Farily Extensive Criminal Record

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hope06

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I am really hoping someone here can help me with this.
I am a member of this site, but created this new name to protect my identity....

While I was in high school (I'm 26 now) I got involved with a pretty rough group of friends. In the span of about 5 years, I received the following tickets:
Possession of Marijuana
Possession of Paraphernalia by a minor (marijuana pipe)
Littering
Speeding
DWI
2nd DWI
Minor in Possession of Alcohol
and another Minor in Possession of Alcohol

By the time I was 21, I had left my old friends and began what turned out to be a successful career in business. I hired a super expensive lawyer, entered an outpatient treatment program, and had nearly all of the cases dismissed. The only cases I have actually been convicted of are MIP of Paraphernalia (I was 17) and Littering.

I have talked to lawyers, searched everything I can online, read through all of the previous posts I could find on the topic, but I am still lost. Can I still become a physician? Can I be accepted to Med School?

I am going into my Junior year, I have a 4.0, and have shadowed and volunteered by butt off, if that matters.
 
i believe you CAN be accepted into med school, but a rap sheet will certainly knock your application down a few pegs. those are pretty minor offenses, though. it's not like you have assault or any felonies weighing you down.
 
OP, i am finding some serious inconsistencies w/ what you are saying. Despite your apparent laundry list of problems/criminal records your telling me that you have a 4.0 GPA?

Someone w/ a 4.0 gpa has not slipped up or made a mistake even once in their entire academic career, hence the PERFECT gpa. You were able to manage this somehow but still do all of the things that you listed?

There are only 2 possible explanations the way I see it:

1. Your full of it (most likely) and your not getting in anywhere

2. Your actually a genius who should do VERY well on the MCAT based on what your saying and might have a chance at acceptance
 
Or the 3rd option, you didn't read my post. The problems I had were while I was in high school. I'm 26 and just now technically a Junior. I'm not a genius, but work hard.
I'm not here to be flamed, I just want honest advice from anyone who happens to know about the subject, so unless you do, don't worry about it.
 
Healer of Ills said:
OP, i am finding some serious inconsistencies w/ what you are saying. Despite your apparent laundry list of problems/criminal records your telling me that you have a 4.0 GPA?

Someone w/ a 4.0 gpa has not slipped up or made a mistake even once in their entire academic career, hence the PERFECT gpa. You were able to manage this somehow but still do all of the things that you listed?

There are only 2 possible explanations the way I see it:

1. Your full of it (most likely) and your not getting in anywhere

2. Your actually a genius who should do VERY well on the MCAT based on what your saying and might have a chance at acceptance
Click to expand...

Chances are he took a few years off between high school and college...

EDIT: OP beat me to it.
 
So the only things on your record are the littering and possession of a pipe at age 17? Does this mean that's the only things you need to report?

I'm not even close to going through the process just finished my first semester, but reading your description it seems as if all those things were done when you were in high school. I doubt this would affect anything. Actually, I feel as if it might even benefit you because you have a 4.0 and it really shows how much you matured and how focused/determined you are at this point. I doubt littering and having a pipe at the age 17 will ever haunt you. Get advice from someone who is going through the process, but from reading your description I doubt this is going to be a problem at all
 
Healer of Ills, I believe the OP was saying that he did those things in high school, not college. It is entirely possible to screw around in high school but pull yourself together and do extraordinarily well in college work.
OP, I think that if what you are saying is true, you are extremely admirable and you will be very successful in life. You definitely face an uphill battle, though, even with most of those charges dropped. Still, the fact that the crimes were committed years ago and all but the littering and paraphenelia charges were dropped puts you in a very reasonable position where you could make an effective argument that you have changed since then and you have learned from your mistakes. Get a 31+ on your MCAT and address these issues in your personal statement and I think you do have a shot.
 
OP, this is by no means a comprehensive answer, but I literally just finished filling out the info for a criminal background check requested by a med school I was accepted to. (I think all the AMCAS schools use the same service, but I could be wrong.) Anyway, they only asked if I was convicted or plead guilty to a crime. It explicitly said not to check yes if you had only been charged with a crime and not found guilty, or if charges were dropped. So I think in your case the only things you'd have against you are the littering and paraphernalia. I've heard of people getting into med schools with much worse, so I think you'll be ok.
 
hope06 said:
I am really hoping someone here can help me with this.
I am a member of this site, but created this new name to protect my identity....

