Feb 2019 CBSE

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docnick95 said:
I have a lot of time off before the next Aug test date, though, so I will probably just take it again-have 7 weeks off right before the test.
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Yeah my schools longest break is 3 weeks in June. Studying for the CBSE is very difficult at our school because of this. Wish I had known this stuff before hand.
 
BYU4you said:
Yeah my schools longest break is 3 weeks in June. Studying for the CBSE is very difficult at our school because of this. Wish I had known this stuff before hand.
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I didn't know how long our breaks were either, I just got lucky, I guess.
 
I wonder how many people get in the 80s and above in each application cycle out of the ~500 people that apply.
 
docnick95 said:
I wonder how many people get in the 80s and above in each application cycle out of the ~500 people that apply.
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Yesterday my school's program director told me that if you get around 85 there is typically only about 10-15 other people with similar scores in the application pool. All of them hang out on SDN of course lol

But seriously, congrats everyone! The mere fact of sitting for this exam regardless of your score really shows commitment and perseverance. If you put in the time, the results will come. Guaranteed.
 
BYU4you said:
Yeah my schools longest break is 3 weeks in June. Studying for the CBSE is very difficult at our school because of this. Wish I had known this stuff before hand.
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How did you study for the test with these short breaks?
 
AN4TOMY said:
How did you study for the test with these short breaks?
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I studied every waking moment I could. I mean I studied HARD for 6 months to take my test in August and got a 62, then studied hard another 6 months for this one.

The bigger problem is that I also have a wife and a 2 year old so I had very little time especially with classes and clinic.

I studied during class, I studied during lunch, I commute an hour to school so I got two hours a day to listen to Boards/Beyond or Pathoma etc. then Id get home at 5-6pm eat dinner, play with my kid and then study from like 9pm-1am.

You just have to dedicate your life to it. It was super limiting not having dedicated time, but it is possible to do well. Replace my time with my kid to doing something like working out to keep yourself sane.
 
Any of y'all know what we roughly need score-wise to get an interview at NYU 6 year? I know the CBSE score isn't everything, but I'm willing to bet there is a rough range they look for.
Been looking at that program a lot, seems like you get training for a NE program.
 
1 shot, studied 2.5 months - scored 90

But in my opinion, if someone tells you they studied 2 months, 6 months, etc... It really doesn't matter. The distribution of study time needed varies greatly between individuals. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!
I used the typical recipe for the CBSE - UWorld (most significant source), Sketchy micro and pharm, pathoma, and First Aid (least useful). I truly believe first aid should not be read like a text book but more as a control find source. Its to time consuming too read page by page and honestly doesn't really teach much at all. If you have a photographic memory, then by all means read it. Otherwise, use it as you go when you want a few extra details. For instance, I used pathoma for my path, which eliminates so much of First Aid. I only used first Aid to supplement my embryology (w/ UWorld) and physiology (w/ UWorld and some school notes). No need to read drugs or micro from First Aid - use sketchy (waaaaay better). Just try to be as efficient and smart with your time as possible and utilize first aid correctly - otherwise its a real time cruncher with not enough solid yield.

So, I think UWorld + Sketchy + Pathoma is all you need to do very well, and just use First Aid for areas where these are lacking (physio, embryo, anatomy, psychology (probably the best source for that), and stats - though UWorld really does cover these topics even better than First Aid)

And take NBMEs - know where you are at, and do some to improve those deficiencies but don't get to hung up on it either. You don't know whats gonna be on that exam, so never throw all your eggs in one or a few baskets. Just try to give a little more time to the topics you need a little sprucing up on and then once you've improved balance the time again and cover as much high yield ground as possible.

If anyone has any question, please message me. I believe everyone here is capable of scoring very high with the right strategy and work ethic.
 
