Failed Step 2 CK. What should I do?

[Psychiatricks]

Please refrain from "just give up" as advice. I know that the odds are against me. This is something that I'm very passionate about and I'm willing to do what I can. I'm ready to fight. I am an US IMG (didn't graduate as yet). Question: Retake step 2 ck, take step 2 CS and apply to match 2019 or Do not apply to match this year, retake/take step 2 exams but also take Step 3 and try for 2020?

Step 1: 20*
Step 2 CK: Fail
Step CS: Not taken yet.

I went to med school to become a psychiatrist. Point Blank. I have multiple years of employment in psych/mental health, publication and pending publications, poster presentations, countless hours of volunteering and participation in multiple extracurricular movements and activities. I considered myself an overachiever and found it rewarding to get more involved so I was always looking for opportunities.

My Step 1 score broke my heart, I studied so hard but I was also a research assistant and my mother was diagnosed with cancer at the time . After that depression, I pulled myself up and told myself that I just had to work harder for Step 2.

Step 2 CK: I studied hard and failed by 2 points. I'm looking back on my patterns and noticed that every time that I studied for a step exam, that I was juggling other things. For example, while studying for step 2, I worked/still working part time in the psych hospital, while doing my clinical rotations.

Now I'm thinking that being so ambitious made me bite more than I can chew and that it may have contributed to not studying properly? And that I obviously have to change my study habits in general.

Should I still apply for match 2019? Will having a passing Step 3 score be better meaning to wait until 2020? I know that it's easy to give up at this point but I see myself as a psychiatrist working for the under-served and I will do whatever I can to fight for that dream.

Any advice is appreciated.

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[rokshana]

Please refrain from "just give up" as advice. I know that the odds are against me. This is something that I'm very passionate about and I'm willing to do what I can. I'm ready to fight. I am an US IMG (didn't graduate as yet). Question: Retake step 2 ck, take step 2 CS and apply to match 2019 or Do not apply to match this year, retake/take step 2 exams but also take Step 3 and try for 2020?

Step 1: 204
Step 2 CK: Fail
Step CS: Not taken yet.

I went to med school to become a psychiatrist. Point Blank. I have multiple years of employment in psych/mental health, publication and pending publications, poster presentations, countless hours of volunteering and participation in multiple extracurricular movements and activities. I considered myself an overachiever and found it rewarding to get more involved so I was always looking for opportunities.

My Step 1 score broke my heart, I studied so hard but I was also a research assistant and my mother was diagnosed with cancer at the time . After that depression, I pulled myself up and told myself that I just had to work harder for Step 2.

Step 2 CK: I studied hard and failed by 2 points. I'm looking back on my patterns and noticed that every time that I studied for a step exam, that I was juggling other things. For example, while studying for step 2, I worked/still working part time in the psych hospital, while doing my clinical rotations.

Now I'm thinking that being so ambitious made me bite more than I can chew and that it may have contributed to not studying properly? And that I obviously have to change my study habits in general.

Should I still apply for match 2019? Will having a passing Step 3 score be better meaning to wait until 2020? I know that it's easy to give up at this point but I see myself as a psychiatrist working for the under-served and I will do whatever I can to fight for that dream.

Any advice is appreciated.

its not a "might" or "may" contributed...you need to focus on what is important...and that is getting a high score on the next time you take CK and pass CS on the first time.
stop the extracurricular actives and be a med student...that is your job...no amount of EC and part time work is going to overcome the poor step I score and the failed CK, period.

part of the problem is you are overconfident...and the fact that you are an IMG didn't make you scared...and you need to be...it needs to motivate you do better...because if you don't, you will be an MD that can't practice in the US. Its not even about telling you to give up, you won't have anything to give up.

You need to take time off to take a review course like PASS or Kaplan...do NOT depend on doing this as self study, because what you did on your own did not work. You need to not pass by 2 points...need to get much higher than the average to prove to people that your low score on Step 1 and your failure on CK is no longer an issue...that you have taken ownership of your poor test taking skills and fixed the problem. THAT is what people want to see, not excuses to why you didn't perform well.

And for God's sake, don't fail CS...that will be the kiss of death for your application.

 

[Psychiatricks]

Hey Psychiatricks

You cant give up now

Retake CK and apply to all FM and Psych programs

Do electives at uncompetitive spots and gain favor with the staff

It will be tough, but I think Caribs can typically match FM with 1 failure

Good luck!

Thank you for your feedback! Do think that I should still apply to FM when my research, EC and everything screams psych?

 

[Psychiatricks]

its not a "might" or "may" contributed...you need to focus on what is important...and that is getting a high score on the next time you take CK and pass CS on the first time.
stop the extracurricular actives and be a med student...that is your job...no amount of EC and part time work is going to overcome the poor step I score and the failed CK, period.

part of the problem is you are overconfident...and the fact that you are an IMG didn't make you scared...and you need to be...it needs to motivate you do better...because if you don't, you will be an MD that can't practice in the US. Its not even about telling you to give up, you won't have anything to give up.

You need to take time off to take a review course like PASS or Kaplan...do NOT depend on doing this as self study, because what you did on your own did not work. You need to not pass by 2 points...need to get much higher than the average to prove to people that your low score on Step 1 and your failure on CK is no longer an issue...that you have taken ownership of your poor test taking skills and fixed the problem. THAT is what people want to see, not excuses to why you didn't perform well.

And for God's sake, don't fail CS...that will be the kiss of death for your application.

I'm not overconfident at all, my low scores speak for themselves. I just don't want people telling me to give up when I'm willing to fight or else Ill get depressed. But thank you for feedback. I am thinking of 1 on 1 tutoring even though it may be expensive, if I'm going to have any chance at residency then I need to get an awesome score like you said. Hopefully it will show them that I am determined and can learn from my mistakes. I'm really hoping the EC and part time work can help show the dedication at least.

Do you have any recommendations on 1 on 1 tutoring? Thanks again.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not overconfident at all, my low scores speak for themselves. I just don't want people telling me to give up when I'm willing to fight or else Ill get depressed. But thank you for feedback. I am thinking of 1 on 1 tutoring even though it may be expensive, if I'm going to have any chance at residency then I need to get an awesome score like you said. Hopefully it will show them that I am determined and can learn from my mistakes. I'm really hoping the EC and part time work can help show the dedication at least.

Do you have any recommendations on 1 on 1 tutoring? Thanks again.

It will do nothing of the sort. It’s fine if you do well on exams but otherwise it looks like you werent taking them (exams) seriously.

