FAQ: What are my chances?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I don't think that is true at all. If you have very strong grades and board scores, you can match into a top tier program even without research.
 
LuckyST said:
I don't think that is true at all. If you have very strong grades and board scores, you can match into a top tier program even without research.
Click to expand...

It seems that most 'top tier' programs are at very academic institutions. This gives me the impression that these programs would want residents very committed to research as well. I'm not in the match this year so I'll just see what happens!

Good luck to all in the process.
 
Year: MS3
Basic science: 1 HP/B equiv. rest A/H, 95th+ on shelfs
Step 1: Low 260s
Clincial (so far): H/A equiv. (grade inflation at my school) 96th+ on shelfs
AOA: unlikely (not friends w/ the right people/weak ECs)
Research: none
ECs/Leadership: none
Volunteering: none
Medical school: crappy/unranked allopathic
Class rank: top 10%

I know I will match somewhere (will do 15-20 interviews), but my question is have I basically screwed myself out of top programs? Should I just give up and go for mediocre grades and delay step 2 untill after ERAS and just resign my fate to match at some mediocre program?
 
You should just relax. With all honors, 260s step I, I'm sure you will do amazingly well in the match. If you can, maybe try to get a rads research project under your belt, as that can only help.
 
SGuttenberg said:
Year: MS3
Basic science: 1 HP/B equiv. rest A/H, 95th+ on shelfs
Step 1: Low 260s
Clincial (so far): H/A equiv. (grade inflation at my school) 96th+ on shelfs
AOA: unlikely (not friends w/ the right people/weak ECs)
Research: none
ECs/Leadership: none
Volunteering: none
Medical school: crappy/unranked allopathic
Class rank: top 10%

I know I will match somewhere (will do 15-20 interviews), but my question is have I basically screwed myself out of top programs? Should I just give up and go for mediocre grades and delay step 2 untill after ERAS and just resign my fate to match at some mediocre program?
Click to expand...

Second this. Your board scores and grades, even without the AOA, will get you interviews. I have much less fancy numbers and have 20+ interviews this season.

I have noticed a tendency in people with extremely stellar stats (ie, yours) to tell all their friends how they have no chance of matching. I am never sure if you guys mean that anything less than MGH/Mir/UCSD doesn't count, if you need a little ego boost, or if you genuinely think you won't get the interviews. If the first, I can't help (but second LuckyST's comment that research will help). If it's the second, you will notice your friends tuning you out between September to March. If it's the last...relax. You have great numbers.
 
I guess I didn't make what I was asking clear. I know i will match somewhere but my question is what happens to students w/ only academics to lean on? I mean, I don't want to go to Mass Gen or Hopkins
or anything but I'd still like to go to a solid academic program. Maybe on the level of thomas jefferson, uva, wake forrest and the like. Is that reasonable w/o hardcore volunteering and publications? Should I aim a little lower?

Also i doubt i'm that stellar. Looking at 2009 NRMP stats so many had AOA, publications, volunteering and went to a nih top 40 school. All things I lack. 40 us grads had >260 step 1s. Its all really intimidating.
 
you will most likely match if you keep up those stats. If you don't get any honors in clinics, it will be hard to get interviews at top tier places, but your Step 1 will help you for sure.

Work on getting as many honors this year as possible. It is probably the most important part of your application, because it is the basis for other categories that count separately (ie. AOA, class rank, deans letter)
 
hey all, I am in the bottom of my class, step 1 233, step 2 247, some minor research, and grades that aren't exactly spectacular. I have got 8 interviews so far (out of 45 programs- still waiting to hear from 25) and am wondering what the future will hold. Not sleeping at all, and wondering what I should do.........any advice from anyone in similar shoes would be appreciated.
 
8 interviews means ur chances of matching are strong. I don't know exact stats, but I am sure it is VERY difficult for anyone to match at #8 or below on their rank list, based on the match algorithm. So your chances are likely only slightly different than those who have 15 interviews.
 
hmmmm....
I feel a little better already, so THANKS! It is just so easy to be hard on yourself and think about how many highly qualified applicants go to each interview, it seems like the odds are against me, but I will keep my head up and interview well. I guess what I am really trying to say is: DO NOT GIVE UP PEOPLE!
 
does a 229 step 1 make it really difficult for me to match radiology? I am not looking at top programs but I would like to match either in Florida or New England where I am from. I am assuming the rest of my application will be strong, I expect HP for most of my 3rd year grades.
 