While I was in high school (I'm 26 now) I got involved with a pretty rough group of friends. In the span of about 5 years, I received the following tickets:
Possession of Marijuana
Possession of Paraphernalia by a minor (marijuana pipe)
Littering
Speeding
DWI
2nd DWI
Minor in Possession of Alcohol
and another Minor in Possession of Alcohol

By the time I was 21, I had left my old friends and began what turned out to be a successful career in business. I hired a super expensive lawyer, entered an outpatient treatment program, and had nearly all of the cases dismissed. The only cases I have actually been convicted of are MIP of Paraphernalia (I was 17) and Littering.

I have talked to lawyers, searched everything I can online, read through all of the previous posts I could find on the topic, but I am still lost. Can I still become a physician? Can I be accepted to Med School?

I am going into my Junior year, I have a 4.0, and have shadowed and volunteered by butt off, if that matters.
Click to expand...

Also, to try and help answer your question, it sounds like you have quite a story of redemption and the stats to back it up. Continue on the right track and be ready to explain yourself in secondaries/interviews. I'm sure you will get into a couple good schools.
 
nolookpass said:
So the only things on your record are the littering and possession of a pipe at age 17? Does this mean that's the only things you need to report?

I'm not even close to going through the process just finished my first semester, but reading your description it seems as if all those things were done when you were in high school. I doubt this would affect anything. Actually, I feel as if it might even benefit you because you have a 4.0 and it really shows how much you matured and how focused/determined you are at this point. I doubt littering and having a pipe at the age 17 will ever haunt you. Get advice from someone who is going through the process, but from reading your description I doubt this is going to be a problem at all
Click to expand...

Well, that's one thing I'm wondering. The lawyer who handled this all for me years ago advised me to go ahead and be honest on applications when they ask if you were "charged", but I can leave it out if they ask about "convictions". Since I haven't applied yet, I'm not sure how this will be asked.

Ioriscrub said:
Healer of Ills, I believe the OP was saying that he did those things in high school, not college. It is entirely possible to screw around in high school but pull yourself together and do extraordinarily well in college work.
OP, I think that if what you are saying is true, you are extremely admirable and you will be very successful in life. You definitely face an uphill battle, though, even with most of those charges dropped. Still, the fact that the crimes were committed years ago and all but the littering and paraphenelia charges were dropped puts you in a very reasonable position where you could make an effective argument that you have changed since then and you have learned from your mistakes. Get a 31+ on your MCAT and address these issues in your personal statement and I think you do have a shot.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea to address it in my personal statement. Why didn't I think of that...
 
Are you blaming all of your past behavior on the group of friends you had? I'm just wondering how you've changed since then (even given that it's been ~9 years.)
 
gettheleadout said:
Are you blaming all of your past behavior on the group of friends you had? I'm just wondering how you've changed since then (even given that it's been ~9 years.)
Click to expand...

I had a bad childhood that I didn't really think was relevant to this question, so I didn't go into that. But basically yes, I got into a crowd of kids that drank and used drugs. One day I grew up and started taking responsibility for my life.
Claiming that I'm perfect is kind of the opposite of what I am doing here...
Just need some advice.
 
BF2BC EMT said:
Two DWI's, just gone😕
Click to expand...

Dismissed. I was a minor for both. Over $10k in legal bills, treatment programs, community service, and a couple years of court, so it's not like they just vanished on their own.
 
hope06 said:
Well, that's one thing I'm wondering. The lawyer who handled this all for me years ago advised me to go ahead and be honest on applications when they ask if you were "charged", but I can leave it out if they ask about "convictions". Since I haven't applied yet, I'm not sure how this will be asked.



That's a great idea to address it in my personal statement. Why didn't I think of that...
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty accurate. Most applications will only ask for convictions. A few will ask for all charges. You can do a Certiphi CBC (which med schools use) on yourself after submitting your primary AMCAS application to see what comes up. Also check public records to see what is available online.

