Failed Step 1 Twice

[Medstudent4243]

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I repeated my 2nd year of medical school and failed step 1 twice and passed on my 3rd try with a 207. I am interested in Emergency medicine. I go to a medical school here in the USA. Is there any EM residency program that will look at me now?
Thanks

 

[John146]

No

 

[RustedFox]

Hate to say it, but crabby there is right.

 

[Rendar5]

Unfortunately it's getting more and more competitive each year...I'd hate to be applying now.

 

[dotcb]

Major red flag. Sorry - you probably won't match in EM.

 

[vistaril]

I repeated my 2nd year of medical school and failed step 1 twice and passed on my 3rd try with a 207. I am interested in Emergency medicine. I go to a medical school here in the USA. Is there any EM residency program that will look at me now?
Thanks

not only is EM not a possibility, you're going to have to really hustle(and apply to massive numbers of programs) to have a good shot to match in a less competitive program in one of the least competitive fields(fm, psych),,,,you have THREE red flags. That's a lot. And your med school career isn't even over yet...

 

[swamprat]

What if someone failed CS? Just curious, I heard of someone from my school that didn't match and failed CS, or so rumor has it. Took it a few weeks back anxiously waiting on results didn't feel like I did too great missed a lot of things.

 

[vistaril]

What if someone failed CS? Just curious, I heard of someone from my school that didn't match and failed CS, or so rumor has it. Took it a few weeks back anxiously waiting on results didn't feel like I did too great missed a lot of things.

it certainly wouldn't be a positive. If anything the program would probably wonder wtf is wrong with someone that fails such a silly exam that is more about basic preparation than any clinical skills or knowledge.

But it wouldnt be nearly on the same level as failing step 1. Also, I think many people get cs scores after programs must submit rank lists anyways

 

[Mudpile MD]

I'm with Vistaril. If I was a PD I would have a hard time considering someone who failed a test as easy as CS. I'd be more worried about them than someone who failed step 1 by a small margin, then worked hard, repeated, and got a good score.

 

[swamprat]

I'm with Vistaril. If I was a PD I would have a hard time considering someone who failed a test as easy as CS. I'd be more worried about them than someone who failed step 1 by a small margin, then worked hard, repeated, and got a good score.

Rlly? Hypothetically speaking Even with a stp 1 in the 250s honors in third year and good slors?

 

[winkleweizen]

Rlly? Hypothetically speaking Even with a stp 1 in the 250s honors in third year and good slors?

Ehh 1 you didnt fail...2, a fail on CS wont kill you. I think most PDs know its a ridiculous test and that people blow it off.

If you have all your other ducks in a row, I think failing CS and a match in EM is still possible.

 

[gman33]

Have a friend who failed CS who matched. Nothing special about the rest of his app.

Now failing Step 1 x 2, plus a repeat of a year of med school...
Will have a tough time matching in anything.
If you want to try for EM, apply to every program.
Maybe someone will give you an interview.

You will need to have a very broad application strategy for less competitive fields as well.
Like FM and apply to 100 programs.

Find a very good advisor at your school.

 

[Textbookversion]

I'm with Vistaril. If I was a PD I would have a hard time considering someone who failed a test as easy as CS. I'd be more worried about them than someone who failed step 1 by a small margin, then worked hard, repeated, and got a good score.

Idk they upped the fail threshold on CS in January to double the number of US grads failing after that NEJM article came out. Seems pretty arbitrary, and if they set it at a threshold level of a certain # having to fail so they can keep charging $$ somebody has to be the unlucky person.

 

[deleted547339]

CS is a joke. I'm pretty sure so long as you don't solicit your SP for sex, urinate on them and curse at them in more than one language, you're fine. Even still, they seem to have an arbitrary fail rate. A long time ago I read that the people who fail CS and retake it have something like >85% pass rate or something crazy that takes away further from the validity of an already borderline exam. My friends and I always joked that you'd be less upset about getting robbed to the tune of $1,200 if you just considered it a very, very overpriced lunch.

**********$1,200 SCAM**********

 

[BADMD]

I repeated my 2nd year of medical school and failed step 1 twice and passed on my 3rd try with a 207. I am interested in Emergency medicine. I go to a medical school here in the USA. Is there any EM residency program that will look at me now?
Thanks

You will have a very difficult time matching into EM without destroying Step II and having a solvable, temporary problem with the preclinical years in school. Even then, you might get weeded out by your step score alone.

Programs are getting a massive number of applications and the number is growing yearly. Even a program that interviews a huge number of applicants can't interview more than a quarter.

