset about my CS result. I am not even depressed just upset.
Thank you all for reporting the post.

Now, I still need your thoughts about the failure.
Does it really hurt one's application, especially IMG? should I mention that on my personal statement?
How to go smart about it?

Thank you again.

 

[mcl]

First I want to apologize for my previous post title. I have no intention of harming myself. I was just upset about my CS result. I am not even depressed just upset.
Thank you all for reporting the post.

Now, I still need your thoughts about the failure.
Does it really hurt one's application, especially IMG? should I mention that on my personal statement?
How to go smart about it?

Thank you again.

It's not the end of the world. It certainly won't enhance your application, but a CS failure can be overcome. I recommend that a) you retake and pass as soon as possible so that it will appear to be a glitch; b) you take Step 2 and pass as soon as possible so that programs see all three scores; c) you apply more broadly than you might have originally planned. If you retake/pass CS quickly, there is absolutely no need to address it in the personal statement. Even if you don't, such explanations often come across as excuses (which won't help you get an interview). If you don't think you can schedule a re-take that would be allow the score to be posted either before Sept 15th or soon afterward, I think a sentence or two in an LOR would be a better tactic. (Writer has worked with you directly and can attest to your skill in working with patients).

Good luck!

 

[cruchot]

mcl, thank you for the reply. Great suggestion to use the LoR to address CS as unfortunately I won't be able to take CS until October-November.
Like I said, I cannot explain the failure. I have had great evaluations during all my rotations and almost all my attendings gave me a LoR (already uploaded).

 

[mcl]

mcl, thank you for the reply. Great suggestion to use the LoR to address CS as unfortunately I won't be able to take CS until October-November.
Like I said, I cannot explain the failure. I have had great evaluations during all my rotations and almost all my attendings gave me a LoR (already uploaded).

At least a retake in Oct/Nov could post a score while interviews are still in process, and will definitely post a score before rank lists are due.

 

[thehundredthone]

As an IMG, not being ECFMG verified/certified can be an issue.

 

[cruchot]

Do you mean that I need to be ECFMG certified in order to get a chance for interview?
I am still 4th year and I will graduating at the end of year. So I will be certified around that time.

 

[axiomofchoice]

I know people are trying to be encouraging, and I support that. You shouldn't give up as you've come this far.

But to answer your question whether a failed CS will affect an IMG's chances: yes, probably one of the worst things you can do to yourself.

 

[cruchot]

should I even apply this year?

 

[axiomofchoice]

Can you officially delay your graduation til next year. Pick up a research elective for 6months before finishing rotations? If so, then delay, and apply with ECFMG certification. If not, give it a whirl

 

[Raryn]

Do you mean that I need to be ECFMG certified in order to get a chance for interview?
I am still 4th year and I will graduating at the end of year. So I will be certified around that time.

Certified (as in you have your diploma)? No.

Verified (as in having passed Step 1, CK, and CS)? Yes. Without having passed all three required steps before September 15, your odds of getting any interviews as an IMG become very, very slim until they are on your transcript.

That is, a CS fail is a red flag, but a reasonably small one. Lots of people pass on the second attempt and still match.

A CS fail without a subsequent pass is a huge red flag that will lead to your application being ignored. Especially for an IMG.

 

[cruchot]

I am a US-IMG, still 4th year student, with step 1 = 215, step 2 scheduled for August 4th, CS failure (ICE component), A's and 2 B's in my transcript, great LoRs (all from US MDs), great evaluations, aiming for Family medicine. By September 15th, I will have Step 1 and CK done, but not CS 2nd attempt. I will be graduating in January 2018. What will you do for this year match?

Will you still go all in? or delay for another year?

 

[FlowLimited]

This is the 3rd thread you've started on this topic (the first being locked). What's the deal?

 

[cruchot]

The deal is that I am completely lost after my (unexpected CS failure).
I am still in chock and I guess.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I can't imagine any program looking at you seriously with a CS failure and without a pass on your application.

Merging your two threads.

 

[Dral]

Agree with Winged Scapula. You need CS and CK passes (preferably a great CK score) before you even apply. You're wasting time and money otherwise. Your step I score isn't very strong. One of the first things app reviewers look at is your scores. Low pass step I, cs fail could maybe get you on the 'maybe pile' at best at a few programs. Maybe not even that.

Unfortunately you're now going to have a gap in training because you will graduate in January, but not be applying until 2 cycles from now. You could maybe ask your school for a graduation extension, but that means more tuition money. Not to be negative, but you have to think of damage control in the unfortunate event you don't match.

Best of luck. You're facing an uphill battle, but I think you can do it if you put in the effort.

 

[rokshana]

The deal is that I am completely lost after my (unexpected CS failure).
I am still in chock and I guess.

Well while you think it's the biggest thing in the world, repeatedly starting threads on the same topic isn't really going to help.