 

[rokshana]

I'm not overconfident at all, my low scores speak for themselves. I just don't want people telling me to give up when I'm willing to fight or else Ill get depressed. But thank you for feedback. I am thinking of 1 on 1 tutoring even though it may be expensive, if I'm going to have any chance at residency then I need to get an awesome score like you said. Hopefully it will show them that I am determined and can learn from my mistakes. I'm really hoping the EC and part time work can help show the dedication at least.

Do you have any recommendations on 1 on 1 tutoring? Thanks again.

No, frankly, the EC and part time work with resulting low and failed Step scores demonstrates to me that you have poor judgement about what you are capable of doing, or managing your time appropriately...as WS states above, those things can help a good candidate but it would bring up a poor candidate for consideration.

As for 1:1 tutoring...don't reinvent the wheel...there are good programs out there that help people with passing their steps.

USMLE Step 2 Information

they focus on those that have failed and help to fix the problems that you are having...apparently they have an on demand program so if you can't go to the course, that could be an option, but again that is going to require motivation from you to do it...going to the course at least takes that responsibility out of your hands. Also going to something like this will demonstrate to PDs that you did take the failure seriously and actively did something about it...you CANNOT afford to fail a second time and really cannot afford to get anything below say, 250 or 260..ideally you should be aiming to have a score 2 sd over the average.

 

[rokshana]

I'm an MS3, so I don't have too much advice for CK

For step 1 I did 95% questions, 5 % content review, so maybe do more questions?

I'd say FM is your best shot, I'd do another FM elective and tailor your CV towards FM

psych is not that competitive, so if he applies widely, he should be able to get something, but not upper tier programs or in desirable locations.

 

[BoardingDoc]

psych is not that competitive, so if he applies widely, he should be able to get something, but not upper tier programs or in desirable locations.

If he repeats step 2 CK and kills it, maybe. His step 1 score gives a 70% chance of not matching, and his current Step 2 score cohort had a 91% failure to match rate.

 

[GoSpursGo]

psych is not that competitive, so if he applies widely, he should be able to get something, but not upper tier programs or in desirable locations.

This is becoming much less true. Psych has become increasingly competitive in the last few years.

As the poster above showed from charting outcomes, your odds of matching with either your low step 1 score (~30%) or ck failure (<10%) would be poor, let alone with both marks against you. If you want to keep going anyways knowing the numbers, that's your call and your money. But you need to at least be realistic--there is a real chance that you throw your self into this, do everything right, pass ck with a decent score and still not match.

As an IMG, this is a numbers game. Your ECs are literally irrelevant--a lot of residencies won't ever even see them because your app is going to be filtered out by a step 1 score below their cutoff or a CK failure. So you need to stop everything that you are doing that isn't studying for step 2. If you can pull a decent score there you at least stand a chance of being in the lucky 10% to match.

Personally I don't think you have time to re-take step 2 and apply this year. I would wait until 2020 and also do step 3. If you can delay your graduation, even better. And please apply to FM too. Yes it will look a little weird with your ECs but you need to cast a very wide net.

 

[Psychiatricks]

It will do nothing of the sort. It’s fine if you do well on exams but otherwise it looks like you werent taking them (exams) seriously.

I had no idea, I needed some income to help me pay my interest on loans and such, so I figured having a psych job would look good on my resume but now i see how it could look bad.

 

[Psychiatricks]

they focus on those that have failed and help to fix the problems that you are having...apparently they have an on demand program so if you can't go to the course, that could be an option, but again that is going to require motivation from you to do it...going to the course at least takes that responsibility out of your hands. Also going to something like this will demonstrate to PDs that you did take the failure seriously and actively did something about it...you CANNOT afford to fail a second time and really cannot afford to get anything below say, 250 or 260..ideally you should be aiming to have a score 2 sd over the average.

the reason why I'm considering tutoring is because i believe that I need a different approach to answering questions. A different method all together. My step scores end up way lower than my Uworld assesments, NBME practice tests. For reason when it comes to the real deal its nothing like my practice scores. I know that anxiety takes a roll but right now I'm willing to try anything.

 

[Psychiatricks]

This is becoming much less true. Psych has become increasingly competitive in the last few years.

As the poster above showed from charting outcomes, your odds of matching with either your low step 1 score (~30%) or ck failure (<10%) would be poor, let alone with both marks against you. If you want to keep going anyways knowing the numbers, that's your call and your money. But you need to at least be realistic--there is a real chance that you throw your self into this, do everything right, pass ck with a decent score and still not match.

As an IMG, this is a numbers game. Your ECs are literally irrelevant--a lot of residencies won't ever even see them because your app is going to be filtered out by a step 1 score below their cutoff or a CK failure. So you need to stop everything that you are doing that isn't studying for step 2. If you can pull a decent score there you at least stand a chance of being in the lucky 10% to match.

Personally I don't think you have time to re-take step 2 and apply this year. I would wait until 2020 and also do step 3. If you can delay your graduation, even better. And please apply to FM too. Yes it will look a little weird with your ECs but you need to cast a very wide net.

I can delay graduating but could you please clarify why and until when? I've heard people say this but I get confused as to why.

The only reason I have a bit of hope is because I have showed extreme favor to one particular program that I'm very interested in.

I did a lot of electives at a psych prematch program in an under-served area, i also did/still doing research with them and was offered to do an observer-ship type thing after I graduate to work along side the residents, see patients and help write progress notes. I'm trying to see if I could meet with the PD of the program to honestly talk about my situation to see if I could still qualify for a courtesy interview with all the dedication to the program. Online it says that they "accept 1 step attempt" so I think realistically talking to the PD about this (to find out how true it is) is my best bet. (and in worse case scenario I'm hoping they overlook the attempt and grant an interview because of the dedication shown to the program). So far the chief resident told me that Step 3 is a must and to "stick" with him and the other chief resident.

Right now I'm thinking this: If I stay with the program, do the "observership", continue research with them (after i fix my scores of course), If I improve my step 2 score by 40 points and pass my Step 3. I am saying: "Look, I am dedicated to this program i feel like I'm already a part of the family (which I do), I noticed my weaknesses and bust my ass to overcome it and I also have Step 3 out of the way and ready to go."

I'm so nervous about reaching out to the PD, but you gotta do what you gotta do. What do you think of my game plan? Do you still think I should expand to FM for back up. If so, I definitely will!

