Fair pay?

[Aether2000]

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U would be surprise how little many anesthesiologists have in their bank accounts.

There are quite a few living paycheck to paycheck even at 500k or more.

They carry credit card debt etc. and these are the non divorce ones!

The divorce ones are in worst shape. It takes them another 5 years to recover.

We live in a consumption society. Spend spend spend.

Just like those that chose the most expensive undergraduate and medical universities, there are choices available. Living paycheck to paycheck on 500k income should be extremely rare, and due almost entirely to poor choices.

 

[kidthor]

Just like those that chose the most expensive undergraduate and medical universities, there are choices available. Living paycheck to paycheck on 500k income should be extremely rare, and due almost entirely to poor choices.

Totally. If someone makes 500K and lives paycheck to paycheck then that person and their poor judgment is the problem, not the pay.

 

[aneftp]

Just like those that chose the most expensive undergraduate and medical universities, there are choices available. Living paycheck to paycheck on 500k income should be extremely rare, and due almost entirely to poor choices.

well the mortgage at 7% in high cost living area at $8000/month (and that modest) living
$2000/mo student loans?
$1000/month car note
Kids schools ($2000-4000/month) excluding private schools

So $15000 right off the bat monthly expenses before basics electricity and insurance etc


So someone making 500k after paying 8-10% state income taxes and 32% federal taxes.

Doesn’t leave them with a lot of wiggle room. 20-22k after taxes a month on a 500k salary.

 

[UscGhost]

well the mortgage at 7% in high cost living area at $8000/month (and that modest) living
$2000/mo student loans?
$1000/month car note
Kids schools ($2000-4000/month) excluding private schools

So $15000 right off the bat monthly expenses before basics electricity and insurance etc


So someone making 500k after paying 8-10% state income taxes and 32% federal taxes.

Doesn’t leave them with a lot of wiggle room. 20-22k after taxes a month on a 500k salary.

Don't need a $1000 car payment or 2-4k in kids school (if live in a good school district)

Can live in a cheaper house as well

Lifestyle choices

 

[rowsdower88]

well the mortgage at 7% in high cost living area at $8000/month (and that modest) living
$2000/mo student loans?
$1000/month car note
Kids schools ($2000-4000/month) excluding private schools

So $15000 right off the bat monthly expenses before basics electricity and insurance etc


So someone making 500k after paying 8-10% state income taxes and 32% federal taxes.

Doesn’t leave them with a lot of wiggle room. 20-22k after taxes a month on a 500k salary.

Yeah man, basically indentured servitude

 

[aneftp]

Don't need a $1000 car payment or 2-4k in kids school (if live in a good school district)

Can live in a cheaper house as well

Lifestyle choices

These are not my payments. I have no debt besides my mortgage which’s is reasonable at $4500/month

Im just showing u a newer grad who has 2 kids. They have bills to pay. This is real life.

Their first home is 900k home with a 850k mortgage (physician loan, no pmi ). It’s a modest home. Nothing fancy in the Washington DC area.

 

[SRYSPAC]

These are not my payments. I have no debt besides my mortgage which’s is reasonable at $4500/month

Im just showing u a newer grad who has 2 kids. They have bills to pay. This is real life.

Their first home is 900k home with a 850k mortgage (physician loan, no pmi ). It’s a modest home. Nothing fancy in the Washington DC area.

I definitely see this a lot; the 0-5% down physician loan is really ; the amortization tables for loans like this are really painful to look at...

 

[AppTrail]

well the mortgage at 7% in high cost living area at $8000/month (and that modest) living
$2000/mo student loans?
$1000/month car note
Kids schools ($2000-4000/month) excluding private schools

So $15000 right off the bat monthly expenses before basics electricity and insurance etc


So someone making 500k after paying 8-10% state income taxes and 32% federal taxes.

Doesn’t leave them with a lot of wiggle room. 20-22k after taxes a month on a 500k salary.

