Federal loan repayment/finance (Resident)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

h0td0g

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
11
Reaction score
2
As the payment will be starting soon from October 1st, I wanted to ask what you guys are planning to do.. refinance? Not pay during residency? Pay minimum without refinancing? I've been following white coat investor lately as well and I just wanted to see what everyone's planning, especially because I'm in dilemma.
I'm a 1st year resident making ~65K/yr. I have s/o who's willing to help with all other costs and said to use my all residents salary for loan repayment. I'm not sure if I should refinance (interest rate's crazy!) or look for public service forgiveness in the future. Any recommendations based on your experience or in general?
Thanks in advance

Members don't see this ad.
 
As the payment will be starting soon from October 1st, I wanted to ask what you guys are planning to do.. refinance? Not pay during residency? Pay minimum without refinancing? I've been following white coat investor lately as well and I just wanted to see what everyone's planning, especially because I'm in dilemma.
I'm a 1st year resident making ~65K/yr. I have s/o who's willing to help with all other costs and said to use my all residents salary for loan repayment. I'm not sure if I should refinance (interest rate's crazy!) or look for public service forgiveness in the future. Any recommendations based on your experience or in general?
Thanks in advance
Are you at a facility that qualifies for pslf? If so then stay enrolled. It's very hard to find a job that qualifies upon getting out so if you can already knock out 3 years then it's worth staying in it. If not there's much more risk involved. I have multiple friends that are a few months out from having 250k Plus in loans forgiven. Great example of better to be lucky than good. They ended up going to programs that qualified in residency.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I heard with Biden's new plan you can do a super low monthly payment and then it's forgiven in like 20 years? not sure if the math makes it worth it.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I heard with Biden's new plan you can do a super low monthly payment and then it's forgiven in like 20 years? not sure if the math makes it worth it.
I believe it was 25 years for paye/repaye or something like that, not sure what we have now. You pay 10% your income now for 25 years and they will forgive remaining balances. But remember the tax bomb at the end! that's huge too.
 
I believe it was 25 years for paye/repaye or something like that, not sure what we have now. You pay 10% your income now for 25 years and they will forgive remaining balances. But remember the tax bomb at the end! that's huge too.
Only a tax bomb in 4-5 states currently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Are you at a facility that qualifies for pslf? If so then stay enrolled. It's very hard to find a job that qualifies upon getting out so if you can already knock out 3 years then it's worth staying in it. If not there's much more risk involved. I have multiple friends that are a few months out from having 250k Plus in loans forgiven. Great example of better to be lucky than good. They ended up going to programs that qualified in residency.
No, my program doesn't qualify for pslf, that's why I was thinking maybe just refinance and start paying it now.

I saw Biden's new plan, but only thing about that is.. do I really wanna be paying my loans for next 25 years? ...
 
No, my program doesn't qualify for pslf, that's why I was thinking maybe just refinance and start paying it now.

I saw Biden's new plan, but only thing about that is.. do I really wanna be paying my loans for next 25 years? ...
Just focus on making as much $$ as you reasonably can and getting a job you like. Yes, being a DPM, that's sometimes a Tom Cruise job with the IMF.

As mentioned, PSLF jobs are pretty hard to find for DPMs (but easy for MDs). Also, MDs are generally not wise to take those PSLF-eligible jobs since they are leaving more $ on the table than will be forgiven by taking PSLF versus PP or private sector (again, converse is true for DPMs). So, if you have 3yrs of residency counting for PSLF and you can get a PSLF job, that's a decent plan... for podiatry.

Think of it this way, though: you are just beginning your career. Bringing in more $ via hospital job or PP owner or ABFAS cert for better options or whatever is the most important thing. Do that asap. That's the main goal: increase income and the ROI on that debt. Don't base your job or your repay plan on your student debt... that's a scarcity mentality. Just make a good income asap, and the rest falls into place (abundance mentality).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
First of all great you are reading WCI. Make sure doing Roth contribution and then any 401k up to residency match if that is a thing. Then sure dump all the rest into the loans. Use the WCI links to get better rates. Then switch every 6 months to a year and keep getting new bonuses lol I think I have had maybe 6 or 7 different servicers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
No, my program doesn't qualify for pslf, that's why I was thinking maybe just refinance and start paying it now.