 

[togaedere]

You should delay graduating by a year because it’s much easier to apply as a med student than as a graduated student. If you have graduated, you no longer have institutional backing, there are insurance complications limiting you from being able to examine patients, etc, limiting your experiences to shadowing instead of true clinical experiences. This may be less relevant in psychiatry but it severely limits what experience you are able to obtain during observerships. That is, if you spend a year just shadowing, not able to examine patients, then programs are not going to count that as clinical experience. Not entirely sure how psychiatry programs find this, though. I have a feeling though that they care, because a large part of intern year involves clinical medicine on off service rotations.

The thing that makes me nervous for you is that you’re basically putting all your eggs in the one basket of this program. You should do everything in your power to match at this point and take nothing for granted. This is not limited to applying to both family medicine and psychiatry (and to a ton of programs) but also includes doing everything you say below in terms of reaching out to the program you have an established relationship with and passing every exam from here on out.

I can delay graduating but could you please clarify why and until when? I've heard people say this but I get confused as to why.

The only reason I have a bit of hope is because I have showed extreme favor to one particular program that I'm very interested in.

I did a lot of electives at a psych prematch program in an under-served area, i also did/still doing research with them and was offered to do an observer-ship type thing after I graduate to work along side the residents, see patients and help write progress notes. I'm trying to see if I could meet with the PD of the program to honestly talk about my situation to see if I could still qualify for a courtesy interview with all the dedication to the program. Online it says that they "accept 1 step attempt" so I think realistically talking to the PD about this (to find out how true it is) is my best bet. (and in worse case scenario I'm hoping they overlook the attempt and grant an interview because of the dedication shown to the program). So far the chief resident told me that Step 3 is a must and to "stick" with him and the other chief resident.

Right now I'm thinking this: If I stay with the program, do the "observership", continue research with them (after i fix my scores of course), If I improve my step 2 score by 40 points and pass my Step 3. I am saying: "Look, I am dedicated to this program i feel like I'm already a part of the family (which I do), I noticed my weaknesses and bust my ass to overcome it and I also have Step 3 out of the way and ready to go."

I'm so nervous about reaching out to the PD, but you gotta do what you gotta do. What do you think of my game plan? Do you still think I should expand to FM for back up. If so, I definitely will!

 

[Psychiatricks]

The thing that makes me nervous for you is that you’re basically putting all your eggs in the one basket of this program. You should do everything in your power to match at this point and take nothing for granted. This is not limited to applying to both family medicine and psychiatry (and to a ton of programs) but also includes doing everything you say below in terms of reaching out to the program you have an established relationship with and passing every exam from here on out.

I'm nervous too. Super nervous. I agree I will do FM, I was just nervous due to my strong psych CV. But being that I will apply for 2020, I will have time to make my CV more FM friendly.

Should i cancel one of my scheduled psych electives for a family medicine elective? I have GI, Endo, Cardio, Neuro and 3 psych electives under my belt. I have 2 more psych electives scheduled. One of them is coming up in a week. If I cancel a psych elective for a family medicine elective, would that possibly help my case when applying or is it not enough?

 

[rokshana]

This is becoming much less true. Psych has become increasingly competitive in the last few years.

As the poster above showed from charting outcomes, your odds of matching with either your low step 1 score (~30%) or ck failure (<10%) would be poor, let alone with both marks against you. If you want to keep going anyways knowing the numbers, that's your call and your money. But you need to at least be realistic--there is a real chance that you throw your self into this, do everything right, pass ck with a decent score and still not match.

As an IMG, this is a numbers game. Your ECs are literally irrelevant--a lot of residencies won't ever even see them because your app is going to be filtered out by a step 1 score below their cutoff or a CK failure. So you need to stop everything that you are doing that isn't studying for step 2. If you can pull a decent score there you at least stand a chance of being in the lucky 10% to match.

Personally I don't think you have time to re-take step 2 and apply this year. I would wait until 2020 and also do step 3. If you can delay your graduation, even better. And please apply to FM too. Yes it will look a little weird with your ECs but you need to cast a very wide net.

everything is becoming more competitive...family, peds, IM, etc...but its not ortho, optho, derm, etc...those are competitive residencies...

 

[GoSpursGo]

I can delay graduating but could you please clarify why and until when? I've heard people say this but I get confused as to why.

The only reason I have a bit of hope is because I have showed extreme favor to one particular program that I'm very interested in.

I did a lot of electives at a psych prematch program in an under-served area, i also did/still doing research with them and was offered to do an observer-ship type thing after I graduate to work along side the residents, see patients and help write progress notes. I'm trying to see if I could meet with the PD of the program to honestly talk about my situation to see if I could still qualify for a courtesy interview with all the dedication to the program. Online it says that they "accept 1 step attempt" so I think realistically talking to the PD about this (to find out how true it is) is my best bet. (and in worse case scenario I'm hoping they overlook the attempt and grant an interview because of the dedication shown to the program). So far the chief resident told me that Step 3 is a must and to "stick" with him and the other chief resident.

Right now I'm thinking this: If I stay with the program, do the "observership", continue research with them (after i fix my scores of course), If I improve my step 2 score by 40 points and pass my Step 3. I am saying: "Look, I am dedicated to this program i feel like I'm already a part of the family (which I do), I noticed my weaknesses and bust my ass to overcome it and I also have Step 3 out of the way and ready to go."

I'm so nervous about reaching out to the PD, but you gotta do what you gotta do. What do you think of my game plan? Do you still think I should expand to FM for back up. If so, I definitely will!

As others have said, in general you have a better shot applying as a graduating student rather than a year out from graduation. In addition to better chances for USCE, you don't have to worry about finding something clinical to do for a year. The further you get from Med school, the more programs will worry that you have forgotten clinical skills.

I agree that this program your at is probably your best shot, but I also meant what I said about your ECs literally being irrelevant--this program is proof of that as they tell you up front that they don't accept applicants with multiple step attempts. Many programs are the same and while we can debate whether that is really predictive of how you will perform as a resident, chances are they won't take the time to read the rest of your application once you fail an initial screen. I hate to keep coming back to that theme, but when programs get hundreds of applications they just don't have time to read every single person's story about why they failed a step exam and how they are going to do better in the future.

Ask the chiefs if they think you should talk to the PD. If they think that's a good idea, by all means take the opportunity to talk with the PD to see if your connection to the program gives you a chance--if the answer is yes then you know you have a shot, and while it would be disappointing if the answer is no, that would at least give you valuable information that you need to find programs that will consider you with the failure. Keep in mind that while a courtesy interview might make you feel better, you need to know if you have a realistic shot of MATCHING.

everything is becoming more competitive...family, peds, IM, etc...but its not ortho, optho, derm, etc...those are competitive residencies...