It's July...you need to retake CS ASAP and pass...cancellations happen all the time. Keep looking for one and then schedule it. Even if the pass isn't there by sept, it's should be there before oct or nov...still time to get interviews for dec and Jan.

And I don't know why people think that if they have decent stats and do a bunch of extracurricular stuff that it will somehow over come a fail on a step...and failing a "part" of CS is still failing the test.

 

[hallowmann]

I am a US-IMG, still 4th year student, with step 1 = 215, step 2 scheduled for August 4th, CS failure (ICE component), A's and 2 B's in my transcript, great LoRs (all from US MDs), great evaluations, aiming for Family medicine. By September 15th, I will have Step 1 and CK done, but not CS 2nd attempt. I will be graduating in January 2018. What will you do for this year match?

Will you still go all in? or delay for another year?

I wouldn't apply this year. Get all your ducks in a row to apply Sept 2018. That also gives you plenty of time to study hard and do well on CK. I know many IMGs that applied after graduating and managed to find positions. You need to have everything passed and verified ECFMG status by the time you apply. If possible, delay your graduation through at least Sept so you can apply as a senior. If you can't, you might as well finish your ECFMG paperwork.

Alternatively, you can see if you can get a pass on CS before that and get ECFMG verified by at least the end of Sept. Much later than that really won't help you.

 

[cruchot]

thank you all for your replies. Anybody knows if PDs do screen out based on CS failure?
I checked the participating programs for the next match and many require ECFMG certification at time of application and others want it before ranking list and others require it before residency start.

I really need to apply this year. Money is not an issue. I made so much sacrifices not to try...if I know I have 1 chance to get an interview.
My main concern is to get an interview, as I know I can sell myself and have a lot to bring to the medical field. the CS failure doesn't reflect my potential at all and I am not dangerous to patient.

thanks for your contribution.

 

[rokshana]

thank you all for your replies. Anybody knows if PDs do screen out based on CS failure?
I checked the participating programs for the next match and many require ECFMG certification at time of application and others want it before ranking list and others require it before residency start.

I really need to apply this year. Money is not an issue. I made so much sacrifices not to try...if I know I have 1 chance to get an interview.
My main concern is to get an interview, as I know I can sell myself and have a lot to bring to the medical field. the CS failure doesn't reflect my potential at all and I am not dangerous to patient.

thanks for your contribution.

you are willing to spend money and make sacrifices, blah, blah, blah...but apparently not to take the CS seriously...you need to sit down, study for the damn thing and keep refreshing the CS scheduling calendar until you see a cancellation and reschedule it. You take it in July, it will m/l result by October...why is this so hard to understand?

 

[cruchot]

@rokshana, don't judge me, you don't know me. You 2 posts are just aggressive. All I am asking for is some reassurance that it is still possible. If you have nothing nice to say, better not say anything. You are a physician so have some empathy for a distressed student (after all, you have been a medical student as well).

FYI, I took and still take the exam seriously. I already signed up for $600 prep course. At this time, I am still not able to apply for another scheduling permit as it seems that there is something wrong with my application. Below is the email I keep getting when I try to apply for a new permit:

"Your request to override your Step 2 CS application cannot be completed because your application has already been processed. You are registered for Step 2 CS.

Please do not submit inquiries to this mailbox. Messages sent to this e-mail address will not receive responses.

Sincerely,

Registration and Credentials Services

I already called them and they are escalating that to the IT team. Anyway, thank you for your time.

 

[rokshana]

@rokshana, don't judge me, you don't know me. You 2 posts are just aggressive. All I am asking for is some reassurance that it is still possible. If you have nothing nice to say, better not say anything. You are a physician so have some empathy for a distressed student (after all, you have been a medical student as well).

FYI, I took and still take the exam seriously. I already signed up for $600 prep course. At this time, I am still not able to apply for another scheduling permit as it seems that there is something wrong with my application. Below is the email I keep getting when I try to apply for a new permit:

"Your request to override your Step 2 CS application cannot be completed because your application has already been processed. You are registered for Step 2 CS.

Please do not submit inquiries to this mailbox. Messages sent to this e-mail address will not receive responses.

Sincerely,

Registration and Credentials Services

I already called them and they are escalating that to the IT team. Anyway, thank you for your time.

you're right, I don't know, you, but i most certainly know the type of applicant you project out to the programs. When you don't match, you will come here and bemoan the fact that the match isn't fair and why didn't you match??

well, reassurance is not something you are going to find...you have a HUGE red flag...you are an IMG (already a red flag) and on top of that you failed CS...what do you want...someone to pet you on the head and say it will be ok? its not...unless you are very very proactive about it.

go to the SOAP thread and see what went on this last year...IMG with NO red flags and even AMGs with no red flags didn't match...when the programs have their pick of applicants, why are they going to take you over someone with no issues?

