FAQ: What are my chances?

[MossPoh]

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The major impediment appears to be a lot of programs seem to set a cutoff at 240 if in desirable areas or well respected. Not all, but I was surprised to hear that the community program I'm rotating at now set a 240 cutoff for step 1.

Not much else you can do except apply and try.

 

[drizzt3117]

Little chance, but you'll never know if you don't apply. I would apply to 80 programs with those stats.

Probably more if you're applying to top programs. I wouldn't count places like ucsf, mgh, etc when you use the rule of 1/3rds. Personally I'd apply to 60 programs with places in the 25-50 range as your reaches and use that extra $500 to buy something nice.

 

[dude1344]

So I know the "rule of 1/3s."

My question is how do we know which programs fall into what category for our application purposes?

 

[drizzt3117]

You could ask here or AM. The rule of 1/3s doesn't work for people who are competitive everywhere though, for them, you just need to pick places you want to go and apply.

So I know the "rule of 1/3s."

My question is how do we know which programs fall into what category for our application purposes?

 

[ishr]

So I know the "rule of 1/3s."

My question is how do we know which programs fall into what category for our application purposes?

what is the rule of 1/3s

 

[dude1344]

what is the rule of 1/3s

Apply to 1/3 of your programs at "reaches", 1/3 at "good fits", 1/3 at "safeties"

 

[ishr]

Middle tier American MD program.
Step 1: 235
Step 2: 256
No pre-clinical honors
Only honored family medicine and a sub-i 4th year
I'm submitting a poster but no meaningful research
I have a lot of extra-curriculars and strong LOR for what its worth.

I would be happy anywhere but my goal is a local, strong, community program because of location. Otherwise, any hope for a west coast academic?

to reiterate, i have similar stats as this person but now a different question, what are my chances of matching to a tier 3 program if i apply to 80 of them? (so 80 does not include tier 1 or tier 2)

 

[drizzt3117]

to reiterate, i have similar stats as this person but now a different question, what are my chances of matching to a tier 3 program if i apply to 80 of them? (so 80 does not include tier 1 or tier 2)

I think you have a pretty good chance of that given broad app.

 

[viper930]

.

 

[drizzt3117]

You will have a good chance at a top program. I would use two med/surg letters and two rads.

I go to a new US MD school in Florida at which I am part of the first graduating class. We will be fully LCME accredited by graduation.

Pre-clinical: Top Quartile
Clinical: Honors in Medicine, Surgery, OB, Psych, Neuro. Near Honors in Family Medicine and Peds.
Overall Rank: #3/43. We will be getting an AOA chapter as soon as full LCME accreditation is obtained in the coming months and I have been told that I will be inducted at that time. This will also be reflected on my MSPE. However, my ERAS app will have to say "My school does not have an AOA chapter" at this time.

Step 1: 266
Step 2: Plan to take it in December

Research: 2 bench science pubs (2nd author), 1 short chapter in a clinical reference text (1st author), 1 radiology pub accepted (1st author), 2 other rads pubs submitted (1st author), 2 poster presentations (1st author)

LORs: 2 from diagnostic rads (one longitudinal from Rads Chair that has known me all 4 years), 2 from very clinically oriented IR group (one from VERY well known IR physician).

Good deal of leadership including student govt and interest groups. Extracurriculars with good number of volunteer activities.

My Questions/Concerns:

1. I know I have pretty strong numbers, but how do you guys think coming from a brand new school will affect my application?

2. How many programs should I apply to based on the above assumptions and how much of a chance do I have at the elite academics (top 10)?

3. Is it a problem to have all 4 letters coming from radiologists? 2 of them are from a very clinically oriented IR group so I figured these could possibly replace med/surg letters? The issue is that I know that all of these letters are very strong and I'd hate to waste one of them in order to get a med/surg letter from third year cores that may or may not be as strong.

Thanks for your help!

 

[viper930]

.

 

[drizzt3117]

Thanks. Just to be sure, you'd suggest going in and asking last year's med and surg attendings for 2 letters and replacing 2 of the rads letters I already have?

Hypothetically, if all 4 of my rads letters are 9/10 or better and the med/surg letters end up being more like 8/10, would you still opt to use that distribution or just go back to using the best ones?

Yes. A lot of programs will straight up say, no more than one letter from a radiologist.

 

[dude1344]

Do people send a rads letter when applying to TYs? If I have another clinical letter is it better to use that one in place of the rads one?

 

[deleted103644]

Do people send a rads letter when applying to TYs? If I have another clinical letter is it better to use that one in place of the rads one?

Use your judgment. I didn't bother and was fine, but a clinical letter is probably better

 

[drizzt3117]

Do people send a rads letter when applying to TYs? If I have another clinical letter is it better to use that one in place of the rads one?