Sure, of course everything is relative. But 5 years ago I remember psych getting lumped in with family, IM, path, neuro, etc as a specialty that is on the lowest rung of competitiveness, and while it's certainly not derm, I do think psych is now a little harder to get than those other specialties that I just mentioned.

 

[Psychiatricks]

As others have said, in general you have a better shot applying as a graduating student rather than a year out from graduation. In addition to better chances for USCE, you don't have to worry about finding something clinical to do for a year. The further you get from Med school, the more programs will worry that you have forgotten clinical skills.

I agree that this program your at is probably your best shot, but I also meant what I said about your ECs literally being irrelevant--this program is proof of that as they tell you up front that they don't accept applicants with multiple step attempts. Many programs are the same and while we can debate whether that is really predictive of how you will perform as a resident, chances are they won't take the time to read the rest of your application once you fail an initial screen. I hate to keep coming back to that theme, but when programs get hundreds of applications they just don't have time to read every single person's story about why they failed a step exam and how they are going to do better in the future.

I asked a Chief about reaching out to the PD for advice. They said, "Sure you can ask for advice but be careful. Make sure that you're very professional when you contact them." Or else I wouldn't dare try lol.

Sorry I worded it incorrectly, the program requires a pass across all steps in 2 attempts max. I've been doing a little research and I've come across multiple psych programs with 2 to 3 attempts max. I hear it's better to apply as a student but the thing about these programs is that they highly recommend Step 3. I cant take step 3 as a student. And with a failure under my belt, Im sure they dont want to worry about me failing step 3 if they decide to rank me. My goals would be networking at conferences/ residency fairs and seeking maybe research opportunities with any of these psych programs after my exams.

Here's my question: If I graduate and do an "observership" wouldn't that count as clinical experience or no? This is what International doctors do for US clinical experience before they try to match at a US residency. If not, would you suggest I delay graduation until closer to match season so I can take step 3 before applying?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I would approach Step 3 with great caution. Step exams, so far, are not your strong suit. Unless you need an H visa, many programs might not care -- unless you fail it, at which point it becomes a very serious problem.

As you mention, some programs might want to see it, although as you point out this means you need to graduate first.

Whether to extend training vs graduate is a complicated decision. Many people point to the NRMP data showing that current seniors match better than prior grads, and hence recommend that you remain a current senior. However, I expect that much of the difference isn't due to being a current senior, but instead is due to the circumstances that make one a US grad. Because of the step failure you're now likely to apply as a US grad, and it's the step failure that's the problem that will decrease your chance of matching, not being a prior grad. As pointed out extending training allows you more clinical rotations which might be beneficial. But if it costs you more $$$, that's a big negative also.

 

[Psychiatricks]

Is it at a program that matches caribs?
If so keep it.
If not swap it out, 5 psych electives seem like overkill if not at receptive programs

I made sure to do all my electives at residency programs that take Carib IMGs

 

[Psychiatricks]

I would approach Step 3 with great caution. Step exams, so far, are not your strong suit. Unless you need an H visa, many programs might not care -- unless you fail it, at which point it becomes a very serious problem.

As you mention, some programs might want to see it, although as you point out this means you need to graduate first.

Whether to extend training vs graduate is a complicated decision. Many people point to the NRMP data showing that current seniors match better than prior grads, and hence recommend that you remain a current senior. However, I expect that much of the difference isn't due to being a current senior, but instead is due to the circumstances that make one a US grad. Because of the step failure you're now likely to apply as a US grad, and it's the step failure that's the problem that will decrease your chance of matching, not being a prior grad. As pointed out extending training allows you more clinical rotations which might be beneficial. But if it costs you more $$$, that's a big negative also.

Step exams are definitely the problem for me. Since this is my dream, I'm going to invest in 1:1 tutoring before I throw in the towel. If it works and gets me a great Step 2 score then I will continue with the tutoring and use it for Step 3 to make sure I pass.

But yes, I think my step failure is worse than being a grad at this point. If I apply as a student, I'll be competing with every other student who doesn't have a failure and whats even worse: I'll be undesirable by the psych programs that take IMGs with multiple attempts because I wouldn't have the highly recommended Step 3 score.

Question: Would working at the hospital as a psychiatric assistant or doing an observer-ship count as USCE? If not, will it not be enough for programs? Would they not take those experiences into consideration?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

What "counts" as USCE is completely program dependent. Certainly working at a specific site will give you face time there, and assuming that you make a good impression it will certainly help. It will not "overcome" some program minimum standard -- so if a program you're considering requires passing steps on the first try, getting experience there is unlikely to get you an interview. But if you meet their minimum criteria, it would likely help.

As far as whether other programs would consider it useful, ask "does the experience from this job help me be a better medical intern?"

 

[Psychiatricks]

What "counts" as USCE is completely program dependent. Certainly working at a specific site will give you face time there, and assuming that you make a good impression it will certainly help. It will not "overcome" some program minimum standard -- so if a program you're considering requires passing steps on the first try, getting experience there is unlikely to get you an interview. But if you meet their minimum criteria, it would likely help.

As far as whether other programs would consider it useful, ask "does the experience from this job help me be a better medical intern?"

Thank you for the feedback! I truly appreciate it.

 

[HelpMeFailedStep1]

Matching into Psych would be very difficult

I think only 130 US-IMG matched Psych in 2018

Broadly applying to FM probably would be your best bet rather than throwing all your eggs into the psych basket

 

[Psychiatricks]

*UPDATE 10/10/2019*

Hey there, I'm posting over a year later. This is mainly for anyone in a similar position or for those of you who are interested to know what happened.

Since the last post, I took and failed CS. Yup. That's right. I remember my HR of 125, sweating, my mind blanking... my mouth got so dry I couldn't even talk to the actors. Even though I was able to the type up notes in timely manner when practicing for CS, on the actual test day I ran out of time on MOST notes.

I got depressed all over AGAIN. I thought... what is wrong with me??

I re-took CK after tutoring and months of hardcore studying. I would average high 240s on Uworld SIM and high 230s on NBME practice tests.

But when the actual test came... passed but with a 21X. I was in shock. So I actually went to a psychiatrist to find out why this kept happening to me. Ha ha. How ironic.