Have a back up plan.

 

[NightNight]

Failed Step 1 twice? Sounds like you could have been a top notch NP!

Ahh, I kid. That's a bummer, keep your head up.

 

[Transmogrifier]

I knew of someone who failed CS who was otherwise an all around very good student. I think it comes down to blowing it off and not knowing the little specifics of the things they want you to do. Or, you can't speak English worth a damn.

 

[yukonho]

You will have a very difficult time matching into EM without destroying Step II and having a solvable, temporary problem with the preclinical years in school. Even then, you might get weeded out by your step score alone.

Programs are getting a massive number of applications and the number is growing yearly. Even a program that interviews a huge number of applicants can't interview more than a quarter.

Have a back up plan.

Look OP, I scored very well my boards and still did not match. I wish that I was advised to rank backups (prelim surg and medicine, and a few cat medicine would have been good for me). There are people in my class that are great applicants who did not match in EM, and they had to SOAP. A few were not able to find positions in the SOAP, and found themselves in a really sticky position (not sure why it's hard for EM and anesthesia to SOAP, but it looks like it was this year).

Things are getting harder for everyone, especially for EM people. You must rank backups. For you personally, I agree with one of the other posters that you may need to rank a good number of IM/FM spots to match there. You could always do a year of IM and then get into EM.

Good luck!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I'd start worrying less about matching and more about graduating. You're doing something VERY, VERY wrong. You need to figure out what it is and fix it pronto.

I don't know what it is, but I'd bet you do. Perhaps you're not studying enough. Perhaps you're not studying effectively. Perhaps you have untreated ADHD. Maybe you have an alcohol problem. Perhaps you need to learn some test-taking skills. I have no idea. Doctors aren't the smartest folks in the world, but they're not the dumbest. If you're not at least at a certain minimum level of intelligence that could be an issue as well. It's not like you just had a bad day. You failed an entire year of medical school. You failed the test that tests you on what you learned in the first two years of medical school....twice. Would you want your family member taken care of by someone with your credentials?

Fix the problem or find a new career.

 

[RustedFox]

Things are getting harder for everyone, especially for EM people. You must rank backups. For you personally, I agree with one of the other posters that you may need to rank a good number of IM/FM spots to match there. You could always do a year of IM and then get into EM.

I wouldn't count on that.

 

[spelledout]

i think everyone is right in saying that it would be very difficult to make it into EM.

But I don't think that means you shouldn't try - if it is what you absolutely want. Why are you considering EM as a specialty? Think long and hard about that and if you can't see yourself doing anything else then don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. You'll still have an uphill battle but there are things that you can do to give yourself a chance. The biggest thing I would suggest is to network. Go to EM conferences and meet some program directors and talk to them, show them that you are more than just your step score. Try to do some aways at community programs and work hard, smile, be willing to learn. The biggest priority is going to be doing well on your mandatory curriculum, but if you can find other activities (EM-related research, other extra-curriculars) in which you can make yourself stand out while still doing well, then do them.

You'll have to apply broadly (read: everywhere) and will not hear back from most big name places. If it's what you want, though, don't let it stop you.

good luck

 

[EM2013]

You should try to become besties with your home program. Since they will know you the best (and since is reflects very poorly on your school if you do not match anywhere) you may have a fighting shot if you honor most of your rotations and substantially improve on CK (easier said than done).

 

[yukonho]

I wouldn't count on that.

Yeah nothing is a sure thing, but I think the odds would be better after proving ones self as a resident. Assuming one had the support of the IM program director.

 

[StevieStud]

You should try to become besties with your home program. Since they will know you the best (and since is reflects very poorly on your school if you do not match anywhere) you may have a fighting shot if you honor most of your rotations and substantially improve on CK (easier said than done).

Politics.

It will take somebody at your home program hand walking your application through the process and making sure you get an interview and ultimately on the match list... it doesn't mean you will match but it is does give you a fighting chance

Unfortunately there are very few people at any institution

A) capable of doing do what I just described

much less

B) willing to stick their neck out for a med student with a weak track record and multiple red flags.

That said, start making nice with everybody you meet. Be the guy that everybody in the system wants to see them succeed.

This is not brown-nosing. It is asking for help in an appropriate way. Staying after school so to speak to improve your x, y or z skills. Taking the crap assignments while holding your head held up high. Fecal impactions become your specialty. And most importantly, no sluffing off on the OB or Surg rotations because you never know who will become your friend.