I used the same letters for all programs.

 

[eccool]

I 'm just a third year doing my second rotation...i know it is kinda early to ask but I'd like to know what my chances are and what should I do to make myself to be more compeititve:

School: DO school
Pre-clinical: most A and Bs if matters, top 25%
clinical: 1 pass so far ( H-P-F system)
Took both USMLE and COMLEX: Step 1: 229, Level 1: 503
Research: No pub, did rad research during 1st year summer ( did undergrad research matter??)
ECA: multiple club officers, usual volunteering stuff,

I'll be happy to be in either MD or DO rad programs. What are my chances and what should I do/ not do??Or should i give up my dream... thanks!

 

[deleted103644]

I 'm just a poor boy nobody loves me. He's just a poor boy from a poor family, spare him his life from this radiology residency

No shot at MD. Go DO, but better to consider another specialty.

 

[Doctor D]

Consider taking step 2 early to boost your app. Also an away can help although some people warn against doing them in radiology.

 

[RUcereus]

DO applicant
top quartile in class
Honored all but 1 clinical rotation
Step 1 251
Step 2 261
2 Research projects, 1 being rads related
Plenty of EC's

What are my chances at a 2nd/3rd tier program.

Thanks

 

[DrAwsome]

DO applicant
top quartile in class
Honored all but 1 clinical rotation
Step 1 251
Step 2 261
2 Research projects, 1 being rads related
Plenty of EC's

What are my chances at a 2nd/3rd tier program.

Thanks

Given that I'm not in rads but I frequently look at these posts and wonder-are they serious? Rads is going through a rough transition, with 86 unfilled spots last year. Have you looked at the avg USMLE step scores for rads and what people match with? Do you really have to ask whether you'll match with your scores? I realize that med students are a nervous bunch but still.

 

[deleted103644]

Given that I'm not in rads but I frequently look at these posts and wonder-are they serious? Rads is going through a rough transition, with 86 unfilled spots last year. Have you looked at the avg USMLE step scores for rads and what people match with? Do you really have to ask whether you'll match with your scores? I realize that med students are a nervous bunch but still.

Radiology is pretty DO unfriendly, so he's right to ask.

The second tier academic places in the Midwest would be good targets for the previous poster.

Eg not Mayo, but UMinn. Not Cleveland Clinic but Case Western. Etc.

 

[RUcereus]

Radiology is pretty DO unfriendly, so he's right to ask.

The second tier academic places in the Midwest would be good targets for the previous poster.

Eg not Mayo, but UMinn. Not Cleveland Clinic but Case Western. Etc.

Interesting, these are some of my top places. Kind of disappointed with CCF though. I will be doing an away there as it is my numero uno, did I just waste an away?


Thanks

 

[deleted103644]

Interesting, these are some of my top places. Kind of disappointed with CCF though. I will be doing an away there as it is my numero uno, did I just waste an away?


Thanks

Best person to ask is Dr. TLM, he's usually on Aunt Minnie. Don't think he's the PD anymore, but he still would give you the best insight.

 

[Psychotropic]

Interesting, these are some of my top places. Kind of disappointed with CCF though. I will be doing an away there as it is my numero uno, did I just waste an away?


Thanks

Nah, you didn't waste an away. It's a good rotation. Enjoy. PM with any questions.

 

[ishr]

Top 20 by NIH funding med school
Step 1: 237
Step 2: 255
Pre-clinical: H/P/F system, H here and there
Clinical: H/HP/P/LP/F system, HP'd all core except medicine and surgery (P's) 🙁, and H'd some electives (including radiology, FWIW)
Two strong LORs from PDs of medicine and rads of my home institution... again FWIW

i plan to apply to 80 tier 3 programs, 15 tier 2, and 1-3 top programs

can anyone give me a ballpark estimate of % chance of matching in the first place? am i in deep trouble or will i be okay? FWIW im not tied down willing to apply broadly both in terms of program prestige and location...

 

[drizzt3117]

chances of matching are near 100%.

Top 20 by NIH funding med school
Step 1: 237
Step 2: 255
Pre-clinical: H/P/F system, H here and there
Clinical: H/HP/P/LP/F system, HP'd all core except medicine and surgery (P's) 🙁, and H'd some electives (including radiology, FWIW)
Two strong LORs from PDs of medicine and rads of my home institution... again FWIW

i plan to apply to 80 tier 3 programs, 15 tier 2, and 1-3 top programs

can anyone give me a ballpark estimate of % chance of matching in the first place? am i in deep trouble or will i be okay? FWIW im not tied down willing to apply broadly both in terms of program prestige and location...

