failing as a non-trad applicant

[bubbleyum]

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has anybody seen that anti-marijuana commercial where a potted-out girl is sitting on her sofa with a friend(her friend is complaining about what pot did to her used-to-be-fun friend), and she looks like a puddle of draped over the sofa cushions?? well, that's how i feel.

dealing with failure as a non-trad i think is much worse than applying straight out of college and not getting in. after all the sacrifices, having no life, spending all your free time and money on books/classes/application fees, you have to deal with adcoms questioning your motivations of switching careers. don't they realize that every day that we sit there memorizing plant phyla(nothing to do with medicine) and writing research papers about beans(??) while other people are having a life, we are proving our dedication. with every check that we write that does not come from daddy's bank account we are doing it because we think it's worth it!

but now i feel so burnt out the thought of retaking the mcat again just gives me a brain-ache. also, being 30 years old and wondering gosh can i even afford the time to reapply for another few years is depressing. i thought i did everything i could and only had 2 interviews, one straight out rejection(fastest ever - 3 weeks!) and one rejection-to-come(most horrible interview ever.) i took the april mcat and scored 30. i took all the post-bac classes, even biochem, and have a 3.8 bcpm gpa(my overall is 3.4). i spend all my free time studying and volunteering 7 hours every saturday at the hospital. i applied to 20 schools early.

i don't know what else to do(besides retake the mcat) that will even help me next cycle. all the rejections make me feel like i am *this* small and nothing i do will be good enough.
I AM DEPRESSED!!! ugh ugh ugh.

ok. sorry for ranting. i am at work and don't feel motivated to do work and thinking about this whole process is making me frustrated. anybody else feel this way?

 

[ShyRem]

Yes. I do have a DO acceptance that is saving me from total depression, however. But I do have to say, bubbleyum, that 30 isn't that old. Heck, I'm going to be 39 this year. I only had one allo interview, but I've had four osteo interview invites.

I know DO isn't for everyone. But my end goal is to be the a physician, and the best darn physician I can, and to me the initials after my name don't matter in that goal.

Hang in there, bubbleyum. I'll be overwhelmed and underappreciated with you. 😳

 

[efex101]

I am not sure where you are getting that non-trads for the most part face an uphill battle. I have NOT been questioned ONCE about why medicine and I was much older than you...so not sure if you have experienced this yourself or you are going by the "rumor mill of SDN". There are MANY non-trads getting in go to oldpremeds.org and see for yourself. That said, maybe some non-trads with soso GPA from long ago *and* soso GPA from now ARE facing an uphill battle (not insinuating this is your case btw) but that is to expect no?

 

[MJB]

Probably dealing with KU Med.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

((bubbleyum)) I so hear ya. I agree, we nontrads have more to lose after an unsuccessful cycle. For one, we damage our current careers by all our other activities (and yeah, employers don't want to promote someone who's planning on leaving in a year or two). Two, it's freaking expensive. I don't know how I could afford it for a second year, and it affects our families. It also stops us from doing things like settling down, buying houses, having kids, etc. that our peers our doing, which frankly sucks.

Anyway, I'm very sorry. I'm with Shyrem that applying DO might be the thing to do next year. Unless you really want to do opthal or derm, having a DO doesn't close any significant doors. I didn't consider not applying DO this year one because I think the philosophy and two because I felt like I absolutely had to get in because of all those sacrifices of applying. Also, don't give up hope on your cr@ppy interview. I thought my one allopathic interview was a total trainwreck and yet I got admitted with a scholarship. Even if it doesn't pan out, Shyrem's also right that 30's young -- you still have lots of time.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I am not sure where you are getting that non-trads for the most part face an uphill battle. I have NOT been questioned ONCE about why medicine and I was much older than you...so not sure if you have experienced this yourself or you are going by the "rumor mill of SDN". There are MANY non-trads getting in go to oldpremeds.org and see for yourself. That said, maybe some non-trads with soso GPA from long ago *and* soso GPA from now ARE facing an uphill battle (not insinuating this is your case btw) but that is to expect no?

How is this a helpful post? Really, Efex, sometimes it's good to actually read a post and try to figure out what a person is saying before jumping into a lecture. 🙄

 

[MJB]

I might freak out on the interview if put in the position of the original poster...

To question the desire of a non-trad vs. a kid fresh out of undergrad is ridiculously stupid, in my opinion.

 

[blee]

Applying to medical school as a non-traditional applicant is generaly much riskier than doing the same as a college senior. At 28, I'm hardly considered old in this forum, but I have my share of "real life" responsbilities: wife, mortgage, dog, three-month-old (not necessarily in that order 😉). I had all of these, except for the daughter, when I decided to go back to school. I also had a comfortable and well-paying job, the absence of which cut our gross income by just over half.

The price for failing to get into medical school at 22? Not a whole lot. The price for doing the same in my position? Well, I've got a career that was stalled for two years, a significant pile of educational loans that now must be repaid, and absolutely nothing to show to potential employers to prove my worth or value, particularly during my "sabbatical." I realized that there was no turning back once I gave my two weeks notice in 2004. The truth, of course, is that I'm smart enough and flexible enough to find a decent job, but what a price I would have paid for pursuing med school in the meantime.

bubbleyum -- I can't say that I've been in your position, but I know what you've got on the line and I can imagine the frustration. All I can tell you is that you've got to re-focus and keep your head down. If you are still sure you want to be a physician, you can find it within yourself to keep going and find out what needs to be improved for the next application cycle. If you're having doubts, then this is a great time to do some soul-searching. I know it would seem like a big waste to "give up," but I know that I would at least go back to work knowing that I gave medicine my best shot.

 

[MJB]

This thread, and this thread alone is why I'm really hoping to secure admittance before having to cut ties with my current employer. I'm already working for one of the best companies in my field...and if I give it up only to be denied my dream...I will likely not forgive myself.

I know I'm biased, but I simply cannot figure out the logic an Adcom would have to use to think a 22 year old coming out of undergrad with equal "academic credentials" would be a better selection.

I can understand it to a point, but not to the point of questioning how much a person that has put their life (and often times their families lives) on hold, or at stake, chasing the dream of getting into Med School.

Talking to some of the students yesterday and hearing them say "why would you want to put yourself through this" made me realize just how little real world experience they have...

 

[blee]

This thread, and this thread alone is why I'm really hoping to secure admittance before having to cut ties with my current employer. I'm already working for one of the best companies in my field...and if I give it up only to be denied my dream...I will likely not forgive myself.

I know I'm biased, but I simply cannot figure out the logic an Adcom would have to use to think a 22 year old coming out of undergrad with equal "academic credentials" would be a better selection.

I can understand it to a point, but not to the point of questioning how much a person that has put their life (and often times their families lives) on hold, or at stake, chasing the dream of getting into Med School.

Talking to some of the students yesterday and hearing them say "why would you want to put yourself through this" made me realize just how little real world experience they have...

Sure, but what should it matter to an adcom how much you've got at stake? Perhaps risking a job, big house, etc. are indicators of just how much you want to be a doctor. But is there any way to prove that you want it more or less than an undergrad who busted his/her ass for four years, giving up Thursday night parties and crazy weekend trips to shady locations for a shot at an MD degree? 22-year-olds may lack life experience, but that doesn't mean they all lack desire. I did, and that's why I'm seven years late to the game. If a traditional applicant can put up strong numbers, chances are they're no worse or less positioned to become excellent physicians as we are.