I might be hesitant to bring up your criminal history in your personal statement since, most likely, the majority of schools will only need to hear about the littering/pipe. You wouldn't want to disclose everything right away if you don't have to.
 
What exactly one has to report when applying seems to be one of the areas that people aren't completely sure about here on SDN. My advice might be to anonymously make some phone calls and ask some schools themselves, considering you have already talked with a lawyer.

However, I'd hope that medical schools will see that this was in your past, and would accept you regardless.

best of luck!
 
juliedi said:
OP, this is by no means a comprehensive answer, but I literally just finished filling out the info for a criminal background check requested by a med school I was accepted to. (I think all the AMCAS schools use the same service, but I could be wrong.) Anyway, they only asked if I was convicted or plead guilty to a crime. It explicitly said not to check yes if you had only been charged with a crime and not found guilty, or if charges were dropped. So I think in your case the only things you'd have against you are the littering and paraphernalia. I've heard of people getting into med schools with much worse, so I think you'll be ok.
Click to expand...


This is EXACTLY what I was hoping to hear. THANK YOU!
 
hope06 said:
Dismissed. I was a minor for both. Over $10k in legal bills, treatment programs, community service, and a couple years of court, so it's not like they just vanished on their own.
Click to expand...

That's it? no wonder we have a big impaired driving problem. All you have to do is some treatment progs, community service. Then get out to do it all over again.

just being real.

anyways good luck
 
Yes, they only ask about conviction in the primaries. In some secondaries, they may ask about being charged. I suggest you talk to your super expensive lawyer about getting your record expunged/sealed from when you were a minor.
 
BF2BC EMT said:
That's it? no wonder we have a big impaired driving problem. All you have to do is some treatment progs, community service. Then get out to do it all over again.

just being real.

anyways good luck
Click to expand...
This is for minors. Try doing that as an adult and you'll have your record for sure and maybe a few months in jail. In some places, a second offense is a felony that could get you state prison time.
 
BF2BC EMT said:
That's it? no wonder we have a big impaired driving problem. All you have to do is some treatment progs, community service. Then get out to do it all over again.

just being real.
Click to expand...


If you think people would go though all of that just to go out and drink and drive again, you're impaired.
It isn't just community service and treatment programs, it involves random drug-testing (in itself extremely difficult for someone who has a full time job), counseling, group therapy, AA and NA meetings, numerous court appearances, working in filthy community service conditions, and of course lots of $$.

If you are considering becoming a physician, you should really try to understand more about substance abuse.
 
BF2BC EMT said:
That's it? no wonder we have a big impaired driving problem. All you have to do is some treatment progs, community service. Then get out to do it all over again.

just being real.

anyways good luck
Click to expand...

Please. Get off your pedestal.

Hopefully the OP will be a better doctor because he will be able to understand patients make mistakes and turn their lives around!

I believe both AMCAS and the Background check I also just filled out are exactly as phrased as above!
 
Raziela said:
Please. Get off your pedestal.

Hopefully the OP will be a better doctor because he will be able to understand patients make mistakes and turn their lives around!

I believe both AMCAS and the Background check I also just filled out are exactly as phrased as above!
Click to expand...

nope, sitting on a couch.
 
hope06 said:
If you think people would go though all of that just to go out and drink and drive again, you're impaired.
It isn't just community service and treatment programs, it involves random drug-testing (in itself extremely difficult for someone who has a full time job), counseling, group therapy, AA and NA meetings, numerous court appearances, working in filthy community service conditions, and of course lots of $$.

If you are considering becoming a physician, you should really try to understand more about substance abuse.
Click to expand...

MANY people do, so get real. multiple DUI convictions and the 5th time they finally kill someone. happens all the time.
 