SGuttenberg said:
I guess I didn't make what I was asking clear. I know i will match somewhere but my question is what happens to students w/ only academics to lean on? I mean, I don't want to go to Mass Gen or Hopkins
or anything but I'd still like to go to a solid academic program. Maybe on the level of thomas jefferson, uva, wake forrest and the like. Is that reasonable w/o hardcore volunteering and publications? Should I aim a little lower?

Also i doubt i'm that stellar. Looking at 2009 NRMP stats so many had AOA, publications, volunteering and went to a nih top 40 school. All things I lack. 40 us grads had >260 step 1s. Its all really intimidating.
Click to expand...

What you will find is that the interviewing trail is full of all types, and those superstars will have an invite to the top programs...but that still leaves a lot of interview slots for the rest of us. What gives me confidence is that I was also given an interview, so it means someone looked at my application and saw something they liked just as much in there.

I am also shooting for solid academic programs. My grades are not as good as yours. My board scores were not as great, and my school is not top 40. I have more than enough interviews at the caliber of programs you are hoping for. Write your personal statement with your goal in mind (and have a slightly different version for community programs). I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how you do.
 
Step 1 - 260
preclinical - all A's/honors
clinical - A/Honor in Surg (only grade back so far)
med school - low tier in South
research - none so far in med school
undergrad (no idea if it helps at all) - Stanford
Born and raised in Socal.

Posted on this thread previously but I have a more concrete/somewhat related posting. I recently have started coming up with a list of programs I'm interested in applying to and I am wondering what y'all will have to say about the composition/diversity as well as the total number.

19 top tier/very competitive programs in all regions of the country (MGH, MIR, UCSF, UW, Vandy, Emory etc.)

20 programs in warm weather regions/desirable cities (Cali, Florida, Texas, Arizona) that includes University programs (UCI, U of Arizona, U of Miami, UT Houston etc) and Community programs (Cedars Sinai, Mt. Sinai Miami, St. Joe's in Phoenix, SB Cottage, etc)

11 programs in the South - UAB, MCG, Savannah, MUSC, L'ville, Ochsner NO, UT at Memphis etc

New Mexico's categorical program.

51 total programs - 35 University based, 16 Community stand-alone/community affiliated with a Univ.

I strongly prefer to go to a warm weather program (returning to Cali is ideal but I know it's very tough) but will obviously be thankful for an opportunity to train at somewhere like MGH or Hopkins.

51 programs too many? Too many top tier? Not enough regional? - I really don't see myself living in places like Jackson, MS or Knoxville, TN.

With attending a low tier med school and not having any med school research, what would be examples of "safety" programs or do none exist given the previously mentioned weaknesses?

Thanks
 
Based on what you posted you are a very competitive applicant. 51 programs for you is going to be way too many. My application is similar to yours, I applied to 45ish, and it was way too many.

My suggestion- pick your 30-35 favorite programs (at most), and apply to just those. You will match.
 
This is my first post, so bear with me. Based on the information below, what are my chances of matching? Please keep in mind that I am an American-born IMG who attended St. George's University.
Step I: 246/99
Step II: 249/99
Step II CS: pass on first attempt
GPA: >3.7
Clinicals: A's (SGU doesnt use the honors/high honors system)
LoRs: I haven't seen them but I am pretty sure they're quite good based on feedback I have received.
Other: I'm pretty normal personality-wise and probably come off as such.
Research: One project but basically nothing to brag about and no publications.
Interviews: I have been lucky enough to receive 10 interviews, mostly from community programs, 3 of which I attended as a rotating 4th year medical student. 2 programs were university programs, one was university-affiliated, the rest were community programs.

Thank you for responding to this!
 
Last edited:
PokerDoc said:
does a 229 step 1 make it really difficult for me to match radiology? I am not looking at top programs but I would like to match either in Florida or New England where I am from. I am assuming the rest of my application will be strong, I expect HP for most of my 3rd year grades.
Click to expand...

I know of a candidate(an IMG, no less) who secured a radio residency with step I's in the teens at a good community program. The Step II score was similar to Step I. This person rotated incredibly well and had a sparkling personality; most places that this person rotated at said that this person was one of the most motivated, aggressive students they had.
While this is obviously a special case, it should give you a little more hope if you have other attributes that are attractive to programs. Familiarity, charisma, and motivation count.
Good luck to you and keep the faith, brother!
 
