Failing out of Pharm School

[daytripper]

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[konkan]

I was just wondering what the policies were at each school for student's who fail a class or classes. Are these students automatically discharged from the program or are they given the opportunity to retake these classes and/or enroll in the next year's class. I ask because I have recently faced this situation myself and this particular school had no policies in place for retaking the class, a "remediation" test was offered for classes failed, but it was one test covering an entire class and there was no additional instruction offered. If the student didn't take the remediation, failed the remediation, or failed too many classes to be "eligible" for remediation then they were automatically discharged from the program, with no option of returning for the next year's class. The student's were told that they could re-apply not re-enroll but that the chances of being reaccepted were very slim. Is this the situation at most schools? Shouldn't students be provided with an adequate chance to retake the class or classes they struggled with, instead of taking one test to cover an entire class with no additional instruction, or at least be offered the chance to re-enroll in the next year's class. If this was a continuing problem or the student re-enrolled and still experienced difficulties I could understand dismissal but this particular program seems to allow the student no chance to redeem themselves.

At Wayne State 1 F - come back next year
2 or more F's - out of the school

 

[dgroulx]

At UF, one F or 4 D's will require you to petition to stay in school. If they grant your petition, you must retake all classes in which you received lower than a C. Any subsequent grade lower than a C and you are kicked out.

So, if you made one D in a first year class, then 2 D's in year two, then a D or F in any year 3 class you must repeat those classes from years one and two. They let you take them together, so you only lose one year instead of two.

The second scenario is if you don't keep a 2.0 GPA, you have to repeat a year.

 

[bananaface]

At my school (UW Seattle), you get 1 chance to retake each class you fail. we don't have a policy addressing what happens if you fail twice. A GPA or Cum GPA under 2.0 for 2 quarters in a row requires that you write a letter to the Dean explaining why you should stay in the program.

 

[ButlerPharm.D.]

At Butler students are allowed to accumulate up to 5 hours of D. If a student receives over 5 hours of D you are required to retake all classes in which you received a grade of D. Only your P1 classes can be remediate over the summer, all other classes require that the student return the following year (fall behind a year). A GPA of 2.0 automatically places the student on academic probation meaning that the student has one semester to show improvement in GPA. If the student fails to improve their GPA in one semester the student is expelled. During this period of academic probation the student can not receive a grade lower than C and can not withdrawal from any courses. One thing I would like to mention is that Butler is very supportive of their students and they don't find enjoyment in taking punitive action against their students. If you would have asked for advice before hand I would have recommended that you find some sort of review book that might have aided you in reviewing for your remediation exam. Furthermore since you are in pharmacy school you could have gone to Rho Chi study tables for some extra help. To the OP, do you attend a new COP?

 

[daytripper]

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[Requiem]

My school didn't really discuss this in depth as there's almost never been a problem, however this year I think we may have one who won't make it. (Our class is 40 students)

You have to maintain a 65% average in all pharmacy courses, and pass your electives. I think if you fail an individual course you make take a supplementary final, and if you fail that then you're required to withdraw from the program. Same goes if you fall below a 65 after a year's coursework.

 

[daytripper]

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[daytripper]

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[ButlerPharm.D.]

Since you've been dismissed from your course of study it may be quite difficult to be admitted into another program. In preparation for applying to another program I would recommend that you take a retrospective look at what types of behaviors caused you to be in this predicament. I know this maybe difficult but if you intend on moving forward you're going to need a plan. If I can help in an way feel free to contact me via e-mail at jegel at butler dot edu.

 

[UACP]

Daytripper, do I know you?

 

[daytripper]

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[UACP]

"Shouldn't students be provided with an adequate chance to retake the class or classes they struggled with, instead of taking one test to cover an entire class with no additional instruction, or at least be offered the chance to re-enroll in the next year's class. If this was a continuing problem or the student re-enrolled and still experienced difficulties I could understand dismissal but this particular program seems to allow the student no chance to redeem themselves."