OP, honestly, with that long of a rap sheet -- even with multiple dismissals/dropped charges -- I'd still have my concerns. I think an adcom looking at that would have to wonder what a licensing board would think and they probably would look at that as "no way in HELL was that guy innocent of all of those charges nor has he likely changed!" That being said, perhaps with enough evidence of change, an adcom might consider you. Have you gone above and beyond (i.e., not just having completed the req'd treatment -- actually speaking to young people or doing add'l community service related to drug/EtOH abuse)? You need to show evidence you've changed. As was mentioned earlier, by telling us that it was b/c of your friends (in essence saying "it was my friends' fault"), you basically told us you probably haven't changed much. Whether or not that is true I don't know, but it is the impression that kind of statement gives. You need to own up to your mistakes and express things in terms of your grown and change.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Yes, they only ask about conviction in the primaries. In some secondaries, they may ask about being charged. I suggest you talk to your super expensive lawyer about getting your record expunged/sealed from when you were a minor.
Click to expand...

I did check that...he says 10 years before I can have them expunged.

TriagePreMed said:
This is for minors. Try doing that as an adult and you'll have your record for sure and maybe a few months in jail. In some places, a second offense is a felony that could get you state prison time.
Click to expand...

It's different for different states. In my state 3 DWIs = felony and you have to enter DWI court, which is a treatment based program whether than sending people to jail. I have worked with many alcoholics and addicts for which this has worked well.
I see many of these people when I shadow in the ER, so it is important for pre-meds to have a grasp on what is going on in the drug community....
 
TriagePreMed said:
This is for minors. Try doing that as an adult and you'll have your record for sure and maybe a few months in jail. In some places, a second offense is a felony that could get you state prison time.
Click to expand...

I'm by no means reprimanding the OP, cause I do not know him enough to make a judgement. I know legally minors are treated differently in this matter, but minors can drive anywhere adults drive and have the same responsibilities behind the wheel. There is absolutely no difference bt a minor driving DWI and hitting someone and an adult driving and hitting someone, cause the results exactly the same, why would the minor not be as responsible? I know the law, im just ranting about it.

To answer your question, OP, like a previous poster had said, schools want to know if you are CONVICTED or not, not just charged, but this is AFTER you get accepted, so I am not sure what it would be before you get accepted.
 
osumc2014 said:
I'm by no means reprimanding the OP, cause I do not know him enough to make a judgement. I know legally minors are treated differently in this matter, but minors can drive anywhere adults drive and have the same responsibilities behind the wheel. There is absolutely no difference bt a minor driving DWI and hitting someone and an adult driving and hitting someone, cause the results exactly the same, why would the minor not be as responsible? I know the law, im just ranting about it.
Click to expand...

Part of the problem is the zero tolerance alcohol laws that we have.

In most states the law treats a minor who had one beer and blew a 0.02 (under the limit for adults) the same as one who had a few more and blew a 0.1 (over the limit for adults), both end up with a DUI.
 
I wonder if there might be some advantages to this kind of history. He's obviously cleaned up his act, and an acceptance committee might think that his past might make him more able to relate to other people with similar backgrounds.
He would certainly be an unusual case, and medschools love their diversity.
 
osumc2014 said:
I'm by no means reprimanding the OP, cause I do not know him enough to make a judgement. I know legally minors are treated differently in this matter, but minors can drive anywhere adults drive and have the same responsibilities behind the wheel. There is absolutely no difference bt a minor driving DWI and hitting someone and an adult driving and hitting someone, cause the results exactly the same, why would the minor not be as responsible? I know the law, im just ranting about it.
Click to expand...
The same reason a stab wound from an 18 year old is the same as from a 16 year old. Courts just treat minors differently because maturity also plays a role. Fair or not, that's the law.
 
hope06 said:
Can I still become a physician? Can I be accepted to Med School?
Click to expand...
Yes. And yes. I don't understand the concern. Convictions are the only thing that matter. And these two are petty (littering and paraphanalia?). The question is this: do you have to mention these two convictions considering you were 17 (a minor)?

Even if you do have to report them, you can certainly still become a physician. I know a person who attended a USNews "top five" med school who had a DWI during college that was not dismissed. I know another person, again "top five," who had a marijuana grow operation in his place during college and had his apartment door busted down by police (i don't know if it was DEA). He literally had a gun in his face. (I do not know however what he was charged with/convicted of). True stories, i do not lie.