I saw Biden's new plan, but only thing about that is.. do I really wanna be paying my loans for next 25 years? ...
-You are unlikely to find rates lower than your current rates. The interest rate environment has deteriorated for borrowers. Conversely holding cash right now in a money market fund is paying 5%. If you've never explored this before - you presumably noticed that the rates on your student loans were different each year. Essentially the rate you borrowed at was tied to the 10 year Treasury + a fixed percentage. As the rate fluctuated the interest rate on your note varied. We historically have been in a period of low interest rates ie. you could buy a house for 3%, but now the average rate for buying a house is 7% or more. Anything borrowed is more expensive right now.
-Most people will have to take an "income based plan" because they are not capable of covering the payment on a 10, 15, 20 year payment plan structure. Using a mortgage calculator as an example - the payment on a $350K loan at 6.8% over 20 years is $2700 a month. Most people don't have that.
-Do you want to pay on a loan forever - probably not. Supposedly some of the forgiveness plans are amazing if you can pull it off, but they do require what essentially feels like a forever commitment.
-I would simply tell you - there are many right ways to do this and only time will tell which was best.
-Do not forbear. Forbearance is the path to misery.
-Commit to an IBR plan. Begin both saving money and paying down your loan, within reason.
-I don't know your life story, if you come from money etc, but I would tell you - save up ...$10-25K. Never be in a situation where you have to tackle a debt you aren't prepared for.
-Then attack debt and savings in a manner that makes mathmetical sense. A lot of people have been well served through time by investing in the stock market even if they still had student loan debt. That sort of thing may not apply if you have a 10% student loan or something ridiculous like that.
 
Also now that I think about it many programs do not allow current students as you have low income. When you are making non PP associate attending money then they are more than happy to refinance your loans.
 
What are your thoughts on the new Biden plan waiving interest as long as you enroll into the SAVE plan and pay the monthly? Is there a catch I’m missing here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Honestly 90% of grads who end up with 100k-140k jobs would be best served by doing the cheapest repayment option (I think it’s pay as you earn) which is 10% for 25 years. You won’t be able to make 3k monthly payments on that income. I wouldn’t recommend refinancing given that (while it is a slim hope) who knows what the government will do to improve student loan repayments over the next 20 years as things continue to get worse
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
White Coat Investor is more written toward higher earning medical specialties than pods. That’s why they are gung ho about throwing as much money at loans as quickly as possible. When you’re grossing 500k as an ortho, it’s easy to throw 100k a year at your loans and pay it off in 3-4 years. When you’re a pod and you’re making 100-150k straight out of residency, that’s not an option.

Check out Student Loan Planner. Their loan repayment calculator is very thorough and very good at telling you which IDR plan is best for you in the long run. If you’re going to use PAYE, you’ll have to sign up ASAP as they are nixing that plan in favor of the new Biden SAVE IDR plan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Yeah, you see all these things like hey this doc paid off $385,000 in loans in 31 months with a spouse and four kids by living like a resident.... And it's like okay tell me you're not a podiatrist without telling me you're not a podiatrist.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4 users
The basic assumption with any financial advice given on WCI is that you’re paid like a doctor, and not a Panda Express store manager.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The basic assumption with any financial advice given on WCI is that you’re paid like a doctor, and not a Panda Express store manager.
Yeah, this can't be overstated. ^^

WCI is decent for some stuff (backdoor Roth, basic EF, etc), but he basically assumes $300k income and ability to throw $ at all of the wacky insurances and REITs and Student Loan Refi and mortgage stuff that sponsors the website.
 
To directly answer the original question. Sign up for SAVE plan, this is the best financial approach.

You won’t owe more than 150$/month and they erase your interest so your loan will never go up. It is essentially equivalent to covid pause except you have to make a small payment.

This is true for every single resident assuming no spouse, additional income and filing separately. Post residency…. Good luck.

Don’t refinance to private loans in residency. That is stupid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Yeah, this can't be overstated. ^^

WCI is decent for some stuff (backdoor Roth, basic EF, etc), but he basically assumes $300k income and ability to throw $ at all of the wacky insurances and REITs and Student Loan Refi and mortgage stuff that sponsors the website.

It’s the same problem with the Physician on FIRE stuff.