There were MORE than adequate opportunities for any student to redeem themselves. All of our faculty is more than willing to help with anything you need. If you're talking about Block 1.2, which I believe was the most failed block, then you know as well as I do that they offered weekly sessions throughout the semester to help students prepare for remediation. They also offered freebie retakes on one test blocks, as well as additional instruction sessions so that students wouldn't be out $1500 for one test, which I think was very considerate on their part. In addition to that, we had the opportunity this semester to earn up to 10 Dean points to be added to any test. Thinking back on it ALL the students who failed out this semester failed at least two blocks. The reason they said you had a very slim chance of being re-accpted is because they want students who can make it through all three years of the program. The curriculum is very academically challenging, and some people just couldn't handle it.

 

[daytripper]

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[cooldreams]

wow you pharm ppl got it easy... you have D's!!!... in med sko, its a,b,c,F 😱

 

[UACP]

"UACP, I don't want to start a personal fight with anyone. But the remediation system is a joke. Asking a student to take one test that covers an entire block is completely ridiculous. And the "dean points" you referred were also a joke. That was a ludicrous system put in place by the first dean to be used in only one class. This system was later expanded to include all classes by the current dean, in order to allow some people to avoid remediation. The handbook clearly states that no extra credit points will be allowed on any assessment. This is just one more case of the school altering it's curriculum without any input from the student's and without regard to it's own policies. I have been a long standing member of this message board as jplaster and the reason I chose to use a different name was to keep from making this an attack on the school. I have more class than that. But obviously some people have no class and are afraid to even identify themselves."

Of course you want to start a personal fight...you always do. You're the one who signed that handbook. You knew from the beginning what you were getting in to. If you didn't like the remediation part you should have left then. Oh and speaking of reading the handbook, you apparently skipped the part about attendance. Possibly if you had ever come to class you wouldn't be in your current situation. I'm sorry you failed out, but it was your fault, not the school's.
P.S. The individual without class would be yourself. All I've ever done was state the truth, which apparently you can't handle.

 

[alwaystired]

wow you pharm ppl got it easy... you have D's!!!... in med sko, its a,b,c,F 😱

USN (my Pharm school) is 90% to pass.....you only need an 85% is your team gets 95% on the test......


Not so easy.

 

[jplaster]

UACP, I'm still not sure who you are, and honestly I don't know why this discussion even bothers you so much. I never stated the name of the school until you became involved and even changed my sign-in name to keep it from being recognized. I was merely trying to get an understanding of policies and procedures at otherschools of pharmacy. Yes I did read and sign the handbook and maybe my attendance wasn't the greatest. But the handbook also stated that materials for the blocks would be available 7 days in advance of classes, which we all know that they weren't and that extra credit points wouldn't be given on any assessment, which we all know they were with dean points. I don't know where you get the idea that I try to start a personal fight. In most situations I reserve my opinion, unless I feel strongly about that situation. As far as having class, once again I have tried to preserve the image of the school as much as possible and have accepted my own downfalls. I'm not sure how someone who hides behind a screen name can accuse me of not having class, but I guess that's your idea of fun. When I started this thread I wasn't interested in attacking the school or you, or anyone else involved with the school. I was merely asking how things were done at other schools of pharmacy. I apologize if me seeking this information has upset you, but that's not really my problem. I don't know what youre personal problem is with me, but this is not the place to settle it.

 

[UACP]

USN (my Pharm school) is 90% to pass.....you only need an 85% is your team gets 95% on the test......

Wow...that sounds even worse. We also do teams, and get an extra five points if we make above a 95%. You don't think about it, but those five points can REALLY help!

 

[bananaface]

Please stop the squabbling.

No one has any obligation to identify themselves on SDN. Taunting someone for remaining anonymous is not appropriate. Neither is facing off with other users or flaming. If you are unsure of the ground rules, please check over the TOS. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/faq.php?faq=about_sdn#faq_sdn_terms_of_service

Thank you!