I've been diagnosed with Adult ADHD, inattentive type and performance anxiety (also explained my severe stage fright). That means that I'm naturally and innately the worst test-taker ever especially for longer, complex exams.... oops. Appropriate medication and mastering test-taking strategies most likely would have helped my performance on the boards... big time. If I knew this before I probably would've had a chance to get into an american medical school... who knows?

With my new meds, I breezed through CS the second time. No tachy, no sweating, no mind blanking, still had some dry mouth but I was able to talk to the actors normally and type up EACH and EVERY note in time!

Unfortunately, programs don't care or want to hear about that "disorder" nonsense especially because most people don't have these disorders (or they have it under control) or fail exams. Let's face it, they're trying to filter out applicants since everyone is so fantastic! So any imperfection is a perfect way to get rid of you. Life sucks!

*MATCH 2019-2020 SEASON SO FAR*

I entered Match 2019-2020 (my first time) and I entered LATE (last week). Why? My third LOR took over 2 months to upload (lol the Dr. stopped answering my emails so I was anxious that I would spend thousands on Match with an incomplete application).

I finally got ECFMG certified. Yay! So I started studying for Step 3. I didn't sit for it yet.

Since I applied late, my resident friends advised me to start reaching out to programs immediately before interview slots are filled up. So I started emailing a few this week (around 10 so far). Btw, my emails were not generic (copy/paste), they were very well-thought-out and unique to each program.

To my surprise, I received 2 invitations and 1 of them is from a pre-match program. (Need I remind you: 2 Fails and no Step 3 yet)

Interviews don't equal matching, but it does equal the possibility of matching. Possibility of matching equals hope and the motivation to push forward. All it takes is killing ONE interview to match!

Regardless if I end up matching or not, I will have hope because of this! And I will be more eager and ready to apply for Match the following year. (I plan on applying to externships just in case I don't match.) I will email the rest of the programs and try my best to kill the interviews with my heavy commitment to psych and hope for the best.

*ADVICE FOR THOSE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION*

If you have very low scores or if you fail an exam once, twice or even three times:

1. DO NOT GIVE UP. Don't listen to people. Just do it! Push forward and show perseverance! Programs will see that you never gave up!

2. See a doctor/therapist. It's not the time to be embarrassed or in denial. You need to figure yourself out and YOU CAN'T ALWAYS DO THAT ON YOUR OWN. Simple change in study strategy? Test-taking strategy? GAD? ADHD? Depression? Tumor? Personality Disorder? PTSD? Get checked out.

3. Don't let people talk down to you, make you feel like you didn't take the exams seriously, or make you feel stupid! Every student knows how life-changing these exams are and there are multiple reasons as to why we all perform differently on exams! Scores don't define you!

4. If you have more than 2 or 3 failures on a Step exam or on multiple Step exams be sure to research if you are able to practice medicine in that state. Each state has requirements on how many attempts they allow on each Step exam.

5. Do more research! If there are programs that accept 1 or 2 failed attempts on each exam or even unlimited attempts... FIND THEM AND COMMIT! By commit I mean, do they have an externship program? Apply! Do they have jobs available at their facility? Apply! Do they have research opportunities? Apply! Can you attend their grand rounds? Ask! And if all else fails: Volunteer!

6. Network, network, network. Completing tasks in #5 leads to networking. But also, do you have any friends in potential residency programs that can put in a good word for you? Do you go conferences and mingle?

7. Try to complete Step 3 if you can. It's a huge plus. If you can't complete it in time for Match, let programs know that the score is pending and try to complete it before ranking. If you have failures or low scores, the program won't have to worry about you passing Step 3 while working as a resident.

8. When you apply for Match, write unique, well-thought-out personal statements for those special programs. Start reaching out to programs early October or even earlier if you've heard that other people started getting invitations from that program. Depending on the program you can email, call or write a letter to the PD/PC. Each has its pros and cons so research! Emails seem to be most popular.

9. If you get an interview: PRACTICE INTERVIEWING like your life depended on it! Oh wait... it does! Do a mock interview! Know your CV inside and out, research the answer to every possible question imaginable and make sure you have good questions to ask! You need to impress them so be over-prepared. Don't forget to loosen up and be yourself!

10. If its still Match season, it's getting late and no interviews: Reach out to the programs again. Writing letters might take a while. If you didn't call before, it doesn't hurt to call now. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Many people have claimed to snag some interviews this way.

11. If you don't Match this season, and you got interviews, try to figure out what went wrong with the interview. An interview meant that they considered hiring you. Were you too cocky? Too boring? Awkward? Couldn't answer a question? Did you sound crazy? Got too nervous? Gave too much personal info? No Step 3? I highly recommend reaching out to get feedback from the interview.

12. If you don't Match now, go back to #5 to enhance your resume, do some more networking and prepare for next year's Match!

HOPEFULLY YOU WILL MATCH AND SO WILL I!

WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I entered Match 2019-2020 (my first time) and I entered LATE (last week). Why? My third LOR took over 2 months to upload (lol the Dr. stopped answering my emails so I was anxious that I would spend thousands on Match with an incomplete application).

Since I applied late, my resident friends advised me to start reaching out to programs immediately before interview slots are filled up. So I started emailing a few this week (around 10 so far). Btw, my emails were not generic (copy/paste), they were very well-thought-out and unique to each program.

8. When you apply for Match, write unique, well-thought-out personal statements for those special programs. Start reaching out to programs early October or even earlier if you've heard that other people started getting invitations from that program. Depending on the program you can email, call or write a letter to the PD/PC. Each has its pros and cons so research! Emails seem to be most popular.

There are some good points in your post. However, I want to STRONGLY push back against these two pieces of advice in regards to applying late and pestering programs in early October.

There is literally no reason that would make applying late a good idea. You're not specifically advocating that, but the idea that you "needed" to wait until early October to apply because you didn't have your third LOR is silly. Even if you're missing something, everyone should apply on 9/15. Some programs will put your application on hold until it's complete, but a few will review your application even if you're just missing a letter or something relatively minor.

As a corollary, as numerous PCs in this classic thread have said ( Ask the Program Coordinator! ) early October is too early to reach out to PCs/PDs. They are overwhelmed right now, and reaching out now (especially if you applied late and they haven't had a chance to review your application) just adds another thing on their to-do list. Mid-late October at the earliest.

I'm glad that thus far things have worked out for you, but would not advise others to do these two things. Best of luck.

 

[rokshana]

There are some good points in your post. However, I want to STRONGLY push back against these two pieces of advice in regards to applying late and pestering programs in early October.

