Fat Dog

[Perrotfish]

Anyone know of any good diet advice for a severely obese pet? I took my pooch to the vet today and found out I am the proud guardian of a furry Rosie O'donald.

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[Catnapper]

Yes, I too am guilty of owning a plump pet--my 16lb. cat always earns me disapproving looks from vets (especially when they know of my interest in vet med!). It's difficult when you have overweight and underweight geriatric kids in the house, though!
I tend to worry more about getting the underweight kid to eat...

 

[Kara31191]

Baby carrots for treats work great!

And, I would slowly cut down the food.

How obese is the dog?

My Lab mix, Lucky, weighs 57 Ibs and is a little overweight. In his younger years he was extrememly obese and about 75-85 Ibs! This was shen he was DANGEROUSLY obese.

That's what happens when a dog has unlimited access to kibbles n' bits! =)

 

[david594]

You went to your vet today... so what did your vet actually recommend you do with your severly obese animal?

The vet would have gotten a history about what you feed your dog, how often, how much, what treats/table scraps, whatever. They would then make suggestions based on where things could be improved.

Depending on the age of the animal possibly suggested bloodwork to see what else is going on? Did they?

You could ask your vet about getting your dog on some of the new doggie diet meds. Not sure if Slentrol is on the market yet.

 

[FlyOnTheWall]

Decrease calories, increase exercise or both.

 

[RaptorRehaber]

I'd have your veterinarian do blood work to make sure he's just a typical fat american.

I'm not sure how popular Purina Overweight Management (OM) diets are around the US but the clinic I worked at for the past three years had so much success with the food. The cat I adopted two years ago was about three pounds too heavy and with the help of OM, she dropped the three pounds and is now a healthy 11 pound brat. If you find a provider, they have this nice computer program where you just plug in the animal's stats and it will give you the amount of food to feed to produce a steady, healthy weight loss. Then you can put them on the maintenance diet once the ideal goal is reached.

 

[Perrotfish]

The dog is currently a 58 lb female Keeshond. Female Keeshonds are supposed to be about 35 lbs.

Depending on the age of the animal possibly suggested bloodwork to see what else is going on? Did they

The vet did, awaiting the results.

The vet would have gotten a history about what you feed your dog, how often, how much, what treats/table scraps, whatever. They would then make suggestions based on where things could be improved.

The vet did not.

You could ask your vet about getting your dog on some of the new doggie diet meds. Not sure if Slentrol is on the market yet.

I would guess my pooch is too old for this sort of thing, but I'll ask

Baby carrots for treats work great!

Do dogs actually like baby carrots? Is it good for them?

 

[VetMed555]

My dachshund was underweight when I adopted him, but he made it up very quick and was pretty fat for a while. A vet I used to work with told me to mix green beans into his food. It helped a lot, because he wasn't constantly begging for food: volume and fiber filled him up. Later on, when he reached his optimum weight, I switched to ProPlan Healthy Weight food, it works great. Carrots are also a good idea: my dogs love them! They aren't bad for them: basically they get fiber and vitamins, nothing to cause GI problems, unless of course that's all you're feeding them.

 

[dvm'08]

Nobody here can accurately give you advice on this subject. You need to consult your veterinarian about what diet he/she recommends - as this recommendation will be based on his or her clinical findings once evaluating your dog.

There are many reasons your dog can be overweight - too high of a caloric intake (and lack of exercise); or some more severe metabolic or endocrine disorders (or a combination thereof).

Diets need to be tailored to individual patients, and doing so based on an internet suggestion may be dangerous to your pets health.

 

[FlyOnTheWall]

There are many reasons your dog can be overweight - too high of a caloric intake (and lack of exercise); or some more severe metabolic or endocrine disorders (or a combination thereof).

Examples?

 

[AuburnPreVet]

Seems like the vet should have discussed one of the prescription foods (ex. Purina OM)... and discussed how much you're feeding, etc. Assuming animal is healthy.

 

[ylrebmik]

I have the opposite problem... my dog doesn't gain weight...she's so skinny. She gets a ton of exercise and more than enough food... but Lizzy's vet said that she was healthy but she should add a little chub... she hasn't haha.

Can't the whole idea of being overweight for humans apply to animals? They can be slighly overweight and still be healthy?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Examples?

Well, there is good old hypothyroidism for one Also Cushing's, even polycystic ovary syndrome has been linked to unintentional weight gain.