- Anna 🙂

 

[pinkyrx]

USN (my Pharm school) is 90% to pass.....you only need an 85% is your team gets 95% on the test......

Wow...that sounds even worse. We also do teams, and get an extra five points if we make above a 95%. You don't think about it, but those five points can REALLY help!

Just curious.. how does this "team" thing work when it comes to grades? Do you get to pick who you are on a team with?

 

[UACP]

Just curious.. how does this "team" thing work when it comes to grades? Do you get to pick who you are on a team with?

At the beginning of the year they randomly assigned us into ten different teams and divided the ten teams into two groups (blue and green.) This semester we begin rotations, and each week we alternate one group going out and the other group having an EPPE forum and compouning lab at school.

The other nice part about it is that every day we do something called "active learning" where we go into our individual teams and work on problems, or talk about what we've been over that day. It's great because you get the opportunity to talk about any questions you have, and it really does help cut down on the amount of time you have to study outside of class!

 

[alwaystired]

Just curious.. how does this "team" thing work when it comes to grades? Do you get to pick who you are on a team with?

At USN, our teams are randomly assigned and consist of 7 people with a total of 20 something teams. We usually do mind-numbing (IMO) assignments. On test days, you take your test alone the first 2 hours and then immediately after you take the same test again with your team.....Battle out the answers together and then wait for the scores. Hardly any teams have ever not got their team points (5%) (I guess 7 future pharmacists BETTER get it right). Teams must get 95% for you to get the 5%.

Teams are great for test points since they allow you to get an 85% and pass, but overall, I am not that impressed with teams. Some teams decrease your at home study time, while other teams just "waste time." It's hard when it is random and you get very different people together.

 

[alwaystired]

At USN, our teams are randomly assigned and consist of 7 people with a total of 20 something teams. We usually do mind-numbing (IMO) assignments. On test days, you take your test alone the first 2 hours and then immediately after you take the same test again with your team.....Battle out the answers together and then wait for the scores. Hardly any teams have ever not got their team points (5%) (I guess 7 future pharmacists BETTER get it right). Teams must get 95% for you to get the 5%.

Teams are great for test points since they allow you to get an 85% and pass, but overall, I am not that impressed with teams. Some teams decrease your at home study time, while other teams just "waste time." It's hard when it is random and you get very different people together.

I forgot to mention that teams stay the same all year long....so if you get a lemon, you are SOL till next year, meanwhile all the superteams have decreased their study time and are kicking your butt on tests.

 

[UACP]

I forgot to mention that teams stay the same all year long....so if you get a lemon, you are SOL till next year, meanwhile all the superteams have decreased their study time and are kicking your butt on tests.

That sounds just like our school, except I think our teams stay the same throughout the three years...THANK GOD I got in one of the good teams that actually does stuff!!!

 

[Requiem]

That sounds just like our school, except I think our teams stay the same throughout the three years...THANK GOD I got in one of the good teams that actually does stuff!!!

I'm pretty sure it'd be absolutely demoralizing if you were in a crappy team that always lost, and you were stuck with them for 3 years.

I'm glad my school doesn't have "teams".

 

[imperial frog]

At UF, one F or 4 D's will require you to petition to stay in school. If they grant your petition, you must retake all classes in which you received lower than a C. Any subsequent grade lower than a C and you are kicked out.

So, if you made one D in a first year class, then 2 D's in year two, then a D or F in any year 3 class you must repeat those classes from years one and two. They let you take them together, so you only lose one year instead of two.

The second scenario is if you don't keep a 2.0 GPA, you have to repeat a year.

I believe we also have to maintain a 2.0 for each year as well in addition to the cumulative, so if one year you pull all Cs and 1 D you can't take the next year's classes.

 

[ilovepharmacy]

I'm glad my school doesn't have "teams".

Ditto - I like having control over how I spend my time studying and my grades. And I hate being forced to work in groups.