 

[Rad2013]

Top 20 by NIH funding med school
Step 1: 237
Step 2: 255
Pre-clinical: H/P/F system, H here and there
Clinical: H/HP/P/LP/F system, HP'd all core except medicine and surgery (P's) 🙁, and H'd some electives (including radiology, FWIW)
Two strong LORs from PDs of medicine and rads of my home institution... again FWIW

i plan to apply to 80 tier 3 programs, 15 tier 2, and 1-3 top programs

can anyone give me a ballpark estimate of % chance of matching in the first place? am i in deep trouble or will i be okay? FWIW im not tied down willing to apply broadly both in terms of program prestige and location...

80 is probably serious overkill... but hey, its only money (I mean that seriously) and if you don't apply somewhere... you won't get an interview. I say, apply to as many as you want and wherever you want. Just know you may be canceling interviews midway through the season due to fatigue or inability to even coordinate them all. You will match. Don't forget.... radiology had 80+ vacant spots before the SOAP last cycle. A person from my school (not a top 20 NIH school) a few years ago (when rads was more competitive) matched with a step 1 of 205. Granted.. the program was in the middle of the boonies... but matched is matched.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[IJL]

Is there a clerkship in particular that it is important to try to Honor in for radiology?

 

[Doctor D]

I have heard as a general rule that surgery and IM are looked at more closely. Not sure how true this is.

 

[deleted103644]

I have heard as a general rule that surgery and IM are looked at more closely. Not sure how true this is.

Very true.

 

[drellis8]

anyone have any insight into Loma Linda? Thinking about applying there now that I have ties to the area. I'm from the southeast FWIW

231 step 1, 233 step 2, 2 publications, avg to above avg grades. banking on strong LORs from rads PD and surgery

 

[deleted103644]

anyone have any insight into Loma Linda? Thinking about applying there now that I have ties to the area. I'm from the southeast FWIW

231 step 1, 233 step 2, 2 publications, avg to above avg grades. banking on strong LORs from rads PD and surgery

Didn't apply to CA personally, but from what I've heard it would be very difficult with your stats.

Almost everyone applying to CA schools has ties since there's such a diaspora of CA residents in out of state medical schools who want to go back, so don't expect much of a bump from that if you aren't currently in state.

Your stats are more in line for community CA programs, and that would still be a crap shoot.

 

[wapwap]

.

 

[killinsound]

What region do you want to go to?

 

[wapwap]

^ cali, midwest (stl, chicago, texas), and a few east coast schools

 

[Melkor]

Hey all-I know this is somewhat unorthodox but I am just trying to get a better feel for where I need to be in the next few months to have a solid chance of getting into a rads.

Background:
DO school in southwest
Currently 2nd year
1st year top 10% in class
No publications as of yet...

Honestly, the most important thing to me is simply getting into a program. I have followed this thread through all of 1st year and I am definitely worried by a lot of DO's getting mid 230's/240's on step I who might not get into a program. So, with that in mind, should I really be aiming for a 250/625+ to "guarantee" (given that I do not have any red flags in my app and I am a decent interviewer) I get in somewhere. Again, I am much more concerned simply about getting into any program rather than getting into a decent/good program (although it would be nice...). As for the research, I did it in undergrad for 3 years and really disliked it. If my step I is lower than it should be, I will do something either 3rd/4th year that would hopefully net me a pub or two but I would much rather not have to rely on that to be competitive.

On a side note- I have certainly done my research into the avg step I's for both DO and MD for rads, studied the charting outcomes based on publication #'s, how much a high step 2 can compensate for a poor step I etc but I believe getting a little feedback from those on SDN would give me better insight into what I should be shooting for/expecting at least for step I...Thanks

 

[killinsound]

^ cali, midwest (stl, chicago, texas), and a few east coast schools

You can apply to everywhere you want in Cali and I'm guessing you want to roll your dice at the bigger east coast programs. I would say you probably won't get an interview from most of the prestigious or large academic programs on the west, east, or midwest. It depends on if you want to roll the dice on these institutions or not. I would say 20-30 programs (excluding the above programs) would be a reasonable target.

The midwest and south will be your best shots.

 

[DrBowtie]

My word of advice is to just apply to as many places as you would want to live.
Applications are far cheaper than medical school apps since there is no secondary fees. Even at the top per app price it was only $25-30 IIRC.

The process is far more unpredictable on the individual program level as well as specialty wide year to year.

You can be more selective as interview start to roll in and decide how to allocate money.

 

[deleted103644]

My word of advice is to just apply to as many places as you would want to live.
Applications are far cheaper than medical school apps since there is no secondary fees. Even at the top per app price it was only $25-30 IIRC.