feralis isn't doing oral surgery

study plan = 9 months. I believe that content review is the most important part of the studying. So:
content review = 7 months
question banks/practice exams/review = 8 weeks

content review resources = first aid, boards and beyond, pathoma, sketchy micro
question bank = Uworld
practice exam = NBME 15

content review:
boards and beyond is the most important resource. What I did was I watched boards and beyond video and took notes directly on the pdf slide sets he gives you. Then after the video I went to first aid and added any info in first aid that wasn't in b&b or that topic (only small amount of info). If there was a matching pathoma video to the topic in b&b i would do following: watch b and b video, then watch pathoma video (add any pathoma info that wasn't in b&b to b&b slide set), then add extra info to first aid.
1st key point here is MEMORIZATION. At the core this exam is MEMORIZATION based. So what I did was compile all the info to the b&b slide sets then memorize the hell out of the slide set. The 2nd key point here is REVIEW. So what I would do is 3 weeks of learning new info then 1 week of review (obviously if you are reviewing a block you previously learned the review must be much faster). The way I memorized was that I made a long document of questions corresponding to b&b slide set (questions went in order of slide set), then would TYPE the entire slides in microsoft word to memorize then go over question list to review. Question lists would also allow me to review blocks I learned months ago very very fast. So yeah key point is figure out a way to memorize fast and to review fast. Review constantly.
Order to which I learned everything:
cell bio
genetics
basics of pharmacology
intro to pathology, chapter 1 pathoma, chapter 3 pathoma
biochemistry
immunology, chapter 2 pathoma
neurology
psychiatry
cardiology
pulmonology
hematology
renal
endocrinology
reproductive
musculoskeletal
demratology
GI
microbio (for this block I watched b&b + sketchy micro)
biostats/epi
behavioral science

final 8 weeks:
first 2 weeks was a review of every block using my question lists from each block
3rd week = do ~1150 uworld questions. Did it untimed and tutor mode. I looked at every answer explanation any new info I would write down on a separate doc. DID NOT LEARN THIS INFO AT THIS TIME
4th week = learn all the info I wrote down from uworld questions (memorize same way as during content review phase)
end of 4th week = NBME 15. Got CBSE equivalent score of 91 (made lots of super dumb mistakes new I would do better than this)
5th week = do another 1150 uworld questions (same approach as week 3)
6th week = learn new info from doing uworld questions + review the other info in this document from 1st 115o questions.
7th and 8th week = final epic review of every block of question lists from b&b slides + question lists from uworld info

uworld performance: 2300 questions done, 79.5% right, 69 seconds per question on average

random stuff:
CBSE question style very different from Uworld. Question stems tend to be much shorter and the questions aren't built to be tricky like Uworld is.
Hard questions on CBSE are of two types:
1) question about something you have never seen before (they purposefully put this in as "application" questions) --> the key to answering these questions is to look at other answer choices and use process of elimination based on what you know (so its super important to have wide and deep knowledge)
2) short and "broad" question stem with weird answer choices --> key here again is to have wide/deep knoweldge

I did uworld the way I did because when i did the 2nd 1150 uworld questions (5th week) I has been a decent amount of time since I did review of all b&b slide sets. So when I was doing these questions I was answering them more based on process of elimination than outright knowing the answer (this prepared me for the CBSE hard questions of stuff Ive never seen before) and built my skill of "process of elimination"

Feb exam had more of those type 1 hard cbse questions (super random Q) than I was expecting but I wasn't caught off guard. Went to war for those 5 hours. Probably had a nice curve due to this. This was the first time I took the CBSE so yeah
 
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If any young bucks are out there reading this thread getting intimidated by all these great scores, remember that you don't need this high of a score to match, or even to be a strong applicant.

Congrats to all the people with super high scores, well-deserved and must've taken a ton of hard work. However, you're more than just your score, and so is your application.

Everyone's curriculum is different, schedule is different, intelligence is different. As long as the work ethic is there, you'll break a 70. Which should get you some interviews in the context of a good overall application. Once you have an interview, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree it's all about showing you're a person that will be a pleasure to train for 4-6 years and treat patients well once you're done, rather than being able to whip out the biggest score and smack it on the table.

Congrats to everyone who is done, and good luck to everyone who isn't!
 
No smacking anything on the table - people wanna know how to achieve a competitive score, thats it. Their are study protocols that tend to work in getting higher scores. Everyone should realize that. I'm no smarter than the person who scores a 40, but I used a protocol and studied intensely and it paid off. I believe that similar if not better results are possible for many others struggling with this exam. Individuals much smarter than I have struggled with this exam more than I have, which further reinforces the idea that if you find the proper study protocol for yourself, scoring big on this exam is VERY doable. That why you post the score - to provide validity to the method.

That being said, while your statement is true, you should clarify that certain schools put more significance towards the CBSE than others. Therefore, depending on where you want to go, this may or may not be a huge factor.

Additionally, there is a difference between 6 years vs. 4 years w/ respect to CBSE scores, as the medical program is now involved.