I have two questions about the application process.

1) How many letters is sufficient? And what kind of letters do they want, ie. what specialties. I'm assuming 1 from rads, 1 from surg, and 1 from medicine?

2) Do I need a Radiology chairman letter?

3) What months do the majority of Radiology interviews take place? Dec-Jan or Nov-Dec? Trying to figure out when to take vacation.

Thanks.
 
badasshairday said:
I have two questions about the application process.

1) How many letters is sufficient? And what kind of letters do they want, ie. what specialties. I'm assuming 1 from rads, 1 from surg, and 1 from medicine?

2) Do I need a Radiology chairman letter?

3) What months do the majority of Radiology interviews take place? Dec-Jan or Nov-Dec? Trying to figure out when to take vacation.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

1. Three letters is standard, 1 rads, 2 others. The only case that applicants should have 4 is if they have a research letter. It doesn't really matter who writes it in my opinion (I did rads, neuro and medicine). Basically just get them from whoever knows you best and will write a good letter.
2. No.
3. December and January.

You are welcome. And that's actually 3 questions 🙂
 
can anyone please help me. i started med school thinking i just wanted to be some sort of doctor but im just figuring out that there are some type of doctoring that i could live without and so now considering radiology. ill take any spot that will take me really; will probably apply to 40 community programs.
Step 1: 249
3rd year: 2 pass, 2 high pass, no honors; radiology course: B-
GPA: 3.02
Rank: 50th percentile
School: rural, unremarkable
Research: none
Volunteering: some

im planning to work on my step 2 to make sure my step 1 wasnt some sort of a fluke and do a radiology rotation early on.
 
myhandsarecold said:
can anyone please help me. i started med school thinking i just wanted to be some sort of doctor but im just figuring out that there are some type of doctoring that i could live without and so now considering radiology. ill take any spot that will take me really; will probably apply to 40 community programs.
Step 1: 249
3rd year: 2 pass, 2 high pass, no honors; radiology course: B-
GPA: 3.02
Rank: 50th percentile
School: rural, unremarkable
Research: none
Volunteering: some

im planning to work on my step 2 to make sure my step 1 wasnt some sort of a fluke and do a radiology rotation early on.
Click to expand...

Here is my two cents. Try to write a case study or do a research rotation to round out ur application - def something that academic programs and community programs like.

Take step 2 EARLY only if you think you can do well (do not drop below 240). Otherwise, wait until after you submit all your application material so you won't have to show your USMLE 2 scores to programs. Your score is really solid and should get you a comfortable amount of interviews.

Apply early - like first day, preferable w/in the first few hrs of Eras opening cuz i believe applications are downloaded in batches that are first come first serve.

Try to get good letters of rec. Its hard to get one from a pd or chairman sometimes. So I actually did two weeks at a private practice community hospital and got to know one of the attendings - he wrote me a very strong and personal letter that I think speaks more than a generic/lukewarm chairman/pd letter.

also, do audition rotations at a "safety program" and "reach programs."

Overall, I think your stats are above average. Your board score is very good, but the rest of ur application is unremarkeable. But fortunately, the ancillary aspects like clinical rot grades, LOR, volunteering, personal statement etc can all be improved and worked on quickly.

Private message me if you have any more questions....

good luck🙂
 
Hi all..
First of all....Thanks for this great thread Hans..I was going through the same issues

.......🙂....
guess it was a silly question anyway...🙂
 
Last edited:
does anyone know how competitive the Florida residencies are for out of stater's? Particularly the two in Miami?
 
n=1, but I am from Wash state. Pretty solid applicant. Applied to a few Florida programs.

Not a word, not even a rejection.😕

FWIW. Maybe if your state is more local than mine you may have better results.

PokerDoc said:
does anyone know how competitive the Florida residencies are for out of stater's? Particularly the two in Miami?
Click to expand...
 
Azadre said:
What is a theoretical Step 1 cut-off where it becomes worth not applying? <235?
Click to expand...

Are you being serious? I'm sure you know the average is like 238 or 239, you think if you are five points below the average it might not be worth applying?

For any nervous MS3 reading this, scores in the lower 230s might give you fewer options but you should certainly still match, same for 220s (though you get to be less choosy on location), below 220 it's more difficult and you are probably looking at a much smaller group of interviews but plenty of people match there every year. About 120 of the 900 or so total people who matched last year were < 220. So unless you got a 195 or something you can probably match radiology if you're serious about it and willing to go anywhere to do it.
 