The process is far more unpredictable on the individual program level as well as specialty wide year to year.

You can be more selective as interview start to roll in and decide how to allocate money.

++

 

[StockApplicant]

-top 5 us medical school
-246 step 1
-pre-clinical: all H
-clinical: half H (obgyn, FM, psych, Rads-2nd half of yr)
half HP (surg, med, ped-1st half of yr)
-research: x1 1st author rads hopefully accepted soon, another 1st author rads submitted before sept 15, x1 RSNA poster, x1 radiology research grant recipient, oral presentation (not presenter) from undergrad in immunology
- extracurric: radiology group officer, a few volunteer activities, etc.
- want to match in boston or NYC at academic center. thoughts?

 

[deleted103644]

-top 5 us medical school
-246 step 1
-pre-clinical: all H
-clinical: half H (obgyn, FM, psych, Rads-2nd half of yr)
half HP (surg, med, ped-1st half of yr)
-research: x1 1st author rads hopefully accepted soon, another 1st author rads submitted before sept 15, x1 RSNA poster, x1 radiology research grant recipient, oral presentation (not presenter) from undergrad in immunology
- extracurric: radiology group officer, a few volunteer activities, etc.
- want to match in boston or NYC at academic center. thoughts?

Should be able to do it.

You HPed the wrong half, but shouldn't hurt too much.

You might not get NYU, MGH, or BWH, but you should be able to get one of the other ones.

No guarantees which one - apply to all.

 

[Fiko18]

Middle-Tier SouthEast Med School
Step 1 - 241
Step 2 - 255
Pre-Clinical: Half A's, Half B's
Clinical: Half A's, Half B's, One C
Research: 2 Publications (1 Rads), 2 Submitted for Pub (Non-rads), 2 Poster Presentations (Non-rads), 1 Oral Presentation (Non-rads)
Extracurriular: Several Strong leadership activities, served on several committees, limited volunteering
Letters: 1 IM, 1 ER, 1 Rads

Hoping to stay in Southeast (Mainly Florida) or go to Cali. Planning to apply to 60-70 programs.

 

[deleted103644]

If you're from Florida, you'll definitely get a Florida program. Maybe not your top choice, but one of the academic ones.

Should be able to land a mid tier Southeast program otherwise.

 

[Fiko18]

Thanks, Do you think I have any shot in California?

 

[deleted103644]

Thanks, Do you think I have any shot in California?

Not at an academic program. Unless one of your pubs is first author in a top journal and you're married to a CA PD.

That said, can always apply, but remember those cross country interviews eat up a lot of time & energy.

 

[drizzt3117]

Not at an academic program. Unless one of your pubs is first author in a top journal and you're married to a CA PD.

That said, can always apply, but remember those cross country interviews eat up a lot of time & energy.

not sure that'll be an issue.

 

[deleted103644]

not sure that'll be an issue.

True, but in general that would be the case.

 

[studentdoc911]

Looking for help on what types of programs to apply to and chances. AuntMinnie has a list of top tier schools, but what about the rest?

From midwest. Would ideally like a bigger city anywhere in the country, academic. Was going to apply to 60 programs but I'm lost when I open up FREIDA.

step 1: 228
step 2: waiting on (hopefully 240+)
top 20 school: High Passes throughout
research:
1 non-rads first author pub
1 first author rads manuscript in submission
1 random sociology pub from college
4 radiology abstracts, 1 non radiology abstract

 

[deleted103644]

Looking for help on what types of programs to apply to and chances. AuntMinnie has a list of top tier schools, but what about the rest?

From midwest. Would ideally like a bigger city anywhere in the country, academic. Was going to apply to 60 programs but I'm lost when I open up FREIDA.

step 1: 228
step 2: waiting on (hopefully 240+)
top 20 school: High Passes throughout
research:
1 non-rads first author pub
1 first author rads manuscript in submission
1 random sociology pub from college
4 radiology abstracts, 1 non radiology abstract

Apply to every Midwestern academic program (easy search on FREIDA).

Apply to every university-affiliated community program in "big" cities in the Midwest. Don't expect love from Chicago, but apply anyway. If you recognize any of the other community programs in that region, apply to them too.

You are unlikely to get an academic place in an urban area in the NE or CA unless they love your research (consider research tracks).

Since your Step 1 is <230 and you are looking for academic in a city, I'd apply very broadly with Midwest community as backups.

 

[jellofish]

step 1: mid 230's
step 2: in december
clinical grades: all HP's
school: avg. school
research: some research
standard ec's

I'm planning on applying to 50 programs, but a resident told me that's overkill for rads, no matter what your stats. Is he wrong, or am I? I want to stay near home in midwest, and want to go to a "decent" program.