 

[captainbsm]

What is the deal with the negative comments about the quality of a person's GPA? Does it really matter that much? No it doesn't. You have made it to your goal. Personality does matter. I have seen people time and time again do things in which they were said to not have a chance of doing.

I am not sure where you are getting that non-trads for the most part face an uphill battle. I have NOT been questioned ONCE about why medicine and I was much older than you...so not sure if you have experienced this yourself or you are going by the "rumor mill of SDN". There are MANY non-trads getting in go to oldpremeds.org and see for yourself. That said, maybe some non-trads with soso GPA from long ago *and* soso GPA from now ARE facing an uphill battle (not insinuating this is your case btw) but that is to expect no?

 

[thirdunity]

I'm in a similar position, myself, in some respects.

I'm 32. On the one hand, I'm closer to a traditional-age student in terms of juggling other responsibilities - I'm living with parents and saving money until I transfer to UC Davis; I have no significant debts or responsibilities; for the most part, I am able to work part time and go to school full time. My career through my 20s was a nonlaunch (I was a contractor in the dotcom world), resulting in my just going back to school at 28.

However, where I do face the crunch is in figuring out - when am I going to have kids? How will I ever fit it in? I don't even have time to date. Traditional age women have the option of waiting until their education is finished and their career is settled, but even if I got into medical school right out of college (and didn't have to do a Master's, or second bachelor's, or more undergrad coursework - I *really screwed up* in my early 20s and messed up my GPA), I still wouldn't be done with residency until my early 40s. I know women are having children older and older, but I don't *want* to wait that long if I have them at all.

It's a difficult position.

 

[MJB]

blee, please do not misunderstand me...I'm not saying a non-trad should be considered over a person fresh out of school...obviously, if I had applied myself and had it together enough to do this 8 years ago, I would be hacked if some 30 year old got a spot over me...but, it's this stuff, like the OP brough up...that really hacks me off...

you have to deal with adcoms questioning your motivations of switching careers

Why in the WORLD would they do this? If anyone thinks I'd rather spend my time and money taking these classes, shadowing, and volunteering than buying a boat, spending time at the lake, or having kids with my wife and settling down...sorry, they're nuts. Now, I enjoy doing most of those things, but I'm not doing it for fun, either. Make sense?

I just don't understand what the relevance is, but I've seen/heard from Med Schools (moreso MD than DO) that actually look down on making a career change to pursue Med School.

If I wanted to switch careers just to switch careers, I could go sell cars, work in a bank, or be a McDonald's manager...

 

[kimmcauliffe]

has anybody seen that anti-marijuana commercial where a potted-out girl is sitting on her sofa with a friend(her friend is complaining about what pot did to her used-to-be-fun friend), and she looks like a puddle of draped over the sofa cushions?? well, that's how i feel.

Yes, and I HATE it, it's f*cking scary. Gives me night terrors.

Hang in there, everyone experiences the lulls, you'll have more than one episode of them.

 

[remo]

Why in the WORLD would they do this? If anyone thinks I'd rather spend my time and money taking these classes, shadowing, and volunteering than buying a boat, spending time at the lake, or having kids with my wife and settling down...sorry, they're nuts. Now, I enjoy doing most of those things, but I'm not doing it for fun, either. Make sense?

I just don't understand what the relevance is, but I've seen/heard from Med Schools (moreso MD than DO) that actually look down on making a career change to pursue Med School.

If I wanted to switch careers just to switch careers, I could go sell cars, work in a bank, or be a McDonald's manager...

I think from the adcomm's point of view they are taking a bigger risk with a non-trad because since we've already been in other careers we could get into med school and then decide it's not worth the hassle and then walk away. Now this doesn't seem logical since we had to work so hard to get there but maybe when the workload and the reality of residency sets in we might change our minds. 22-year-olds don't know any better and once they're locked in to a career in medicine they're probably less likely to consider other alternatives. Just playing devil's advocate here...

 

[MJB]

Sure, but what should it matter to an adcom how much you've got at stake?

To answer this question, I think there are 2 ways of looking at it.


They are in the business of finding candidates they will be successfull in Medical School...so, you can either think that a person that lays it all on the line and interrupts their life to come back will be more likely to be successful because of what they have at stake...or...that they are actually less likely to be successful..BECAUSE they have so many irons in the fire, so to speak.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Bubbleyum, I hear ya. Hang in there. I went to pre-reqs with a fairly large group of other non-trads - several didn't make it in this year. As far as we've come, I certainly would try at least one more time. I did get in this year, but at age 43 it was a wild ride - you've got plenty of time. 🙂

I'm glad to hear from other people on this thread who are in the same position I was in. People assumed that, if I didn't get in, I'd just go back to my old job. That wouldn't have happened - I would have had to eventually leave - and I work for a hospital that was very supportive of my trying to get into med school. I have a professional job but my heart and my time have not been in it for the last two years - little overtime, no extra effort - I would hate to think about what trying to pick up the pieces would have been like. I could certainly have kissed any further promotions good-bye.

Bubbleyum, I don't think being aged 30 was a over-riding factor in your rejections - you're barely a non-trad by my standards! An MCAT of 30 is a tough call - but, I think the general wisdom is, 30 or higher - hold your cards. I saw a number of my friends go down in August and it's heartbreaking when your most recent score isn't your best - have you looked at the MCAT tables for test re-takers who had a 30? Before I re-took the MCAT, I would call the Admissions Directors of as many of your schools as I could to try to find out how your application could have been improved. They're usually willing to be honest.

I would rule-out two things before I ever considered re-taking with a 30: 1) Does my personal statement make my case for why I am coming to medicine later in life - and is it well-written and compelling? - 2) Are you absolutely certain none of your LORs are lukewarm?

I wish I had more advice - I really do respect your honesty. Hang in there, and good luck.

 

[efex101]

I am in NO way trying to lecture "anyone" about anything but just giving my honest opinion on some of the perceptions that might be floating around. I am also NOT trying to make anyone feel like **** because of a poor long ago GPA but just stating some issues that I have personally seen. My opinion is like any other opinion just that...an opinion. Sorry for posting on this thread will remove myself promptly.

 

[njbmd]

has anybody seen that anti-marijuana commercial where a potted-out girl is sitting on her sofa with a friend(her friend is complaining about what pot did to her used-to-be-fun friend), and she looks like a puddle of draped over the sofa cushions?? well, that's how i feel.

dealing with failure as a non-trad i think is much worse than applying straight out of college and not getting in. after all the sacrifices, having no life, spending all your free time and money on books/classes/application fees, you have to deal with adcoms questioning your motivations of switching careers. don't they realize that every day that we sit there memorizing plant phyla(nothing to do with medicine) and writing research papers about beans(??) while other people are having a life, we are proving our dedication. with every check that we write that does not come from daddy's bank account we are doing it because we think it's worth it!

but now i feel so burnt out the thought of retaking the mcat again just gives me a brain-ache. also, being 30 years old and wondering gosh can i even afford the time to reapply for another few years is depressing. i thought i did everything i could and only had 2 interviews, one straight out rejection(fastest ever - 3 weeks!) and one rejection-to-come(most horrible interview ever.) i took the april mcat and scored 30. i took all the post-bac classes, even biochem, and have a 3.8 bcpm gpa(my overall is 3.4). i spend all my free time studying and volunteering 7 hours every saturday at the hospital. i applied to 20 schools early.

i don't know what else to do(besides retake the mcat) that will even help me next cycle. all the rejections make me feel like i am *this* small and nothing i do will be good enough.
I AM DEPRESSED!!! ugh ugh ugh.

ok. sorry for ranting. i am at work and don't feel motivated to do work and thinking about this whole process is making me frustrated. anybody else feel this way?

