Federal Hiring Freeze

[Ollie123]

Know we have quite a few folks here in federal employment (primarily VA but maybe other entities too?). Assume you have all seen the executive order hiring freeze: Hiring Freeze – The White House

I have a fellow who recently submitted their resignation to start a federal job mid-February (offer signed and everything cleared) that just had their offer rescinded because of this. If anyone on the federal side has any insights into how things are being handled it would be appreciated if you can share (here or message me privately). Not surprisingly, there seem many open questions left due to all the loopholes (" this memorandum does not prohibit making reallocations to meet the highest priority needs, maintain essential services, and protect national security, homeland security, and public safety"....is veteran health a priority need or matter of public safety?). I don't expect anyone to actually know definitively what is happening, but word-on-the-street from folks on the federal side would be helpful here. Is HR saying "We're going to be exempt, just give us a couple weeks to sort it out"? Are you planning for all hiring to stop for the foreseeable future?

We're going to do our best to figure out a way to undo the resignation and keep the person in at least the short-mid term, but any inside knowledge would help with planning.

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[WisNeuro]

Yeesh, I'm really sorry for you all. I have my issues with working at the VA and similar entities, but I still maintained they were, on average, the best training grounds for psychologists out there. Can't be a good feeling to be applying for internships and postdocs right now. Hoping for the best.

 

[cara susanna]

I was told if the start date is before Feb 8, they're okay. if not, they're hosed.

Honestly, the mood here is... awful. I've never seen it this dark.

 

[WisNeuro]

I was told if the start date is before Feb 8, they're okay. if not, they're hosed.

Honestly, the mood here is... awful. I've never seen it this dark.

Feb 8th as in like 2 and a half weeks from now?

 

[cara susanna]

Feb 8th as in like 2 and a half weeks from now?

Yup. That's our local guidance, at least. I'm not sure if all VAs are following it.

 

[Sanman]

I was told if the start date is before Feb 8, they're okay. if not, they're hosed.

Honestly, the mood here is... awful. I've never seen it this dark.

Needed to have a signed FJO before 1/20/25 @ 11:59am and start date before 2/9 is what I?hears. But some folks that fit that were also rescinded.

Bottom line @Ollie123 is a blanket hiring freeze until May. Positions may be reposted if an exemption is granted. However, I believe that they may repost and do a new search. This is not definitive, just what I am hearing from some HR folks.

 

[psych.meout]

I wonder if this has any bearing on VA internships and post docs.

 

[cara susanna]

We aren't sure, because training positions are funded separately--but that may not matter. TDs are freaking out in general.

 

[psych.meout]

That really sucks. What a terrible situation, especially at this time of year.

 

[Sanman]

That really sucks. What a terrible situation, especially at this time of year.

Welcome to Trumpland. It all sucks.

 

[R. Matey]

My condolences also. What a tough time for federal psychologists and their trainees.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Welcome to Trumpland. It all sucks.

If only we stopped the millions of woke drag queens and agnostic teachers who read banned books to kids while eating the cats and eating the dogs while flooding into this country…

The VA is a great training option for psychologists, but good luck getting funding under this administration.

 

[futureapppsy2]

One thing I haven’t heard mentioned is that some of the positions being affected by this hiring freeze were also affected by the soft VHA hiring freeze last year. I had a VHA TJO that was pulled last year due to that freeze, the position was just posted again last month, and now that posting is cancelled again. The HM is trying to get it exempted through HR, but they could very well just approve no exemptions—no one knows. It just blows for everyone.

 

[PsychGirlN]

Know we have quite a few folks here in federal employment (primarily VA but maybe other entities too?). Assume you have all seen the executive order hiring freeze: Hiring Freeze – The White House

I have a fellow who recently submitted their resignation to start a federal job mid-February (offer signed and everything cleared) that just had their offer rescinded because of this. If anyone on the federal side has any insights into how things are being handled it would be appreciated if you can share (here or message me privately). Not surprisingly, there seem many open questions left due to all the loopholes (" this memorandum does not prohibit making reallocations to meet the highest priority needs, maintain essential services, and protect national security, homeland security, and public safety"....is veteran health a priority need or matter of public safety?). I don't expect anyone to actually know definitively what is happening, but word-on-the-street from folks on the federal side would be helpful here. Is HR saying "We're going to be exempt, just give us a couple weeks to sort it out"? Are you planning for all hiring to stop for the foreseeable future?

We're going to do our best to figure out a way to undo the resignation and keep the person in at least the short-mid term, but any inside knowledge would help with planning.

APPIC sent out an email about this today. Did you guys see it? “
As many of you are aware, a U.S. federal hiring freeze was announced earlier this week. Whether or not psychology internship and postdoctoral positions with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and the Bureau of Prisons (BoP) will be affected is, for the moment, not clear.


We recognize that this announcement comes at a particularly inconvenient time, and raises significant concerns for many of you during an already-anxious period. APPIC is closely monitoring this situation and is communicating with the VA and other federal agencies in order to gather information and to develop specific guidance and instructions. We will continue to post announcements to APPIC's e-mail lists as we are able to get clarification.