There is literally no reason that would make applying late a good idea. You're not specifically advocating that, but the idea that you "needed" to wait until early October to apply because you didn't have your third LOR is silly. Even if you're missing something, everyone should apply on 9/15. Some programs will put your application on hold until it's complete, but a few will review your application even if you're just missing a letter or something relatively minor.

As a corollary, as numerous PCs in this classic thread have said ( Ask the Program Coordinator! ) early October is too early to reach out to PCs/PDs. They are overwhelmed right now, and reaching out now (especially if you applied late and they haven't had a chance to review your application) just adds another thing on their to-do list. Mid-late October at the earliest.

I'm glad that thus far things have worked out for you, but would not advise others to do these two things. Best of luck.

Agree....the PCs that have posted in the ask the PC thread have said this numerous times.

And applying late because you didn’t have a LoR points out the need to ask for more letters than you actually need, so you are not dependent on that one writer...

 

[LABrondo]

*UPDATE 10/10/2019*

Hey there, I'm posting over a year later. This is mainly for anyone in a similar position or for those of you who are interested to know what happened.

Since the last post, I took and failed CS. Yup. That's right. I remember my HR of 125, sweating, my mind blanking... my mouth got so dry I couldn't even talk to the actors. Even though I was able to the type up notes in timely manner when practicing for CS, on the actual test day I ran out of time on MOST notes.

I got depressed all over AGAIN. I thought... what is wrong with me??

I re-took CK after tutoring and months of hardcore studying. I would average high 240s on Uworld SIM and high 230s on NBME practice tests.

But when the actual test came... passed but with a 21X. I was in shock. So I actually went to a psychiatrist to find out why this kept happening to me. Ha ha. How ironic.

I've been diagnosed with Adult ADHD, inattentive type and performance anxiety (also explained my severe stage fright). That means that I'm naturally and innately the worst test-taker ever especially for longer, complex exams.... oops. Appropriate medication and mastering test-taking strategies most likely would have helped my performance on the boards... big time. If I knew this before I probably would've had a chance to get into an american medical school... who knows?

With my new meds, I breezed through CS the second time. No tachy, no sweating, no mind blanking, still had some dry mouth but I was able to talk to the actors normally and type up EACH and EVERY note in time!

Unfortunately, programs don't care or want to hear about that "disorder" nonsense especially because most people don't have these disorders (or they have it under control) or fail exams. Let's face it, they're trying to filter out applicants since everyone is so fantastic! So any imperfection is a perfect way to get rid of you. Life sucks!

*MATCH 2019-2020 SEASON SO FAR*

I entered Match 2019-2020 (my first time) and I entered LATE (last week). Why? My third LOR took over 2 months to upload (lol the Dr. stopped answering my emails so I was anxious that I would spend thousands on Match with an incomplete application).

I finally got ECFMG certified. Yay! So I started studying for Step 3. I didn't sit for it yet.

Since I applied late, my resident friends advised me to start reaching out to programs immediately before interview slots are filled up. So I started emailing a few this week (around 10 so far). Btw, my emails were not generic (copy/paste), they were very well-thought-out and unique to each program.

To my surprise, I received 2 invitations and 1 of them is from a pre-match program. (Need I remind you: 2 Fails and no Step 3 yet)

Interviews don't equal matching, but it does equal the possibility of matching. Possibility of matching equals hope and the motivation to push forward. All it takes is killing ONE interview to match!

Regardless if I end up matching or not, I will have hope because of this! And I will be more eager and ready to apply for Match the following year. (I plan on applying to externships just in case I don't match.) I will email the rest of the programs and try my best to kill the interviews with my heavy commitment to psych and hope for the best.

*ADVICE FOR THOSE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION*

If you have very low scores or if you fail an exam once, twice or even three times:

1. DO NOT GIVE UP. Don't listen to people. Just do it! Push forward and show perseverance! Programs will see that you never gave up!

2. See a doctor/therapist. It's not the time to be embarrassed or in denial. You need to figure yourself out and YOU CAN'T ALWAYS DO THAT ON YOUR OWN. Simple change in study strategy? Test-taking strategy? GAD? ADHD? Depression? Tumor? Personality Disorder? PTSD? Get checked out.

3. Don't let people talk down to you, make you feel like you didn't take the exams seriously, or make you feel stupid! Every student knows how life-changing these exams are and there are multiple reasons as to why we all perform differently on exams! Scores don't define you!

4. If you have more than 2 or 3 failures on a Step exam or on multiple Step exams be sure to research if you are able to practice medicine in that state. Each state has requirements on how many attempts they allow on each Step exam.

5. Do more research! If there are programs that accept 1 or 2 failed attempts on each exam or even unlimited attempts... FIND THEM AND COMMIT! By commit I mean, do they have an externship program? Apply! Do they have jobs available at their facility? Apply! Do they have research opportunities? Apply! Can you attend their grand rounds? Ask! And if all else fails: Volunteer!

6. Network, network, network. Completing tasks in #5 leads to networking. But also, do you have any friends in potential residency programs that can put in a good word for you? Do you go conferences and mingle?

7. Try to complete Step 3 if you can. It's a huge plus. If you can't complete it in time for Match, let programs know that the score is pending and try to complete it before ranking. If you have failures or low scores, the program won't have to worry about you passing Step 3 while working as a resident.

8. When you apply for Match, write unique, well-thought-out personal statements for those special programs. Start reaching out to programs early October or even earlier if you've heard that other people started getting invitations from that program. Depending on the program you can email, call or write a letter to the PD/PC. Each has its pros and cons so research! Emails seem to be most popular.

9. If you get an interview: PRACTICE INTERVIEWING like your life depended on it! Oh wait... it does! Do a mock interview! Know your CV inside and out, research the answer to every possible question imaginable and make sure you have good questions to ask! You need to impress them so be over-prepared. Don't forget to loosen up and be yourself!

10. If its still Match season, it's getting late and no interviews: Reach out to the programs again. Writing letters might take a while. If you didn't call before, it doesn't hurt to call now. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Many people have claimed to snag some interviews this way.

11. If you don't Match this season, and you got interviews, try to figure out what went wrong with the interview. An interview meant that they considered hiring you. Were you too cocky? Too boring? Awkward? Couldn't answer a question? Did you sound crazy? Got too nervous? Gave too much personal info? No Step 3? I highly recommend reaching out to get feedback from the interview.

12. If you don't Match now, go back to #5 to enhance your resume, do some more networking and prepare for next year's Match!

HOPEFULLY YOU WILL MATCH AND SO WILL I!

WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY!