But overall, I agree with you WSN, this is but 1 part of a whole applicant. There are many other important factors (equally or even more so) that should greatly be considered. As a good friend once told me who is in OMS, the score will get you the interview, after that it is your character, teachability and true desire to become an oral surgeon that will get you accepted.
 
doktorinprogres said:
Care to share your strategy for prepping/how much time you prepped for?
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My study strategy is a little bit weird, but I've been using it since undergrad and it hasn't failed me yet.
My dental school's curriculum does not include any medical school classes.
I started studying in September and the resources that I used are First aid, UWorld and Sketchy Micro only.
For the first 2.5 months I went over First Aid and Sketchy Micro.
I memorized First Aid to the point that I can recite the chapter with the help of a prompt only.
What I mean by prompt is for example: I would have a sheet of paper for Cardio system with all the prompts in that chapter (eg: Congenital heart disease, Vasculitides, HTN tx, Antiarrythmatics etc.) These are what I needed to sufficiently recite the chapter in my head.
Some FA chapters were impossible to recite or not worth my time to go to that extent (Biochem, micro, Behaviour etc.).
For Sketchy Micro, I did the same thing. I listened, wrote down the important stuff and memorized it.

I do this during lab or class time where I would have my sheet for the systems I want to review and just zone out and go through First Aid/Sketchy in my head. It usually takes a while to go through one chapter in my head like Cardio would take roughly 4-5 hours without the interruptions.
I probably went over each chapter like 10 times in my head since I would recite it non-stop throughout the week. Also, if I stopped reviewing it, I would start forgetting the tiniest detail after a while.

Then for the rest of my time, I was doing UWorld untimed, tutor mode with each systems separately while reviewing what I memorized. I went through 1700~ total questions and wrote down information that wasn't covered in First Aid and Sketchy.
This probably took most of my time since there were quite a bit of information not covered in First Aid or was covered but because I was just memorizing, I didn't have a good grasp of the concept. I had an average of 79% and each question took about 90s average (this probably doesn't matter much).

For the last two weeks before the test, I just recited the chapters and reviewed the list of information that I wrote down from UWorld that I had trouble with.

I didn't take any practice test.

Hope this helps. Good luck.
 
DomDom3790 said:
That being said, while your statement is true, you should clarify that certain schools put more significance towards the CBSE than others. Therefore, depending on where you want to go, this may or may not be a huge factor.

Additionally, there is a difference between 6 years vs. 4 years w/ respect to CBSE scores, as the medical program is now involved.
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What schools place that much significance on CBSE? Are there any places that require more than the usual 70+ score for their medical school?
 
DomDom3790 said:
No smacking anything on the table - people wanna know how to achieve a competitive score, thats it. Their are study protocols that tend to work in getting higher scores. Everyone should realize that. I'm no smarter than the person who scores a 40, but I used a protocol and studied intensely and it paid off. I believe that similar if not better results are possible for many others struggling with this exam. Individuals much smarter than I have struggled with this exam more than I have, which further reinforces the idea that if you find the proper study protocol for yourself, scoring big on this exam is VERY doable. That why you post the score - to provide validity to the method.

That being said, while your statement is true, you should clarify that certain schools put more significance towards the CBSE than others. Therefore, depending on where you want to go, this may or may not be a huge factor.

Additionally, there is a difference between 6 years vs. 4 years w/ respect to CBSE scores, as the medical program is now involved.

But overall, I agree with you WSN, this is but 1 part of a whole applicant. There are many other important factors (equally or even more so) that should greatly be considered. As a good friend once told me who is in OMS, the score will get you the interview, after that it is your character, teachability and true desire to become an oral surgeon that will get you accepted.
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Sorry if I sounded accusatory, wasn't meaning to be!

Congrats on your score and thank you for sharing a study strategy that clearly worked so that others can learn from what you did.

My intent was more to let people know that life doesn't begin and end with getting over an 80 on the CBSE, and that there are plenty of people who match to even the stereotypical "we care a lot about CBSE score" programs who don't have scores that high.

We are definitely on the same page
 
Everybody here says that they study all day during class... does this not have any impact on your class rank? I'd assume that studying during all your didactics would lead to you having to make up 8 hours of lecture work per day?
 