Hi there,
The whole medical school admissions process is mind-bending and depressing but it is the only game in town at present. I wish I knew how to make the system better because I am part of the system. With all of the tweaking and twisting out there, it still remains a huge source of depression and angst that is totally unnecessary for anyone, traditional or non-traditional. There is so much of the process that is totally out of your control and that makes for easy feeling of helplessness and depression.

Without failure, how can you know success? That you did not get into medical school this year only says that you didn't get in this year. What about next year? What about the year after that? Your goal is to become a physician so keep plugging away. If you want this, then go after it and do not be deterred by timing.

That you did not get into medical school says nothing about you as a person or even as a future physician. To spend some time being depressed about not getting in is totally understandable. It is very understandable to mourn "what might have been this year". Take the time and go through whatever you need to go though but figure out how you are going to reach your goal. What you have now, is some time to take a jaundiced look at what you need and what you will change to make your application better for next year.

Your goal isn't any further away and most of the time, people who have struggled to get into medical school and with medical school turn out the be the best physicians. The struggle (though painful) makes you stronger. When you are sitting there in gross anatomy wondering how you are going to learn one more head and neck structure for the practical exam, it will be your memory of your struggle to get into medical school in the first place, that will keep you sitting there until you get the job done.

Not getting in to medical school is awful for both non-traditional and traditional. Everytime you get asked about your dedication to medicine on a future interview, you can certainly point to how you immediately re-applied because you KNOW that medicine is what you want for your life. This is actually what you want to emphasize and re-emphasize in your re-application and this will work in your favor. There are many people who DO give up when they are closer than they think.

It isn't so much about the cards you are dealt in life but how you play them. Play this one to every advantage for next year when you feel like it. Above all, you have time to be depressed, angry and whatever else before those pesky deadlines come around again. You came close enough this year, go over the top next year and remember that you are NOT starting from Ground Zero. You have this experience to add to your resume.

njbmd 🙂

 

[medworm]

Hang in there, bubbleyum. Being non-trad really stinks, b/c you give up so much more than the average trad. Please go relax, watch a movie, or do something fun. Regardless of whether you get in this year or next, you still have to enjoy life today. And if you don't get in this year, go DO next year.

On that note, let me share a funny story with everyone. Being an aunt and single, I spent last Friday evening babysitting my 3 year old nephew with pizza. The little guy started weeding out from his slice the veggie toppings that he didn't like. I figured, well, he has a history of being fussy ... so nevermind, right? Next thing I know, he picks up his left foot and starts chewing on his sock!

I was horrified! "Ohmigod! Why are you chewing on your sock?" He replies, "But I'm hungry... " I froze for a moment and was really baffled by that statement. But since I couldn't make sense of what's going on in his little head, I just replied "Well, don't do that in school and don't tell anyone I taught you that okay?!"

Long story short, it turns out that his sock was inside out with little stray "whiskers" sticking out from the sides, and he just suddenly had the impulse to chew them off! Needless to say, I cut them free with a pair of scissors and we're no longer related (j/k).

 

[QofQuimica]

Bubbleyum, I agree with the other posters that it doesn't sound like your stats are the problem. Have you contacted any of the schools that rejected you for advice? This would be the place to start, because you can't fix whatever problem there is with your application until you know what the problem is. State schools are especially helpful in this regard. You live in Atlanta; are you a GA resident? If so, I recommend that when you are ready to deal with this whole application process again, you should get in touch with whomever is the admissions director at UGA and work closely with this person over the next year. I did this at USF, UF, and U Miami here in FL, and all three of these admissions directors gave me a ton of very helpful advice. Plus, I then had contacts at all three schools so that when I did anything (sent an update, submitted my AMCAS or my secondary), I could email these people and let them know to be expecting my application.

I honestly believe that doing this made me infinitely more competitive than I would have been otherwise. No pre-med advisor in the world is going to give as good of advice as the admissions director of a medical school does. Also, I don't know if UGA does this, but both UF and USF have "diversity offices" that will also help non-trad applicants. I was able to get someone to read my PS at each school and make suggestions about how I could improve it, for example. They made me scrap my first attempt and start over, and while it hurt to hear their comments, I think that they were ultimately right that my first essay was too risky and therefore not appropriate.

At any rate, if med school is what you want to do, please don't give up. Whatever problem there is with your app is not insurmountable; you just have to find out what the schools didn't like about your app and then you will know what to do to avoid that problem this time. Best of to you.

 

[bubbleyum]

thanks guys for your commisery and words of advice.
right now i am just wallowing in my depression/frustration, however immature it may seem. and then in a few weeks, after i get the final rejection letter from my lone state school, i will wallow in it again for another week or so.
then i will pick myself up and evaluate what i need to do for the next cycle.

so no, i am not going to give up! not like that.

and it's not that i think non-traditionals deserve to get into med school more than traditional college-grads, or that they're not as upset and depressed when faced with a string of rejections. i was just ranting from my own personal experience. at the first interview i had, they asked me if i would be able to handle a full school load since i haven't had to in 9 years, and the pre-reqs i took were more like 2 classes per semester. i felt like they don't understand that it's not easier than being a full-time student. we as non-trads have full-time jobs to go to, clients to please, bills to pay, and taxes to file. we do not have summer vacation to just take off 3 months and study for the mcat, etc, and if we have time to study after we leave work at 7pm, it's almost like a luxury. "lucky me, i don't have any commitments tonight after work i can just go study!" and i truly think non-trads have more pressure on them to get perfect grades(maybe to make up for poorer undergrad records.)

also i am a graphic designer who works for a big corporate company. i mainly work on websites, other user interfaces, and developing new wi-fi applications. on my amcas i put that my father is a doctor and my mother is an artist(she is an oil painter.) as i was leaving my interviewer's office, the parting comment i received was "interesting to see how you ended up following both your parents' careers." now, maybe i am reading too much into this, and i didn't want to turn around and respond aggresively to this comment, but after i left this comment really bothered me. i felt like she was implying that i am changing my careers like i was copying my parents with no real motivation or direction of my own. first of all, what i do for a living is VERY different from painting landscapes with oils on canvas! and if i was to copy my dad's career in medicine, because of pressure or whatnot, i would have done that a loooong time ago in college. it is actually one of the reasons why i think i came LATE to choosing medicine, because i didn't want to be a blind follower.

one of the top reasons why applicants get rejected is because their motivations are thought to not be sincere. so after i got rejected in record time, i just knew that had to be the reason. (no i haven't contacted my interviewer to confirm this yet. i will probably do this once the whole cycle runs down for this year.) at my second interview as well, i was asked questions along the same line. "so, why do you want to change your career NOW??" and it's like you reeeeaally have to convince them. why?? a 22-yr old can come in and just say "i've wanted to be a doctor since i was 10 years old." and that's not questioned at all.

in terms of my mcat, we shall see, part of me thinks that this has got to be part of the reason why i got rejected pre-interview from so many places. i just feel like i don't seem "special" enough on paper and that everything about my application said "ok, but not stellar." and also a large part of me refuses to think that i didn't get in this cycle because my stats are good enough but i suck as a person. hah.

i think i may pay for professional advice this time around as well, because as a non-traditional another issue i had was that there were no advisors to really help me. and people who "proofread" my pesonal statement were just friends who were good with english, not people critiqueing from an adcom standpoint.

anyways... wow this was a long-winded post! if anybody reads it 😛 (ok, back to my job that will feed me for another year while i apply again.)