The consequence of having a conviction on your record permanently is probably one of malpractice insurance.

Anyway, all, the OP is clearly a troll. Somebody who has talked to a lawyer would not be asking this question.
 
TriagePreMed said:
The same reason a stab wound from an 18 year old is the same as from a 16 year old. Courts just treat minors differently because maturity also plays a role. Fair or not, that's the law.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's not always "right", but I can't be faulted for using the law in my favor. Regardless, mine were not dismissed because I was a minor. I don't want to go into details, but if you have a good lawyer, combined with a faulty PD, there will be loopholes.

TriagePreMed said:
How far from those 10 years are you? It might be best to just wait and get that.
Click to expand...

My second DWI was my last ticket and I was 19. I already have a pretty late start, so I'm not sure I want to wait.
 
ChubbyBaby said:
Yes. And yes. I don't understand the concern. Convictions are the only thing that matter. And these two are petty (littering and paraphanalia?). The question is this: do you have to mention these two convictions considering you were 17 (a minor)?

Even if you do have to report them, you can certainly still become a physician. I know a person who attended a USNews "top five" med school who had a DWI during college that was not dismissed. I know another person, again "top five," who had a marijuana grow operation in his place during college and had his apartment door busted down by police (i don't know if it was DEA). He literally had a gun in his face. (I do not know however what he was charged with/convicted of). True stories, i do not lie.

The consequence of having a conviction on your record permanently is probably one of malpractice insurance.

Anyway, all, the OP is clearly a troll. Somebody who has talked to a lawyer would not be asking this question.
Click to expand...

Actually not true, but I appreciate the rest of your input. I get the feeling that the lawyer is trying to cover his own tail by not telling me conclusively that I don't have to mention them...?
 
hope06 said:
Actually not true, but I appreciate the rest of your input. I get the feeling that the lawyer is trying to cover his own tail by not telling me conclusively that I don't have to mention them...?
Click to expand...

I suspect you're a troll because you provided A LOT of superfluous info. Why mention DWI if it was dismissed?

Your post should have read:

"Hi. I have a littering and drug paraphanalia conviction from when I was 17 (a minor). What are the potential consequences of this w/ respect to (1) getting into med school; (2) becoming a licensed physician in my state.

If your story is real, then do not hesitate to apply, and good luck. I know a surprising amount about medical school considering i'm a dentist.
 
ChubbyBaby said:
I suspect you're a troll because you provided A LOT of superfluous info. Why mention DWI if it was dismissed?

Your post should have read:

"Hi. I have a littering and drug paraphanalia conviction from when I was 17 (a minor). What are the potential consequences of this w/ respect to (1) getting into med school; (2) becoming a licensed physician in my state.

If your story is real, then do not hesitate to apply, and good luck. I know a surprising amount about medical school considering i'm a dentist.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, you are posting this in the wrong forum. You should post this in the med school forum, or practicing doctors forum. They would know more than people who are applying.
 
ChubbyBaby said:
I suspect you're a troll because you provided A LOT of superfluous info. Why mention DWI if it was dismissed?

Your post should have read:

"Hi. I have a littering and drug paraphanalia conviction from when I was 17 (a minor). What are the potential consequences of this w/ respect to (1) getting into med school; (2) becoming a licensed physician in my state.

If your story is real, then do not hesitate to apply, and good luck. I know a surprising amount about medical school considering i'm a dentist.
Click to expand...

Huge relief. Thank you.
My lawyer is very cautious about telling me to leave it off applications. His secretary actually told me she wouldn't have any way of knowing what type of background check the school would run because there are so many and some checks actually show all police history even if a conviction was avoided. This is what worries me.
If med schools only care about convictions, then I can do this.
 
hope06 said:
Huge relief. Thank you.
My lawyer is very cautious about telling me to leave it off applications. His secretary actually told me she wouldn't have any way of knowing what type of background check the school would run because there are so many and some checks actually show all police history even if a conviction was avoided. This is what worries me.
If med schools only care about convictions, then I can do this.
Click to expand...
If the charges are shown, even if dropped, you're going to face an uphill battle. Repeat offenses =/= maturity.
 