Add in 10-15k vacation 4-5x a year, eating out frequently. Maybe an expensive hobby like golf?, skiing?, etc. Easy to burn through

 

[nimbus]

Add in 10-15k vacation 4-5x a year, eating out frequently. Maybe an expensive hobby like golf?, skiing?, etc. Easy to burn through

I’m 58yo and I think my lifetime vacation spend is under $50k.

 

[mdo1738]

And unlike us, many of them don't get much opportunity for sleep on their 24s -- I know this from intern year.

You must have had a chill program. We did 24s on trauma and OB. You were very lucky to get 3+ hours of total sleep on that. 1-2 hours split into 15-30 minute chunks was fairly common. But the most common outcome was zero sleep.

 

[gunnershow]

You must have had a chill program. We did 24s on trauma and OB. You were very lucky to get 3+ hours of total sleep on that. 1-2 hours split into 15-30 minute chunks was fairly common. But the most common outcome was zero sleep.

We had a big program and had more residents on call. CA3 as "junior attending", CA2, CA1, and OB senior/junior. I wouldn't call it "chill" because it was high acuity, but the number of people on call made it so I would find 2-3hours to sleep usually.

That was enough to keep chugging through a 24 and far better than surgery, where you're literally drowning as the consults pile up during urgent OR cases, pages interrupt you every few minutes, notes/orders/scut need to get done, etc. As an anesthesia resident, you only have one task at a time. There's really no comparison.

 

[UscGhost]

Add in 10-15k vacation 4-5x a year, eating out frequently. Maybe an expensive hobby like golf?, skiing?, etc. Easy to burn through

Easy to burn through yes. But that's lifestyle creep.

All generally unnecessary things that most people can do without if it means living paycheck to paycheck.

If you have excess funds and doing well, by all means do so. But many who complain that they can barely make ends meet on 200k plus is a spending problem..not an earnings problem

 

[<(^_^)>]

US Anesthesiologists make a median of $472k, placing us in the top 1 percentile of US income. As a profession, we are fortunate to be the wealthy in society based on income standards, although the wealthy usually only perceive those making far more than themselves as wealthy. According to the Medscape compensation report, anesthesiologists rank 8th in compensation among all physician specialties yet 46% believe they are not being paid fairly. Perhaps this is due to work hour demands or a large standard deviation in anesthesiologist pay, but it is curious nearly half of anesthesiologists, among the highest income earners in America, believe themselves to be unfairly paid.

The question is “do you feel you are paid fairly.” If you’re an academic anesthesiologist making 170 an hour, you may feel you aren’t paid fairly because you make a lot less than other anesthesiologists despite dealing with pretty sick patients.

The question isn’t “do you feel anesthesiologists are paid fairly”.

People will always compare themselves to outliers that make top 10%. No one is saying “did you hear about the job in New York paying 350k with 6 weeks PTO??”

As a side note 470k doesn’t put you in the top 1% these days: Mapped: The Income Needed to Join the Top 1% in Every U.S. State

 

[Aether2000]

The question is “do you feel you are paid fairly.” If you’re an academic anesthesiologist making 170 an hour, you may feel you aren’t paid fairly because you make a lot less than other anesthesiologists despite dealing with pretty sick patients.

The question isn’t “do you feel anesthesiologists are paid fairly”.

People will always compare themselves to outliers that make top 10%. No one is saying “did you hear about the job in New York paying 350k with 6 weeks PTO??”

As a side note 470k doesn’t put you in the top 1% these days: Mapped: The Income Needed to Join the Top 1% in Every U.S. State

There is a range of pay for anesthesiologists, but even that is a choice. It is ludicrous to complain about making half as much as the guy down the street when you can simply become the guy down the street. As for the top 1%, I suppose it depends on your calculation- Income Percentile Calculator for the United States

 

[aneftp]

I’m 58yo and I think my lifetime vacation spend is under $50k.

Man…to each their own what you want to do

But live a little. Doesn’t mean blowing your money like some of us (including me). But live a little.

Age eventually catches up to you. And you wish you could do it earlier when you were active.

Are you sure you haven’t spent 50k? A flight and 1-2 weeks stay Asia or Australia or even Hawaii is easily 15k even for the most frugal person with a family of 4.