 

[MJB]

they asked me if i would be able to handle a full school load since i haven't had to in 9 years, and the pre-reqs i took were more like 2 classes per semester. i felt like they don't understand that it's not easier than being a full-time student. we as non-trads have full-time jobs to go to, clients to please, bills to pay, and taxes to file. we do not have summer vacation to just take off 3 months and study for the mcat, etc,

My thoughts exactly. I honestly don't understand this mentality that some of them seem to have.

I actually look FORWARD to Med School...because I will be able to focus on my studies...and my studies alone...without worrying about wasting time at work! 🙂

 

[ShyRem]

Hey, bubble... Sometimes a good wallow in whatever you're feeling at the moment is good for you. Like a good cry is good for you. Just so you pick yourself up at the end (or dry your tears) and look for the new day.

At some point that light at the end of the tunnel has GOT to be the end and not an on-coming train! 🙂

 

[bubbleyum]

Hey, bubble... Sometimes a good wallow in whatever you're feeling at the moment is good for you. Like a good cry is good for you. Just so you pick yourself up at the end (or dry your tears) and look for the new day.

At some point that light at the end of the tunnel has GOT to be the end and not an on-coming train! 🙂

LOL, i wasn't even thinking about the possibility of a train! greeeeaaat, hah.

 

[QofQuimica]

and also a large part of me refuses to think that i didn't get in this cycle because my stats are good enough but i suck as a person. hah.

I don't know if you were specifically responding to what I wrote, but I just want to clarify that this isn't what I meant at all. I think that for most people (probably including you!) who have good stats but don't get accepted, the problem is with how you package and present yourself, not that you're not a worthy person. Presenting yourself in the best possible light is a skill like anything else. This kind of schmoozing is definitely not something that I am naturally good at, either. I've actually had people tell me that they think I'm really nice once they got to know me. They said that in fact, they were surprised to find out how nice I am, because before they got to know me, they thought I was snobby because I didn't ever talk to them. Basically I have had to learn to do things like take time to remember people's names, make small talk about the weather, etc. so that I don't have these perfect strangers convinced that I must hate them, when in fact I'm thinking about something else altogether.

My sister is a former TV reporter and now the director of public relations for a hospital, and she's taught me a lot about how important it is to be aware of how certain things I may say and do will appear to others. It's definitely necessary to BE sincere and to actually have a good reason to go to med school, but you also have to SEEM sincere and like you have a good reason to your interviewers, all of whom are perfect strangers and who do not have sufficient time to get to know the "real" you. I didn't suggest this yesterday, but you might also want to work with someone who can coach you on your interviewing skills. I did multiple mock interviews before going on my real ones, and again, this helps you seem more confident when you go for the real thing. It also makes you aware of whether you're unintentionally doing or saying things that interviewers might see as red flags.

 

[bubbleyum]

I don't know if you were specifically responding to what I wrote, but I just want to clarify that this isn't what I meant at all. I think that for most people (probably including you!) who have good stats but don't get accepted, the problem is with how you package and present yourself, not that you're not a worthy person. Presenting yourself in the best possible light is a skill like anything else. This kind of schmoozing is definitely not something that I am naturally good at, either. I've actually had people tell me that they think I'm really nice once they got to know me. They said that in fact, they were surprised to find out how nice I am, because before they got to know me, they thought I was snobby because I didn't ever talk to them. Basically I have had to learn to do things like take time to remember people's names, make small talk about the weather, etc. so that I don't have these perfect strangers convinced that I must hate them, when in fact I'm thinking about something else altogether.

My sister is a former TV reporter and now the director of public relations for a hospital, and she's taught me a lot about how important it is to be aware of how certain things I may say and do will appear to others. It's definitely necessary to BE sincere and to actually have a good reason to go to med school, but you also have to SEEM sincere and like you have a good reason to your interviewers, all of whom are perfect strangers and who do not have sufficient time to get to know the "real" you. I didn't suggest this yesterday, but you might also want to work with someone who can coach you on your interviewing skills. I did multiple mock interviews before going on my real ones, and again, this helps you seem more confident when you go for the real thing. It also makes you aware of whether you're unintentionally doing or saying things that interviewers might see as red flags.

hi Q,

no, what i said there was not in response to your advice. i agree that presentation skills plays a large part in the application process. i thought i may be ok in this dept, because i am pretty good at "talking" conversation-wise. but now with my two bad interviews, i have been proven wrong. i think in terms of med school interviews, the normal conversation skills are not what you need. in normal conversations, you have to be "responsive", and pick up on cues from the other person, if they are engaged or not. interviewers are different. the interviewer themself can be staring off or looking down at some piece of paper they are holding the whole time, seeming not interested at all, which normally would make you trail off or cut whatever you are saying short... you have to talk almost like you are talking to a brick wall, and be succint as well as come off personable!

i do think that there's something else that they don't like about me when they see me on paper. i didn't even get interviews at most of the schools i applied to. which is why i am thinking i need to make up for it by redoing my ps and getting a higher mcat score... and the vibe that i got from the interviews i did have was that they think i got bored with my job and decided to apply to med school?

and thanks for the advice about consulting the admissions directors. UGA actually is my undergrad alma mater but they don't have a med school. the only state school here is the one i am waiting to hear my final rejection from, so after i get it i will try and see if the admissions director will talk to me about why my file failed.

i am intimidated though! i think i have a fear of old men with white hair. i'm sure there's a phobia name for that too, hah.

 

[billermo]

My thoughts exactly. I honestly don't understand this mentality that some of them seem to have.

I actually look FORWARD to Med School...because I will be able to focus on my studies...and my studies alone...without worrying about wasting time at work! 🙂

EXACTLY. It will be great to focus on school and forget about work. I've taken all my science prereqs while working full time. What a hassle having to juggle my work & school schedule especially while traveling for business. Missing lectures, making up labs, rescheduling exams.

It took me 2 cycles but finally got accepted. I think persistence goes a long way with adcoms. It proves your passion and dedication to the profession.

I believe it's really important to do your research. Select schools that are non-traditional friendly. Some are....some are not.

Hang in there. If you want it bad enough, you'll get it. There's plenty of proof on this site.

 

[happydays]

From what you (bubbleyum) said, I think you should do the following:

1. Get someone experienced with the app process, whom you trust, to proof-read your PS. It's not all about the grammar, it's about the passion. Also ask about how to fill out the EC's.

2. Get professional interview help. I read everything I can get on "how to sell yourself." Plus, don't just "think" of an answer, actually say it outloud to yourself in the mirror. Get someone who knows about med school interviews to ask you questions. It's a tricky process, that's why some people claim it's "all random." It's "random" to them b/c they don't understand the tricks to the trade.

3. Don't take the MCAT again unless you're sure that you're looking at a 3+ pt improvement. It's really really bad if you take it again and do the same, or (god-forbid) worse.


Oh, and if a trad student said "I've wanted to be a doc since I was 2," that's an instantaneous rejection. Trad students have to spice it up in order to convey the same message that the more "mature" (see note) non-trads have to offer. (NOTE: Just because someone is older, it doesn't automatically make that person mature.)

