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mardigras

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i got my result this wednesday, was totally shocked..........exam did not go extremely well, but did not think that i would fail
my study materials: step 2CK kaplan notes, FA-3 times, UW-2 times, CCS-uw 2 times, swanson's for geriatrics

was wondering if i should retake the exam when i start residency next year or it is still worthwhile to take it by feb/march next year

my worst areas on the worksheet are: elderly , on topics-behavioral, heme-onc
any suggestions for study materials?
 

FirstMANdown

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i got my result this wednesday, was totally shocked..........exam did not go extremely well, but did not think that i would fail
my study materials: step 2CK kaplan notes, FA-3 times, UW-2 times, CCS-uw 2 times, swanson's for geriatrics

was wondering if i should retake the exam when i start residency next year or it is still worthwhile to take it by feb/march next year

my worst areas on the worksheet are: elderly , on topics-behavioral, heme-onc
any suggestions for study materials?

Really sorry to hear bout that. Makes you wonder how the hell they even score these exams fairly. You would think that after studying as hard as you did you should have at least passed the exam. These USMLE exams are the only exams in the world that can fail a person who actually knows a lot about medicine.

Im little worried because I will be taking my exam in about a week. How did you average on UW%. What was your NBME assesment score??

In any event I truly wish you the best of luck the second time around. Keep up the good fight. :annoyed:
 

abcabc1

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These USMLE exams are the only exams in the world that can fail a person who actually knows a lot about medicine.


While I agree with this statement, I'm not sure KNOWLEDGE of Medicine is really what the NBME/FSMB/USMLE is really trying to assess. It's more reasoning/application/judgement and a little of how well do you play our game than pure Medical knowledge. Were it knowledge, the Q's would be a lot shorter and the % of items correct to pass would be much higher than it is now.

I think their mission/objective statement eludes to this as well (testing application of knowledge, etc.)
 

FirstMANdown

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While I agree with this statement, I'm not sure KNOWLEDGE of Medicine is really what the NBME/FSMB/USMLE is really trying to assess. It's more reasoning/application/judgement and a little of how well do you play our game than pure Medical knowledge. Were it knowledge, the Q's would be a lot shorter and the % of items correct to pass would be much higher than it is now.

I think their mission/objective statement eludes to this as well (testing application of knowledge, etc.)

I think your on the point with this idea. However, if you really want to know how I personally feel about it, I think the whole Step 1,2,3 system is bulls**t and overpriced. You know, laywers make more money than doctors on the average but, you dont here nothing about them taking a BAR step 1,2 & 3. Nor are the questions on a BAR exam ambiguious, even though all the levels of american law is very complex, with thousands of acts and bills being presented.
I guess Lawyers get all the breaks. Everyone is against doctors it seems. Heh, even doctors are against doctors mainly because of super egos and a belief that each one of them (me too?) is better than the next. If it was not for my true love for patients I would have became a sanitary worker or something. Any way its just my dysthimic opinion. (sorry bout the spelling).:idea:
 

andwhat

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i got my result this wednesday, was totally shocked..........exam did not go extremely well, but did not think that i would fail
my study materials: step 2CK kaplan notes, FA-3 times, UW-2 times, CCS-uw 2 times, swanson's for geriatrics

was wondering if i should retake the exam when i start residency next year or it is still worthwhile to take it by feb/march next year

my worst areas on the worksheet are: elderly , on topics-behavioral, heme-onc
any suggestions for study materials?

Premier Review. Kaplan is horrible dude, as far as step 3 material. FA is worthless, other than the ccs section that is hy, but incomplete and big time.
That NBME assessment is quite good honestly.
 

SalforGood

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Mardigras, sorry to hear about that. Maybe try waiting 1 year after your internship then do it in order to gain experience in efficiency in patient management and test taking. I think that is the key. To know the clinical aspects of cases really well and know how to extract the key information in answering the questions. Read the question first, skim the answers then go back only if you need to to look for the key pieces of data you need. Hopefully that will make the difference for you. If you dont know the answer, guess and move on. When studying, ask yourself: what test would I order first, second, etc. Also ask yourself what treatment would I try first, second, etc. Also ask yourself what is the prognosis for this condition. And finally, know when reassurance/observation is all that is necessary. That is just my opinion but hopefully that will help.

Hope this helps,
Good luck and believe:)
 

fungusflu

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Hi mardigras:

Sorry to hear that you failed. I just got my result today and am relieved that I passed. I agree with SalforGood that it's probably better taking the exam after internship... especially if you are in a non-clinical residency. There are just too much clinical stuffs to study and know in a short period of time. I am a path resident and I took the exam after my internship year. In addition to SalforGood 's excellent advices, I'd also recommend you to study CCS cases of UW very well, also study cases from Goody's thread... VERY high-yield... CCS is by far the easier of the 2 portions and counts for 25% of the total grades... I got close to 100% on CCS and wihtout it, my grade would be much worse. Good luck to you and remember, it's not the end of the world to do step 3 twice!
 

umsami

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My one bit of advice is not too wait too long in retaking because you were so close to passing. It seems like they are always raising the minimal passing score.... so if you were to do a 6 week cram session with maybe Premier Review or something... you'd probably pass. But if you wait a year, there's a chance you will forget a lot.