 

[<(^_^)>]

There is a range of pay for anesthesiologists, but even that is a choice. It is ludicrous to complain about making half as much as the guy down the street when you can simply become the guy down the street. As for the top 1%, I suppose it depends on your calculation- Income Percentile Calculator for the United States

I agree, and yet you’ll see tons of doctors whining that their field doesn’t pay as well as others despite knowing since medical school. Humans whine about other humans having some aspect of their life that’s better than theirs even when their life is pretty good, and anesthesiologists are no different.

Anyone in the US whining about their life would be seen as tone deaf from the perspective of average person in Sudan after all. And perhaps the biggest example of this privilege is the healthy whining about life experiences the terminally ill would kill to have. “Oh you had to stay late? I’ll be dead in 3 months!”

 

[sevo00]

US Anesthesiologists make a median of $472k, placing us in the top 1 percentile of US income. As a profession, we are fortunate to be the wealthy in society based on income standards, although the wealthy usually only perceive those making far more than themselves as wealthy. According to the Medscape compensation report, anesthesiologists rank 8th in compensation among all physician specialties yet 46% believe they are not being paid fairly. Perhaps this is due to work hour demands or a large standard deviation in anesthesiologist pay, but it is curious nearly half of anesthesiologists, among the highest income earners in America, believe themselves to be unfairly paid.

472k is no longer the 1% in many states.

 

[NightyNight]

Please read basis 101 small business deductions. Lots of people think I’m crazy with my deductions. My effective tax rate some years are around 15-18% if I’m pure 1099. (No w2 income).

My effective tax rate was a lot higher last year at around 27% since I made too much plus I had a ton of w2 income as well.

there are docs and crna pure 1099 effective tax rates as low as 10%. Many do not even pay themselves a salary or a very low salary (which I know is legal)

They put their college kids on the payroll to lower their taxes as well. There are so many ways to play the tax system. Google is your friend. And if you are asking these questions. You may need to consult a tax professional to guide you. You are way behind the 8 ball if you need to ask this.

Do you have a LLC and filing as a S Corp? What do you consider to be a “reasonable” wage so you don’t get flagged?

 

[Volatile]

The question is “do you feel you are paid fairly.” If you’re an academic anesthesiologist making 170 an hour, you may feel you aren’t paid fairly because you make a lot less than other anesthesiologists despite dealing with pretty sick patients.

The question isn’t “do you feel anesthesiologists are paid fairly”.

People will always compare themselves to outliers that make top 10%. No one is saying “did you hear about the job in New York paying 350k with 6 weeks PTO??”

As a side note 470k doesn’t put you in the top 1% these days: Mapped: The Income Needed to Join the Top 1% in Every U.S. State

Exactly this! When I was doing locums my favorite place to work wasn’t even close to the highest paying. Most on here would say it was low paying. But it was such a laid back place that I would take whatever shifts they wanted to give. It’s not always about the hourly rate, I didn’t want to dread going into work.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Exactly this! When I was doing locums my favorite place to work wasn’t even close to the highest paying. Most on here would say it was low paying. But it was such a laid back place that I would take whatever shifts they wanted to give. It’s not always about the hourly rate, I didn’t want to dread going into work.

Yup, sustainable is better than lucrative if you had to choose one. Rack up hours over the course of 6 years, not 6 months.

 

[aneftp]

Do you have a LLC and filing as a S Corp? What do you consider to be a “reasonable” wage so you don’t get flagged?

It’s really depends on the how much 1099 income you are generating. Vs how much regular w2 wages you get (if you are employed by say an amc, state university or hospitals)


If you are pure 1099. (No hospital /state/amc w2 wages). You need to be an s corp for most people

If you have say 450-500k w2 wages for envision team health or hospitals and make say 150k 1099

You really don’t even need an s corp because you max out on payroll taxes.

The math gets hazy once u start generating say 200k or more 1099 incorm

The big savings are payroll taxes including Medicare taxes paying urself a low w2 salary (as s corp)

But if u have regular w2 wages as real employee elsewhere. U don’t get a big savings.