 

[QuikClot]

My heart goes out to the OP and all others who have been unsucessful this round. Though we may enjoy comparing miseries, it can't be easy to be a hard-charging, type-A pre-med (as most of us are) and face, at the age of 22, their first real failure. And the young'uns, remember, have less experience in the world's real weather and are that much thinner-skinned.

Bottom line, it hurts to be rejected. And I agree that sometimes it seems like our experience isn't valued as it should be. I sometimes wish I could sit down some of those AdComs that gave me no love and say: "You think you know them? You think you can predict what they'll do? They don't know themselves. They've never had a rip-roaring hatefest with a boss or a coworker that they had to manage because they needed a paycheck. They've never worked 120 hours straight. They've never been fired. They've never had to tell a mother her baby's dead of SIDS. They've never tubed a trauma patient with a bad airway. They don't know what's it's like to be married . . . or lose their hair . . . or be broke -- not college-student broke, but broke. As in, where's the food?

"They may be able to handle the huge load of responsibility you are going to drop on them four years from today. They may be naturally endowed with empathy for people living with **** they never had to deal with. They may not respond to the frustration, the exhaustion and the pressure by devolving into MDeitities. But how can you know? And why would you want to roll the dice if you don't?"

My advisor in college liked to say that the minimum age to enroll in a Shakespeare class should be thirty, because someone under thirty has not had the experiences necessary to appreciate Shakespeare. It might not be realistic to apply that concept to medical school . . . but the thought has crossed my mind.

 

[Beau Geste]

My heart goes out to the OP and all others who have been unsucessful this round. Though we may enjoy comparing miseries, it can't be easy to be a hard-charging, type-A pre-med (as most of us are) and face, at the age of 22, their first real failure. And the young'uns, remember, have less experience in the world's real weather and are that much thinner-skinned.

Bottom line, it hurts to be rejected. And I agree that sometimes it seems like our experience isn't valued as it should be. I sometimes wish I could sit down some of those AdComs that gave me no love and say: "You think you know them? You think you can predict what they'll do? They don't know themselves. They've never had a rip-roaring hatefest with a boss or a coworker that they had to manage because they needed a paycheck. They've never worked 120 hours straight. They've never been fired. They've never had to tell a mother her baby's dead of SIDS. They've never tubed a trauma patient with a bad airway. They don't know what's it's like to be married . . . or lose their hair . . . or be broke -- not college-student broke, but broke. As in, where's the food?

"They may be able to handle the huge load of responsibility you are going to drop on them four years from today. They may be naturally endowed with empathy for people living with **** they never had to deal with. They may not respond to the frustration, the exhaustion and the pressure by devolving into MDeitities. But how can you know? And why would you want to roll the dice if you don't?"

My advisor in college liked to say that the minimum age to enroll in a Shakespeare class should be thirty, because someone under thirty has not had the experiences necessary to appreciate Shakespeare. It might not be realistic to apply that concept to medical school . . . but the thought has crossed my mind.

This is a great post 👍

This should count for much, much more!

 

[Raven Feather]

thanks guys for your commisery and words of advice.
right now i am just wallowing in my depression/frustration, however immature it may seem. and then in a few weeks, after i get the final rejection letter from my lone state school, i will wallow in it again for another week or so.
then i will pick myself up and evaluate what i need to do for the next cycle.

so no, i am not going to give up! not like that.

and it's not that i think non-traditionals deserve to get into med school more than traditional college-grads, or that they're not as upset and depressed when faced with a string of rejections. i was just ranting from my own personal experience. at the first interview i had, they asked me if i would be able to handle a full school load since i haven't had to in 9 years, and the pre-reqs i took were more like 2 classes per semester. i felt like they don't understand that it's not easier than being a full-time student. we as non-trads have full-time jobs to go to, clients to please, bills to pay, and taxes to file. we do not have summer vacation to just take off 3 months and study for the mcat, etc, and if we have time to study after we leave work at 7pm, it's almost like a luxury. "lucky me, i don't have any commitments tonight after work i can just go study!" and i truly think non-trads have more pressure on them to get perfect grades(maybe to make up for poorer undergrad records.)

also i am a graphic designer who works for a big corporate company. i mainly work on websites, other user interfaces, and developing new wi-fi applications. on my amcas i put that my father is a doctor and my mother is an artist(she is an oil painter.) as i was leaving my interviewer's office, the parting comment i received was "interesting to see how you ended up following both your parents' careers." now, maybe i am reading too much into this, and i didn't want to turn around and respond aggresively to this comment, but after i left this comment really bothered me. i felt like she was implying that i am changing my careers like i was copying my parents with no real motivation or direction of my own. first of all, what i do for a living is VERY different from painting landscapes with oils on canvas! and if i was to copy my dad's career in medicine, because of pressure or whatnot, i would have done that a loooong time ago in college. it is actually one of the reasons why i think i came LATE to choosing medicine, because i didn't want to be a blind follower.

one of the top reasons why applicants get rejected is because their motivations are thought to not be sincere. so after i got rejected in record time, i just knew that had to be the reason. (no i haven't contacted my interviewer to confirm this yet. i will probably do this once the whole cycle runs down for this year.) at my second interview as well, i was asked questions along the same line. "so, why do you want to change your career NOW??" and it's like you reeeeaally have to convince them. why?? a 22-yr old can come in and just say "i've wanted to be a doctor since i was 10 years old." and that's not questioned at all.

in terms of my mcat, we shall see, part of me thinks that this has got to be part of the reason why i got rejected pre-interview from so many places. i just feel like i don't seem "special" enough on paper and that everything about my application said "ok, but not stellar." and also a large part of me refuses to think that i didn't get in this cycle because my stats are good enough but i suck as a person. hah.

i think i may pay for professional advice this time around as well, because as a non-traditional another issue i had was that there were no advisors to really help me. and people who "proofread" my pesonal statement were just friends who were good with english, not people critiqueing from an adcom standpoint.

anyways... wow this was a long-winded post! if anybody reads it 😛 (ok, back to my job that will feed me for another year while i apply again.)

Did you in someway point that out to them? I think I would have said something like, "I am confident I am able to handle the courseload. Although on paper it appears that I was only taking 2 classes, I was also working 40+ hours paying bills and trying to save for medical school. I am a multitasker and I cannot wait until I enter medical school to focus all this currently dispersed energy to concentrating on my studies in med school."

I understand your frustration but I applied to DO schools and was accepted into every school I interviewed at. They tend to be more accepting on non-trad's lives. I worked part-time and went to school mostly part-time. I was never questioned.

I am suprised you didn't get in anywhere yet. Sure, your GPA isn't the absolute greatest, but it is not at the lower end for the ave. GPA of acceptees. DO NOT retake the MCAT--I don't see it as the problem. How many schools did you apply to?

 

[burntcrispy]

Don't feel bad. I'm a 4th year med student, 32yo non-traditinal type. Your GPA is better than mine was and so is your MCAT. I think I had about a 3.35 or so after taking an extra 2+ years of classes to try to boost it to that. MCAT was 29: Verbal 7, Sciences 11 each.

I wouldn't retake the MCAT. Seems like a waist of money and time and you're not guaranteed to improve.

I would agree with the option of applying to DO school. I applied to several DO schools and had interviews at all of them. I even considered Carribian schools as my final back up plan. I ended up at an allopathic school but wouldn't have thought twice about the other options.

As far as DO, it really doesn't make any difference at all unless you want Derm/Plastics etc.. kind of residency. Even then, many number ones of their allopathic classes don't get those spots either. I would definatley choose DO over Carribian school though. The residencies will generally take a DO over Carribian school pretty much every time.