Anyone having any luck figuring out where to apply?
Right now my list is at ~60 (not including prelim spots 😱)just from choosing states that I'd be fine living in. I'm half tempted to just spent the extra cash upfront and potentially turn down interviews.

Any other tips for figuring out a programs competitiveness other than the obvious academic vs. community? I'm interested in the South/Midwest programs. No desire to go to either coast except if I can snag an interview at one of the big names on the east coast.
 
DrBowtie said:
Anyone having any luck figuring out where to apply?
Right now my list is at ~60 (not including prelim spots 😱)just from choosing states that I'd be fine living in. I'm half tempted to just spent the extra cash upfront and potentially turn down interviews.

Any other tips for figuring out a programs competitiveness other than the obvious academic vs. community? I'm interested in the South/Midwest programs. No desire to go to either coast except if I can snag an interview at one of the big names on the east coast.
Click to expand...

I spent a good amount of time trying to figure this out as well. Made numerous posts on SDN and AM. I whittled my list down to 45 but it's still fluid and probably will end up including more. I want to go back to Cali but I also don't mind spending the extra money to apply to some big names on the East Coast.

From what I've gathered is that if you are a very strong applicant 30-35 is a good number. Strong applicants have told me that in hindsight 40 was too high for them. Competitive applicants probably 40-50.

Obviously the region plays a big role. The South and the non-Chicago Midwest aren't as competitive so you can be safe applying to less programs.

Still haven't figured out a decent way to figure out competitiveness besides "big name", academic vs community, and location. I would just ask around about specific programs
 
2012mdc said:
I spent a good amount of time trying to figure this out as well. Made numerous posts on SDN and AM. I whittled my list down to 45 but it's still fluid and probably will end up including more. I want to go back to Cali but I also don't mind spending the extra money to apply to some big names on the East Coast.

From what I've gathered is that if you are a very strong applicant 30-35 is a good number. Strong applicants have told me that in hindsight 40 was too high for them. Competitive applicants probably 40-50.

Obviously the region plays a big role. The South and the non-Chicago Midwest aren't as competitive so you can be safe applying to less programs.

Still haven't figured out a decent way to figure out competitiveness besides "big name", academic vs community, and location. I would just ask around about specific programs
Click to expand...

That is still a lot of programs! 30-35 should be the max if you are a strong applicant (meaning 245+ step 1, couple of H's in third year). And even that is overkill. I have a family friend finishing up Rads residency at Northwestern, he said just apply to 15 programs (not including prelims/TY) that you REALLY want to go to, and you will match. He applied to 25, and thought that was too many. He was a great applicant though.

I'm thinking I will do 30 upfront, and regret it, but the cost of applying is miniscule compared to the cost of not matching! 😱
 
badasshairday said:
That is still a lot of programs! 30-35 should be the max if you are a strong applicant (meaning 245+ step 1, couple of H's in third year). And even that is overkill. I have a family friend finishing up Rads residency at Northwestern, he said just apply to 15 programs (not including prelims/TY) that you REALLY want to go to, and you will match. He applied to 25, and thought that was too many. He was a great applicant though.

I'm thinking I will do 30 upfront, and regret it, but the cost of applying is miniscule compared to the cost of not matching! 😱
Click to expand...

Yeah my numbers are strong save for research but my school isn't. I added programs due to regional bias (med school in the South) and the fact I really don't know how to discriminate between the big name East Coast schools. I want to get back to the West Coast but I would not rank SB Cottage over MGH if given the opportunity. When you include a lot of West Coast programs, the big names on the East and the regional programs it's easy to get to 45. I probably will try to get it down to 35-40.
It's just hard because outside of the West Coast I don't have a strong preference to where I want to live and program quality can make up for bad location (ex - Wake)
 
Last edited:
If I do end up apply to Rads, I think I will end up applying to about 50-60. I'm an "average" candidate for Rads and I either want to end up in Chicago or a program that pumps out solid grads ready for private practice.

BTW, when did you guys finally start developing the "eye" for radiology. I just finished my Rads rotation and I definitely enjoyed it. However, I am worried that I will suck at it lol. I only read Radiology 101 and bits of Learning Radiology and I do feel stronger after these 4 weeks. I am wondering if B&H + 1 year of solid training during PGY2 gives an individual a trained eye ready to take the responsibility of taking ER call, etc.
 