AN4TOMY said:
Everybody here says that they study all day during class... does this not have any impact on your class rank? I'd assume that studying during all your didactics would lead to you having to make up 8 hours of lecture work per day?
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I think most of the really high scores come from non ranking schools with med curricula
 
GimmeTheScalpel said:
I think most of the really high scores come from non ranking schools with med curricula
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I'm constantly being pulled back and forth between rank and CBSE. I don't think I can keep up with some of you guys scoring 85+ while maintaining rank. Is there any consideration of this when applying to programs?

Congrats on all the scores so far! Thanks for posting scores and tips!
 
Ivy.ch said:
I'm constantly being pulled back and forth between rank and CBSE. I don't think I can keep up with some of you guys scoring 85+ while maintaining rank. Is there any consideration of this when applying to programs?

Congrats on all the scores so far! Thanks for posting scores and tips!
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You need a 70+ to be a good candidate, not an 85+. I think everyone agrees that the interview is really important and programs need to like you for you to match there.
 
White_Sponge_Nevus said:
My intent was more to let people know that life doesn't begin and end with getting over an 80 on the CBSE, and that there are plenty of people who match to even the stereotypical "we care a lot about CBSE score" programs who don't have scores that high.
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Sorry to highjack the thread a little, and maybe it’s answered elsewhere, but what the “we care a lot about CBSE score” programs you mentioned?
 
GimmeTheScalpel said:
You need a 70+ to be a good candidate, not an 85+. I think everyone agrees that the interview is really important and programs need to like you for you to match there.
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I agree, I think people here are losing grasp on the fact that scores of 80+ are unusually high and that people match with scores in the upper 60s every year. Obviously everyone wants to score high, but the reality is that only ~20 people per application cycle will have scores in the 80+ range.
 
that guy next door said:
Sorry to highjack the thread a little, and maybe it’s answered elsewhere, but what the “we care a lot about CBSE score” programs you mentioned?
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If you look at this excel spreadsheet that I found on SDN, it seems like not very many people get in the 80s. Granted, they stopped reporting the exact distribution of scores after the Feb 2014 test date, and scores may have gone up slightly since the Feb 2014 test date, but I think its safe to say that yeah, probably 20ish people get a score of 80+ per application cycle.

I would like to give credit where its due for this document, but I downloaded it a while ago and don't remember who made it.
 

Attachments

Ahhh that is made by Bereno I believe.
 
docnick95 said:
If you look at this excel spreadsheet that I found on SDN, it seems like not very many people get in the 80s. Granted, they stopped reporting the exact distribution of scores after the Feb 2014 test date, and scores may have gone up slightly since the Feb 2014 test date, but I think its safe to say that yeah, probably 20ish people get a score of 80+ per application cycle.

I would like to give credit where its due for this document, but I downloaded it a while ago and don't remember who made it.
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This would have more meaning if applicants were taking the exam once and only once. But if people scoring a 75+ are not retaking. Then these data points do not include those that were happy with their score from a previous take.
 
UCSF2021:) said:
This would have more meaning if applicants were taking the exam once and only once. But if people scoring a 75+ are not retaking. Then these data points do not include those that were happy with their score from a previous take.
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Right, so multiply the number of scores 80 and above by say a factor of 4 or so, to account for the other test dates, since there are 2 test dates per year, and usually D2s and D3s take it. In other words, there are about 4 test dates that probably come into play for a given residency application cycle.

And like you said, most people who score 80+ probably do not retake, so this methodology is likely pretty accurate for counting the number of scores 80+.
 
docnick95 said:
Right, so multiply the number of scores 80 and above by say a factor of 4 or so, to account for the other test dates, since there are 2 test dates per year, and usually D2s and D3s take it. In other words, there are about 4 test dates that probably come into play for a given residency application cycle.

And like you said, most people who score 80+ probably do not retake, so this methodology is likely pretty accurate for counting the number of scores 80+.
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Unfortunately this does not give you the amount of test takers taking the exam that given day. I generally try to think the CBSE as a bit a bell curve with half of the applicants being above 70 and half below. Some outliers above 80 and some outliers in the low 60's...but generally most are in the 65-75 range.
 