Taxes are complex but simple at the same time

 

[pgg]

I’m 58yo and I think my lifetime vacation spend is under $50k.

I'm younger, but figure I'll be under $50K by then as well.

1st class international flights and $1000/night hotels

vs

some backpacking gear and visiting a national park or BLM land


I think the most expensive vacation I've ever taken was to do the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu.

If I never eat simmered eel in a 7-star restaurant in Paris that'll be OK.

 

[pgg]

i do not think athletes should be paid 30m to throw a ball.

I do

They are the centerpiece of multi-billion dollar industries. An industry that would not and could not exist without their rare and exceptional talent. They provide entertainment and diversion and joy to 100s of millions of people. Pro athletes, more than anyone else in that industry, deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And there's a lot of fruit. Why shouldn't the athletes get big bites of it?

 

[aneftp]

I do

They are the centerpiece of multi-billion dollar industries. An industry that would not and could not exist without their rare and exceptional talent. They provide entertainment and diversion and joy to 100s of millions of people. Pro athletes, more than anyone else in that industry, deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And there's a lot of fruit. Why shouldn't the athletes get big bites of it?

Correct.

As evident by the ncaa Supreme Court rulings giving even college athletes a piece of the multi billion dollar piece of the college sports pie

Professional sports is even bigger.

Who know how much LeBron James generated in revenue for the Cleveland cavaliers/miami heat/lakers franchise

In terms of tv revenue /merch, ticket sales etc. it’s a lot more than 40-50 million lebron is getting paid even at the end of his career

On a smaller scale us docs generate millions for the hospital systems as well.

 

[AKMD_1984]

I do

They are the centerpiece of multi-billion dollar industries. An industry that would not and could not exist without their rare and exceptional talent. They provide entertainment and diversion and joy to 100s of millions of people. Pro athletes, more than anyone else in that industry, deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor. And there's a lot of fruit. Why shouldn't the athletes get big bites of it?

throwing a ball may excite a million people and they may be willing to pay for it, but that talent is completely useless compared to a physicians talent and ability to perform under pressure which often results in changing a patients condition.

 

[nimbus]

Better to the athletes than to billionaire team owners.

 

[nimbus]

throwing a ball may excite a million people and they may be willing to pay for it, but that talent is completely useless compared to a physicians talent and ability to perform under pressure which often results in changing a patients condition.

It’s about scalability. We can only help one patient at a time. Athletes, entertainers, and tech entrepreneurs can sell their product to millions. Write a book like Casey Means and you too could have an audience of millions.

 

[AKMD_1984]

athletes do not have a direct impact on anyone.
certainly not 30m worth of impact

why is a pediatrician paid less than an athlete? somehow children are less important huh? or pediatricians are weaker, meeker, dumber i guess compared to aaron rodger or kobe bryant’s of the world…

 

[AKMD_1984]

the difference in income is obscene

makes no sense

i still remember hakeem olajuwon was paid 17 million for three years back in the day for a handful of games when he was traded to toronto

how is this ok?

 

[pgg]

throwing a ball may excite a million people and they may be willing to pay for it, but that talent is completely useless compared to a physicians talent and ability to perform under pressure which often results in changing a patients condition.

You're missing the point.

There is a flood of money going into professional sports, willingly paid by fans who have decided that the entertainment value they get is worth the money they pay.

Where should that money go?

FOX Sports network executives?
Team owners who can't even throw that ball?
Why shouldn't the players get a big piece of that pie?

What you're actually asking here is for pediatricians or more "deserving" people to get a cut of the New York Yankees' ticket sales, player jersey sales, beer ad dollars ... that's a ridiculous take.

The money paid into sports goes somewhere. To whom do you think it should go, and how should it get there?

 

[AKMD_1984]

no.
i’m saying is that it’s ridiculous that society values a pediatricians talent lesser than an athlete.

i don’t care how they’re paid - yes i understand how they’re paid. it’s a consumer economy so naturally they will get a % of revenue generated?

but is revenue generated after thrm
throwing a ball more important than being a pediatrician?

i don’t think so.

 

[aneftp]

Speaking of pain docs trying to do general anesthesia.