I would clamp down and study. You will be so much happier if you have Step III out of the way.
 

jabreal00

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I think your on the point with this idea. However, if you really want to know how I personally feel about it, I think the whole Step 1,2,3 system is bulls**t and overpriced. You know, laywers make more money than doctors on the average but, you dont here nothing about them taking a BAR step 1,2 & 3. Nor are the questions on a BAR exam ambiguious, even though all the levels of american law is very complex, with thousands of acts and bills being presented.
I guess Lawyers get all the breaks. Everyone is against doctors it seems. Heh, even doctors are against doctors mainly because of super egos and a belief that each one of them (me too?) is better than the next. If it was not for my true love for patients I would have became a sanitary worker or something. Any way its just my dysthimic opinion. (sorry bout the spelling).:idea:

The statement that Lawyers make more than Doctors on average is wrong. The average salary of a Lawyer is $45-50K. There are a ton more law schools that churn out 1000s of law grads a year. Only those who go to the top 20 law schools get the big firm jobs to make 150K.

Back to the topic, Boards&Wards in addition to Kaplan's Qbook is what I used for USMLEIII during my intern year. I really didn't have that much time to study but the fact that I was doing an Internal Medicine residency helped.

---------------- Now playing: Portishead - Numb via FoxyTunes
 

FirstMANdown

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The statement that Lawyers make more than Doctors on average is wrong. The average salary of a Lawyer is $45-50K. There are a ton more law schools that churn out 1000s of law grads a year. Only those who go to the top 20 law schools get the big firm jobs to make 150K.

Back to the topic, Boards&Wards in addition to Kaplan's Qbook is what I used for USMLEIII during my intern year. I really didn't have that much time to study but the fact that I was doing an Internal Medicine residency helped.

---------------- Now playing: Portishead - Numb via FoxyTunes

I think you have been mis-informed about the average income of lawyers. In one point you are somewhat correct. Its true that a $50-55 thou income exist for lawyers but this is only if they are working for a non-profit organization, a college/university or doing a fellowship. Usually lawyers only do this to "beef up" there resume for bigger jobs and/or firms. However, the VAST majority of lawyers do not work in these areas and the overall average salary for a lawyer(all specialties combined) is approximately $105,000 per year. But, personally I think this average salary is understated by $10 or 20 grand on the average. Don't believe me check out new York bar association. Hope this helps you with your misconception about average wage earners in the law field.
Oh and by the way, lawyers who make it in the top 20 law firms in this country tend to make easily in the upper 6 figures, NOT low 6 figures. I know this because I have many family members who are lawyers.
Also, this thread should be used to talk about Step 3 and its relevance and not to elaborate on Lawyer salary's. I just mentioned the subject because I merly wanted to compare how other white collar jobs have it better than use doctors in terms of less red tape, thats all.
 

jabreal00

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I think you have been mis-informed about the average income of lawyers. In one point you are somewhat correct. Its true that a $50-55 thou income exist for lawyers but this is only if they are working for a non-profit organization, a college/university or doing a fellowship. Usually lawyers only do this to "beef up" there resume for bigger jobs and/or firms. However, the VAST majority of lawyers do not work in these areas and the overall average salary for a lawyer(all specialties combined) is approximately $105,000 per year. But, personally I think this average salary is understated by $10 or 20 grand on the average. Don't believe me check out new York bar association. Hope this helps you with your misconception about average wage earners in the law field.
Oh and by the way, lawyers who make it in the top 20 law firms in this country tend to make easily in the upper 6 figures, NOT low 6 figures. I know this because I have many family members who are lawyers.
Also, this thread should be used to talk about Step 3 and its relevance and not to elaborate on Lawyer salary's. I just mentioned the subject because I merly wanted to compare how other white collar jobs have it better than use doctors in terms of less red tape, thats all.

Sir you are misinformed. My sister is a lawyer. She went to a very good law school on the east coast. My best friend is a law graduate of Harvard. How many law schools do you think are in the country? The average 900 sqft one bedroom apartment in NYC is maybe $700K and up but do you think that is what the average price of a home in the US? Please just do a simple google search. The average lawyer does not make more money than the average doctor. I am not talking about the big firms or corporate lawyers. I am talking about the average lawyer compared to the average physician.


