Failed grade for block due to absences from illness, impact on future competitive match?

[FortuneDoesntFavorFools]

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If I have a failed grade for a block/clerkship due to absences related to illness, are my chances for competitive specialties (like surgical subspecialties) basically zero, regardless of the reason? I’ve tried to appeal the grade and have showed medical documentation from my PCP but the clerkship director did not change the grade. I can pursue it further via grievance but the decision ultimately is with them at my school, and I’ve been told it’s unlikely to amount to anything 🙁

My clinical evaluations otherwise have been strong so far - mostly in the top 5% or top 25% categories, both considered above average. The repeat is required because I missed too much clinical time during the health episode. In the failed clerkship, for the rotations I received grades on, I also had strong performance when present. But the absence limit for the block was exceeded (even if they’re all excused) and I was not allowed to make up the missed days I believe due to issues with scheduling all of the make-up time. So, I received a fail grade and need to repeat the block again. I’m wondering how this context would matter or if it would even be considered if my performance remains strong.

Anyone experienced this or know someone that had this happen? I’ve worked so hard to build my application thus far to apply to a competitive specialty I've been interested in and I feel heartbroken that this basically ends that goal

 

[wysdoc]

If I have a failed grade for a block/clerkship but it is because of absences related to illness, are my chances for competitive specialties (like surgical subspecialties) basically zero, regardless of the reason? I’ve tried to appeal the grade and have showed medical documentation from my PCP but the clerkship director did not change the grade. I can pursue it further via grievance but the decision ultimately is with them at my school, and I’ve been told it’s unlikely to amount to anything 🙁

My clinical grades are otherwise very good so far. Even in this clerkship for the rotations I received grades on I had strong performance when present. But the absence limit was exceeded (even if they’re all excused) and I was not allowed to make up the missed days. So I received a fail grade and need to repeat the block again. I’m wondering how this context would matter or if it would even be considered if my performance remains strong.

Anyone experienced this or know someone that had this happen? I’ve worked so, so hard to build my application thus far to apply to a competitive specialty I've been interested in and I feel heartbroken that this basically ends that goal

When repeating that block you will have to be at your best, even if it ends up being at a different rotation site.
It will cost you in the long run one elective/selective rotation you might have done, as well as a short space on your residency apps to explain the F due to too many missed days for medical reasons.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There's really no way to know. You'll need to apply and see what happens.

In retrospect, it's clear you should have talked to your school and withdrawn from the clerkship. They are unlikely to change their policy for you -- if they do, then they need to do so for all. The concept of "excused" absence is a slippery slope for admins. It's much safer for them to have a limit on absences regardless of cause.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunately, I agree with @NotAProgDirector . The school cannot change their policy just for you, not only because it isn't fair to other students but also because a large part of medical training is the experiential part--if you aren't there, you aren't getting the required training. This is how residency works too, if you miss more than a certain number of days even if excused, then you need to extend your training.

Impossible to say how much this will hurt your residency app for something as competitive as neurosurgery. On the one hand, none of the other applicants will have that on their app. On the other hand, it sticks out like such a sore thumb on your otherwise strong app that they might listen to your explanation. Suspect your best shots will be at your home program and wherever you do aways, where they can see your work ethic first hand and hear your explanation. But all you can do is apply and see.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunately, I agree with @NotAProgDirector . The school cannot change their policy just for you, not only because it isn't fair to other students but also because a large part of medical training is the experiential part--if you aren't there, you aren't getting the required training. This is how residency works too, if you miss more than a certain number of days even if excused, then you need to extend your training.

Impossible to say how much this will hurt your residency app for something as competitive as neurosurgery. On the one hand, none of the other applicants will have that on their app. On the other hand, it sticks out like such a sore thumb on your otherwise strong app that they might listen to your explanation. Suspect your best shots will be at your home program and wherever you do aways, where they can see your work ethic first hand and hear your explanation. But all you can do is apply and see.