Don’t over extend yourself. One of the young pain docs from out of state just got fired 1099 locums at trauma one center I go to once in a while after 4 shifts.

1. Inexperienced
2. Not good (that was confirmed after I fished around at his residency program up north)
3. Rusty?
4. Attitude?

You can get exposed very quickly if you don’t perform as locums. Or ur attitude with get you fired. Or a combination.

People need experience and know how to work the system. This comes with experience.

Just more locums works for me. Lol. But I got so much work on the table. I’m trying to cut back.

But there are plenty of pain docs successfully doing 1099 general locums as well.

Don’t get rusty.

 

[anonperson]

no.
i’m saying is that it’s ridiculous that society values a pediatricians talent lesser than an athlete.

i don’t care how they’re paid - yes i understand how they’re paid. it’s a consumer economy so naturally they will get a % of revenue generated?

but is revenue generated after thrm
throwing a ball more important than being a pediatrician?

i don’t think so.

A lot of people spend a ton of cash to watch certain pro sports.

Meanwhile, people complain about a $30 co pay or do their best to avoid paying their medical debts.

 

[aneftp]

A lot of people spend a ton of cash to watch certain pro sports.

Meanwhile, people complain about a $30 co pay or do their best to avoid paying their medical debts.

People do not value (as in paying for it) in the USA

1. Education
2. Medical care

That’s the honest truth

In other countries. Both are essentially “free” as in it’s built into those civilized counties 50% tax rates to avoid free education and health care

 

[Splenda88]

Wealth is different than income.

Remember that. If you are getting out of bed more than 1 time a month to have to work. You are not wealthy.

Most docs won’t make real money till age 30-33 these days. Add student debt. Likely around age 40 before they get out of debt. That’s assuming they don’t have a family to raise.

Yes. It’s sounds like we are spoiled. You are wasting (consuming) 8 plus years of your life to pursue
medicine.

At least be thankful the residency years are easier on those who finished in the last 18 years since the 80 hr work week rules took place in 2004. I can’t imagine the kids these days surviving on an average 110-120 hr work week like us old timers. And I’m not old old.

I never like that argument about "wasting 8 yrs of your life" thing. Most 23-28 yrs old are working 45-55 hrs/wk making 45-75k/yr. They are not in Ibiza every month partying. These people are working hard to make a living. Some of them (probably a lot of them) are struggling to pay their bills if they are not staying with mommy/daddy.

There are some who also go to school for 8+ yrs but do not enjoy the kind of financial success that physicians do.

Maybe because I had the benefit of working as a RN for ~8 years makes me understand things are not easy for most 23-30 yrs old like you guys think.

I am quoting you here: Can you imaging you say to someone "I take 500k/20 weeks off/40 hrs a week give or take" but I sacrificed my 20s by going to medical school. Seriously!

 

[nimbus]

but is revenue generated after thrm
throwing a ball more important than being a pediatrician?

Importance=/=revenue.

What does a well visit pay? What does a stadium full of fans and broadcast rights pay?

Money comes from revenue.


We (the government) could assign different values to these things but that would not be a market economy.

 

[nimbus]

Wealth is different than income.

Remember that. If you are getting out of bed more than 1 time a month to have to work. You are not wealthy.

Most docs won’t make real money till age 30-33 these days. Add student debt. Likely around age 40 before they get out of debt. That’s assuming they don’t have a family to raise.

Yes. It’s sounds like we are spoiled. You are wasting (consuming) 8 plus years of your life to pursue
medicine.

At least be thankful the residency years are easier on those who finished in the last 18 years since the 80 hr work week rules took place in 2004. I can’t imagine the kids these days surviving on an average 110-120 hr work week like us old timers. And I’m not old old.

I loved my med school and training years. Being young, poor, and single in NYC and San Diego with no other responsibilities besides school and learning my craft was awesome. Friendships were casual and no drama. I actually enjoyed living in 300 SF dorms and 600SF studio apartments, not owning much stuff. My most prized possession was a steel Eddy Merkx road bike which I regrettably sold when I moved from east coast to west coast because it wouldn’t fit in my Honda civic with my other stuff. Maybe I just like asceticism. I was where I wanted to be doing what I wanted to do. My life has never been so carefree since those days. I have more of everything now. Life is a lot more complicated.