Amy


Amy Silberbogen, PhD

 

[Ollie123]

Said individual had a signed offer with a start date of 2/10, so literally two days after the cutoff.

Also hot off the presses....some study sections were literally shut down mid-meeting today, there are reports of several deans being informed that specific grants are being frozen and must pause and colleagues at NIH-proper are expecting massive cuts to budgets & staff.

Sounds like they're just hitting "pause" on everything, which isn't entirely unexpected honestly. Its going to be a hot mess for a while though...

 

[WisNeuro]

Rank list deadline of Feb 7th, correct? Hopefully there is guidance prior to that.

 

[R. Matey]

Also hot off the presses....some study sections were literally shut down mid-meeting today, there are reports of several deans being informed that specific grants are being frozen and must pause and colleagues at NIH-proper are expecting massive cuts to budgets & staff.

DEI-related?

 

[WisNeuro]

DEI-related?

Based on the actions signed as well as previously discussed issues, I would assume the funding clawbacks will encompass far more than just DEI-related stuff. We're about to enter an unparalleled era for science denialism.

 

[psycho1391]

I wonder if this has any bearing on VA internships and post docs.

I mean this is how a potential mental health crisis happens. VA is largest trainer of psychologists.

 

[R. Matey]

Based on the actions signed as well as previously discussed issues, I would assume the funding clawbacks will encompass far more than just DEI-related stuff. We're about to enter an unparalleled era for science denialism.

Likely so. I was curious if DEI/special population research was being targeted first, which will likely be followed by other scientific research unliked by the extreme right (e.g., climate science, vaccine research).

 

[Sanman]

If only we stopped the millions of woke drag queens and agnostic teachers who read banned books to kids while eating the cats and eating the dogs from flooding into this country…

The VA is a great training option for psychologists, but good luck getting funding under this administration.

Can you introduce to a drag queen that is not woke? Now, that would impress me.

 

[WisNeuro]

Can you introduce to a drag queen that is not woke? Now, that would impress me.

The Loneliest Drag Queen in America

Lady MAGA wanted to bring “sparkle” to the conservative movement, but the growing anti-trans movement has stymied those plans.

www.rollingstone.com

 

[Sanman]

The Loneliest Drag Queen in America

Lady MAGA wanted to bring “sparkle” to the conservative movement, but the growing anti-trans movement has stymied those plans.

www.rollingstone.com

Nothing like a right wing drag queen at a Republican convention held at the Gaylord hotel.

You win the internet today, my friend.

 

[MCParent]

Can you introduce to a drag queen that is not woke? Now, that would impress me.

Oh honey. The number is not zero.

 

[cara susanna]

Said individual had a signed offer with a start date of 2/10, so literally two days after the cutoff.

Also hot off the presses....some study sections were literally shut down mid-meeting today, there are reports of several deans being informed that specific grants are being frozen and must pause and colleagues at NIH-proper are expecting massive cuts to budgets & staff.

Sounds like they're just hitting "pause" on everything, which isn't entirely unexpected honestly. Its going to be a hot mess for a while though...

I heard about the NIH stuff. Chilling.

 

[Sanman]

Oh honey. The number is not zero.

I didn't think it was. Though to me, as a therapist, the non-woke drag queens are the interesting ones. Always curious to hear how they came to those stances.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

Said individual had a signed offer with a start date of 2/10, so literally two days after the cutoff.

Also hot off the presses....some study sections were literally shut down mid-meeting today, there are reports of several deans being informed that specific grants are being frozen and must pause and colleagues at NIH-proper are expecting massive cuts to budgets & staff.

Sounds like they're just hitting "pause" on everything, which isn't entirely unexpected honestly. Its going to be a hot mess for a while though...

I heard that internship/postdoc programs were able to proceed with selection/hiring during the 2017 freeze. However, it appears to be ambiguous now and may impact any paid internship/postdoc/training program. I’m guessing practicing placements may be ok because they aren’t paid?

 

[cara susanna]

We're having an employee town hall meeting to discuss all of this stuff today. They even are cancelling meetings so people can attend (or at least, mine was cancelled)

 

[WisNeuro]

We're having an employee town hall meeting to discuss all of this stuff today. They even are cancelling meetings so people can attend (or at least, mine was cancelled)

 

[jdawg2017]

What a total cluster****…. I am glad to primarily be moving toward a clinical position at a non-gov AMC after postdoc ends but feel awful for all of my colleagues and friends affected by this.

Not really sure what to say, but I guess we should expect a circus if we elect a clown…

 

[flerfmcgerf]

Exemptions, including psychologists, were approved https://news.va.gov/press-room/va-declares-hiring-freeze-exemptions/

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm sure the Trump Administration will be reasonable. Just look at how they have handled *check notes*....immigration, no. "Muslim Ban" is back...hmm. Oh I know, they were totally reasonable when it came to non-political appointments/civil service positions....nope. Don't worry VA...the Administration TOTALLY has your back. Unfortunately, your exec director's response is actually normal and probably expected at this point.

At least we won't get as many emails trying to recruit me/us to fill neuropsych/psych positions at the VA/military/etc.