They can be slighly overweight and still be healthy

You can be slightly overweight and metabolically sound. But it is never truly "healthy". If your dog stays on the skinny side - that's great!

With the exception of severly obese animals, prescriptions diets are IMO a waste of money. Ignore the dog's begging, cut down the food, and increase exercise. This would not work in a severly obese dog because the volume of food you would have to cut down could negatively affect amino acid intake and cause nutritional deficiencies. However, a simply chubby dog doesn't need a "diet food". It needs more walks

 

[RaptorRehaber]

I have the opposite problem... my dog doesn't gain weight...she's so skinny. She gets a ton of exercise and more than enough food... but Lizzy's vet said that she was healthy but she should add a little chub... she hasn't haha.

Can't the whole idea of being overweight for humans apply to animals? They can be slighly overweight and still be healthy?

It depends on what "being overweight" means. Being five pounds overweight for a human is a week in the life of most college kids, but five pounds in a cat can be a health risk.

I'd suggest thyroid testing for your veterinarian to rule any of those issues out.

 

[RaptorRehaber]

With the exception of severly obese animals, prescriptions diets are IMO a waste of money. Ignore the dog's begging, cut down the food, and increase exercise. This would not work in a severly obese dog because the volume of food you would have to cut down could negatively affect amino acid intake and cause nutritional deficiencies. However, a simply chubby dog doesn't need a "diet food". It needs more walks

I've found that's easier said than done. Most clients with overweight animals are also overweight meaning the chances of getting that dog for a walk around the block are slim to none. I've been working with overweight animals for about a year and a half and it's incredibly frustrating to have an oblivious owner refuse to accept that their dog is fat (he's just so round and cute!).

 

[FlyOnTheWall]

How about a diet history first.. find out if the calories going in are appropriate for the patient? Save the money on a blood test till after you've ruled out the most simple stuff?

 

[RaptorRehaber]

How about a diet history first.. find out if the calories going in are appropriate for the patient? Save the money on a blood test till after you've ruled out the most simple stuff?

Oh, most certainly. I guess I assumed that those issues were covered at typical check-ups. I was going beyond the obvious.

 

[FlyOnTheWall]

I guess I assumed that those issues were covered at typical check-ups. I was going beyond the obvious.

You raise a really good point with that statement. And you're going to get a short speach that all interns get when they run a bunch of blood tests on referral cases without completely familiarizing themselves with the case first:

Don't assume anything ... When you are the new primary on your own case you need to start from scratch, review everything that was done. Repeat the history and physical examination and then, a rational diagnostic plan.

 

[bakaduin]

With the exception of severly obese animals, prescriptions diets are IMO a waste of money. Ignore the dog's begging, cut down the food, and increase exercise. This would not work in a severly obese dog because the volume of food you would have to cut down could negatively affect amino acid intake and cause nutritional deficiencies. However, a simply chubby dog doesn't need a "diet food". It needs more walks

I disagree with this statement. I have seen time and time again foods like w/d and r/d work for overweight animals. Now this is certainly not a discussion on the ingredients or use of byproducts and fillers but as far as results they work. I adopted a 44 lb beagle and on r/d she is down to a healthy 27 lbs. Im not saying that cutting down on treats and increasing exercise wont work because it will but like they say there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Oh, I never said the diet foods don't work. They work fine. I said that it would be cheaper, and better for the animal, to simply increase exercise and cut down the amount of current food instead of put them on a high-filler ration and sit back to watch. Weight loss diets are honestly for owners who want a quick fix approach...they don't have to be "meanies" about their dog's food intake, or carefully measure portion sizes, they don't have to get up off their butts and walk the dog more...the w-l diets themselves are usually formulated with (as I try to put this politely) less-than-nutritious ingredients when compared to normal food.

I've found that's easier said than done

Exactly. It's easier for the client to just use a weight loss food than to actually try to get the dog to lose weight in a more healthy manner. I mean think about it...using a human example, is it healthier to eat a smaller quantity of regular, healthy food and exercise more , or eat all this sugar-free, fat-free, filler-to-only-make-your-tummy-feel-full stuff instead?