GOOD LUCK!

Awesome! What places did you hear back from for II? You can PM if you like, I’m in similar boat!

 

[Psychiatricks]

There are some good points in your post. However, I want to STRONGLY push back against these two pieces of advice in regards to applying late and pestering programs in early October.

There is literally no reason that would make applying late a good idea. You're not specifically advocating that, but the idea that you "needed" to wait until early October to apply because you didn't have your third LOR is silly. Even if you're missing something, everyone should apply on 9/15. Some programs will put your application on hold until it's complete, but a few will review your application even if you're just missing a letter or something relatively minor.

As a corollary, as numerous PCs in this classic thread have said ( Ask the Program Coordinator! ) early October is too early to reach out to PCs/PDs. They are overwhelmed right now, and reaching out now (especially if you applied late and they haven't had a chance to review your application) just adds another thing on their to-do list. Mid-late October at the earliest.

I'm glad that thus far things have worked out for you, but would not advise others to do these two things. Best of luck.

Thank you! I've heard the same thing from other people in regards to applying without the LOR, and you shouldn't apply late. And it is a bad idea! But in my situation, there was a chance that my application would never get completed at all as the Dr. stopped responding. I felt like I had to make a call to either risk applying with only 2 LORs or wait to see if I would get the 3rd LOR (My 4th LOR was supposed to be from a Dr. that ended up resigning and going M.I.A ). I wish that I had applied on time since the Dr. came through for me.

One of the interviews I scored was from a program whose deadline to apply was October 15th. Early right? When I noticed this I quickly emailed them. ( I don't know how the selection process goes so correct me if I'm wrong) So I thought to myself... I applied late (Oct. 1st) and there's a chance that they might not "download new applications???" to notice and review my late application in time before slots fill up. I also thought that they probably won't care anymore after the 15th LOL. So I'm guessing programs with early deadlines might have different rules on reaching out.

 

[Psychiatricks]

And applying late because you didn’t have a LoR points out the need to ask for more letters than you actually need, so you are not dependent on that one writer...

I thought that asking for 4 LORs was enough. I only applied to psych and I know that it's 4 LORs max. The 4th LOR was supposed to be from a Dr. who ending up resigning and going MIA. *Sigh* Life happens

 

[rokshana]

I thought that asking for 4 LORs was enough. I only applied to psych and I know that it's 4 LORs max. The 4th LOR was supposed to be from a Dr. who ending up resigning and going MIA. *Sigh* Life happens

You can ask for as many letters as you want...you can only upload 4 to eras.

I asked 7 people , got 5 in a timely manner and used the best 3-4 of them.

 

[mvenus929]

You can ask for as many letters as you want...you can only upload 4 to eras.

I asked 7 people , got 5 in a timely manner and used the best 3-4 of them.

To clarify, you can only assign 4 per program. I had 5 letters uploaded for fellowship that I carefully picked and chose for each program (my PD letter and research mentor went to everyone, I varied the other 3).

 

[Psychiatricks]

You can ask for as many letters as you want...you can only upload 4 to eras.

I asked 7 people , got 5 in a timely manner and used the best 3-4 of them.

I don't understand. I personally didn't upload any letters at all. I waived my right to view my LORs.

The writers uploaded my LORs straight to ERAS.

I wouldn't be able to choose and use "the best letters" because I couldn't see the letters in the first place or upload them...

 

[rokshana]

I don't understand. I personally didn't upload any letters at all. I waived my right to view my LORs.

The writers uploaded my LORs straight to ERAS.

I wouldn't be able to choose and use "the best letters" because I couldn't see the letters in the first place or upload them...

Waiving doesn’t mean you can’t see them or know about them...only that you can’t ASK to see them.

Can’t believe I have to explain this , but if you ask more than 3 or 4 people then you are dependent on those people...ask more people and you have a better chance to get the require number in a timely manner.

 

[Psychiatricks]

Waiving doesn’t mean you can’t see them or know about them...only that you can’t ASK to see them.

Can’t believe I have to explain this , but if you ask more than 3 or 4 people then you are dependent on those people...ask more people and you have a better chance to get the require number in a timely manner.

According to ECFMG: "When you “waive your rights” to view a LoR, it means that you permanently give up your right to read the letter."

It doesn't sound like you waived your right since you claimed to have uploaded them.

Whether people decide to honor the waive or not is their own business, but we aren't supposed to be able to see or read LoRs if waived. Waiving the letter also means you can't upload them, only the writers can.

I also can't believe I have to explain this: Since I am waiving the right to view the letter and I can't upload them.... I don't read them, I can only ask doctors who know me VERY WELL, on a personal level, in order to write a strong LOR. I have poor scores and attempts, I don't need average/maybe LORs, I need awesome ones. Genuine waived awesome ones. I can't go around asking 7 people (when half of them don't really know me well enough) to write a strong LOR, while not getting a chance to see it because they upload it straight to ERAS. I wasn't fortunate enough to get up close and personal with more than 4 physicians and if I did reach out to the other physicians, I wouldn't have your privilege to "pick and choose the best" since I waived my right to do so.

Hope you understand.

 

[rokshana]

According to ECFMG: "When you “waive your rights” to view a LoR, it means that you permanently give up your right to read the letter."

It doesn't sound like you waived your right since you claimed to have uploaded them.

Whether people decide to honor the waive or not is their own business, but we aren't supposed to be able to see or read LoRs if waived. Waiving the letter also means you can't upload them, only the writers can.

I also can't believe I have to explain this: Since I am waiving the right to view the letter and I can't upload them.... I don't read them, I can only ask doctors who know me VERY WELL, on a personal level, in order to write a strong LOR. I have poor scores and attempts, I don't need average/maybe LORs, I need awesome ones. Genuine waived awesome ones. I can't go around asking 7 people (when half of them don't really know me well enough) to write a strong LOR, while not getting a chance to see it because they upload it straight to ERAS. I wasn't fortunate enough to get up close and personal with more than 4 physicians and if I did reach out to the other physicians, I wouldn't have your privilege to "pick and choose the best" since I waived my right to do so.

Hope you understand.

So...I was in the match in 2007-2008... things were still mailed back in the day... but I guess I should have said ASSIGNED them... but my WHOLE POINT was if you ask more than 3-4 people for letters then you are not dependent on just those 3-4 people...and you won’t have to delay your application... though as others have said before, shouldn’t have delayed the application because a letter wasn’t there...
good luck... hope the delay doesn’t hurt you.