Anyway, it all comes down to how badly you want to become a physician. There are many non-trads in my class and several people who applied a couple of times to get in. Hold you head up and do the best that you can. If you can find him on here somewhere, talk to OldManDave. He really helped me out way back in the process.

Good luck.

 

[emgirl]

I know I'm biased, but I simply cannot figure out the logic an Adcom would have to use to think a 22 year old coming out of undergrad with equal "academic credentials" would be a better selection.

Don't assume that all 22yos that are getting into med school have equal credentials to the OP- the fact that many 22yos are getting in while the OP is not, does not mean 22yos are favored simply because they are traditional applicants, it means they prob have *stronger academic and other credentials* than the OP, and as a non-trad myself I think the whole "life experience" issue here is way over-rated by those of us that have it- the bottom line is, med schools care about your grades, Mcat scores, and volunteer/shadowing/job experience- it is FANTASTIC if you can manage to be pre-med and have a wife, and kids, and a mortgage, but and I am not criticizing at all here, those are choices we make- we cannot use them as excuses for why we are not accepted and why we have more life experience than 22yos and thus should be given special treatment- heck there are lots of 22yos out there that have similar responsibilities and still manage to get great grades and into med school. My point is, that you just have to do the best you can and if you are not getting in, reassess your weaknesses but don't get hung up or angry because you think that 22yos with 3.2 gpas are getting in while you are not. We have to trust that most of those 22yos are well qualified in some way or another. Just focus on yourself and being the best applicant *you* can be, and if you don't get in, just know that there is some *randomness* in this process and keep trying and improving your app as best you can (easier said than done, I know!)

 

[blee]

Don't assume that all 22yos that are getting into med school have equal credentials to the OP- the fact that many 22yos are getting in while the OP is not, does not mean 22yos are favored simply because they are traditional applicants, it means they prob have *stronger academic and other credentials* than the OP, and as a non-trad myself I think the whole "life experience" issue here is way over-rated by those of us that have it- the bottom line is, med schools care about your grades, Mcat scores, and volunteer/shadowing/job experience- it is FANTASTIC if you can manage to be pre-med and have a wife, and kids, and a mortgage, but and I am not criticizing at all here, those are choices we make- we cannot use them as excuses for why we are not accepted and why we have more life experience than 22yos and thus should be given special treatment- heck there are lots of 22yos out there that have similar responsibilities and still manage to get great grades and into med school. My point is, that you just have to do the best you can and if you are not getting in, reassess your weaknesses but don't get hung up or angry because you think that 22yos with 3.2 gpas are getting in while you are not. We have to trust that most of those 22yos are well qualified in some way or another. Just focus on yourself and being the best applicant *you* can be, and if you don't get in, just know that there is some *randomness* in this process and keep trying and improving your app as best you can (easier said than done, I know!)

Here here, someone else who shares my somewhat unpopular point of view.

But back to the point of the thread -- I know a few people, non-trads and otherwise, who failed to get in at first attempt. If there's a positive to "failing," it's that the experience can really help you to decide how much you want to get into med school. About half of the bunch tried or are trying again, and the rest of them decided that medicine wasn't for them and went with something else. All of them seem to be pretty content with where they are.

 

[barasch]

Bubbleyum,

I read the whole thread and was moved.

I'm 31 now and am in a postbac program, so I completely empathize with your anxiety and rejection depression. I have yet to get a rejection (I'm not quite ready to apply yet), but as an older applicant, you have *a lot* more riding on each application you make.

After having read your post, I thought about it a little bit. I think retaking the MCAT might not be the best route. 30 is a decent score - it's the average score of students accepted to med school. If your grades are equally good, I'd look into changing up other facets of your application.

Volunteering: hospitals are great, shadowing is great, but they offer a very acute picture of healthcare. How about volunteering as part of a hospice team? Or at an adult day care? Or a domestic violence or homeless shelter (don't get too socialwork-y; we don't want an adcom to think you'd be a better social worker than doc)? These may seem a little off track, but they will help to flesh you out to an adcom as a compassionate care giver.

LORs: working at one of the above mentioned places could get you a chance to get a different kind of experience working with people who need help, but it also might get you a chance to shine in front of a supervisor who evaluates people and who might be able to turn in an excellent LOR.

PS: Take a look at other personal statements - sometimes there are books of them in the library. A personal statement should be personal - try to bring out here the qualities that make you different than other applicants. I would really, really scrutinize this portion of your application. Try to get the PS to complement your resume (do you need to submit a resume for an adcom?) and volunteer experiences. Show, with the personal statement, don't tell, how your life expereince has led you to this change and why your life expereince will make you a compassionate care giver who will have a full and productive career in medicine

Interviews: like others have said, a mock interview may not be a bad idea. you don't want to come off as artificial and 'canned', but you definitely want to be ready to answer 'why medicine? why now?' 'why this school?' 'why <insert vaguely discouraging or challenging question here> ?' 'what if you get sued for malpractice?' A mock interview is a great chance to practice delivering these questions. The mock interview may be a good idea, but walk the fine line between practice and canned insincerity carefully.

I'd also recommend for the next application that you schedule interviews at schools you're not interested in before you go to the schools you are interested in. That way you have some time to practice. With so much at stake, you (I know I have) freeze up in an interview and come off as 'more thoughtful than compassionate' (one dean told me that - a nice way of telling me that I was bombing the interview).

Academics: Have you already done biochem? How about an upper level bio class? I'd continue to do some bio stuff too - maybe you can even get with a professor who's doing some research and get a little bit of extra academic research experience (I can't remember if you've got research expereince, but if not research can really help your application).

Take care. Keep fighting. You knew this was possible the whole way through. Keep fighting. Show them you mean business.

 

[mustangsally65]

I've seen your posts around SDN, bubbleyum, and I'm truly sorry you're feeling so down and depressed.

Here's a perspective from a 24-year-old who isn't sure if she qualifies as a non-trad: 😛

I got my last rejection yesterday from the only school I interviewed at this cycle. It was my 11th rejection this year, and I'm a reapplicant (second year applying). I still have two schools to hear from, but with no interview invites I know for sure that I'm going to have to reapply.

Failure is almost unimaginable. You can't get your mind around it. Time stops and you become acutely aware of the years that lie ahead, not just for your training but the extra year that it will take to apply again. You think, four years of med school, at least three of residency (minimum), and it is really daunting. You want to give up. You think that it would be so much easier if you just got a 9-5 job and had weekends off for the rest of your life.

The difference is the passion. We all have different passions, and we all get different highs from the plethera of opportunities available in medicine. But one thing is the same: we don't give up. There is no other option besides medicine, no matter how long it takes. It's destiny, and it's your heart's one true longing in life.

You have to mourn for that year of your life that you've "lost." But then you later realize that it's not the end of the world and you will persevere. Many others have gone before us, and many more will come behind. You only have one shot in life to go after what you truly want and what you are meant to do, and you have to take it. Whether this happens at 22 or at 50, you have to follow your heart.

It won't be an easy road, but when it's all over it will be the most rewarding thing you have ever done in your life. Try to focus on the positives and chalk the negatives up to experience. I wish you the best of luck. You'll make it, it's not an issue of "if," but instead it's "when" you will get accepted.