One thought that is wild speculation and may not be possible at your school, but you could see if there is any allowance for changing your F to an incomplete or a retroactive withdrawal. Obviously it’s not something where you just didn’t show up because you were being truant, so it would be unfortunate if the only option is to actually fail you. But I can't guess what the policy is at your school--so you just need to ask and explore if there is any other recourse

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Man, some schools really hate their students. Stuff like this would be an incomplete at mine. They'd just schedule you over a few weekends or over half a M4 block or something to make it up.

 

[operaman]

As always, devil is in the details. You’re not DOA for competitive fields but you’ve got some work to do:

1) which clerkship? If surgery or medicine, not good. If psych or peds, not as bad.

2) performance on the retake will be critical, really need to ace everything.

3) if you can’t get a retroactive withdrawal but do well on the repeat, you can also ask the school to note the reasons for your failure on the mspe and follow that with your strong performance and glowing evals on the retake.

4) the details of the medical issue matter. When said vaguely everyone assumes it was a mental health issue. Tough clerkship and mental health issue will look like your couldn’t cope when the going got tough and that will get you dinged from surgical subs. But now if you got mono or a bad case of the flu and missed one too many days, that doesn’t look so bad because it’s less likely to happen again. So if not mental, be specific when you apply. If mental, keep it vague and cross your fingers.

5) really gun for your home program. By far the most likely group to overlook a red flag if they know you and like you.

 

[astudentslawyer]

Did you attempt to receive accommodations such as if it was for a disability or chronic illness?

 

[FortuneDoesntFavorFools]

When repeating that block you will have to be at your best, even if it ends up being at a different rotation site.
It will cost you in the long run one elective/selective rotation you might have done, as well as a short space on your residency apps to explain the F due to too many missed days for medical reasons.

There's really no way to know. You'll need to apply and see what happens.

In retrospect, it's clear you should have talked to your school and withdrawn from the clerkship. They are unlikely to change their policy for you -- if they do, then they need to do so for all. The concept of "excused" absence is a slippery slope for admins. It's much safer for them to have a limit on absences regardless of cause.

Unfortunately, I agree with @NotAProgDirector . The school cannot change their policy just for you, not only because it isn't fair to other students but also because a large part of medical training is the experiential part--if you aren't there, you aren't getting the required training. This is how residency works too, if you miss more than a certain number of days even if excused, then you need to extend your training.

Impossible to say how much this will hurt your residency app for something as competitive as neurosurgery. On the one hand, none of the other applicants will have that on their app. On the other hand, it sticks out like such a sore thumb on your otherwise strong app that they might listen to your explanation. Suspect your best shots will be at your home program and wherever you do aways, where they can see your work ethic first hand and hear your explanation. But all you can do is apply and see.

Man, some schools really hate their students. Stuff like this would be an incomplete at mine. They'd just schedule you over a few weekends or over half a M4 block or something to make it up.

As always, devil is in the details. You’re not DOA for competitive fields but you’ve got some work to do:

1) which clerkship? If surgery or medicine, not good. If psych or peds, not as bad.

2) performance on the retake will be critical, really need to ace everything.

3) if you can’t get a retroactive withdrawal but do well on the repeat, you can also ask the school to note the reasons for your failure on the mspe and follow that with your strong performance and glowing evals on the retake.

4) the details of the medical issue matter. When said vaguely everyone assumes it was a mental health issue. Tough clerkship and mental health issue will look like your couldn’t cope when the going got tough and that will get you dinged from surgical subs. But now if you got mono or a bad case of the flu and missed one too many days, that doesn’t look so bad because it’s less likely to happen again. So if not mental, be specific when you apply. If mental, keep it vague and cross your fingers.

5) really gun for your home program. By far the most likely group to overlook a red flag if they know you and like you.

Did you attempt to receive accommodations such as if it was for a disability or chronic illness?

Update: I fought this to the end, was able to be granted an official hearing (apparently very rarely happens), and I won my appeal! Graduation still delayed but no more failed grade, its now gonna be listed as a drop. Thanks for your responses 😀

 

[astudentslawyer]

Update: I fought this to the end, was able to be granted an official hearing (apparently very rarely happens), and I won my appeal! Graduation still delayed but no more failed grade, its now gonna be listed as a drop. Thanks for your responses 😀

congrats, what do you think you did that lead to the appeal being granted vs not being granted?