I'm glad you have talked to them about getting rescheduled...but what are you doing now? have you gotten a copy of First Aid for CS and going through the cases? with a real person? It really is all you need, per se, but having failed it once, taking a course should help.

and you must be new to sdn...we judge people all the time..a thicker skin, both here and in medicine in general is a helpful thing to develop.

 

[cruchot]

I really hope you treat your patients with a better open mind. You are assuming way too much, it's crazy.
If you wanna know what I am doing, I am sitting at my desk studying for CK which is very soon.
Also, I am not new here but my account is. Very few people judge here and I noticed, based on your posts, that you are one of those...I guess it is your personality, but please, get down from whatever pedestal you think you are.

You know what....I WILL MATCH

 

[FlowLimited]

You need to give yourself a chance to be successful. Applying this cycle and hoping for a passing score that you won't even receive until December or January is setting yourself up for failure. Maybe it's a different story if you can somehow retake in the summer.

 

[rokshana]

You need to give yourself a chance to be successful. Applying this cycle and hoping for a passing score that you won't even receive until December or January is setting yourself up for failure. Maybe it's a different story if you can somehow retake in the summer.

well, he HAS to have a passing score the time the ROL is due otherwise he is automatically withdrawn from the match...and to do so, you have to take it by dec to have it reported by the the ROL due date.

but realistically, that passed CS score needs to be reported by sept/oct to get enough interviews (10-15) to feel comfortable to match....it would be one thing if he just didn't have a CS score...a great step I score can get an applicant over and still get invites...but the CS failure with no pass is going to filter him out of a lot of places...family isn't as uncompetitive as it was, even 5 years ago...

 

[Buzz Me]

I wouldn't apply this year. Take your time to really study and prepare for the test this time, pass it, then apply for the Match next time. Applying and not matching isn't going to help your CV.

You say that you feel like you passed - yet even though you're a US-IMG, your posts don't sound like those of a true native speaker. Did you grow up speaking another language at home? Do you think there's any way that communication was an issue during the test?

 

[cruchot]

@Buzz Me, the feedback I got showed that English was not an issue...I received high performance there. I failed the ICE, the part with PE, and PN.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The only thing you have to lose by applying this year is money, and your pride. You mentioned money wasn't an issue. Hence, you should just apply and see what happens. If you don't get interviews / don't get a spot, then you'll just apply the next year. Programs won't know (and won't care) that you've applied before .

 

[HelpMeFailedStep1]

you're right, I don't know, you, but i most certainly know the type of applicant you project out to the programs. When you don't match, you will come here and bemoan the fact that the match isn't fair and why didn't you match??

well, reassurance is not something you are going to find...you have a HUGE red flag...you are an IMG (already a red flag) and on top of that you failed CS...what do you want...someone to pet you on the head and say it will be ok? its not...unless you are very very proactive about it.

go to the SOAP thread and see what went on this last year...IMG with NO red flags and even AMGs with no red flags didn't match...when the programs have their pick of applicants, why are they going to take you over someone with no issues?

I'm glad you have talked to them about getting rescheduled...but what are you doing now? have you gotten a copy of First Aid for CS and going through the cases? with a real person? It really is all you need, per se, but having failed it once, taking a course should help.

and you must be new to sdn...we judge people all the time..a thicker skin, both here and in medicine in general is a helpful thing to develop.

.

 

[CDI]

Wait, wait, IMG AND AMG with no red flags didnt match?

Why is that? Applying to wrong specialties? Not broadly enough? Flubbing interviews?????

Sure, lots of IMGs and AMGs didn't match with no red flags. That's just how it goes nowadays. Combination of all of the above.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Wait, wait, IMG AND AMG with no red flags didnt match?

Why is that? Applying to wrong specialties? Not broadly enough? Flubbing interviews?????

I don't know why you bumped this mostly unrelated thread to ask the question, but yes, mostly one of the 3 thing you suggested. People either have their heart set on a specialty that they aren't competitive for, are snobs who think they are "too good" to apply to anything but the top programs, or are weird as hell and are off-putting in an interview.

Don't do those things and you'll probably be fine.

 

[CDI]

Programs care a lot less about a single CS failure than any other major criteria I've seen.

The more strict filtering criteria are Step 1, Step 2 CK, AMG vs. IMG, and year of graduation.

Getting above 220s, AMG, and current 4th year medical student is the top dog. All else fall in line below.

If you don't have 220s as an IMGs you'll likely get auto-filtered out by something like ~90-95% of programs these days.

No one will outright tell you that, but it's just the fact these days because so many AMGs (MDs and DOs) are going unmatched that programs can scoop them up in the SOAP for 10 cents on the dollar and just hope their short vetting process weeds out the weird ones.