 

[medtechv79]

To the OP: I read your post and feel for you! I am a non trad and even though I haven't started applying to any schools yet, listening to your story show's me the road ahead will not be easy! Hang in there! I agree with some of the other posters to brush up on your interview skills? maybe take some more advanced classes and volunteer more? I don't know about the MCAT. I heard a 30 and above is acceptable.

Also, maybe you should research more the schools you apply to and cater your application (likea resume) hahah. to tailor their needs.

My aunt is the same way when I tell her I want to go back to school (I'm looking into vet school) she is aretired doctor. SHe tells me why waste 4 years of your life when you could have kids. that's what lifes all about. You're already in your late 20's blah blah.....From the perspective of adcoms they may wonder why waste your next 10 years on something when you're already kinda old....but in a way its your life and life's too short not to achieve your goals not matter what age you may be.

Hang in there....grieve then apply again next year with stronger stats! Good Luck! and hey at least you got an interview right? Many applicants don't even get an interview! My friend got rejected from all her schools and got into a lower tier school.....b/c well don't take this bad she knew someone in admissions......and her MCAt score was lower than yours..........keep your head up!

 

[Gatewayhoward]

I'm drinking to forget that I have many more credits to go through than I anticipated. I mean i don't mind taking Or chem sooner, it doesn't scare me. But when I sober up I figuring it all out. If this wasn't the path for me, I'd just continue with my career and settle down now.

 

[bubbleyum]

hey guys,

thanks for all your advice and interest in my situation. i guess everybody here in this thread can sort of relate or at least sympathize with a similar experience.

do you all really think a 30 mcat is too good to not take again? that seems to be the consensus, but... and, i don't want anybody who has a below-30 mcat score to feel bad or inadequate. i am just saying for somebody in my situation who obviously does not have a good/successful application may have to do better to make up for it. i know everybody says "30 is good enough to get you into a med school." but i only have one state school, and from what i hear on these boards, all the mid-tier non-state schools(most of these are along the upper east coast.) seem to have an mcat CUT-OFF of 30 to even interview. and i know all these people with much higher stats apply to these same schools as "safeties."

i am going to also work on interview skills and a new ps. in terms of volunteer work, i currently spend my whole saturday (10am to 5pm) at the local hospital, and i don't know if i'll have time with work and classes, but may try to see if i can get more hours in. it's hard to find a doctor to shadow.

also what i've found is. a lot of doctor friends/aquaintances i know are not very helpful at all! they are all nice and friendly, but then as soon as they find out that you are applying to med school, they immediately become standoffish. what is up with that. like they think i'm gonna ask them for help. i mean, i might ask them what their experience had been like, and if they had any advice, but gosh. it's not like i asked to shadow them or write me a letter or talk to anybody they know on an admissions commitee or something. i find this attitude very strange! especialy the women doctors i know who you would think be more supportive. they are like, "you are applying to med school now? why would you wanna do that??"

 

[Beau Geste]

hey guys,

thanks for all your advice and interest in my situation. i guess everybody here in this thread can sort of relate or at least sympathize with a similar experience.

do you all really think a 30 mcat is too good to not take again? that seems to be the consensus, but... and, i don't want anybody who has a below-30 mcat score to feel bad or inadequate. i am just saying for somebody in my situation who obviously does not have a good/successful application may have to do better to make up for it. i know everybody says "30 is good enough to get you into a med school." but i only have one state school, and from what i hear on these boards, all the mid-tier non-state schools(most of these are along the upper east coast.) seem to have an mcat CUT-OFF of 30 to even interview. and i know all these people with much higher stats apply to these same schools as "safeties."

i am going to also work on interview skills and a new ps. in terms of volunteer work, i currently spend my whole saturday (10am to 5pm) at the local hospital, and i don't know if i'll have time with work and classes, but may try to see if i can get more hours in. it's hard to find a doctor to shadow.

also what i've found is. a lot of doctor friends/aquaintances i know are not very helpful at all! they are all nice and friendly, but then as soon as they find out that you are applying to med school, they immediately become standoffish. what is up with that. like they think i'm gonna ask them for help. i mean, i might ask them what their experience had been like, and if they had any advice, but gosh. it's not like i asked to shadow them or write me a letter or talk to anybody they know on an admissions commitee or something. i find this attitude very strange! especialy the women doctors i know who you would think be more supportive. they are like, "you are applying to med school now? why would you wanna do that??"

Apply wide and large. I'll take your 30 if you don't want it!

 

[QofQuimica]

do you all really think a 30 mcat is too good to not take again? that seems to be the consensus, but...

also what i've found is. a lot of doctor friends/aquaintances i know are not very helpful at all! they are all nice and friendly, but then as soon as they find out that you are applying to med school, they immediately become standoffish.

I think unless you have some reason to believe that you can signficantly raise your MCAT score (like, you came down with food poisoning in the middle of the test, or you had some kind of family or personal issue going on at that time that is now resolved, or you didn't study and/or were missing some of the pre-reqs the last time, or you realized that you misbubbled an entire section), you should not re-take. Our state schools here in FL have a 24 cut-off, not a 30. REL from USF actually told us that they prefer applicants who score 30 or better, but they still take people with scores in the mid to high twenties if the rest of the apps are good. You're already in that group! You also have to consider that SDN is not a real microcosm of the world. The national mean score on the MCAT is a 24. A score of 30 puts you in the top quartile of all test-takers. That's nothing to feel bad about!

As for the unsupportive doctor acquaintances, the solution there is much simpler: stop telling them. I'm not saying you should only talk to people who tell you what you want to hear, but don't entrust your precious dreams to people who don't care about them. Best of to you, bubbleyum. 🙂

 

[bubbleyum]

I think unless you have some reason to believe that you can signficantly raise your MCAT score (like, you came down with food poisoning in the middle of the test, or you had some kind of family or personal issue going on at that time that is now resolved, or you didn't study and/or were missing some of the pre-reqs the last time, or you realized that you misbubbled an entire section), you should not re-take. Our state schools here in FL have a 24 cut-off, not a 30. REL from USF actually told us that they prefer applicants who score 30 or better, but they still take people with scores in the mid to high twenties if the rest of the apps are good. You're already in that group! You also have to consider that SDN is not a real microcosm of the world. The national mean score on the MCAT is a 24. A score of 30 puts you in the top quartile of all test-takers. That's nothing to feel bad about!

As for the unsupportive doctor acquaintances, the solution there is much simpler: stop telling them. I'm not saying you should only talk to people who tell you what you want to hear, but don't entrust your precious dreams to people who don't care about them. Best of to you, bubbleyum. 🙂

i wish i was a florida resident! of course, not saying that i would get in for sure if i could even apply...

in terms of the lack of support and standoffishness from other doctors, just think their attitude is a little wierd. and when people act like that even before you even asked them for anything, it makes me feel like a leper or something! i've had people ask me to look over their portfolios ( for design) and fresh graduates ask opinions and pointers, and i've always been like, "sure!" and tried to be encouraging.

somebody told me that she heard from another friend who was in med school that a lot of these female doctors are very competitive, more so than male doctors. and that they may have this attitude like "hey i had to do all this hard work to get to this point all by myself. you should do it all on your own as well, and don't look to me or others for help or advice." i hope this is not true. because i totally believe in working hard for your own goals and not seeking handouts, shortcuts, or the easy way, but at the same time anybody who thinks they've achieved things in their life without any luck or help from anybody else, all on their own, is arrogant beyond belief.

 

[bubbleyum]

Apply wide and large. I'll take your 30 if you don't want it!

yeah... i applied to 21, all mid-tier (well, 4 of them were reach schools 😛 )
no success this cycle.