But that being said....I can feel the beginnings to a nutrition arguement coming on *gets out protective armor*

However, if you said this dog was "severly obese", this would be one of the few instances in which I actually would recommend a w-l diet over a simply food retriction, Why? Becasuse we need to get that excess weight off as rapidly as possible (due to the overwhelming number of health problems associated with it - we don't want it on any longer than necessary!). Such a drastic decrease in regular food to create fast weight loss could indeed cause nutritional imbalances in several vitamins/minerals, as well as essential amino acid intake. Using a diet food in this instance would negate any vitamin deficiencies that could arise from feeding too small of a sample of regular food.

For example: using totally fictitious and silly numbers

Chubby dog needs 100g of protein a day. 1 cup of food gives 130g protein. To lose X pounds, dog needs calorie and therefore food amount reduction of 20%. Dog still gets enough protein to make daily reqs, everything is ok. No cruddy w-l food needed.

Severly obese dog needs 100g of protein a day. 1 cup of food gives 130g protein. To lose Y pounds (more than X pounds) dog needs calorie and therefore food amount reduction of 40%. Now dog does NOT get the daily reqs, and a w-l food is needed to give both the calorie reduction and the upped level of vitamins and minerals. However, w-l foods are pretty far from healthy themselves.

If the dog is truly severly obese, the weight needs to come off NOW.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thank you all for all the advice. I'm going to try baby carrot treats, and otherwise my furball will be getting smaller amount of Purina One with no 'condiments', treats, or table scraps. If it works, great, if there's no change in a few weeks we'll invest in a diet food and get a specific diet plan from the vet. Also she will probably be getting an adjustment on her thyroid meds, which should help.

I've found that's easier said than done. Most clients with overweight animals are also overweight meaning the chances of getting that dog for a walk around the block are slim to none. I've been working with overweight animals for about a year and a half and it's incredibly frustrating to have an oblivious owner refuse to accept that their dog is fat (he's just so round and cute!).

This is unique to my situation, but one of the oddities of Keeshonds is that they just can't/won't walk very far. A couple of miles at a power walk will exhaust even a young and fit Keeshond. This makes it very difficult to exercise the pounds off. This is especially frustrating because I'm a long distance runner and would love to take my pup along on my 5 mile runs.

 

[david594]

I found it funny that you came her expecting advice, and never really provided any useful details on your dog. You never mentioned how old your dog is, what you feed her, what she gets for exercise and the fact that she has a preexisting thyroid condition.

This would be like going to the pre-allo board and posting "I have a rash on my leg, what should I do?".

It just doesn't make sense. Your dog has a thyroid condition and is on meds for it. One would assume that you are doing routine bloodwork to monitor her progress on the meds so you would at least be seeing your vet on a semi regular basis. And somehow you just suddenly found out your dog is extremely over weight? The vet didn't mention anything 6 months ago when you were there?

 

[Perrotfish]

I found it funny that you came her expecting advice, and never really provided any useful details on your dog. You never mentioned how old your dog is, what you feed her, what she gets for exercise and the fact that she has a preexisting thyroid condition.

This would be like going to the pre-allo board and posting "I have a rash on my leg, what should I do?".

It just doesn't make sense. Your dog has a thyroid condition and is on meds for it. One would assume that you are doing routine bloodwork to monitor her progress on the meds so you would at least be seeing your vet on a semi regular basis. And somehow you just suddenly found out your dog is extremely over weight? The vet didn't mention anything 6 months ago when you were there?

We do do routine blood work. If there's an adjustment it's going to be minor. I said before the dog was old, female, and Keeshond. 6 months ago the dog was a around 50 lbs. That's heavy, but not morbidly obese. Moreover that's about the weight she's been her entire life. Suddenly she's gained more than 10 lbs. As for the exercise, if you're interested, she gets 1-2 1 mile walks per day, which leaves her gasping for breath. Also if you're curious how we didn't notice the dog was fat, google an image for Keeshond. They're so friggin furry you can't tell what weight they are unless you either feel for their ribs or use a scale.

 

[david594]

We do do routine blood work. If there's an adjustment it's going to be minor. I said before the dog was old, female, and Keeshond.

We only got these details in response to other questions. Your a pre-med, you should know about the importance of taking a pertinent history on a patient.

6 months ago the dog was a around 50 lbs. That's heavy, but not morbidly obese. Moreover that's about the weight she's been her entire life. Suddenly she's gained more than 10 lbs.

Things that happen suddenly tend to be important details to mention.