“I’m an anesthesiologist and I was able to retire at 45. Here’s how…” (spoiler alert: it was by making $600k per year upon completion of residency)

Or the Real Estate MD folks.

“We are a dual Physician income family, see how we grew our real estate portfolio by $3 million in 5 short years…” (spoiler alert: they had $100k of leftover money every year to buy rental properties with).

A majority of DPMs will not have the income out of residency to do anything like this. Some will. But not most.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
White Coat Investor is more written toward higher earning medical specialties than pods. That’s why they are gung ho about throwing as much money at loans as quickly as possible. When you’re grossing 500k as an ortho, it’s easy to throw 100k a year at your loans and pay it off in 3-4 years. When you’re a pod and you’re making 100-150k straight out of residency, that’s not an option.

Check out Student Loan Planner. Their loan repayment calculator is very thorough and very good at telling you which IDR plan is best for you in the long run. If you’re going to use PAYE, you’ll have to sign up ASAP as they are nixing that plan in favor of the new Biden SAVE IDR plan.
To directly answer the original question. Sign up for SAVE plan, this is the best financial approach.

You won’t owe more than 150$/month and they erase your interest so your loan will never go up. It is essentially equivalent to covid pause except you have to make a small payment.

This is true for every single resident assuming no spouse, additional income and filing separately. Post residency…. Good luck.

Don’t refinance to private loans in residency. That is stupid.
So I was thinking about switching to SAVE since that one is interest free but not sure how that will carry over once i’m out of residency. Is it interest free throughout the life of the loan? What’s the catch…
 
To directly answer the original question. Sign up for SAVE plan, this is the best financial approach.

You won’t owe more than 150$/month and they erase your interest so your loan will never go up. It is essentially equivalent to covid pause except you have to make a small payment.

This is true for every single resident assuming no spouse, additional income and filing separately. Post residency…. Good luck.

Don’t refinance to private loans in residency. That is stupid.

This is not correct. SAVE does not cover grad loans, only undergrad. So about 90% of your loans will still accumulate interest. In addition, it’s a 10% IDR, so repayment will never be higher than 10% of your disposable income and it’s a 25 year forgiveness. So not sure where “you won’t owe more than 150$/month” comes from. Maybe during residency, but when you are making more as an addending, it will definitely be at least 10x $150/month.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So I was thinking about switching to SAVE since that one is interest free but not sure how that will carry over once i’m out of residency. Is it interest free throughout the life of the loan? What’s the catch…
See above. It is not “interest free”. Once again, go to Student Loan Planner, do you research, and use their loan repayment calculator.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
See above. It is not “interest free”. Once again, go to Student Loan Planner, do you research, and use their loan repayment calculator.
Thank you for the resource! I’ll look more into the various payment options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Thank you for the resource! I’ll look more into the various payment options.
SAVE is great for undergrad loans, but not as great for people with a large amount of grad loans such as us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
SAVE is great for undergrad loans, but not as great for people with a large amount of grad loans such as us.
It's still beneficial though--my payment is going down substantially. SAVE also lowers what is considered "discretionary income" by a lot (from 150% over poverty line to 225%), even for grad loans. Biggest difference between the undergrad loans is they only have to pay 5% of their discretionary income, while we still pay 10%.

What am I missing?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is not correct. SAVE does not cover grad loans, only undergrad. So about 90% of your loans will still accumulate interest. In addition, it’s a 10% IDR, so repayment will never be higher than 10% of your disposable income and it’s a 25 year forgiveness. So not sure where “you won’t owe more than 150$/month” comes from. Maybe during residency, but when you are making more as an addending, it will definitely be at least 10x $150/month.
I don’t know if that’s true unless I’m missing something. The .gov websites all say undergrad and grad loans.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7830.jpeg
    IMG_7830.jpeg
    244.7 KB · Views: 61
Yeah, SAVE covers both...just treats grad loans a little differently is all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What are your thoughts on the new Biden plan waiving interest as long as you enroll into the SAVE plan and pay the monthly? Is there a catch I’m missing here?
The catch I believe is it applies only on undergraduate loans, and not graduate loans. Unless something has changed recently.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 user
Not sure why there’s disagreement about factual information anyone can lookup. There is no “catch” either. It includes almost all federal student loans including grad. You must file taxes separately if you’re married.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ya SAVE is for grad loans as well.
Just no interest accumulation. And less monthly payment. Anyone thinking about doing PAYE instead due to 20 year repayment vs the 25 year for SAVE?
 