 

[NicholasPavona]

Can you imaging you say to someone "I take 500k/20 weeks off/40 hrs a week give or take" but I sacrificed my 20s by going to medical school. Seriously!

Yes. I can imagine it and I would say it with a straight face. The amount of stress and unnecessary drama that occurs during that decade of your 20's more then justifies the example you provided.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

I loved my med school and training years. Being young, poor, and single in NYC and San Diego with no other responsibilities besides school and learning my craft was awesome. Friendships were casual and no drama. I actually enjoyed living in 300 SF dorms and 600SF studio apartments, not owning much stuff. My most prized possession was a steel Eddy Merkx road bike which I regrettably sold when I moved from east coast to west coast because it wouldn’t fit in my Honda civic with my other stuff. Maybe I just like asceticism. I was where I wanted to be doing what I wanted to do. My life has never been so carefree since those days. I have more of everything now. Life is a lot more complicated.

Idk man, living on a budget of 15-20k per year that would be paid back with interest, while also getting an education that could've clearly been half the cost...

My life is far more carefree and less stressful now that I have a house without vermin, my own furniture, and with a working stove, clothes to wear without holes in them, and the ability to visit my family and friends any time rather than worrying whether my car will start smoking on the way home for Thanksgiving (true story).

Knowing I could've been killing it in tech, finance, engineering, or other fields where my friends in my major had jobs was pretty soul-crushing when looking at the alternative I chose. All's well that ends well, but man it was a wild ride.

 

[aneftp]

I never like that argument about "wasting 8 yrs of your life" thing. Most 23-28 yrs old are working 45-55 hrs/wk making 45-75k/yr. They are not in Ibiza every month partying. These people are working hard to make a living. Some of them (probably a lot of them) are struggling to pay their bills if they are not staying with mommy/daddy.

There are some who also go to school for 8+ yrs but do not enjoy the kind of financial success that physicians do.

Maybe because I had the benefit of working as a RN for ~8 years makes me understand things are not easy for most 23-30 yrs old like you guys think.

I am quoting you here: Can you imaging you say to someone "I take 500k/20 weeks off/40 hrs a week give or take" but I sacrificed my 20s by going to medical school. Seriously!

Times have changed. Most anesthesia partners docs made 500-700k with 6 weeks off 20 plus years ago plus 60-65 hrs a week

Most new bsn made 40k as 22 year old new grads 20 years ago

These days the starting salary of a 22 year bsn is 70-80k a year, some states higher than others especially California.

120k is pretty easy to make as a new bsn with some overtime

So percentage wise nursing salaries have gone up more than some doc salaries

I was sort of joking about wasting ur 20s away. Most of us went to Ibiza , rio de Janeiro, Switzerland, Africa , Asia during our 20s (usually subsidized) with parents money since we didn’t make any money as college or medical students. 20s was a good time even in school.

 

[abolt18]

I was sort of joking about wasting ur 20s away. Most of us went to Ibiza , rio de Janeiro, Switzerland, Africa , Asia during our 20s (usually subsidized) with parents money since we didn’t make any money as college or medical students.

We did? I don't know what "most of us" you're talking about. No such trips here.

 

[AKMD_1984]

A lot of people spend a ton of cash to watch certain pro sports.

Meanwhile, people complain about a $30 co pay or do their best to avoid paying their medical debts.

and you think that’s right?

i do not.

and the fact it happens is a reflection of our society at large. our priorities.

 

[AKMD_1984]

Importance=/=revenue.

What does a well visit pay? What does a stadium full of fans and broadcast rights pay?

Money comes from revenue.