Also if you're curious how we didn't notice the dog was fat, google an image for Keeshond. They're so friggin furry you can't tell what weight they are unless you either feel for their ribs or use a scale.

This is something I would 100% expect the vet to point out to you though.

I would wait for the bloodwork to come back and talk with your vet, as they actually know the case. When the call with the bloodwork results, you could probably sneak in a quick question about weight control diets and see what they recommend.

 

[dvm'08]

We only got these details in response to other questions. Your a pre-med, you should know about the importance of taking a pertinent history on a patient.


Things that happen suddenly tend to be important details to mention.
.

wow Dave... you need to chill out already. Who gives a rip what hx she gave - as a pre-vet (or vet student for that matter) we have no business giving medical advice to anybody, let alone via the internet.

 

[DaNNo]

Don't feel so bad... I have a 26 pound cat. Yep, 26 pounds. I'm not proud of it, either.

I followed the vet's advice and stopped free-feeding and switched him to S.D. r/d food (fat cat food). HE GAINED MORE WEIGHT! Recently a few of my clinic's techs went to a continuing education seminar put on by Hill's, where they learned that some cats don't metabolize r/d properly and actually gain weight on it - a surprise to all of us. So the vet had me switch to S.D. m/d (basically, Atkin's for kitties). Hoping I see some results with this.

But anyway, back to your story... Everyone seems to have given helpful hints. Giv them a try, and remember that the weight's not gonna drop overnight. It may take over a year for your dog to lose the weight he needs to.

Oh, and really try the baby carrots for treats. My dog goes NUTS for them, doesn't even eat his Milkbones anymore.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

but one of the oddities of Keeshonds is that they just can't/won't walk very far.

I will be sure to mention that to my friend who goes hiking with her Keeshond....I am not sure where you heard this information, but it's pretty....well....ridiculous.

The reason your dog is gasping after a mile is because of the weight, not the breed. After the weight is off, 1 mile a day of walking will not cut it in terms of exercise. Instead of two 1 mile walks right now, maybe try 3 or 4 0.75, or even 0.5 mile walks. Try to increase the distance but decrease the time of individual walks, to keep the calories burning but stress off the limbs and heart.

And as for the fur comment...you are *supposed* to feel for the ribs, not just look

 

[Perrotfish]

I will be sure to mention that to my friend who goes hiking with her Keeshond....I am not sure where you heard this information, but it's pretty....well....ridiculous.

This is in two seperate dog guides about the breed. You should be able to get further than a mile, but a keeshond isn't a dog you can run with, or even hike long distances with with.

 

[Catch91]

I have this problem with one of my cats. She's pushing 19 pounds. The biggest problem with her is that she has congestive heart failure and has to be on medications for it, and any amount of physical activity causes great stress on her heart. If we try to play with her, she tires out very easily and can't do much because of her condition.

Her condition makes it very hard for her to lose weight.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Just to clarify: I wasn't saying go run a marathon with it. Get a mountain cur or dalmation for that. But a Keeshond should be getting more than 1 or sometimes 2 miles a day. Any breed should be getting more than that, with the exception of maybe an elderly basset hound or chihuahua......

 

[banditalfi]

Just to clarify: I wasn't saying go run a marathon with it. Get a mountain cur or dalmation for that. But a Keeshond should be getting more than 1 or sometimes 2 miles a day. Any breed should be getting more than that, with the exception of maybe an elderly basset hound or chihuahua......

I was thinking... Alfred gets a walk around the block twice a day... then again... he's an old man and that really seems to tucker him out nowadays

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Alfred gets a walk around the block twice a day... then again... he's an old man and that really seems to tucker him out nowadays

Lucky! My young mountain cur needs a minimum of ~ 5 miles a day, just to keep sane. She gets more around 8 on weekends. Crazy squirrel dogs.

BTW Alfred is a great name for a dog

 

[banditalfi]

Lucky! My young mountain cur needs a minimum of ~ 5 miles a day, just to keep sane. She gets more around 8 on weekends. Crazy squirrel dogs.

BTW Alfred is a great name for a dog

Haha - thanks! He's just an old basset now, laying around and ignoring us unless there's food involved. He still gets excited for playdates, though - and then he sleeps like a rock (and snores!) after a little play session. He has also started to not care what he sleeps on - more specifically, if one of the cats is already on his bed, no problem, he'll just lay right on top.