 

[hamstergang]

Whether people decide to honor the waive or not is their own business, but we aren't supposed to be able to see or read LoRs if waived.

Just to comment on this point alone, waiving your right to read the letter doesn't mean you can't read it. Some letter writers will choose to share their letters. You can't force them to, but you are certainly allowed to.

 

[rokshana]

Just to comment on this point alone, waiving your right to read the letter doesn't mean you can't read it. Some letter writers will choose to share their letters. You can't force them to, but you are certainly allowed to.

Exactly...it just means you can’t ask to read it.

 

[Psychiatricks]

Just to comment on this point alone, waiving your right to read the letter doesn't mean you can't read it. Some letter writers will choose to share their letters. You can't force them to, but you are certainly allowed to.

Thanks for this. I didn't even know that. None of my writers offered to share the letter. They just uploaded it.

 

[Psychiatricks]

So...I was in the match in 2007-2008... things were still mailed back in the day... but I guess I should have said ASSIGNED them... but my WHOLE POINT was if you ask more than 3-4 people for letters then you are not dependent on just those 3-4 people...and you won’t have to delay your application... though as others have said before, shouldn’t have delayed the application because a letter wasn’t there...
good luck... hope the delay doesn’t hurt you.

Thank you for wishing me luck, I understand what you mean. I wish that I applied on time. I'm doing surprisingly well for my ugly stats and late application actually. I have 7 interviews, 1 program straight wait-listed me and 2 other programs wait-listed me due to slots already being filled. I didn't finish emailing yet so I'm hopeful. I just really need to kill the interviews.

Any interview advice from anyone would be more than helpful.

Thanks!!

 

[Psychiatricks]

****** UPDATE ******

I cannot believe I am saying this but: I matched! At the prematch program of course.
I ended up with 8 interviews and 2 wait-list after applying late. Yes. You've heard correctly. I only went to 2 so far. So that goes to show that I could've matched with 2 interviews.... hell even just one!
I used the strategy from my above post to get interviews. I was VERY pro-active.

I just sat for Step 3 so it turns out that I didn't need it. It's still good to get it out the way because I cant imagine studying during residency.

Advice: Look at the deadlines for programs. If some of them finish early. Email those programs early!

I thought I'd add a very controversial topic:
I received advice from an attending not to mention my failures in my PS. I was like "I know I should put my red flags in my PS". They said "What?! Who told you that?! A lot of program directors are superficial. They don't want to see negativity. Don't put it!" I was heavily conflicted. To do it or not to do it?

I decided not to put them in there. It seemed to work out for me with 8 interviews. Each to their own.

NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!
Take a look at the early comments from some of the people in this trend. And look what hard work and perseverance can get you!
Thank you for following me on my year long agonizing journey. Now I have to withdraw from match because.....

I PRE-MATCHED!!!!!

 

[Merely]

****** UPDATE ******

I cannot believe I am saying this but: I matched! At the prematch program of course.
I ended up with 8 interviews and 2 wait-list after applying late. Yes. You've heard correctly. I only went to 2 so far. So that goes to show that I could've matched with 2 interviews.... hell even just one!
I used the strategy from my above post to get interviews. I was VERY pro-active.

I just sat for Step 3 so it turns out that I didn't need it. It's still good to get it out the way because I cant imagine studying during residency.

Advice: Look at the deadlines for programs. If some of them finish early. Email those programs early!

I thought I'd add a very controversial topic:
I received advice from an attending not to mention my failures in my PS. I was like "I know I should put my red flags in my PS". They said "What?! Who told you that?! A lot of program directors are superficial. They don't want to see negativity. Don't put it!" I was heavily conflicted. To do it or not to do it?

I decided not to put them in there. It seemed to work out for me with 8 interviews. Each to their own.

NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!
Take a look at the early comments from some of the people in this trend. And look what hard work and perseverance can get you!
Thank you for following me on my year long agonizing journey. Now I have to withdraw from match because.....

I PRE-MATCHED!!!!!

you matched into a psych residency?

 

[Psychiatricks]

you matched into a psych residency?

Yes, I only applied to psychiatry. This is my first attempt at match and I prematched.

 

[Merely]

Yes, I only applied to psychiatry. This is my first attempt at match and I prematched.

how the hell can you even prematch? I didn’t even know programs did that..

 

[Psychiatricks]

how the hell can you even prematch? I didn’t even know programs did that..

Yea there are a couple of prematch programs that offers positions outside of match.

 

[Merely]

Yea there are a couple of prematch programs that offers positions outside of match.

Are these extremely bad programs? I don’t see why they would do that

 

[GoSpursGo]

Here is some explanation about what “prematching” means these days: Pre match contracts and unfilled positions

So long as it’s an acgme accredited program, congrats!

 

[Psychiatricks]

Here is some explanation about what “prematching” means these days: Pre match contracts and unfilled positions

So long as it’s an acgme accredited program, congrats!

Thank you!!!

 

[SarahAmz]

****** UPDATE ******

I cannot believe I am saying this but: I matched! At the prematch program of course.
I ended up with 8 interviews and 2 wait-list after applying late. Yes. You've heard correctly. I only went to 2 so far. So that goes to show that I could've matched with 2 interviews.... hell even just one!
I used the strategy from my above post to get interviews. I was VERY pro-active.

I just sat for Step 3 so it turns out that I didn't need it. It's still good to get it out the way because I cant imagine studying during residency.

Advice: Look at the deadlines for programs. If some of them finish early. Email those programs early!

I thought I'd add a very controversial topic:
I received advice from an attending not to mention my failures in my PS. I was like "I know I should put my red flags in my PS". They said "What?! Who told you that?! A lot of program directors are superficial. They don't want to see negativity. Don't put it!" I was heavily conflicted. To do it or not to do it?

I decided not to put them in there. It seemed to work out for me with 8 interviews. Each to their own.

NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!
Take a look at the early comments from some of the people in this trend. And look what hard work and perseverance can get you!
Thank you for following me on my year long agonizing journey. Now I have to withdraw from match because.....

I PRE-MATCHED!!!!!

that’s amazing congrats! You really worked hard. I am in kind of a similar boat and I didn’t pass CK the first time. My NBMEs did not reflect my actual score. Can you explain what you did to pass it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[ThoracicGuy]

that’s amazing congrats! You really worked hard. I am in kind of a similar boat and I didn’t pass CK the first time. My NBMEs did not reflect my actual score. Can you explain what you did to pass it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

The message you responded to was almost a year old and the poster hasn't posted since the end of November 2019.