 

[QofQuimica]

i wish i was a florida resident! of course, not saying that i would get in for sure if i could even apply...

in terms of the lack of standoffishness from other doctors, just think their attitude is a little wierd. and when people act like that even before you even asked them for anything, it makes me feel like a leper or something! i've had people ask me to look over their portfolios ( for design) and fresh graduates ask opinions and pointers, and i've always been like, "sure!" and tried to be encouraging.

somebody told me that she heard from another friend who was in med school that a lot of these female doctors are very competitive, more so than male doctors. and that they may have this attitude like "hey i had to do all this hard work to get to this point all by myself. you should do it all on your own as well, and don't look to me or others for help or advice." i hope this is not true. because i totally believe in working hard for your own goals and not seeking handouts, shortcuts, or the easy way, but at the same time anybody who thinks they've achieved things in their life without any luck or help from anybody else, all on their own, is arrogant beyond belief.

Well, come on down, then. 🙂 We've already got four state med schools here, and there are rumors we're going to get another. Plus there's Miami, which gives heavy preference to Floridians, and two DO schools. I think that FL is a great state to be a resident of for a pre-med.

I've heard that idea about successful women too. I don't know if it's true or not, but I think the most important thing is to find mentors of either sex who are willing to look out for your best interest and who want to help you succeed. Most of my mentors are actually males, but that's mainly b/c our dept. doesn't have many female research profs. My experience has been that there are plenty of male mentors out there who do want to support women in the sciences, and they greatly outnumber the ones who don't, especially among the younger profs.

 

[nikibean]

Hi there,
The whole medical school admissions process is mind-bending and depressing ....What about next year?... If you want this, then go after it and do not be deterred by timing.
.... What you have now, is some time to take a jaundiced look at what you need and what you will change to make your application better for next year...Everytime you get asked about your dedication to medicine on a future interview, you can certainly point to how you immediately re-applied because you KNOW that medicine is what you want for your life. This is actually what you want to emphasize and re-emphasize in your re-application and this will work in your favor...Play this one to every advantage for next year when you feel like it....
njbmd 🙂

Well spoken.
Bubbleyum, I've been watching your progress and cheering for you like mad. Trust me, I know how much it sucks to watch your friends from a post-bac program who are like, "WTF? - you *didn't* get in???" while they all go tra-la-la off to somewhere to do a white coat ceremony. I gave up for a while, and started looking at FNP programs, RN programs, anything, but ultimately I didn't want to do anything but be a physician. And so, I sucked it up and went after it again.
Everything in life risks failure. I think more than anything it hits us really personally when something doesn't logically work out, whether it's a relationship, an application, a career- and certainly it seems applying to med school isn't an entirely logical process. There are a ton of variables which we don't have access to knowing about. We can only do our best. That being said, do your best, just do it again- you got interviews, which says something- many people don't even get that far. That means you've got a good shot especially with re-applying. I can't tell you what to do with your year, and certainly you shouldn't feel as though it's wasted- a lot can happen in a year, and use the time to see what your next step really is.
My advice is in line with everyone else's: DONT GIVE UP. Get mad, curl up and cry, and then pick up the phone in May and call every single Dean and ask exactly what you could do to make your application better for next year. Re-write your PS. Don't pound it into the ground that your re-applying, but mention it. With a 30 MCAT, I don't think you should re-take it unless something's really changed. A lot of schools look favorably on re-applicants because it does demonstrate determination. Above all, keep on keepin' on. And know that next year when you get your acceptance letter, you're getting your butt to the beach to celebrate. 👍

 

[cfdavid]

Sure, but what should it matter to an adcom how much you've got at stake? Perhaps risking a job, big house, etc. are indicators of just how much you want to be a doctor. But is there any way to prove that you want it more or less than an undergrad who busted his/her ass for four years, giving up Thursday night parties and crazy weekend trips to shady locations for a shot at an MD degree? 22-year-olds may lack life experience, but that doesn't mean they all lack desire. I did, and that's why I'm seven years late to the game. If a traditional applicant can put up strong numbers, chances are they're no worse or less positioned to become excellent physicians as we are.

Agreed on the last sentence. However, as a non-trad, we truly DO have more at stake in terms of a non-successful application cycle.

That being said, surely traditional applicants don't view an "extra" year of applying as being expendible. They have a different set of pressures. It's more the family and peer pressure of failing when many of their other pals from all those classes they shared in their major are getting in. I can understand how tough that would be.

In some ways we can use being non-trads as an excuse that somehow we've had to overcome many more hurdles/juggles (arguably, that is true for most). And we also have more at stake in terms of time and opportunity cost (of many forms).

 

[ambaduchi]

hey bubble, i'm a reapplicant this cycle, bout the same age as you. it sounds like you're being a trooper and i just wanted to give you a shout and props. this time last year was when i closed the book on my apps and realized i wasn't going to be getting in (i didn't even have an interview hanging out there like you do, though i think your situation is harder bc of it). that time was one of the saddest moments of my life...i felt like my heart broke in two. of course not getting in is hard for anyone but it is different at our age. we work so hard, exhaustingly hard...gosh reading your posts just took me back and i sooo feel for you. it's devastating. i kept thinking to myself..."this? this is how it ends!? this is not how this movie was supposed to END."
anyway. i cried, i raged, i got angry at the injustice of it all and i just let myself be for a little while.
and then a few weeks later...i was like...you. dirty. bastards. i am NOT going to let you hold me down. your system is screwed up and unfair and i am so so so tired and you want me to dance and b*llsh*t and so fine i'm gonna dance like never before bc this time i have nothing to lose but i'm gonna hate you for doing this to me. i knew i wouldn't apply a 3rd time, so i threw everything i had at it...i swear i had real venom in my heart at times.
ok i'm being a total drama queen...but it was deep...it changed my whole attitude to one of take-no-prisoners-this-is-f*ckin-war...i went into the process much more coldly and calculatingly. from banging on doors to get feedback on what went wrong (you have to be totally persistent in order to get answers out of some schools) to telling people NO for once in my life when i needed space to get essays and secondaries done to giving my letter writers hard deadlines and total guiltrips about why they couldn't be a minute late w turning them in. and singing my own praises left right and center in my app and essays. none of this came naturally.
it's a little scary to look back on how angry i was and how i channeled that into my application process. but thank goodness i did bc it got me through it. and fortunately it hasn't been a permanent change...i've never been any good at holding grudges 😉 and time and good news has brought me slowly back to my way-more-chill and happy self.
...how it was this time last year was not how the movie ended...it was just a dramatic plot twist during which our hero/heroine marshalls their strength during a period of mourning, then emerges -- hungrier and wilier than before. a lean mean app machine.
😉
the reapp movie is just a bit longer than originally expected...and it's a serious nail-biter...but it's a labor of love and passion for medicine and for our futures and that's worth something.
as for my big finale...still waiting for the final scene...but it's looking like a happy ride off into the med school sunset 🙂

keep the faith.

 

[Pretty POHA]

Hi Bubble!!
My words of encouragement to you:
You've done everything right so far-- keep on keeping on! You haven't sacrificed everything for nothing. You CAN Do IT!
And as for depression: neurons that fire together "wire" together... try to keep focusing on the positive and counter any of the negative with stronger positive thoughts. (Your brain literally changes with thought.) So if you can force yourself to stay motivated, cheerful, and driven, it won't be long before the sun is shining again down on you!