UCSF2021:) said:
Unfortunately this does not give you the amount of test takers taking the exam that given day. I generally try to think the CBSE as a bit a bell curve with half of the applicants being above 70 and half below. Some outliers above 80 and some outliers in the low 60's...but generally most are in the 65-75 range.
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The spreadsheet does give you the amount of people that took exams on those dates. That data is there up until Aug 2014 date.
 
can anyone comment if we will ever have to listen/recognize heart murmurs on the CBSE? or is that only for step 1
 
UCSF2021:) said:
Unfortunately this does not give you the amount of test takers taking the exam that given day. I generally try to think the CBSE as a bit a bell curve with half of the applicants being above 70 and half below. Some outliers above 80 and some outliers in the low 60's...but generally most are in the 65-75 range.
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Isn’t the average historically around a 55? If that’s the case, you’re vastly skewing your bell curve in a very “SDN-friendly” manner.
 
that guy next door said:
Isn’t the average historically around a 55? If that’s the case, you’re vastly skewing your bell curve in a very “SDN-friendly” manner.
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He said applicants, I think alot of people below 60 arent going to drop thousands of dollars to apply knowing the chances are slim.
 
that guy next door said:
Sorry to highjack the thread a little, and maybe it’s answered elsewhere, but what the “we care a lot about CBSE score” programs you mentioned?
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Its anecdotal information. I hear it from residents at certain schools via comments from their faculty members. But their is no explicit statements from schools, as far as I know, in regards to setting a higher set point for CBSE scores relative to other programs. However, if you are applying to a 6 year program, it seems sensible to assume the schools would like to see a higher CBSE score as its their only way of predicting (not sure how accurately though) how you may represent their numbers on the USMLE.
My opinion (which is whatever - you know the saying about opinions, there like a-holes, everyone has one) - there is some mean threshold amongst a majority of schools with respect to CBSE scores "qualifying" for an interview on the basis of that score. Some schools put more emphasis, some less, but regardless of the CBSE score, no matter how solid, it will not get your further than the interview.
I look at it like this - bad CBSE - lower chance of interview = lower chance of acceptance on the basis of that alone
Respectable CBSE (average or above) - better chance of an interview - this coupled with you being a decent human being, multiple externships or internship, etc... = better shot at acceptance than super high CBSE with few extracurriculars.
So best bet may be to call schools you're interested in and ask what their average CBSE scores are. Then aim for that (rather than worrying about hitting the highest score possible) and bulk up the CV.
 
Just got more anecdotal info from a good source - someone very high up on the AAOMS latter.
4 yr school - magical # appears to be 58
6 yr school - magical # = passing score on the USMLE (which I believe to be 68 equivalent right now)

I have no idea why 58 is used by 4 year schools, again, this is per AAOMS source.

Hope this helps
 
DomDom3790 said:
Just got more anecdotal info from a good source - someone very high up on the AAOMS latter.
4 yr school - magical # appears to be 58
6 yr school - magical # = passing score on the USMLE (which I believe to be 68 equivalent right now)

I have no idea why 58 is used by 4 year schools, again, this is per AAOMS source.

Hope this helps
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Speak of the devil, my classmate met someone with that exact score who got into a 4 year program. Said he had 7-8 interviews as well.
 
sevensamurai said:
can anyone comment if we will ever have to listen/recognize heart murmurs on the CBSE? or is that only for step 1
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No audio to play but you do have to recognize them on a stem (i.e holosystolic murmur on left lower sternal border) to be able to answer the question. Another example can be “continuous harsh systolic/diastolic murmur that radiates to the back” and then ask you which aortic arch the structure derives from. Again, you have to know this to answer the question.
 
From John London’s Email:

If you sat for the NBME exam this past February and did not receive the notice that the scores are available, please use this link: https://apps.nbme.org/eddiexaminee/Login.do?client=mss

Scores were available on Friday March 1st

The average score for this administration was 55 with a standard deviation of 13.5.
 
Now that the stats are out, we can figure out the "truth" about how people scored..

Using the average and stdev values, we know that 84.1% of scores were <= 68.5, and only 3.2% of scores were an 80 or greater.

Not sure how many people take this thing, but lets just say 300 people took it in Feb (around 416 applied for OMFS last year FYI). That would mean 9-10 people scored an 80 or greater.

There were 236 OMFS seats available in 2019.

Moral of story: you don't need an 80 (or even 70) to match.
 
Abcdefghijklmnp said:
This assumes a perfect bell curve distribution, which is an incorrect assumption
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Dude its all an assumption. I doubt you work for AAOMS or NBME, so you saying its not a bell curve is also an assumption. There might be a slight bimodal distribution because of the rescheduling issues, but do you really think dozens of people scored in the 80s?
 
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