 

[Arcan57]

I think a lot of the posters are giving well meaning advice that is worse than useless. Someone with a failed year of med school and 2 Step I fails is not matching into emergency medicine from med school. I'd be somewhat shocked if that person got an interview anywhere other than their home institute even with applying to every program in the country and that would be as a courtesy.

The OP needs to work extremely hard to make it seem that they are matchable in any specialty and is going to be significantly better off buffing their CV with FP, psych, or PM&R credentials than trying to get into EM (would you encourage the fantasies of someone with a 210s Step of matching into neurosurg or optho?). If the OP is deadset on EM, their best chance is going to be to rock their first residency and try to switch late in residency (senior year) or after completing a residency.

 

[dotcb]

I advise medical students going into EM at a medical school. Agree - I think applying in EM would be a waste of time and money for you.

 

[KarlPilkington]

I also advise medical students at a program with an EM residency. I've also seen what can happen when a "less competitive" applicant is given a spot over other stronger applicants...it rarely works out well.

- You need a really good story as to why you've had so much trouble in medical school. Maybe you had cancer/addiction/family issues/ alien abduction... you must be able to explain why you have such a hard time to this point, and it needs to be a really good story.

-You must ace the rest of medical school including Step II.

- Even if you match into prelim surgery or medicine, its going to be nearly impossible to match into EM after an intern year. Your board scores matter. It took you several attempts to get a below average score. We all want our residents to pass the boards, if you've had this much trouble passing the first of many boards, no amount of intern level excellence is going to convince folks that you're able to pass the EM boards. I'm not being a jerk, but if I give you a spot, and you fail the EM boards, that hurts my program for a long time.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. If you have a great story to explain all of your struggles, and you turn things around in your last half of medical school and ace Step II, by all means apply to EM, as some folks may give you a chance, but its a tight race for those residency spots and getting tighter.

 

[EMME]

CS is a joke. I'm pretty sure so long as you don't solicit your SP for sex, urinate on them and curse at them in more than one language, you're fine. Even still, they seem to have an arbitrary fail rate. A long time ago I read that the people who fail CS and retake it have something like >85% pass rate or something crazy that takes away further from the validity of an already borderline exam. My friends and I always joked that you'd be less upset about getting robbed to the tune of $1,200 if you just considered it a very, very overpriced lunch.

**********$1,200 SCAM**********

Agree

 

[RustedFox]

CS is a joke. I'm pretty sure so long as you don't solicit your SP for sex, urinate on them and curse at them in more than one language, you're fine. Even still, they seem to have an arbitrary fail rate. A long time ago I read that the people who fail CS and retake it have something like >85% pass rate or something crazy that takes away further from the validity of an already borderline exam. My friends and I always joked that you'd be less upset about getting robbed to the tune of $1,200 if you just considered it a very, very overpriced lunch.

**********$1,200 SCAM**********

One of my buddies asked me (immediately after I was finished with CS), in typical, hurried - "OMGhowWASit?!" fashion what I thought about CS. I said - "That'll be 1200 USD, thank you, please drive-thru."

 

[leorl]

Would be very difficult, but not impossible. I know someone who failed step 1 twice, who matched into EM this year. Besides the step 1, everything else in the cv is exemplary. Groomed for research (multiple papers since undergrad) + already has an MPH that is backed up with very meaningful international and national public health projects (not one of those flimsy ones that claim a lot of international work). What sealed the deal was that this person was given an opportunity to see several patients and present to multiple faculty in the 2 days that he/she shadowed in the ED. Floored each of those attendings, including the PD and the vice chair for academics. Showed that despite the poor Step 1, she/he was very clinically competent already before starting intern year.

This is an exceptional story and not the norm, but if you can show people via rotation or in this case even just shadowing that you are very strong, the selection team may be willing to overlook your scores.

Also, it depends on how programs set their filter. If they set their filter to be like 215, then you won't be filtered through. Some programs set failing step 1 as a filter as well. The above person got through the filter because the program had not filtered (probably by accident) those who had failed any of the steps, and the actual score on the passed step one was high enough to get through the filter.

 

[Mudpile MD]

I knew of someone who failed CS who was otherwise an all around very good student. I think it comes down to blowing it off and not knowing the little specifics of the things they want you to do. Or, you can't speak English worth a damn.

Precisely my point. If you don't care enough to put in the 10 minutes of work needed to learn what you need to know to pass this $1200 test, than I wouldn't want you in my program.

 

[DoctorMedic]

Look OP, I scored very well my boards and still did not match. I wish that I was advised to rank backups (prelim surg and medicine, and a few cat medicine would have been good for me). There are people in my class that are great applicants who did not match in EM, and they had to SOAP. A few were not able to find positions in the SOAP, and found themselves in a really sticky position (not sure why it's hard for EM and anesthesia to SOAP, but it looks like it was this year).