We (the government) could assign different values to these things but that would not be a market economy.

yeah well in that case we should have zero pediatricians and all parents should push their kids into professional
sports track

since money is everything and market is everytying

until their child needs inhalers for their asthma etc

my point is i do not think athletes should be prevented from making certain income as they provide pleasure to their fans but their occupation isn’t that important for society

add on their tantrums and overall i find american sports quite nauseating. it’s less sport and more commmercial entertainment imo

 

[aneftp]

and you think that’s right?

i do not.

and the fact it happens is a reflection of our society at large. our priorities.

Again it depends how you value things.

I personally think spending $200 for theatre tickets is a waste but I still spend it because my daughter likes to go to see shows in new York and London (London tickets are cheaper) because wages are lower for actors in london.

Maybe we need to decrease the cost of our salaries with lower wages for doctors ? Right?

 

[AKMD_1984]

put a cap on athlete income at 2 mil

reduce gate prices

 

[AKMD_1984]

Again it depends how you value things.

I personally think spending $200 for theatre tickets is a waste but I still spend it because my daughter likes to go to see shows in new York and London (London tickets are cheaper) because wages are lower for actors in london.

Maybe we need to decrease the cost of our salaries with lower wages for doctors ? Right?

im
ok
with a reduction in my income if it comes with cheaper education
less regulation and red tape to be a doctor

 

[sloh]

We did? I don't know what "most of us" you're talking about. No such trips here.

Yeah the physicians I know who went on those trips as medical students and residents are generally behind in investing for retirement, much less financjal independence.

 

[sloh]

I loved my med school and training years. Being young, poor, and single in NYC and San Diego with no other responsibilities besides school and learning my craft was awesome. Friendships were casual and no drama. I actually enjoyed living in 300 SF dorms and 600SF studio apartments, not owning much stuff. My most prized possession was a steel Eddy Merkx road bike which I regrettably sold when I moved from east coast to west coast because it wouldn’t fit in my Honda civic with my other stuff. Maybe I just like asceticism. I was where I wanted to be doing what I wanted to do. My life has never been so carefree since those days. I have more of everything now. Life is a lot more complicated.

You’re also at a different stage in life today that I’d argue brings more meaning to you—raising a family, home ownership, contributing to society with your career and feeling like an actual expert. Today, if you were still living the way you did during medical school and training, it’d be way less of a positive experience.

 

[aneftp]

Yeah the physicians I know who went on those trips as medical students and residents are generally behind in investing for retirement, much less financjal independence.

If you are single. You have a lot of free time and more financial independence than those who started families younger.

Does help that mom and dad essentially paid all the bills to almost age 28. Even when making a measly 35-39k in Residency in high cost of Living area.

But I lived super cheap. $500/month rent roommate while the female got luxury 2 bedroom apartment for 3x as much since they felt like they needed more security with the bellman’s etc. $1500/month rents 25 years ago is like $3500/month rent in the city now

Residents are making twice as much as I was making at 70-80k a year. Compared to my 34-40k salary.

Everything is relative.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Times have changed. Most anesthesia partners docs made 500-700k with 6 weeks off 20 plus years ago plus 60-65 hrs a week

Most new bsn made 40k as 22 year old new grads 20 years ago

These days the starting salary of a 22 year bsn is 70-80k a year, some states higher than others especially California.

120k is pretty easy to make as a new bsn with some overtime

So percentage wise nursing salaries have gone up more than some doc salaries

I was sort of joking about wasting ur 20s away. Most of us went to Ibiza , rio de Janeiro, Switzerland, Africa , Asia during our 20s (usually subsidized) with parents money since we didn’t make any money as college or medical students. 20s was a good time even in school.

I think whats different in those tech careers is pepole are single in 20s and no kids while making a good income for several years then grow into a high base as they get into the 30s while their 401k have grown with matches and market gains for a decade.

For a doc they would need to start making attending money at early 30s and stay single and have kids later maybe mid 30s. 5 years is a big big catch up time for a doc that is working hard and trying to catch up with a lost decade and it requires some gameplan and investing till it hurts to some degree.

Had a blast in residency but my field that is common. I still think there is an angle to be mid 40s and going part time to finally have that balance between real money and a body that is capable to do almost anything you would do in your 20s. I am not interested in seeing what the body is like even early 50s that i would delay amazing experiences.