failed TWO preclinical courses: need help/ advice/ motivation :(

[Karen4317]

Hi everybody!
I am currently an M2 studying for boards and at times I feel like my chances at residency are very low, which has been discouraging me quite a lot! I failed two classes for preclinical, but successfully passed remediation. My dean told me that on the Dean's letter they will write specifically something along those lines "student was able to pass upon remediation of course." Most of the students in my class and my friends are super gunners (and I applaud them for that!) but they make it seem like even one failure is the end of the world, let alone two.
I'm currently interested in pediatric residency, and I just really want to focus on what I can control in the future, rather than my two failures in the past. If I do well on my boards and third year, do I still have a chance at landing a decent pediatric residency? Also, if anybody has been in a similar situation as mine, any support would help! How well do you guys think I should do in terms of step 1?

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[Ho0v-man]

Hi everybody!
I am currently an M2 studying for boards and at times I feel like my chances at residency are very low, which has been discouraging me quite a lot! I failed two classes for preclinical, but successfully passed remediation. My dean told me that on the Dean's letter they will write specifically something along those lines "student was able to pass upon remediation of course." Most of the students in my class and my friends are super gunners (and I applaud them for that!) but they make it seem like even one failure is the end of the world, let alone two.
I'm currently interested in pediatric residency, and I just really want to focus on what I can control in the future, rather than my two failures in the past. If I do well on my boards and third year, do I still have a chance at landing a decent pediatric residency? Also, if anybody has been in a similar situation as mine, any support would help! How well do you guys think I should do in terms of step 1?

The failures certainly can’t help, but worrying about that now is pointless. What’s done is done. Focus on what you can control now. Focusing on stuff like this just gives you an excuse to quit, which is tempting under this pressure. Don’t give in to that. This would be bad if you wanted to do ortho or something. But this is literally the least competitive specialty.

I have friends who’ve remediated a course or repeated a year and even though it sucked they’ll tell you they know more because of it and are better for it, and that’s the point. I hope that was your experience.

I’d be hesitant to ask reddit or sdn for advice on how well you need to do on step 1 bc the responses will probably be insanely high and unrealistic which will only add to your anxiety. I’ve literally seen people on this site suggest a US MD do a research year to match Peds bc they had a 220 ish step 1; which is absolutely ridiculous. Your goal should be to do your best plain and simple no matter what that may be. You owe it to yourself after these two years of hell to give it your all.

 

[Karen4317]

The failures certainly can’t help, but worrying about that now is pointless. What’s done is done. Focus on what you can control now. Focusing on stuff like this just gives you an excuse to quit, which is tempting under this pressure. Don’t give in to that. This would be bad if you wanted to do ortho or something. But this is literally the least competitive specialty.

I have friends who’ve remediated a course or repeated a year and even though it sucked they’ll tell you they know more because of it and are better for it, and that’s the point. I hope that was your experience.

I’d be hesitant to ask reddit or sdn for advice on how well you need to do on step 1 bc the responses will probably be insanely high and unrealistic which will only add to your anxiety. I’ve literally seen people on this site suggest a US MD do a research year to match Peds bc they had a 220 ish step 1; which is absolutely ridiculous. Your goal should be to do your best plain and simple no matter what that may be. You owe it to yourself after these two years of hell to give it your all.

thank youuu! and you are s right, I can't change the past..just need to learn from it and keep moving forward. If anything, it should just make me more motivated moving forward this was exactly what I needed to hear ☺️❤️

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

You’ll be fine, especially if you want to do peds. There’s people that fail preclinical classes, repeat a year, fail a COMLEX, fail a COMAT, fail a rotation, go to a Caribbean school, and still end up matching. If you can pass all your preclinical classes, you can pass COMLEX, but this idea about rocking boards might be a stretch. Do well on your peds rotation, get a good letter in peds, try to do some research in something peds related, write up a peds case report, and apply to a ton of peds programs and you’ll end up happy!

 

[FistLength]

Your third year and fourth year rotations in pediatrics will be very important for you. They will see what is on the paper but a strong performance can overwhelm any academic fears a PD might have.

Regarding boards and classes, it will be important to diagnose why you failed. I don't believe anyone is not intelligent enough to pass, usually it is something else. Either did not commit enough time for studying or horrific studying habits (on the phone, youtube on, facebook open while studying), terrible test taking skills, etc.

 

[Karen4317]

Your third year and fourth year rotations in pediatrics will be very important for you. They will see what is on the paper but a strong performance can overwhelm any academic fears a PD might have.