Things are getting harder for everyone, especially for EM people. You must rank backups. For you personally, I agree with one of the other posters that you may need to rank a good number of IM/FM spots to match there. You could always do a year of IM and then get into EM.

Good luck!

It is so hard because EM basically filled this year and filled last year. The only 3 spots open after match day were 2 Saudi Arabian spots and 1 EM spot in NJ at a new program that didn't go through the match as they were only approved by ACGME in February just after ROL was due but they still filled 11/12 pre-match and the last in the SOAP.

I think a lot of the posters are giving well meaning advice that is worse than useless. Someone with a failed year of med school and 2 Step I fails is not matching into emergency medicine from med school. I'd be somewhat shocked if that person got an interview anywhere other than their home institute even with applying to every program in the country and that would be as a courtesy.

The OP needs to work extremely hard to make it seem that they are matchable in any specialty and is going to be significantly better off buffing their CV with FP, psych, or PM&R credentials than trying to get into EM (would you encourage the fantasies of someone with a 210s Step of matching into neurosurg or optho?). If the OP is deadset on EM, their best chance is going to be to rock their first residency and try to switch late in residency (senior year) or after completing a residency.

Directly from a PD and aPD "We don't like transfers especially out of categorical programs because we don't want to screw anyone". I know a lot of PD don't like this and it makes the applicant look bad to leave a categorical hanging like that. Also making plans to leave at the end of senior year is impossible as they would have to start applying at the start of senior year and interview. Lastly, doing a second residency is almost more difficult with funding issues based on what the length of the initial residency. I don't see this happening any more than a transitional or prelim preferably at a place that has a program they could match into and use those as backups.

 

[Arcan57]

A prelim or transition year is still going to run into the problem of not having worked enough clinically to wash off the stench of failure prior to hitting the interview trail. In regards to swapping categoricals, I know people who have swapped into EM in their 2nd or third year of training and the funding issue is by no means an absolute red flag (it's going to vary by program and level of resources). I'm not saying either is a sure thing (anything is a long shot for the OP) but EM after FM is probably the OP's most realistic option for getting into EM training.

 

[DoctorMedic]

A prelim or transition year is still going to run into the problem of not having worked enough clinically to wash off the stench of failure prior to hitting the interview trail. In regards to swapping categoricals, I know people who have swapped into EM in their 2nd or third year of training and the funding issue is by no means an absolute red flag (it's going to vary by program and level of resources). I'm not saying either is a sure thing (anything is a long shot for the OP) but EM after FM is probably the OP's most realistic option for getting into EM training.

My understanding was it's better to try to do an EM shift early at a home institution as transitional/pre-lim than to start a categorical program where you're locked in potentially for 3 years and screwing another program over by leaving.

 

[Arcan57]

My understanding was it's better to try to do an EM shift early at a home institution as transitional/pre-lim than to start a categorical program where you're locked in potentially for 3 years and screwing another program over by leaving.

If you're an average candidate that failed in your matching strategy (ranked too few, only ranked highly competitive programs) then trying to pick up from a transitional/prelim spot isn't a horrible choice. That's not the OP's situation. Getting an intra-institutional spot would be ideal but you're going to be betting on a spot being open and not having someone more qualified also going after it. The OP needs to focus on finding a residency spot that will leave them board-eligible. And to be clear, finishing a program then re-applying for EM has a better likelihood of success than swapping from one categorical into EM late in this case.

 

[dotcb]

For the OP I would recommend possibly family medicine - that way you may either later do EM residency after FM, or practice EM rurally as a family physician.

You need a path to board certification in something, and it's prolly not gonna be EM first time around. 6 months doing well in a prelim spot isn't going to undo the problems you had.

 

[NinerNiner999]

http://www.nbitruckdrivertraining.com/

 

[Cinclus]

Guys, the thread is almost 7 years old.

 

[Angry Birds]

Guys, the thread is almost 7 years old.

Seven years out and you really don't stand a chance ... that's too large a gap.

 

[deuist]

So why did you bump it?

 

[Modstopizdy]

Guys, the thread is almost 7 years old.

That's an excellent point. I bet there are other 7 year old threads out there as well, who is going to bump THOSE?

As for OP, legend has it he failed out of medical school and later made a fortune in IT sales. He was last seen cruising off the Copacabana in his 60ft yacht in the company of 3 beautiful senoritas.