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.

Because you’re not paying off 350k on a 100k salary. You’re not even paying off the interest without half your paycheck going to it to break even. If you’re making 200-300 plus that’s a different story. Unfortunately most new grads aren’t making that.

Also Dave Ramsey is a nerd
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
Good for you for paying it off yourself. I think your way of thinking is generally a good idea and is working for you, Podiatry and federal loans on an associates salary is probably the exception to the rule IMO. I think recent changes have made it much more likely most will actually end up getting their loans forgiven with lower payments along the way.

MDs can usually pay off their loans easily in an accelerated fashion or if not they can find jobs with loan assistance/forgiveness easily.

Podiatry associates ,generally speaking, need all the help they can get.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Ya exactly making even 200k is good and can pay off 200-300k loan aggressively. But associate pay, with cost of living, and loans is tough… I’m also a new associate so not sure how much I’ll even make but doubt it’ll be 200k
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
delaying it is the answer when you make no money
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
I think with the new plan, it’s not just about delaying paying your loans and waiting for forgiveness, but also using it to stop compounding interest on your loan.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 2 users
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
1000%
 
  • Care
Reactions: 1 user
… I’m also a new associate so not sure how much I’ll even make but doubt it’ll be 200k
Your base salary. You will make your base salary.

Maybe an extra 5k or 10k if you are highly productive... and the owner is feeling generous. :)
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
It's still beneficial though--my payment is going down substantially. SAVE also lowers what is considered "discretionary income" by a lot (from 150% over poverty line to 225%), even for grad loans. Biggest difference between the undergrad loans is they only have to pay 5% of their discretionary income, while we still pay 10%.

What am I missing?
If your loans are 90% grad loans, like most of us, the change in discretionary income percentage is negligible because it's a weighted average of undergrad/grad. So it'll make your payments around 9% of your discretionary income instead of 10%, but it'll change the forgiveness window to 25 years instead of 20 in PAYE. Obviously I don't know your financials, but when put side by side PAYE is still superior to SAVE for me in the long term in regards to total cost of payback.
Why not just pay it off as fast as you can? Why pay for 20-25 years and wait for the government to SAVE you? Never rely on the government on anything. You will be really disappointed when the government says no to erasing your debt as a small percentage actually got theirs erased. I follow Dave Ramsey and I'm almost done paying off all my debt. You should too. Delaying it is not the answer.
1) "Living like a resident" as an attending is trash advice. I'm not going to live like a pauper for a good chunk of 30's which are some of the prime years of my life. No one knows if they're gonna live into their 60's and beyond and I'm not going to sabotage QOL today based on that assumption.
2) Not all debt is bad. If stretching that debt out over 20-25 years will allow me to live a nice life now, buy a house, buy a cool car to reward myself for my hard work, and raise children then that's actually good debt. Especially when a lot of that interest will be forgiven anyway.

Also Dave Ramsey is a nerd.

And the only people I hear talking him up are poor people who want to be rich people. You never hear successful people talk about how great he is.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 2 users
You already wasted your 20s to become a podiatrist. Devoting half your paycheck to loans which will honestly take a decade to pay off paying 3-3.5k a month will ruin your 30s. Nah bro.

Knowing my luck I’ll get into a car crash the day those loans get paid off too.

(And FYI I do love the profession and my job - the ROI not so much)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 2 users
The good news is that high inflation has made all our loans effectively cheaper. The bad news is that reimbursements are stagnant or decreasing, so production income has essentially stagnated as well, making the good news moot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It'd be wonderful if they could either extend the interest-free period or switch to simple interest. The capitalized interest will hurt the longer the debt isn't reduced or paid off.

Supreme Court ruined that -$20k dream :(
 
If your loans are 90% grad loans, like most of us, the change in discretionary income percentage is negligible because it's a weighted average of undergrad/grad. So it'll make your payments around 9% of your discretionary income instead of 10%, but it'll change the forgiveness window to 25 years instead of 20 in PAYE. Obviously I don't know your financials, but when put side by side PAYE is still superior to SAVE for me in the long term in regards to total cost of payback.