Regarding boards and classes, it will be important to diagnose why you failed. I don't believe anyone is not intelligent enough to pass, usually it is something else. Either did not commit enough time for studying or horrific studying habits (on the phone, youtube on, facebook open while studying), terrible test taking skills, etc.

thank you for the help! I think you may have misread, but I still have to take step 1! so hopefully I can help make up for my poor performance first and second year with that as well, yes?

 

[FistLength]

thank you for the help! I think you may have misread, but I still have to take step 1! so hopefully I can help make up for my poor performance first and second year with that as well, yes?

I understand you have to take your boards. You could probably make a fare attempt at convincing someone those grades don't represent you if you do well on boards. Knowing why you failed the classes will be important, and you will have to explain to interviewers at some point. They will want to know what you did to change.

 

[Roxas]

Hi everybody!
I am currently an M2 studying for boards and at times I feel like my chances at residency are very low, which has been discouraging me quite a lot! I failed two classes for preclinical, but successfully passed remediation. My dean told me that on the Dean's letter they will write specifically something along those lines "student was able to pass upon remediation of course." Most of the students in my class and my friends are super gunners (and I applaud them for that!) but they make it seem like even one failure is the end of the world, let alone two.
I'm currently interested in pediatric residency, and I just really want to focus on what I can control in the future, rather than my two failures in the past. If I do well on my boards and third year, do I still have a chance at landing a decent pediatric residency? Also, if anybody has been in a similar situation as mine, any support would help! How well do you guys think I should do in terms of step 1?

Hey,

fwiw I also failed 2 classes during preclinical. Passed all comlex exams on first attempt but my scores were below average. Didn't take Step (probably the thing I would do differently if I could go back). Applied for residency in psych but didn't match and SOAPed into FM. I was pretty heartbroken, but it makes me feel a little better that of the 20-ish from my school that didn't match, 7 of us applied for psych and not many of them had red flags like mine. To my knowledge a board failure, rotation failure, or professionalism issues are a much bigger red flag than failed preclinical courses. I don't think peds is out of your reach at all. Taking the USMLE will help, as well as killing your auditions. You're down but not out.

Good luck!

 

[Karen4317]

Hey,

fwiw I also failed 2 classes during preclinical. Passed all comlex exams on first attempt but my scores were below average. Didn't take Step (probably the thing I would do differently if I could go back). Applied for residency in psych but didn't match and SOAPed into FM. I was pretty heartbroken, but it makes me feel a little better that of the 20-ish from my school that didn't match, 7 of us applied for psych and not many of them had red flags like mine. To my knowledge a board failure, rotation failure, or professionalism issues are a much bigger red flag than failed preclinical courses. I don't think peds is out of your reach at all. Taking the USMLE will help, as well as killing your auditions. You're down but not out.

Good luck!

thank you for the motivation and great advice! It's so nice to hear from someone from the other side, who has been through it all! I understand exactly how you must have felt, but I'm sure you're killing it in FM!

 

[Splenda88]

You certainly can match pathology, FM, Peds or community IM in that order of difficulty assuming you will pass step1/2 in 1st attempt. You won't need to score high (200+ for step1/215+ step2 should be fine)

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I’d be hesitant to ask reddit or sdn for advice on how well you need to do on step 1 bc the responses will probably be insanely high and unrealistic which will only add to your anxiety. I’ve literally seen people on this site suggest a US MD do a research year to match Peds bc they had a 220 ish step 1; which is absolutely ridiculous. Your goal should be to do your best plain and simple no matter what that may be. You owe it to yourself after these two years of hell to give it your all.

So true. According to SDN unless you break 250 you can't do anything except Rural FM, community peds, or community IM. Even psych and PMR are out according to SDN now. 🙄 And those are for USMDs lol, if you're a DO you better know a PD somewhere if you want to match at all below a 240.

 

[Karen4317]

So true. According to SDN unless you break 250 you can't do anything except Rural FM, community peds, or community IM. Even psych and PMR are out according to SDN now. 🙄 And those are for USMDs lol, if you're a DO you better know a PD somewhere if you want to match at all below a 240.

you guys are rightt sometimes the expectations are a little next level on here

 

[ciestar]

So true. According to SDN unless you break 250 you can't do anything except Rural FM, community peds, or community IM. Even psych and PMR are out according to SDN now. 🙄 And those are for USMDs lol, if you're a DO you better know a PD somewhere if you want to match at all below a 240.

SDN blows things way out of proportion for sure. I will be a bad physician because my step 1 score isnt the best. K.

Psych, though, has gotten really tough the past few years.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

SDN blows things way out of proportion for sure. I will be a bad physician because my step 1 score isnt the best. K.

Psych, though, has gotten really tough the past few years.