Here, I'll tell you how many I applied to with the following stats:

Mid tier coastal school
Step 1 260s, Step 2 high 250s, both available at application time
One first author manuscript, two other authored manuscripts
6 authored abstracts, 4 presentations, 2 research awards (none radiology related)
Senior AOA
3 honors 3rd year, multiple basic science honors
No away electives

Applied 41 Radiology - received 30 invites attended 16
Applied 10 TY - received 6 invites attended 4
Applied 10 Prelims - received 9 invites, attended 5

PM me for questions if youd like
 
I posted my stats earlier.

1. I have gotten: "shy", "reserverd", "quiet", etc. on quite a few evals so this is likely going in the mspe, is this a major red flag?

2. At this point I am now 2 Hs 2 HPs. I got HPs on rotations where I spent alot of time where another student was a gunner. 50/50 H/HP is good enough right? Do schools ever put miniboard scores in MSPEs? Even in the courses where I got HPs I got 95th+ percentile on the shelf.

3. I have given up on AOA and its stupid popularity politics. I will not apply for senior AOA. I don't think this will make any difference. Is this correct?
 
Yes, if those adjectives go in the MSPE that will definitely have an effect on your app in all honesty.

Yes, my school put the shelf exam scores on the mspe. It was commented on a few times.

No, AOA is extremely important and I wouldn't give up on it if you still think you have a chance. It was commented on almost every interview I went to. Don't waste your time if you don't think you have chance.
 
konRAD may be right that those mspe comments could have some impact on your application, but you destroyed step 1 (congrats!) and have good grades so far third year. Hang your hat on those. Do some research between now and interviews. That will help make up the difference for you, I think.

I got all of my interview invites prior to Nov 1 when the mspe goes out, except for cali programs and places where I was pulled off the waitlist. So it may not be a significant factor in garnering significant IVs to match. You seem to want to go to a "top" program, which tend to give out interviews after November. That is not the case for all of them, however, and you will still likely get at a least a few invites to top places regardless.

I am AOA, no one mentioned it in my interviews, except for my home program, fwiw. That being said, it probably does have some beneficial effect, so do as well as you can in your rotations and hope for the best. Keep your chin up. 👍
 
badasshairday said:
Dude, what is wrong with being quiet and smart? I had that on my surgery eval...... And one of my internal medicine attendings, who I think really just was trying to give me a hard time during the rotation called me timid. But for peds, rads, I did not get that. Nor do I expect to get it for FM and Anesthesiology. But I doubt they are going to say that I'm a chatterbox and super outgoing.
Click to expand...

They ran an experiment at Stanford where they sat random students down in small groups and gave them problems to solve. The purpose was to evaluate social dynamics with a special emphasis on how "leaders" are chosen.

Findings:

(1) The loudest most talkative people, even if they were wrong the majority of the time, were almost always selected as the group leader. And people tended to respect and listen to this person more.

(2) The Quiet people, even if their suggestions were right, were not respected, not listened to, and never selected as group leaders.

Conclusion: Americans value belligerence and stupidity.

I guess it makes sense.

I think Bertrand Russell said something along these lines about people in general.
 
Really bums me out, but its absolutely correct that outgoing folks get the jobs, money, power, women etc. even when their massive egos are based on absolutely nothing.

I was hoping radiology would be more accepting of more subdued personalities, but I guess not. Aside from the maserati and porsche driving IR folks most older radiologists I've met seemed to have personalities similar to mine. I guess the money and lifestyle (which by the way nobody knows if it will last) is driving more gunners to the field.

My only concern is matching a program that will get me a fellowship that can land me a decent job. It's kind of hard to get good fellowships coming from crappy programs due to 1) connections 2) quality research opportunities
 
Man. Well at least I know now. I got the "quiet" comment in surgery, but still got Honors. Whatever...... Is the MSPE, AKA Dean's Letter?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WildWing
FAQ - Radiology
Replies
2
Views
3K
guytakingboards
G
M
What are my chances?
Replies
3
Views
2K
mattb1616
M
WildWing
FAQ - Nuclear Medicine
Replies
0
Views
726
WildWing
WildWing
WildWing
FAQ - Interventional Radiology
Replies
1
Views
2K
irwarrior
I
Y
What are my chances for CA and NY?
Replies
4
Views
2K
Aurum
A
Top