1) "Living like a resident" as an attending is trash advice. I'm not going to live like a pauper for a good chunk of 30's which are some of the prime years of my life. No one knows if they're gonna live into their 60's and beyond and I'm not going to sabotage QOL today based on that assumption.
2) Not all debt is bad. If stretching that debt out over 20-25 years will allow me to live a nice life now, buy a house, buy a cool car to reward myself for my hard work, and raise children then that's actually good debt. Especially when a lot of that interest will be forgiven anyway.

Also Dave Ramsey is a nerd.

And the only people I hear talking him up are poor people who want to be rich people. You never hear successful people talk about how great he is.
Yeah, my loans are 100% grad, so my payments are still at 10%, but with SAVE, your discretionary income is waaay less....that's what I'm saying, and that's why my monthly payments are going down by a lot. I'm on PSLF too, so the 20-25 year thing doesn't matter to me.

I just checked my loan servicer website, and my payments starting in October are hundreds less than they were.
 
Last edited:
Grads try and get a job that will let you qualify for PSLF
Students try and get a residency that will qualify for PSLF (programs associated w/ safety net, 501c3, and county hospitals qualify)
Key word here is 'try', obviously not enough to go around but if you think ahead and target certain programs and then jobs it can be done. But people handle debt differently. Some it consumes, they can't stand it and want out of it ASAP. To those I would really do the above.
Others can take on more risk or can kick the can down the road (not always bad) and life is just fine.

I got lucky and found myself in one in residency and could count 2.5 years of that towards the 10 years needed.
If people were hell bent on becoming a pod this would be my advice to the students, as it will ease your debt burden and you can be done 6.5 years out of residency (and even better if the gov paused loan payments during some of the 6.5 years :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I have about 190K. I'm a first year resident, living at home with family through residency. At an average program. Residents done with numbers at the end of 2nd year. Average salary over the 3 years will be about 74k. I am also at a program where the 3 years would qualify towards PSFL.... With that said, I am aggressively paying off my loans. My goal is to have 80k left at the end of the 3 years and I will open up my own practice as soon as possible in a cheaper state. Probably after working as an associate for maximum 2 years to pay the rest off, and save for practice.

I went to podiatry school knowing exactly what I was getting myself into. I was a horrible college student, partied way too much, but had a good mind when it came to the sciences. I really had no other career options that I could see myself being happy in. I can't actually thank this forum enough because I used to read it all the time as a premed student trying to decide what I was going to do. It's because of this forum I knew exactly what I was getting into. I really enjoy what I do on the day to day in podiatry, but I would laugh at anyone debating this field if they had another option. Just too much sacrifice for the financial reward. I mean be reasonable. For me though, a person with no other option, it's been worth it. Likely because, I have never had a problem with being referred to as a podiatrist haha.

I want to be successful, and I know I can do it. I'm going to focus on becoming great in disciplines the common public expects a podiatrist to be excellent in. I'll build my referral network and so on and so forth, and I have other ideas for my practice also that I think are somewhat original. I don't care if the first year I make 50k, at least I'll give it a shot and 15-20 years down the line who knows maybe I won't have to work anymore or worst case I'll be with the rest of the 'Foot and ankle surgeons' in a regular associate job, with my debt paid off.

To me a hospital job is just too much headache for what you are paid, plain and simple. You are performing surgery on very sick people. MSG would probably be the most enjoyable out of all of em in my opinion, but I would never rely on it given the job market. Ortho group.... you have to know someone most likely to get it, and hopefully you like that someone, cause you'll be with them the rest of your career. I'm sure for every situation theres a right place right time, etc.

Don't get me wrong I really do enjoy surgery. I think its awesome, I mean to get to see the anatomy with your own eyes minimum 3-400 times in a residency program is a privilege. As stated above though, not worth the stress when considering the financials. It's also just risking more of your life...to pursue the fellowship and the additional training. You might even be prolonging your eventual retirement if all that training doesn't earn you more money... life is short... I already am getting gray hairs.

Also, podiatry school should only be 3 years long, the residency should only be 2 years for most programs considering where most graduates end up. My entire 4th year of podiatry school was spent not even at the school............................. Some of the residencies are just straight up criminal with their numbers. Like how about just be honest and say "hey come here, it's a chill program, and you'll save a year to become a practitioner and can do bunions and hammertoes." I'm sure some students are actually looking for that.

rant over :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Top