 

[summerbabe]

Exemptions, including psychologists, were approved https://news.va.gov/press-room/va-declares-hiring-freeze-exemptions/

Apparently my service is working on resending all offers that were revoked earlier this week

 

[Sanman]

Our executive director just started crying during the meeting. Not a great sign, lol

I saw a good bit of that the last time Trump was president. Here we go again...

 

[WisNeuro]

At this point, for those with rescinded and now resent job offers, how many will see the rat****ery and decide to pursue other options?

 

[Sanman]

At this point, for those with rescinded and now resent job offers, how many will see the rat****ery and decide to pursue other options?

Right this second? Very few. However, I anticipate a lot of them actively job hunting. Especially with the threat of probationary employees being fired.

 

[MCParent]

Apparently my service is working on resending all offers that were revoked earlier this week

How efficient.

 

[jdawg2017]

How efficient.

DOGE with all that winning!!!

 

[Sanman]

DOGE with all that winning!!!

They were efficient enough to cut their management team by 50%. Ramaswamy is history.

 

[WisNeuro]

They were efficient enough to cut their management team by 50%. Ramaswamy is history.

They mandates that every federal agency in the executive branch must create a DOGE team that reports back to the mothership monthly. Plenty more room for party loyalists in management there.

 

[psycho1391]

Looks Like They Made An Exemption for VA

 

[tr]

Looks Like They Made An Exemption for VA

I knew it. Military affiliated is the only way for the next four years. DoD funding opps here we come.

 

[mind_over_matter277]

What about internship and postdoc training programs?

 

[futureapppsy2]

So, apparently the federal government is freezing all grants and loans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/27/white-house-pauses-federal-grants/

This seems like it could legitimately cripple state governments, non-profits, universities, and many federal agencies, among others.

 

[The Cinnabon]

So, apparently the federal government is freezing all grants and loans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/27/white-house-pauses-federal-grants/

This seems like it could legitimately cripple state governments, non-profits, universities, and many federal agencies, among others.

We all need to make sacrifices to lower the price of eggs

 

[mind_over_matter277]

So, apparently the federal government is freezing all grants and loans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/27/white-house-pauses-federal-grants/

This seems like it could legitimately cripple state governments, non-profits, universities, and many federal agencies, among others.

Wait aren’t VA psychology training programs supported by federal grants? Like in terms of stipends? What about scholarships/tuition support in universities? I’m so confused right now. Is it normal to be a little nervous.

 

[Ollie123]

So, apparently the federal government is freezing all grants and loans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/27/white-house-pauses-federal-grants/

This seems like it could legitimately cripple state governments, non-profits, universities, and many federal agencies, among others.

I'm reasonably confident these will be (very) temporary. Part of the strategy is just to pump out so much crazy all at once the opposition can't focus on any one thing and a lot sneaks through. As much as they may condemn universities as "liberal wokeness" its tough to claim they are putting America first while forcing every medical school in the US to close. NIH as a whole isn't going to go anywhere, but this is going to create a ripple effect that will create a giant series of frustrations for months/years.

The shift will unquestionably focus. I'd be very nervous about a MOSAIC grant, diversity-focused training grant, etc. right now. I would even be nervous about my post-docs diversity supplement getting yanked, but there's so little time/dollars left it would be pretty inconsequential at this point.

Is it normal to be a little nervous.

At any time? Yes. Right now? Especially yes.

 

[quickpsych]

So, apparently the federal government is freezing all grants and loans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/27/white-house-pauses-federal-grants/

This seems like it could legitimately cripple state governments, non-profits, universities, and many federal agencies, among others.

It will.

But it also seems it would be illegal for the president to do this to existing funds already appropriated by Congress. So the question then becomes , will the GOP do anything about it?

 

[futureapppsy2]

I'm reasonably confident these will be (very) temporary. Part of the strategy is just to pump out so much crazy all at once the opposition can't focus on any one thing and a lot sneaks through. As much as they may condemn universities as "liberal wokeness" its tough to claim they are putting America first while forcing every medical school in the US to close. NIH as a whole isn't going to go anywhere, but this is going to create a ripple effect that will create a giant series of frustrations for months/years.

The shift will unquestionably focus. I'd be very nervous about a MOSAIC grant, diversity-focused training grant, etc. right now. I would even be nervous about my post-docs diversity supplement getting yanked, but there's so little time/dollars left it would be pretty inconsequential at this point.



At any time? Yes. Right now? Especially yes.

I think it’ll be more intense than what you are thinking, given that VA police are removing pictures of rainbows. All health services research, because it mentions access, will likely be screwed. Possibly any grants that discuss so much as examining demographic differences as well, etc. And I doubt EBP will be a priority.

 

[Ollie123]

Oh....its gonna be intense/bad. I just think the long-term intense/bad will be concentrated in select areas. The rest of us will have short-mid-term intense/bad that will eventually evolve into a couple years of frustration.

There is absolutely no way to do this sort of review at scale, so even for folks in areas entirely unrelated there are 100% going to be nonsensical things in the crossfire.

Just had my first meeting strategizing how we respond if someone asks about DEI components in our new R01 to try and avoid creating any appearance we might care about impoverished people. Fun times.🙄