While I was on my hiatus I saw you post somewhere about your score being too low for OB. I remember you posting about your score when you got it and I looked at charting outcomes and you would have an excellent chance at OB if you went for it and applied broadly. Wanted to tell you that. Don't let your score inhibit you from going for OB if that's really what you want. If it were like plastics then yeah but not OB. As a USMD you have a pretty good shot even with your score.

Psych is both tough and easy at the same time. Psych will always select for the people who truly "fit" and love the field over people with high scores, and lately more people that fit AND have high scores are applying it seems but if someone truly loves psych they should go for it regardless because psych weighs that very heavily (assuming they passed boards on the first try and have minimal class hiccups).

 

[ciestar]

While I was on my hiatus I saw you post somewhere about your score being too low for OB. I remember you posting about your score when you got it and I looked at charting outcomes and you would have an excellent chance at OB if you went for it and applied broadly. Wanted to tell you that. Don't let your score inhibit you from going for OB if that's really what you want. If it were like plastics then yeah but not OB. As a USMD you have a pretty good shot even with your score.

Psych is both tough and easy at the same time. Psych will always select for the people who truly "fit" and love the field over people with high scores, and lately more people that fit AND have high scores are applying it seems but if someone truly loves psych they should go for it regardless because psych weighs that very heavily (assuming they passed boards on the first try and have minimal class hiccups).

OB apparently is becoming more competitive (as with, well, everything) I’ve read. I cannot really apply as broadly as I’d otherwise like. I am trying to really figure it out ASAP. I hope my CK score doesn’t equally suck.

Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it!

 

[Karen4317]

OB apparently is becoming more competitive (as with, well, everything) I’ve read. I cannot really apply as broadly as I’d otherwise like. I am trying to really figure it out ASAP. I hope my CK score doesn’t equally suck.

Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it!

you got thisss! good luck with your journey!! 🙂

 

[Goro]

Hi everybody!
I am currently an M2 studying for boards and at times I feel like my chances at residency are very low, which has been discouraging me quite a lot! I failed two classes for preclinical, but successfully passed remediation. My dean told me that on the Dean's letter they will write specifically something along those lines "student was able to pass upon remediation of course." Most of the students in my class and my friends are super gunners (and I applaud them for that!) but they make it seem like even one failure is the end of the world, let alone two.
I'm currently interested in pediatric residency, and I just really want to focus on what I can control in the future, rather than my two failures in the past. If I do well on my boards and third year, do I still have a chance at landing a decent pediatric residency? Also, if anybody has been in a similar situation as mine, any support would help! How well do you guys think I should do in terms of step 1?

Even with red flags like these, you should be fine for Peds. I've had students who not only failed, but had to take a leave of absence and still matched.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Agree with the above posters, definitely apply AND get strong letters from both Peds, Psych, AND more importantly, IM. Peds attendings will sense who would make a great pediatrician and if you enjoy working with kids, and will also comment on your outpatient emphathy, and an IM attending can help by commenting on your strong inpatient hospital-medicine skills (plus, all kids become adults 😉 , so general medicine can apply to all ages) so having letters from both fields matters a lot. Lastly, apply broadly and have back-ups such as FM, especially with the current match competitiveness era.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

While I was on my hiatus I saw you post somewhere about your score being too low for OB. I remember you posting about your score when you got it and I looked at charting outcomes and you would have an excellent chance at OB if you went for it and applied broadly. Wanted to tell you that. Don't let your score inhibit you from going for OB if that's really what you want. If it were like plastics then yeah but not OB. As a USMD you have a pretty good shot even with your score.

Psych is both tough and easy at the same time. Psych will always select for the people who truly "fit" and love the field over people with high scores, and lately more people that fit AND have high scores are applying it seems but if someone truly loves psych they should go for it regardless because psych weighs that very heavily (assuming they passed boards on the first try and have minimal class hiccups).

I'd rather you not dilute yourself with this crap. Psych wants MDs from fancy programs, good pubs, have good boards, and will during the interview preform. I had PDs who told me I was the perfect fit, borderline begged me to attend, and mutually stated enthusiastic that this was a program I wanted to go to, blow me off to accept an entire class of MDs.

My medicine interviews were far more interested in an actual fit than any of my psych interviews.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'd rather you not dilute yourself with this crap. Psych wants MDs from fancy programs, good pubs, have good boards, and will during the interview preform. I had PDs who told me I was the perfect fit, borderline begged me to attend, and mutually stated enthusiastic that this was a program I wanted to go to, blow me off to accept an entire class of MDs.

My medicine interviews were far more interested in an actual fit than any of my psych interviews.

I'm sorry that happened to you, doesn't change the fact that charting outcomes says otherwise.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm sorry that happened to you, doesn't change the fact that charting outcomes says otherwise.