Bacchus said:
If the charges are shown, even if dropped, you're going to face an uphill battle. Repeat offenses =/= maturity.
Click to expand...

You're right, if they do perform a background check the charges may be shown. And repeat charge may look bad.

However, the OP may not have to list anything on an application if they ask only for convictions (and the ones as a minor may need not be listed).

Anyhow, i feel like an as$ for having posted in this thread, as I'm not an adcom member and i don't know how repeat charges will look if they do in fact perform a background check. So, i will stop posting.

BUT, i don't think somebody should NOT apply to med school because of offenses from teenage days.
 
Disclaimer: I didn't read the entire thread.


1) Most schools ask if you have ever been convicted. So does the criminal background check used by AMCAS. Dismissed and expunged charges do not come up on the cbc. So anything dismissed should not be a problem.

2) Since one of your charges was when you were a minor, I would look and see if you can get it expunged. Also, it MAY be possible that your record from before you were 18 was sealed. You should ask your lawyer about expungement or sealing your juvinile record.

I strongly believe that people deserve a second chance. I have been given one myself and will be attending medical school next year. If you have demonstrated maturity, as reflected in your academic record, LOR, and essays then I think you will have as good of a chance as anyone else. Your minor in possession and littering charges from 8? years ago seem like forgivable offenses.

Good luck.

Edit: You can (and should) run the same cbc that amcas uses on yourself. That way you will know what shows up. You will be offered this option when you fill out AMCAS.
 
learn what "being real" is. anyways, your group of friends have everything to do with it. also, there are many on this thread that don't know about the law, but i've known and seen a lot.

my buddy has had different charges as well but got them off. when he applies to jobs, the charges aren't listed -- only the one conviction.

you're still being honest.
 
I would say with all but two (littering and Paraphernalia, both fairly minor and petty so I doubt they would be an application killer) expunged, I think you are good to go. If anything, considering your academic performance, and the fact that those two happened while you were a minor will not significantly hamper your chances. Rock the MCAT, apply broadly, and, by the sound of it, you already have an interesting and memorable tale to tell.
 
Bacchus said:
If the charges are shown, even if dropped, you're going to face an uphill battle. Repeat offenses =/= maturity.
Click to expand...
Give him a break. He is 7 years later after his last offense. Most of us did some pretty stupid stuff when we were younger, although for me nothing close to drinking and driving; speeding (80 in a 65 zone), drinking as a minor, and littering for sure.
 
juliedi said:
OP, this is by no means a comprehensive answer, but I literally just finished filling out the info for a criminal background check requested by a med school I was accepted to. (I think all the AMCAS schools use the same service, but I could be wrong.) Anyway, they only asked if I was convicted or plead guilty to a crime. It explicitly said not to check yes if you had only been charged with a crime and not found guilty, or if charges were dropped. So I think in your case the only things you'd have against you are the littering and paraphernalia. I've heard of people getting into med schools with much worse, so I think you'll be ok.
Click to expand...

Juliedi, do you mind if I ask what application had that request?

Also I thought most applications asked if you had ever been arrested as opposed to convicted?
 
TriagePreMed said:
Give him a break. He is 7 years later after his last offense. Most of us did some pretty stupid stuff when we were younger, although for me nothing close to drinking and driving; speeding (80 in a 65 zone), drinking as a minor, and littering for sure.
Click to expand...
I'm not judging him. But DWI/DUI is more serious than some other charges that could be listed. I'm not a jury; I'm just letting him know what could potentially happen.
 
kami333 said:
Part of the problem is the zero tolerance alcohol laws that we have.

In most states the law treats a minor who had one beer and blew a 0.02 (under the limit for adults) the same as one who had a few more and blew a 0.1 (over the limit for adults), both end up with a DUI.
Click to expand...
Uh...who cares? Minors shouldn't be consuming alcohol at all.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Give him a break. He is 7 years later after his last offense.
Click to expand...

+1 Glad you've stopped littering!

--

See edit -- I'm really not qualified to be giving legal advice or recommendations!
 
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