---------------- Listening to: Diana Krall - Let's Face The Music And Dance via FoxyTunes
 

Wozzer

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Sir you are misinformed. My sister is a lawyer. She went to a very good law school on the east coast. My best friend is a law graduate of Harvard. How many law schools do you think are in the country? The average 900 sqft one bedroom apartment in NYC is maybe $700K and up but do you think that is what the average price of a home in the US? Please just do a simple google search. The average lawyer does not make more money than the average doctor. I am not talking about the big firms or corporate lawyers. I am talking about the average lawyer compared to the average physician.


---------------- Listening to: Diana Krall - Let's Face The Music And Dance via FoxyTunes

True, the "average lawyer" does not make as much as the "average doctor". But the "average" lawyer also does not have as high a GPA, involvement in EC's, standardized test scores, work hours, strange anti-social self-sacrificing behavioral pattern that the "average" MD does. If you take a person who has all of those, one that is good enough to be an average MD, and have them work the same amount in law school and beyond, they will make much more money as a JD than an MD. The catch is that most people who have what it takes to be an MD lack the risk-taking and social skill traits needed to be successful outside of medicine (as a lawyer, in business, whatever).
 

vtucci

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I think your on the point with this idea. However, if you really want to know how I personally feel about it, I think the whole Step 1,2,3 system is bulls**t and overpriced. You know, laywers make more money than doctors on the average but, you dont here nothing about them taking a BAR step 1,2 & 3. Nor are the questions on a BAR exam ambiguious, even though all the levels of american law is very complex, with thousands of acts and bills being presented.
I guess Lawyers get all the breaks. Everyone is against doctors it seems. Heh, even doctors are against doctors mainly because of super egos and a belief that each one of them (me too?) is better than the next. If it was not for my true love for patients I would have became a sanitary worker or something. Any way its just my dysthimic opinion. (sorry bout the spelling).:idea:

I know it is popular to bash the lawyers. However as a JD (and soon to be MD), I can state with absolute certainty that the bar exam in NY state was much harder than Step I or Step II. There is absolutely ambiguity in the question stems and the pass rate for my administration in Feb 2001 was only 44% (fortunately, I passed on my first attempt). The annoying thing about the steps is that they are graded numerically and the bar exam is pass/fail. As a result, I think the questions can and should be harder on the bar. It would be great if the steps went to pass/fail and had harder questions to keep out those whose knowledgebase is maybe not on par.
 

vtucci

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True, the "average lawyer" does not make as much as the "average doctor". But the "average" lawyer also does not have as high a GPA, involvement in EC's, standardized test scores, work hours, strange anti-social self-sacrificing behavioral pattern that the "average" MD does. If you take a person who has all of those, one that is good enough to be an average MD, and have them work the same amount in law school and beyond, they will make much more money as a JD than an MD. The catch is that most people who have what it takes to be an MD lack the risk-taking and social skill traits needed to be successful outside of medicine (as a lawyer, in business, whatever).

Any first year associate working in a mid-sized or large law firm will be working hours comparable to surgical interns (trust me, I did it) but you are absolutely right in that the pay was much higher.

Also, lawyers needed high standardized test scores (the LSAT), lots of ECs including leadership positions and high GPAs as well (although the GPA for medicine is higher again).
 

theCamel

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no worries

i took the test a week ago, and definitely feel like i bombed it
two of my ccs cases ended within 3 minutes of real time (umm, crap?) and i just don't feel great about the MCQ's

will keep you updated, i think 4-5% of people fail, so it's not unheard of
 

coralfangs

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True, the "average lawyer" does not make as much as the "average doctor". But the "average" lawyer also does not have as high a GPA, involvement in EC's, standardized test scores, work hours, strange anti-social self-sacrificing behavioral pattern that the "average" MD does. If you take a person who has all of those, one that is good enough to be an average MD, and have them work the same amount in law school and beyond, they will make much more money as a JD than an MD. The catch is that most people who have what it takes to be an MD lack the risk-taking and social skill traits needed to be successful outside of medicine (as a lawyer, in business, whatever).

It's quite pathetic to see professionals or professional-soon-to-bes comparing salary and work hours ;ike this.
In every single friggen field, you have to work hard to be the top dogs and earn the most money, AND you have to work especially hard when you are starting out. So many folks here have this illusion that people in law or finance have their money thrown at them; that they don't have to work as many hours, etc. Don't base your judgement on some tv show (ie. Miranda from S&C is NOT realistic at all if you know how hard one has to work to be made partner at a law firm).
A few friends of mine who graduated from top (Harvard, Yale) law schools are working in law firms down in NYC. Yes, they are earning good living but they work past 12am everyday.
When you talk about the "average" lawyers who make more than $100k a year and work 8 hours a day. You have to factor in the senior partners. Seriously.
Even in the medical field, you would enjoy the same benefit once you have seniority at a hospital (one of my supervisors worked exactly 9 hours a day and earned $400k)
 
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