Charting outcomes is not god and I'm going to say please prove me wrong for your benefit. Eitherway I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything. But if you apply psych next year you need to be cool with attending a low tier place and you should do everything in your power to make it seem like you breath and **** psychiatry. Because half of the academic places I interviewed at the fact that I was a DO meant my application was largely a joke and there is either a soft quota on DOs or they won't accept a DO over an MD.

And don't be sorry for me. I can honestly say that not matching was while initially a horrible blow to my ego, it has since been a breathe of relief. I had begun to have doubts and misgivings about psychiatry by dec of the last year. And in the end I matched a solid IM program and I'm happy with things now.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Charting outcomes is not god and I'm going to say please prove me wrong for your benefit. Eitherway I'm not trying to dissuade you or anything. But if you apply psych next year you need to be cool with attending a low tier place and you should do everything in your power to make it seem like you breath and **** psychiatry. Because half of the academic places I interviewed at the fact that I was a DO meant my application was largely a joke and there is either a soft quota on DOs or they won't accept a DO over an MD.

And don't be sorry for me. I can honestly say that not matching was while initially a horrible blow to my ego, it has since been a breathe of relief. I had begun to have doubts and misgivings about psychiatry by dec of the last year. And in the end I matched a solid IM program and I'm happy with things now.

I have no interest in psych whatsoever, but know people who applied and matched this past cycle. While charting outcomes may not be god, it is hard data that shows exactly what is going on with the application pool in general. No it may not be generalizable to any one candidate.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I have no interest in psych whatsoever, but know people who applied and matched this past cycle. While charting outcomes may not be god, it is hard data that shows exactly what is going on with the application pool in general. No it may not be generalizable to any one candidate.

I think there's a lot at play that statistics don't cover. But that's beyond the point. I think it's important to approach matching mindful of the fact that as DOs we are fundamentally second class citizens in the limbo between no name MD programs and Caribs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I think there's a lot at play that statistics don't cover. But that's beyond the point. I think it's important to approach matching mindful of the fact that as DOs we are fundamentally second class citizens in the limbo between no name MD programs and Caribs.

Definitely agree. I have decided that simply matching the specialty I want is the goal, if I match a particular program or end up at a program high on my list then that is just bonus.

 

[Deecee2DO]

If you just want to be a practicing pediatrician you are fine! Just do the best you can on boards your career is certainly not over. Peds is not competitive at all. Failing two courses is not good, but having to repeat M1 or having a board failure under your belt is much much worse so think about it that way. You had a hiccup, just keep plugging away and know that if you work hard you'll be a pediatrician in the future. Good luck!

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

You certainly can match pathology, FM, Peds or community IM in that order of difficulty assuming you will pass step1/2 in 1st attempt. You won't need to score high (200+ for step1/215+ step2 should be fine)

How is FM more difficult than path? Also, what happened to the grades don't matter crowd?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How is FM more difficult than path? Also, what happened to the grades don't matter crowd?

No one has ever said failing classes doesn't matter.....

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

No one has ever said failing classes doesn't matter.....

Don't your remediated grades replace the failing ones?

 

[Deecee2DO]

How is FM more difficult than path? Also, what happened to the grades don't matter crowd?

Pre-clinical grades intrinsically don't matter, yet they correlate with board scores. Failing a class or two is not lethal to your medical career if you aren't picky with specialties but it definitely matters. It is a position you don't want to be in if you can help it

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Don't your remediated grades replace the failing ones?

Yes. And on your transcript it usually shows you failed and then successfully mediated.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

You can match Peds if you take and pass step and comlex. I know a DO who matched university Med/Peds in NY with 3 pre clinical failures and a below average step and comlex (30-40%ile). No connections to the program either.

 

[Splenda88]

How is FM more difficult than path? Also, what happened to the grades don't matter crowd?

Pathology is having a hard time recruiting US students because of a difficult job market...

 

[Deecee2DO]

You can match Peds if you take and pass step and comlex. I know a DO who matched university Med/Peds in NY with 3 pre clinical failures and a below average step and comlex (30-40%ile). No connections to the program either.

Med-peds? damn haha university med-peds is decently competitive. Med-peds is more competitive than IM and university med-peds is even more competitive. No ties at all? Kinda impressive

 

[Karen4317]

You can match Peds if you take and pass step and comlex. I know a DO who matched university Med/Peds in NY with 3 pre clinical failures and a below average step and comlex (30-40%ile). No connections to the program either.

ooh that's so good to hear, since I am from NY and kind of hope to stay here after graduation

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

I know a DO who matched university Med/Peds in NY with 3 pre clinical failures and a below average step and comlex (30-40%ile). No connections to the program either.

lol... so bad.